New Mob, Chief Zombie PigMan (As Described In This Thread) except he has a chance to drop gold tools (not raze tools)
[/thread]
Oh and the story of How The Pigment Got Their Gold Tools (Not Midas Tears)
There were once a village of pigmen, and with each village they had a chief, they had hearts of pure gold, and helped all creatures, they were like by all and hated by none..until, something happened, they got attacked, but we don't know why, all we know is what ever attacked them cursed their race so their souls went to the Nether
In The Nether, the ghasts attacked them, and so they transformed their hearts into weapons, weapons of pure gold
(Written in About 5 minutes)
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These guys make awesome art for Mods (Items, New Blocks and Mobs)
I will be using them soon
I'm Starting to be known as a Balancer, A.K.A. I'm starting to become pessimist
A troll should be found in caves on the overworld, not the Nether, but that's besides the point. Sweet Ideas, I would love to see this implemented in the game, I really would, but perhaps you should thinking of adding some stuff to the Overworld Should this motion go ahead.
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"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."
-Sun Tzu
A troll should be found in caves on the overworld, not the Nether, but that's besides the point. Sweet Ideas, I would love to see this implemented in the game, I really would, but perhaps you should thinking of adding some stuff to the Overworld Should this motion go ahead.
Modifications to the OW have no place in a Nether Update thread.
Not saying the OW shouldn't have stuff added to it, but it should not be a part of this thread.
@Nath
That's waaaay too lovey, fluffy as an explanation for their tools.
Mushraves is a ridiculous name for a mushroom in the Nether. You complained a lot about how little was going into the appearance of the Nether in Zurich's thread, but this isn't a good display that you know what you're talking about. While they are useful to the end of make easy dye recipes, the original purple-orange-green Nethershrooms were a much better match for the feeling of the Nether. The same complaint goes towards the Netherraze tools. Zurich's original designs were just plain cooler and more fitting.
I'm gonna attribute the name change to Grey, but personally I laughed because it oddly seemed to fit. The first natural colored light.
And as humans we usually only see colored light through stained glass or through colored Glowsticks at Rave parties.
I intentionally left the Mushraves pretty bare (outside of using the Light spectrum wheel) so they could be used as Torch dye, glass dye, or something else.
As for the Netherraze tools... There isn't really anything different about them...
They still have "Infernum" as the head of the tool, and "Grimwood sticks" as the handles. The only real difference is we actually explicitly stated what they were good and bad for.
I need to clarify: The appearance of The black/weird shaded orange tools seemed to fit the theme better the purple-orange ones. It also compliments the Blood tools better, with black and white tools. Other than the Aesthetics, everything is fine, but color design is important.
That was pretty much the same argument for the Mushraves (besides the name), that the 3 colors you chose don't seem to be good choices for the Fiery and dark Nether, especially when compared to each other. Green, Orange, and Purple seem more prominent, though there might be a better combination.
Quote from GreyAcumen »
Quote from Xenova_TS »
First of all, Mushrave is the PERFECT name for these things; it follows Existing Nether Naming convention (word that is descriptive of the block; mush from "mushroom", and word that refers to negative emotions or circumstances; rave as in "raving mad") and it alludes to the ability to use the mushraves to throw a RAVE PARTAAAAYYYY!
Second of all, I see nothing out of the Netheraze Tools that Zurick did any better, the only one that I might give him is the Bone Tools, and I'm considering using them for the Blood Gem tool basis, but keeping the red coloration for the heads of the tools.
Glowstone doesn't follow that convention (Unless you have nightmares about glowing, or being made of stone), and I'm very happy to have my soul, and if I want to be a true nitpicker, gravel ,fire, and lava don't either. Only Netherrack follows that convention, with it being in the nether, and rack, refering to the torture rack. Also, Mushraves doesn't make you think of "raving mad," especially with this colorscheme, it actually makes you think of RAVE PARTAAAAAAAAAYS, especially with the color scheme. I don't exactly know why this correlates with the Nether theme you're both working up.
Breaks all wooden blocks instantly, but gets no drops from wood planks. Log blocks and Workbench drop Charcoal, Chest drops 2 Charcoal. Gloomwood drops 3 Gloomshards.
So.. I guess it's an axe that doesn't take double damage from cutting down the
occasional Gloom Tree?
Those trees don't have that much health right?
So instead of wasting my ingots on an axe, I could just mine with my fist...
Hahahaha, that's adorable. He thinks he can mine Gloomwood with his fist.
So I can't? I like how you never mention anything about the durability of "Gloom" wood and
then you say that I can't break it with my fists.. please clarify.
Quote from sabata2 »
@Nath
That's waaaay too lovey, fluffy as an explanation for their tools.
And you have a better one?
Quote from Snerus »
A troll should be found in caves on the overworld, not the Nether, but that's besides the point.
Good, I'm not the only one who realized this.
Quote from Xenova_TS »
Glowstone doesn't follow that convention (Unless you have nightmares about glowing, or being made of stone), and I'm very happy to have my soul, and if I want to be a true nitpicker, gravel ,fire, and lava don't either. Only Netherrack follows that convention, with it being in the nether, and rack, refering to the torture rack. Also, Mushraves doesn't make you think of "raving mad," especially with this colorscheme, it actually makes you think of RAVE PARTAAAAAAAAAYS, especially with the color scheme. I don't exactly know why this correlates with the Nether theme you're both working up.
He's right, too.
Grey, please just call them "Nethershrooms."
Scarecrowman's idea for them was way better than.. this...
EDIT: @sabata2: I am not adorable, I am a cat. A dignified cat.
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Quote from Amariithynar »
Aesthetics. Give them to us.
Quote from GreyAcumen »
Quote from lxxwj »
I think Grey just hates putting new things into the game unless they can be completely and fully justified for at least 3 uses, not including looking cool.
@Nath
That's waaaay too lovey, fluffy as an explanation for their tools.
Well, In the first place, you need some sort of tool to begin with so the Midas Tears Logic Works
Unless the pigmen carried their tools from the grave to the Nether, and then they all found the midas tears (or something like that)
I'm using my logic, lol,
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These guys make awesome art for Mods (Items, New Blocks and Mobs)
I will be using them soon
I'm Starting to be known as a Balancer, A.K.A. I'm starting to become pessimist
I'd be willing to go to the secondary light level for the shroom's colors, but those are even WORSE for the feel of the Nether.
Yellow, Cyan, and Magenta.
I'm not going to cross light levels because then you lose out on higher level colors, or make it ridiculously hard to get the higher level colors.
For instance, Red, Magenta, and Green.
Nigh impossible to get Blue from that.
Also, I'll take another look at his image for the burning tools, and ours.
So.. I guess it's an axe that doesn't take double damage from cutting down the
occasional Gloom Tree?
Those trees don't have that much health right?
So instead of wasting my ingots on an axe, I could just mine with my fist...
Hahahaha, that's adorable. He thinks he can mine Gloomwood with his fist.
So I can't? I like how you never mention anything about the durability of "Gloom" wood and
then you say that I can't break it with my fists.. please clarify.
Quote from From OP »
Blood Diamond Axe -
Mines all Nether "wood" blocks instantly. Mines other blocks at same speed as Diamond.
Netherraze Axe -
Breaks all wooden blocks instantly, but gets no drops from wood planks. Gloomwood drops 3 Gloomshards.
Seeing as this thread of thought was because you didn't understand the point of the Netherraze Axe, I just decided to put it here for you.
Both Nether tools mine Gloom Wood instantly. The Raze tool has a better expanded use, but only returns shards, while the BDiamond tool will return the whole block to you.
Though you are right, it was forgotten to note that Gloomwood would be harvestable only by Axes, and even then only with Diamond or higher (Iron was contested). [I'll edit this in once Grey has his say again on if Iron should be used or not]
Still it's funny that you thought you could break something, that is essentially dry ice, and get something back.
We aren't playing by Overworld rules here. Your fists will do nothing but get you killed here.
Quote from lxxwj »
Quote from sabata2 »
@Nath
That's waaaay too lovey, fluffy as an explanation for their tools.
And you have a better one?
Quote from Nath99 »
Well, In the first place, you need some sort of tool to begin with so the Midas Tears Logic Works
Unless the pigmen carried their tools from the grave to the Nether, and then they all found the midas tears (or something like that)
I'm using my logic, lol,
In the Forward I state the Nether used to be inhabited by the Pigmen, now only their zobified corpses remain.
The only reason Midas Tears wouldn't work is if you assume the Pigmen never made tools to begin with.
ok, we all have theories and what not, but I'm pretty sure Notch is the only one that really knows what happens, so let's leave it at that
Anyways Another One Of My Theories
Creeper = Failed Pig man Experiment Lead By Notch
Zombie Pig Man = The Creepers True Form After Life
Effing deep man.
They know the abomination they've become in the Overworld and must sacrifice themselves to return to their rightful place in Hell, where they live peacefully unless provoked.
I had a good look through your proposal and while everything's very well thought (and laid) out, I really feel you've gone a little too far (or completely the wrong direction) in some places.
The Blight -
I believe this concept is over-complicating things. Think of the 'moving parts' involved in implementing this idea; more 'moving parts' means more development, more bugs and more possible exploits.
The atmosphere of the Nether can more simply be determined by its native blocks alone. Keep it simple. Existing functionality allows for behaviour of block types, so stick with that. I don't see any problem with bringing in your own Earth blocks and making your own personal 'Earth' in the Nether world; likewise with taking Nether blocks back to Earth and having your own Nether garden. Minecraft is as much about building whatever the hell you want, as it is about struggling to survive in the process.
Nether-specific Tools -
Rather than incur a durability loss with using Earth tools on the Nether world (or whichever), just being able to craft tools out of Nether materials is more than good enough. They can differ from Earth tools in damage and durability, but in this case, being able to survive solely in the Nether without having to leave is the main point (that and the aesthetics; I'm already sick of seeing everyone in iron and diamond. I'll also mention I much prefer the look of the items presented in the previous Nether Update thread).
Demon Bones -
I have a simpler idea that might fit in with what you're trying to achieve with the creation of demon bones. Simply convert skeleton bones into demon bones using the 'freezer'. Likewise one should be able to convert demon bones into skeleton bones using a furnace.
Updated Blocks -
The current blocks and their functions need no modification. As indicated previously, excessive 'moving parts' can cause bugs and other issues. Keep it simple.
Freezer -
Nice idea, it certainly opens up some really interesting options.
Mobs -
Love the mobs; you can never have too many different kinds of mobs.
Netherraze -
Love it and the ingots, although the adjusted smelting rate probably isn't all that necessary. Either way it will still function well, so its probably best to keep the code to a minimum and leave the smelting rate alone.
Midas Tears -
The design here is a little broken; it flows further than water, destroys blocks in its path, but wont flow over edges... ok, potentially buggy and there are definately some exploits there, but I can also see it potentially working if it just used the existing flow code. What doesn't quite fit is how the flow can be ignited and burnt away, but the source can't... this would cause a never-ending river of fire, as the source would constantly be ejecting a flow, but the flow would be constantly burnt away. You could try to code your way around the issue, but the same thing was said about permanently burning forrest fires. Remove that aspect and it could work.
It turns minecarts into helmets?! o_0 It would make MUCH more sense to add a gold minecart into the game for this purpose; if anything. The conversion to gold could probably be limited to iron and diamond items only though; if gold isn't found in the Nether, then materials native to the Nether shouldn't change into gold.
Gloomwood -
Great idea, although it's probably not necessary to destroy the gloomwood block if a lava block is placed next to it (and turned into obsidian).
Deadbrush -
Great idea, especially for protecting areas against fire; although it doesn't make sense for it to be able to be ignited and burned away. o_0 How about a single 'click' to remove?
Blood Gem Tools and Netherraze Tools -
Can't argue with these, they look great and anything to distract from the grey/blue norm is such a relief!
Eruptions -
Although they sound complicated and troublesome to implement, I couldn't argue with a working result. It's a great idea, but would need to be approached carefully.
The 'Community' Approach -
You've mentioned many of these ideas were taken from other sources. That's great, but don't neglect the other Nether Update thread (http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=146410). I don't see why you couldn't take items, ores, shrooms and the likes from their ideas and use them here. Aesthetically they looked great and I love just looking at them.
While I generally like the concepts presented here, I really do think the mechanics need to be more simplified. In addition, rather than force an ideal Nether world on the players, give them the chance to make the Nether their own; which means involving little or no 'corruption' to Earth blocks. Minecraft is about crafting, after all.
@ Disordah
I'll address things in a similar fashion. A little tired now so excuse informalities.
The Blight is an integral part of distinguishing the Nether from the Overworld.
The Durability plus inability to grow things set it vastly apart from the Overworld.
And it would be incredibly hard to do but you COULD build your own "earth" in the Nether.
The main reason for Corruption is so that you can't build indestructible fortresses in the Nether. A Cobblestone hut protects you from ANYTHING, currently. That should not be an option in the Nether.
There's 3 ways to survive in the Overworld.
1) Build shelter
2) Fight
3) Use the terrain to your advantage
The proposed Aether, greatly focuses on #3.
This Nether greatly focuses on #2.
To that extent, the other two are still available, but highly inadvisable or difficult, just as fighting is the most ill-advised choice in the Overworld.
Both Grey and I are very much against "Just another Tier" of tools. As such these ones needed something to stand out. BDiamond has a sacrificial special, and Netherraze has autosmelting. But if we give them Diamond or better durability, they're again "another tier". And if we start a path of "Diamond has best durability, these are now stronger but less uses" we'll have placed a cap on how far and strong weapons and tools could go.
So instead of having everything depend on the tool, we have it depend on the environment.
This way, in the Nether there's a clear choice as to what's better and what's worse.
But in the Overworld, Diamond is more often than not better outside of the Nether tool's specific abilities.
This means the Nether tools are no longer "another tier" but now "a tier of their own", which is exactly what they should be.
Plus, to do this it's a minor code change to Durability loss :tongue.gif: It's not as hard as you think. Getting it working as specifically as we said? Maybe. But on a broad sense "Nether no good in OW, OW no good in Nether" is incredibly easy.
Interesting idea to use the Freezer to "craft" Demon bones, but the problem with smelting/freezing the Demon Bones is that you are FORCED to implement a 1 to 1 relation for something that basically is better in every way (by current definition)
And that's the BEST ratio you can get for balance. Otherwise it tilts in the favor of making the better item too easy to get.
Crafting on the other hand can create a near perfect cost ratio.
The updated blocks would expand a fair amount of what the Nether is capable of, and, outside of a few certain situations, hardly changes any code.
Netherraze has an increased smelt speed so as to set it apart from "just an intermediary between Coal and Lava".
Midas tears' burnability is actually a component taken from Netherslick from the Point of the Nether thread. It allows it to be far more deadly and even part of a trap.
And the flow itself is replaced with a fire block, so the tears would have to reflow into that area, but before that would happen, the surrounding flow would have ignited already.
IT would more PULSE flame than be an infinite river of fire. (And that's only assuming it flows right up to some lava that will ignite it)
It doesn't and CAN'T flow over edges because then it would eat away entire moutainsides if placed at the top.
As for carts to helms... my guess is that their recipe is incredibly similar. And we don't want to introduce entirely pointless items (ala, a gold minecart).
I don't see why you couldn't take items, ores, shrooms and the likes from their ideas and use them here.
It's because THAT thread's point is to turn the Nether into another Overworld. There's a lot more that I took from that thread than you'd think. But I am hell bent on NOT HAVING ORES in the Nether. Plus all the ores (sans his Infernum, which I've adopted) were completely ridiculous and usually pointless. And it's suggestions like that that make me absolutely despise the thought of minable ores in the Nether. "Just have it to have it", Yeah now you just have something that could be placed in to overworld instead of another realm. There would be nearly no difference besides spawns.
I'd be willing to go to the secondary light level for the shroom's colors, but those are even WORSE for the feel of the Nether.
Yellow, Cyan, and Magenta.
I'm not going to cross light levels because then you lose out on higher level colors, or make it ridiculously hard to get the higher level colors.
For instance, Red, Magenta, and Green.
Nigh impossible to get Blue from that.
Also, I'll take another look at his image for the burning tools, and ours.
Why must it be secondary/primary computer colors? It actually makes less sense, since in real life yellow replaces green as a primary color.
Maybe you're over-complicating it while inside the box. Take the simple method that deviates from the box. Maybe if you mix a dye with shroom-goo, then you get glowing dye of that color. You don't need to mix only glowing-colors to get glowing dyes.
This actually belongs to me at one point. I can give you a proof if you don't believe me.
My Proof trumps your proof by about.... 5 days, sorry.
I essentially hacked off part of the functionality of my diamond compass and replaced my obsidian compass's original functionality. I'm in the middle of updating that thread to shift the functionality of the Obsidian compass to a new method, and then the obsidian compass will reflect this thread's obsidian compass, and the diamond one will have the original functionality of the diamond compass, minus the portal pointer stuff. I'll probably switch it back to pointing to the place the player last died by default (spinning randomly if player hasn't died)
Quote from sabata2 »
Just I've seen TONS of Nether Compass suggestions on these forums and I wouldn't know where to begin for fact checking.
If there is another "Nether Compass" suggestion that uses the same concept, I don't care. I'm not trolling through the forums manually looking for it when I've likely never seen it before, and thus didn't draw on it as the inspiration for the idea.
Quote from Arks172 »
I'd love new realm. there is also aether mod your idea and this mod would be great together
That's the idea.
Also, why don't you apply to work for mojang?
Because Mojang is a swedish company. I'm in america. I'm also just an idea guy at this point. My programming skills are rusty. I dunno about Yofreke, but I believe he already has a job in the game industry.
Quote from REGIFISHY »
However, after actually reading the OP, I now see that it's basically a highly improved version of the previous thread.
I hereby support this one more.
Awesome. I'll look into getting some sort of Banner together that people can use. I'm thinking something like a screenshot of the larger 5x6(3x4 inside) portal with an erupting volcano behind it, and the player sitting in a minecart that is in lava in front of it.
Quote from lxxwj »
Anyway, the raze tools do diamond damage, have iron durability, etc. but
I would rather just use a diamond axe than a raze one. Why would you bother wasting
precious raze ingots on something that's good for nothing?
Breaks all wooden blocks instantly, but gets no drops from wood planks. Log blocks and Workbench drop Charcoal, Chest drops 2 Charcoal. Gloomwood drops 3 Gloomshards.
So.. I guess it's an axe that doesn't take double damage from cutting down the
occasional Gloom Tree?
Those trees don't have that much health right?
So instead of wasting my ingots on an axe, I could just mine with my fist...
A) You can mine regular trees with your fists (unless you are using my extended 2x2 crafting mod, in which case you'd need an axe or hatchet) but Gloomwood requires Iron or better :cool.gif: Netherraze Tools give you presmelted blocks, Netherraze can smelt 16 blocks at double speed. 3 netherraze = 48 blocks smelted. Even on the overworld, Netherraze Tool will last for 251 blocks and have a chance to set enemies on fire when used as a weapon.
And just a question;
Gloomshards provide the same amount of "shade" as a Gloomwood log, but can only be planted in Tilled Soul Sand and can be activated and deactivated via Buttons, Levers, Pressure Plates and Redstone. Gloomshards are required to craft Netherraze tools. Gloomshards can be crafted in place of torches with Pumpkins to create Gloom Lanterns (which are of course immune to being broken by darkness from other Gloomwood) Gloomshards can grow into a Gloomwood tree only if Bonemeal is used on the planted Gloomshard.
What's the point of putting it in tilled soul sand? It makes darkness, but what's the point of that?
Maybe you could have an increased number of mobs spawn in the "darkness shroud" thingy,
more than in regular darkness, so you can make mob factories or mob-based player traps more easily.
I guess the idea you had about "planting" gloom shards was for one to use bonemeal to create
some kind of gloom tree farm, to make raze tools with. I guess that's viable.
Why don't you read back over the description for the Gloomshards. Gloomwood blocks always generate shadow AND COLD. Gloomshards also generate shadows and cold, but can be turned off and on via redstone but can only be placed on Tilled Soul Sand.
I have to admit I really like your lava eruption idea, and the combustion element.
And the Fright bulbs.
But the gluttons are just a little bit ridiculous. =/
You wont say that when they take a bite out of you and you find you're missing the pork you were planning to heal yourself back up with.
And the Grems, I mean, they eat fire, but you should color them red :biggrin.gif:
That's all for now..
No. I've no interest in starting down a slippery slope in which every single Nether mob is repainted red. Eating fire does not make your fur turn red.
It's probably because it's closer to the Overworld that you enjoy Zurich's thread a bit more. It's what you know and love about the Overworld, but expanded into the Nether... WITH GLOWWY MUSHROOMS!
This thread is trying desperately NOT to do that, so that the Nether is a realm of it's own instead of an "expansion pack".
Personally, I think it's because the previous nether update suggestion imploded on itself before it could introduce anything that concretely made anything difficult at all. The only thing that it did was introduce new material for people to get, and with very little concrete details, so readers were left to insert their own interpretations as to how awesome all of these new tools and materials would SURELY be.
Quote from Hwd45 »
Nice ideas, but no. I much prefer the other thread. Two suggestion I would make are to change the look of glowsand and to possibly change the Mushrave colours (and I prefer the name nethershroom).
We already have Netherraze, Netherrack, Netherwurm. I draw the line there. I've already explained why Mushrave is a FAR better name on multiple different levels.
Quote from Hwd45 »
I suppose coloured gel would be alright... But I think I just prefer the ideas spread around by the other topic, especially the various ores available. Sorry!
LOL. None of them do anything, except for that goofy infinitium crap that was supposed to never break.
Quote from Nath99 »
My Nether Update
New Mob, Chief Zombie PigMan (As Described In This Thread) except he has a chance to drop gold tools (not raze tools)
[/thread]
Oh and the story of How The Pigment Got Their Gold Tools (Not Midas Tears)
There were once a village of pigmen, and with each village they had a chief, they had hearts of pure gold, and helped all creatures, they were like by all and hated by none..until, something happened, they got attacked, but we don't know why, all we know is what ever attacked them cursed their race so their souls went to the Nether
In The Nether, the ghasts attacked them, and so they transformed their hearts into weapons, weapons of pure gold
(Written in About 5 minutes)
That's adorable. If this were the Aether, I would totally support that idea. Except this is the Nether, and Zombie Pigmen are not Care Bears.
Quote from Xenova_TS »
I need to clarify: The appearance of The black/weird shaded orange tools seemed to fit the theme better the purple-orange ones. It also compliments the Blood tools better, with black and white tools. Other than the Aesthetics, everything is fine, but color design is important.
I can understand your issue with Netherraze, and I have been considering darkening the purple down, but the orange will stay. I think it does a pretty decent job evoking the hue of lava.
That was pretty much the same argument for the Mushraves (besides the name), that the 3 colors you chose don't seem to be good choices for the Fiery and dark Nether, especially when compared to each other. Green, Orange, and Purple seem more prominent, though there might be a better combination.
Glowstone doesn't follow that convention (Unless you have nightmares about glowing, or being made of stone), and I'm very happy to have my soul,
Would you be happy to have tat soul trapped in sand?
and if I want to be a true nitpicker, gravel ,fire, and lava don't either. Only Netherrack follows that convention, with it being in the nether, and rack, refering to the torture rack. Also, Mushraves doesn't make you think of "raving mad," especially with this colorscheme, it actually makes you think of RAVE PARTAAAAAAAAAYS, especially with the color scheme. I don't exactly know why this correlates with the Nether theme you're both working up.
Look. You're saying "purple, orange and green only!" Green already is in the RGB spectrum, The Nether already has a red hue, so having blue light is going to look purple, and a red light is easily as creepy an "hellish" as orange.
Maybe I'll change the name to Mushrants :tongue.gif:
Quote from lxxwj »
So I can't? I like how you never mention anything about the durability of "Gloom" wood and
then you say that I can't break it with my fists.. please clarify.
How about the first sentence in the description for Gloomwood;
A Nether Tree which has "leaves" of shadow and requires an Iron Axe or better to mine blocks from.
Sure, you can use Iron or diamond, but those take double durability in the Nether.
Quote from sabata2 »
@Nath
That's waaaay too lovey, fluffy as an explanation for their tools.
And you have a better one?
Yes:
Pigmen were originally a proud race that acted as lords of the Nether and had built entire kingdoms. At their peak, every Pigman carried tools of Netherraze, BloodGems, and perhaps even Obsidian and Netherrack or SoulGlass tools that used crafting recipes that have since been lost to time. These tools, combined with the PIgmen's numbers, were the strength that allowed them to lord over even the most dangerous beasts of the Nether.
However Pigmen had a weakness; their pride... and their greed.
When Midas Tears were discovered, the Pigmen found themselves unconsciously and irresistibly fond of the color and luster it brought to their tools and items. Soon the pigmen sacrificed every tool they had, each individual pigman was certain that his tool wouldn't make that big of a difference to the might of their race.
But soon nearly every tool the Pigmen race had built was now useless gold, unable to be used even to mine new Netherraze and Gloomwood, and too weak to kill more enemies for the bones and bloodgems. Their civilization fell to ruins, and with its fall the wills of the Pigmen were crushed completely. Without their confidence and determination, the pigmen race was eventually warped over time to the Zombie Pigmen that exist now. They still covet their gold tools, but some rare Zombie Pigman will stumble across a relic of Netherraze or Blood Gem and use it to lord over his small clan and act as chieftain.
Quote from Snerus »
A troll should be found in caves on the overworld, not the Nether, but that's besides the point.
Good, I'm not the only one who realized this.
Explain the logic to Trolls NOT existing in the Nether? Basically just that you want them in the Overworld?
He's right, too.
Grey, please just call them "Nethershrooms."
No.
Quote from sabata2 »
Though you are right, it was forgotten to note that Gloomwood would be harvestable only by Axes, and even then only with Diamond or higher (Iron was contested). [I'll edit this in once Grey has his say again on if Iron should be used or not]
I'm fine with Iron.
Quote from Disordah »
I had a good look through your proposal and while everything's very well thought (and laid) out, I really feel you've gone a little too far (or completely the wrong direction) in some places.
The Blight -
I believe this concept is over-complicating things. Think of the 'moving parts' involved in implementing this idea; more 'moving parts' means more development, more bugs and more possible exploits.
The atmosphere of the Nether can more simply be determined by its native blocks alone. Keep it simple. Existing functionality allows for behaviour of block types, so stick with that. I don't see any problem with bringing in your own Earth blocks and making your own personal 'Earth' in the Nether world; likewise with taking Nether blocks back to Earth and having your own Nether garden. Minecraft is as much about building whatever the hell you want, as it is about struggling to survive in the process.
You're apparently missing some points. There's nothing complicated about Corruption of blocks. Grass already corrupts adjacent Dirt blocks in the Overworld. The same thing would happen with Netherrack next to cobblestone and smoothstone. This doesn't prohibit anyone from building with nether materials in the overworld, or vica versa, just don't let those materials touch.
There's also no issue with having plants break under specific conditions. Saplings will already uproot themselves if light levels drop too low in the Overworld while not outside. This would just make that so Just about ALL plants would act this way when in the Nether.
Nether-specific Tools -
Rather than incur a durability loss with using Earth tools on the Nether world (or whichever), just being able to craft tools out of Nether materials is more than good enough. They can differ from Earth tools in damage and durability, but in this case, being able to survive solely in the Nether without having to leave is the main point (that and the aesthetics; I'm already sick of seeing everyone in iron and diamond. I'll also mention I much prefer the look of the items presented in the previous Nether Update thread).
I'm not interested in creating new tiers that make the old ones superfluous. Having Nether specific tools keeps them from being overpowered while still giving them interesting and useful abilities.
Demon Bones -
I have a simpler idea that might fit in with what you're trying to achieve with the creation of demon bones. Simply convert skeleton bones into demon bones using the 'freezer'. Likewise one should be able to convert demon bones into skeleton bones using a furnace.
So all I need to make a demon bone is a regular bone, 8 cobblestone and some gloomwood? Do you really think that's any pricier?
Updated Blocks -
The current blocks and their functions need no modification. As indicated previously, excessive 'moving parts' can cause bugs and other issues. Keep it simple.
I'm thinking maybe your problem is that it SOUNDS complicated, since many of the descriptions go very in depth about what the rules and conditions are for effects to happen.
Midas Tears -
The design here is a little broken; it flows further than water, destroys blocks in its path, but wont flow over edges... ok, potentially buggy and there are definately some exploits there, but I can also see it potentially working if it just used the existing flow code. What doesn't quite fit is how the flow can be ignited and burnt away, but the source can't... this would cause a never-ending river of fire, as the source would constantly be ejecting a flow, but the flow would be constantly burnt away. You could try to code your way around the issue, but the same thing was said about permanently burning forrest fires. Remove that aspect and it could work.
I'll be honest, Sabata was pushing for the fire properties from Netherslick. I was never really behind it too much. However, if it works the same way as Netherrack, where having the fire spread in towards the source then also puts OUT the flames that had been burning, then it should work out fine.
It turns minecarts into helmets?! o_0 It would make MUCH more sense to add a gold minecart into the game for this purpose; if anything. The conversion to gold could probably be limited to iron and diamond items only though; if gold isn't found in the Nether, then materials native to the Nether shouldn't change into gold.
An iron helmet uses the same number of ingots in the same shape, but merely upside down. I don't see what possible point a gold minecart would serve, so it's far easier just to leave it out and have the gold helmet instead.
Gloomwood -
Great idea, although it's probably not necessary to destroy the gloomwood block if a lava block is placed next to it (and turned into obsidian).
Yes it is. It takes quite a bit of gloomwood to freeze a single block in the furnace. One of the front most recipes is to be able to freeze lava into obsidian. If Gloomwood can be used directly on lava by placing it for infinite uses, then it would be way overpowered compared to the Furnace method.
Deadbrush -
Great idea, especially for protecting areas against fire; although it doesn't make sense for it to be able to be ignited and burned away. o_0 How about a single 'click' to remove?
I think the description was supposed to mean that after it has absorbed flammable liquids it can then be ignited or something. Not certain on this one.
The 'Community' Approach -
You've mentioned many of these ideas were taken from other sources. That's great, but don't neglect the other Nether Update thread (http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=146410). I don't see why you couldn't take items, ores, shrooms and the likes from their ideas and use them here. Aesthetically they looked great and I love just looking at them.
The existing Ores in this thread ARE based on the ones from the old Nether thread, as are the Mushraves based on Nethershrooms, however they were updated for balance and to have a proper theme instead of just arbitrary stuff.
While I generally like the concepts presented here, I really do think the mechanics need to be more simplified. In addition, rather than force an ideal Nether world on the players, give them the chance to make the Nether their own; which means involving little or no 'corruption' to Earth blocks. Minecraft is about crafting, after all.
Corruption stays. Like I explained, it's no worse than grass "corrupting" dirt. Don't place those particular blocks immediately next to each other, and there's no problem. If you absolutely HAVE to build them next to each other, then just build a portal underneath where they connect or something to stave off the corruption.
Quote from Xenova_TS »
Why must it be secondary/primary computer colors? It actually makes less sense, since in real life yellow replaces green as a primary color.
GreyAcumen, can you please not quote every reply you see in a thread? Not to be mean or anything but most of the things others said could be passed by and you can reply to others with constructive criticism. Scrolling by giant amounts of quoted text that don't really generate discussion can get annoying if it's just people dropping by going "this wood be so kuul omg" or "this is what i like instead".
If the Nether were to change, I would like it to seem familiar and be without things like new ores and such. Maybe a few new blocks... Mobs are a maybe...
New Mob, Chief Zombie PigMan (As Described In This Thread) except he has a chance to drop gold tools (not raze tools)
[/thread]
Oh and the story of How The Pigment Got Their Gold Tools (Not Midas Tears)
There were once a village of pigmen, and with each village they had a chief, they had hearts of pure gold, and helped all creatures, they were like by all and hated by none..until, something happened, they got attacked, but we don't know why, all we know is what ever attacked them cursed their race so their souls went to the Nether
In The Nether, the ghasts attacked them, and so they transformed their hearts into weapons, weapons of pure gold
(Written in About 5 minutes)
I will be using them soon
I'm Starting to be known as a Balancer, A.K.A. I'm starting to become pessimist
-Sun Tzu
Modifications to the OW have no place in a Nether Update thread.
Not saying the OW shouldn't have stuff added to it, but it should not be a part of this thread.
@Nath
That's waaaay too lovey, fluffy as an explanation for their tools.
I need to clarify: The appearance of The black/weird shaded orange tools seemed to fit the theme better the purple-orange ones. It also compliments the Blood tools better, with black and white tools. Other than the Aesthetics, everything is fine, but color design is important.
That was pretty much the same argument for the Mushraves (besides the name), that the 3 colors you chose don't seem to be good choices for the Fiery and dark Nether, especially when compared to each other. Green, Orange, and Purple seem more prominent, though there might be a better combination.
Glowstone doesn't follow that convention (Unless you have nightmares about glowing, or being made of stone), and I'm very happy to have my soul, and if I want to be a true nitpicker, gravel ,fire, and lava don't either. Only Netherrack follows that convention, with it being in the nether, and rack, refering to the torture rack. Also, Mushraves doesn't make you think of "raving mad," especially with this colorscheme, it actually makes you think of RAVE PARTAAAAAAAAAYS, especially with the color scheme. I don't exactly know why this correlates with the Nether theme you're both working up.
So I can't? I like how you never mention anything about the durability of "Gloom" wood and
then you say that I can't break it with my fists.. please clarify.
And you have a better one?
Good, I'm not the only one who realized this.
He's right, too.
Grey, please just call them "Nethershrooms."
Scarecrowman's idea for them was way better than.. this...
EDIT: @sabata2: I am not adorable, I am a cat. A dignified cat.
Well, In the first place, you need some sort of tool to begin with so the Midas Tears Logic Works
Unless the pigmen carried their tools from the grave to the Nether, and then they all found the midas tears (or something like that)
I'm using my logic, lol,
I will be using them soon
I'm Starting to be known as a Balancer, A.K.A. I'm starting to become pessimist
Yellow, Cyan, and Magenta.
I'm not going to cross light levels because then you lose out on higher level colors, or make it ridiculously hard to get the higher level colors.
For instance, Red, Magenta, and Green.
Nigh impossible to get Blue from that.
Also, I'll take another look at his image for the burning tools, and ours.
Seeing as this thread of thought was because you didn't understand the point of the Netherraze Axe, I just decided to put it here for you.
Both Nether tools mine Gloom Wood instantly. The Raze tool has a better expanded use, but only returns shards, while the BDiamond tool will return the whole block to you.
Though you are right, it was forgotten to note that Gloomwood would be harvestable only by Axes, and even then only with Diamond or higher (Iron was contested). [I'll edit this in once Grey has his say again on if Iron should be used or not]
Still it's funny that you thought you could break something, that is essentially dry ice, and get something back.
We aren't playing by Overworld rules here. Your fists will do nothing but get you killed here.
In the Forward I state the Nether used to be inhabited by the Pigmen, now only their zobified corpses remain.
The only reason Midas Tears wouldn't work is if you assume the Pigmen never made tools to begin with.
Anyways Another One Of My Theories
Creeper = Failed Pig man Experiment Lead By Notch
Zombie Pig Man = The Creepers True Form After Life
I will be using them soon
I'm Starting to be known as a Balancer, A.K.A. I'm starting to become pessimist
Effing deep man.
They know the abomination they've become in the Overworld and must sacrifice themselves to return to their rightful place in Hell, where they live peacefully unless provoked.
The Blight -
I believe this concept is over-complicating things. Think of the 'moving parts' involved in implementing this idea; more 'moving parts' means more development, more bugs and more possible exploits.
The atmosphere of the Nether can more simply be determined by its native blocks alone. Keep it simple. Existing functionality allows for behaviour of block types, so stick with that. I don't see any problem with bringing in your own Earth blocks and making your own personal 'Earth' in the Nether world; likewise with taking Nether blocks back to Earth and having your own Nether garden. Minecraft is as much about building whatever the hell you want, as it is about struggling to survive in the process.
Nether-specific Tools -
Rather than incur a durability loss with using Earth tools on the Nether world (or whichever), just being able to craft tools out of Nether materials is more than good enough. They can differ from Earth tools in damage and durability, but in this case, being able to survive solely in the Nether without having to leave is the main point (that and the aesthetics; I'm already sick of seeing everyone in iron and diamond. I'll also mention I much prefer the look of the items presented in the previous Nether Update thread).
Demon Bones -
I have a simpler idea that might fit in with what you're trying to achieve with the creation of demon bones. Simply convert skeleton bones into demon bones using the 'freezer'. Likewise one should be able to convert demon bones into skeleton bones using a furnace.
Updated Blocks -
The current blocks and their functions need no modification. As indicated previously, excessive 'moving parts' can cause bugs and other issues. Keep it simple.
Freezer -
Nice idea, it certainly opens up some really interesting options.
Mobs -
Love the mobs; you can never have too many different kinds of mobs.
Netherraze -
Love it and the ingots, although the adjusted smelting rate probably isn't all that necessary. Either way it will still function well, so its probably best to keep the code to a minimum and leave the smelting rate alone.
Midas Tears -
The design here is a little broken; it flows further than water, destroys blocks in its path, but wont flow over edges... ok, potentially buggy and there are definately some exploits there, but I can also see it potentially working if it just used the existing flow code. What doesn't quite fit is how the flow can be ignited and burnt away, but the source can't... this would cause a never-ending river of fire, as the source would constantly be ejecting a flow, but the flow would be constantly burnt away. You could try to code your way around the issue, but the same thing was said about permanently burning forrest fires. Remove that aspect and it could work.
It turns minecarts into helmets?! o_0 It would make MUCH more sense to add a gold minecart into the game for this purpose; if anything. The conversion to gold could probably be limited to iron and diamond items only though; if gold isn't found in the Nether, then materials native to the Nether shouldn't change into gold.
Gloomwood -
Great idea, although it's probably not necessary to destroy the gloomwood block if a lava block is placed next to it (and turned into obsidian).
Deadbrush -
Great idea, especially for protecting areas against fire; although it doesn't make sense for it to be able to be ignited and burned away. o_0 How about a single 'click' to remove?
Blood Gem Tools and Netherraze Tools -
Can't argue with these, they look great and anything to distract from the grey/blue norm is such a relief!
Eruptions -
Although they sound complicated and troublesome to implement, I couldn't argue with a working result. It's a great idea, but would need to be approached carefully.
The 'Community' Approach -
You've mentioned many of these ideas were taken from other sources. That's great, but don't neglect the other Nether Update thread (http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=146410). I don't see why you couldn't take items, ores, shrooms and the likes from their ideas and use them here. Aesthetically they looked great and I love just looking at them.
While I generally like the concepts presented here, I really do think the mechanics need to be more simplified. In addition, rather than force an ideal Nether world on the players, give them the chance to make the Nether their own; which means involving little or no 'corruption' to Earth blocks. Minecraft is about crafting, after all.
That's amazing. The reason they explode is not to kill you, but to signal you, showing their release into the after life.
Edit: 666th post, I earned the mark of the beast.
Sig made by llama66613
Follow me on twitter
666th post, mark of the beast.
I'll address things in a similar fashion. A little tired now so excuse informalities.
The Blight is an integral part of distinguishing the Nether from the Overworld.
The Durability plus inability to grow things set it vastly apart from the Overworld.
And it would be incredibly hard to do but you COULD build your own "earth" in the Nether.
The main reason for Corruption is so that you can't build indestructible fortresses in the Nether. A Cobblestone hut protects you from ANYTHING, currently. That should not be an option in the Nether.
There's 3 ways to survive in the Overworld.
1) Build shelter
2) Fight
3) Use the terrain to your advantage
The proposed Aether, greatly focuses on #3.
This Nether greatly focuses on #2.
To that extent, the other two are still available, but highly inadvisable or difficult, just as fighting is the most ill-advised choice in the Overworld.
Both Grey and I are very much against "Just another Tier" of tools. As such these ones needed something to stand out. BDiamond has a sacrificial special, and Netherraze has autosmelting. But if we give them Diamond or better durability, they're again "another tier". And if we start a path of "Diamond has best durability, these are now stronger but less uses" we'll have placed a cap on how far and strong weapons and tools could go.
So instead of having everything depend on the tool, we have it depend on the environment.
This way, in the Nether there's a clear choice as to what's better and what's worse.
But in the Overworld, Diamond is more often than not better outside of the Nether tool's specific abilities.
This means the Nether tools are no longer "another tier" but now "a tier of their own", which is exactly what they should be.
Plus, to do this it's a minor code change to Durability loss :tongue.gif: It's not as hard as you think. Getting it working as specifically as we said? Maybe. But on a broad sense "Nether no good in OW, OW no good in Nether" is incredibly easy.
Interesting idea to use the Freezer to "craft" Demon bones, but the problem with smelting/freezing the Demon Bones is that you are FORCED to implement a 1 to 1 relation for something that basically is better in every way (by current definition)
And that's the BEST ratio you can get for balance. Otherwise it tilts in the favor of making the better item too easy to get.
Crafting on the other hand can create a near perfect cost ratio.
The updated blocks would expand a fair amount of what the Nether is capable of, and, outside of a few certain situations, hardly changes any code.
Netherraze has an increased smelt speed so as to set it apart from "just an intermediary between Coal and Lava".
Midas tears' burnability is actually a component taken from Netherslick from the Point of the Nether thread. It allows it to be far more deadly and even part of a trap.
And the flow itself is replaced with a fire block, so the tears would have to reflow into that area, but before that would happen, the surrounding flow would have ignited already.
IT would more PULSE flame than be an infinite river of fire. (And that's only assuming it flows right up to some lava that will ignite it)
It doesn't and CAN'T flow over edges because then it would eat away entire moutainsides if placed at the top.
As for carts to helms... my guess is that their recipe is incredibly similar. And we don't want to introduce entirely pointless items (ala, a gold minecart).
It's because THAT thread's point is to turn the Nether into another Overworld. There's a lot more that I took from that thread than you'd think. But I am hell bent on NOT HAVING ORES in the Nether. Plus all the ores (sans his Infernum, which I've adopted) were completely ridiculous and usually pointless. And it's suggestions like that that make me absolutely despise the thought of minable ores in the Nether. "Just have it to have it", Yeah now you just have something that could be placed in to overworld instead of another realm. There would be nearly no difference besides spawns.
Why must it be secondary/primary computer colors? It actually makes less sense, since in real life yellow replaces green as a primary color.
Maybe you're over-complicating it while inside the box. Take the simple method that deviates from the box. Maybe if you mix a dye with shroom-goo, then you get glowing dye of that color. You don't need to mix only glowing-colors to get glowing dyes.
My Proof trumps your proof by about.... 5 days, sorry.
I essentially hacked off part of the functionality of my diamond compass and replaced my obsidian compass's original functionality. I'm in the middle of updating that thread to shift the functionality of the Obsidian compass to a new method, and then the obsidian compass will reflect this thread's obsidian compass, and the diamond one will have the original functionality of the diamond compass, minus the portal pointer stuff. I'll probably switch it back to pointing to the place the player last died by default (spinning randomly if player hasn't died)
If there is another "Nether Compass" suggestion that uses the same concept, I don't care. I'm not trolling through the forums manually looking for it when I've likely never seen it before, and thus didn't draw on it as the inspiration for the idea.
That's the idea.
Because Mojang is a swedish company. I'm in america. I'm also just an idea guy at this point. My programming skills are rusty. I dunno about Yofreke, but I believe he already has a job in the game industry.
Awesome. I'll look into getting some sort of Banner together that people can use. I'm thinking something like a screenshot of the larger 5x6(3x4 inside) portal with an erupting volcano behind it, and the player sitting in a minecart that is in lava in front of it.
A) You can mine regular trees with your fists (unless you are using my extended 2x2 crafting mod, in which case you'd need an axe or hatchet) but Gloomwood requires Iron or better :cool.gif: Netherraze Tools give you presmelted blocks, Netherraze can smelt 16 blocks at double speed. 3 netherraze = 48 blocks smelted. Even on the overworld, Netherraze Tool will last for 251 blocks and have a chance to set enemies on fire when used as a weapon.
Why don't you read back over the description for the Gloomshards. Gloomwood blocks always generate shadow AND COLD. Gloomshards also generate shadows and cold, but can be turned off and on via redstone but can only be placed on Tilled Soul Sand.
You wont say that when they take a bite out of you and you find you're missing the pork you were planning to heal yourself back up with.
No. I've no interest in starting down a slippery slope in which every single Nether mob is repainted red. Eating fire does not make your fur turn red.
Personally, I think it's because the previous nether update suggestion imploded on itself before it could introduce anything that concretely made anything difficult at all. The only thing that it did was introduce new material for people to get, and with very little concrete details, so readers were left to insert their own interpretations as to how awesome all of these new tools and materials would SURELY be.
We already have Netherraze, Netherrack, Netherwurm. I draw the line there. I've already explained why Mushrave is a FAR better name on multiple different levels.
LOL. None of them do anything, except for that goofy infinitium crap that was supposed to never break.
That's adorable. If this were the Aether, I would totally support that idea. Except this is the Nether, and Zombie Pigmen are not Care Bears.
I can understand your issue with Netherraze, and I have been considering darkening the purple down, but the orange will stay. I think it does a pretty decent job evoking the hue of lava.
Would you be happy to have tat soul trapped in sand?
Look. You're saying "purple, orange and green only!" Green already is in the RGB spectrum, The Nether already has a red hue, so having blue light is going to look purple, and a red light is easily as creepy an "hellish" as orange.
Maybe I'll change the name to Mushrants :tongue.gif:
How about the first sentence in the description for Gloomwood; Sure, you can use Iron or diamond, but those take double durability in the Nether.
Yes:
Pigmen were originally a proud race that acted as lords of the Nether and had built entire kingdoms. At their peak, every Pigman carried tools of Netherraze, BloodGems, and perhaps even Obsidian and Netherrack or SoulGlass tools that used crafting recipes that have since been lost to time. These tools, combined with the PIgmen's numbers, were the strength that allowed them to lord over even the most dangerous beasts of the Nether.
However Pigmen had a weakness; their pride... and their greed.
When Midas Tears were discovered, the Pigmen found themselves unconsciously and irresistibly fond of the color and luster it brought to their tools and items. Soon the pigmen sacrificed every tool they had, each individual pigman was certain that his tool wouldn't make that big of a difference to the might of their race.
But soon nearly every tool the Pigmen race had built was now useless gold, unable to be used even to mine new Netherraze and Gloomwood, and too weak to kill more enemies for the bones and bloodgems. Their civilization fell to ruins, and with its fall the wills of the Pigmen were crushed completely. Without their confidence and determination, the pigmen race was eventually warped over time to the Zombie Pigmen that exist now. They still covet their gold tools, but some rare Zombie Pigman will stumble across a relic of Netherraze or Blood Gem and use it to lord over his small clan and act as chieftain.
Explain the logic to Trolls NOT existing in the Nether? Basically just that you want them in the Overworld?
No.
I'm fine with Iron.
You're apparently missing some points. There's nothing complicated about Corruption of blocks. Grass already corrupts adjacent Dirt blocks in the Overworld. The same thing would happen with Netherrack next to cobblestone and smoothstone. This doesn't prohibit anyone from building with nether materials in the overworld, or vica versa, just don't let those materials touch.
There's also no issue with having plants break under specific conditions. Saplings will already uproot themselves if light levels drop too low in the Overworld while not outside. This would just make that so Just about ALL plants would act this way when in the Nether.
I'm not interested in creating new tiers that make the old ones superfluous. Having Nether specific tools keeps them from being overpowered while still giving them interesting and useful abilities.
So all I need to make a demon bone is a regular bone, 8 cobblestone and some gloomwood? Do you really think that's any pricier?
I'm thinking maybe your problem is that it SOUNDS complicated, since many of the descriptions go very in depth about what the rules and conditions are for effects to happen.
I'll be honest, Sabata was pushing for the fire properties from Netherslick. I was never really behind it too much. However, if it works the same way as Netherrack, where having the fire spread in towards the source then also puts OUT the flames that had been burning, then it should work out fine.
An iron helmet uses the same number of ingots in the same shape, but merely upside down. I don't see what possible point a gold minecart would serve, so it's far easier just to leave it out and have the gold helmet instead.
Yes it is. It takes quite a bit of gloomwood to freeze a single block in the furnace. One of the front most recipes is to be able to freeze lava into obsidian. If Gloomwood can be used directly on lava by placing it for infinite uses, then it would be way overpowered compared to the Furnace method.
I think the description was supposed to mean that after it has absorbed flammable liquids it can then be ignited or something. Not certain on this one.
The existing Ores in this thread ARE based on the ones from the old Nether thread, as are the Mushraves based on Nethershrooms, however they were updated for balance and to have a proper theme instead of just arbitrary stuff.
Corruption stays. Like I explained, it's no worse than grass "corrupting" dirt. Don't place those particular blocks immediately next to each other, and there's no problem. If you absolutely HAVE to build them next to each other, then just build a portal underneath where they connect or something to stave off the corruption.
Not when you're talking about LIGHT. RGB is not a computer color spectrum, it's a LIGHT color spectrum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_theory
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series