The problem is that a bed makes sense as a spawn point, it's your resting location, and when you die, it makes sense that you wake up in it. With something like a chair, players will be placing down and using them a lot and it doesn't really fit what you would expect a player spawn to be.
But then this leaves only 1 way to fix the overpoweredness of the beds forever. 1) make wool only drop from sheep if shears are used and 2) remove the beds from villages. Meaning the player has to make their own beds and go through a few more steps in the game progression system to get the tool that is required to get that wool from the sheep. 3) stop beds from being used as free TNT in the End and Nether, instead make it so beds simply block the player from attempting to use them in those dimensions. Beds can still be picked up in End or Nether, but they serve no other purpose than decor there and only work in Overworld with their usual functions.
I agree to an extent. Here is what I like about your post;
-Beds shouldn't magically reset your spawn point.
100% Agree, though I'm not sure they really discourage innovation... But Challenge-wise, I could definitely see them having a major impact. However, I personally don't think they make 'survival' in survival mode non-existent. I believe it is still a challenge! (Then again I could just be a very bad player, lol.)
Regardless, we have respawn anchors now which I feel are less likely to be used due to beds being a cheaper alternative. The only reason I would use a respawn anchor currently is to reset my spawn in another dimension, such as the nether. TLDR; Beds shouldn't be able to magically reset your respawn point.
I think being able to skip the night is what makes the bed so great. Albeit OP, it is a great time saver and I would really hate to have to play through an entire night especially if I was working on a project or trying to explore. Removing the night-skipping feature from the bed when you already have the choice to use it or not would be a bit counterintuitive in my opinion but again, that's just me.
In conclusion,
I feel like changing their mechanics entirely for everyone would likely bother some people who think the beds are fine the way they are. I would like to be able to continue using beds in the same manner--just without the whole resetting my spawn point aspect. Obviously this is just my own opinion!
As a casual player who isn't very good at the game I would hate to see my literal security blanket get extremely altered, or worse... Taken away from me altogether!
I agree to an extent. Here is what I like about your post;
-Beds shouldn't magically reset your spawn point.
100% Agree, though I'm not sure they really discourage innovation... But Challenge-wise, I could definitely see them having a major impact. However, I personally don't think they make 'survival' in survival mode non-existent. I believe it is still a challenge! (Then again I could just be a very bad player, lol.)
Regardless, we have respawn anchors now which I feel are less likely to be used due to beds being a cheaper alternative. The only reason I would use a respawn anchor currently is to reset my spawn in another dimension, such as the nether. TLDR; Beds shouldn't be able to magically reset your respawn point.
I think being able to skip the night is what makes the bed so great. Albeit OP, it is a great time saver and I would really hate to have to play through an entire night especially if I was working on a project or trying to explore. Removing the night-skipping feature from the bed when you already have the choice to use it or not would be a bit counterintuitive in my opinion but again, that's just me.
In conclusion,
I feel like changing their mechanics entirely for everyone would likely bother some people who think the beds are fine the way they are. I would like to be able to continue using beds in the same manner--just without the whole resetting my spawn point aspect. Obviously this is just my own opinion!
As a casual player who isn't very good at the game I would hate to see my literal security blanket get extremely altered, or worse... Taken away from me altogether!
Their respawn mechanic is also useless for hardcore for obvious reasons.
and removing the reset spawn location mechanic entirely would be a barrier for survival players who also like gathering resources for projects to build. It is also the only way to stop the Phantom's from spawning after 3 nights of insomnia.
When people make suggestions that would vastly alter survival mode they need to consider this too in my opinion. Plus it isn't just their game, everyone's opinion on the game matters, thankfully was acknowledged by the original poster in the thread.
Unfortunately there isn't a more serious survival mode that caters to a more challenging playstyle except for hardcore mode,
I have suggested adding in very hard mode in the past, that would be very different from the easier 4 modes.
I also happen to be one of the people who think peaceful mode is pointless, unless people are getting used to playing survival for the first time there's no reason why anyone should be playing that mode in my view as there's no challenge to it.
I don't see a reason why to nerf beds really...
It's basically a more convenient alternative to digging a hole in the ground with a torch inside and going AFK for a couple minutes to wait till night is over. Why to make beds harder to get when it's mere convenience in this regard?
Failing to light up the base is a really stupid fail, because it's possible to get mass quantities of torches really easily with use of cobblestone furnaces and some logs to smelt into charcoal... it's not a challenge at all...
And I don't see a problem with beds resetting spawn points either, it's the real thing of making the base fortified, as you don't want to respawn in a place infested with mobs for whatever reason. Especially when you want to settle somewhere else than your spawn point. Should I be bound to my spawn point so hard?
Beds should IMO be easily accessible also due to how important rest is in real life, and I find villager count based on beds way more understandable than one based on doors.
Ya lads seem to be bored with regular survival you find too easy... here's dwarvish solution: play a cave single-biome world! Barely accessible wood, perpetual night that even beds can't deal with and lack of any meaningful vegetation will ensure that !!Fun!! is available at all times.
≡DwarfBonus≡: play in Crimson Forest biome in single-biome caves! Juggernaut undead hogs that outrange your melee weapons, very restricted access to ranged ordnance, standard ores available only through looting, complete inaccessibility to boats and uselessness of beds, magma blocks pulling you underwater when swimming, and your only reliable early-game food source ability to kill you all too well in field conditions will provide you with overwhelming amounts of !!Fun!!
Heads up, you will have one thing easier - stems are much more obtainable than looted planks from mineshafts.
Oh... and considering you can't fight Enderdragon due to lack of Strongholds, the "winning" condition should be considered beating Wither.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I don't see a reason why to nerf beds really...
It's basically a more convenient alternative to digging a hole in the ground with a torch inside and going AFK for a couple minutes to wait till night is over. Why to make beds harder to get when it's mere convenience in this regard?
Failing to light up the base is a really stupid fail, because it's possible to get mass quantities of torches really easily with use of cobblestone furnaces and some logs to smelt into charcoal... it's not a challenge at all...
And I don't see a problem with beds resetting spawn points either, it's the real thing of making the base fortified, as you don't want to respawn in a place infested with mobs for whatever reason. Especially when you want to settle somewhere else than your spawn point. Should I be bound to my spawn point so hard?
Beds should IMO be easily accessible also due to how important rest is in real life, and I find villager count based on beds way more understandable than one based on doors.
Ya lads seem to be bored with regular survival you find too easy... here's dwarvish solution: play a cave single-biome world! Barely accessible wood, perpetual night that even beds can't deal with and lack of any meaningful vegetation will ensure that !!Fun!! is available at all times.
≡DwarfBonus≡: play in Crimson Forest biome in single-biome caves! Juggernaut undead hogs that outrange your melee weapons, very restricted access to ranged ordnance, standard ores available only through looting, complete inaccessibility to boats and uselessness of beds, magma blocks pulling you underwater when swimming, and your only reliable early-game food source ability to kill you all too well in field conditions will provide you with overwhelming amounts of !!Fun!!
Heads up, you will have one thing easier - stems are much more obtainable than looted planks from mineshafts.
Oh... and considering you can't fight Enderdragon due to lack of Strongholds, the "winning" condition should be considered beating Wither.
I don't like time wasting any more than you do. I would agree with some kind of a nerf to make beds at least as they were before the village update, as it is an item that the player should craft, not be something that is handed to them like inheritance money. Crafting is the point of the game.
However there are suggestions I've heavily disagreed with, not because I hate challenges, but because time wasting is stupid, and we're not immortal IRL. Sometimes I do align with the opinion that if a game is too easy, then you should create your own challenges, e.g do speedruns, island challenge, play Skyblock, or on a legacy console world with more limited resources. This (playing on legacy console world types from Xbox 360/PS3) wouldn't make charcoal harder to get for your lighting, but what it would do is force rare items to become even more scarce, meaning you'd need to be more resourceful with the ores you find, knowing that without mending, diamonds will continue to become more scarce, even worse for nether resources.
The way I mine, I can hollow out a 20 by 200 by 200 square in less than a month, just by using stone and iron tools,
a week if I was using a diamond pickaxe all the time, and really inconsistent with my real life sleeping pattern, but that... wouldn't exactly be healthy to do. So a legacy world type wouldn't last very long with the way I play, I'm what some would call an avarice type when it comes to Minecraft.
I'm not on a legacy console world type mind you,
but this is because I wish to continue to have resources to mine indefinitely so me and friends I play with are not forced to make a new world.
I don't like time wasting any more than you do. I would agree with some kind of a nerf to make beds at least as they were before the village update, as it is an item that the player should craft, not be something that is handed to them like inheritance money. Crafting is the point of the game.
However there are suggestions I've heavily disagreed with, not because I hate challenges, but because time wasting is stupid, and we're not immortal IRL. Sometimes I do align with the opinion that if a game is too easy, then you should create your own challenges, e.g do speedruns, island challenge, play Skyblock, or on a legacy console world with more limited resources. This (playing on legacy console world types from Xbox 360/PS3) wouldn't make charcoal harder to get for your lighting, but what it would do is force rare items to become even more scarce, meaning you'd need to be more resourceful with the ores you find, knowing that without mending, diamonds will continue to become more scarce, even worse for nether resources.
The way I mine, I can hollow out a 20 by 200 by 200 square in less than a month, just by using stone and iron tools,
a week if I was using a diamond pickaxe all the time, and really inconsistent with my real life sleeping pattern, but that... wouldn't exactly be healthy to do. So a legacy world type wouldn't last very long with the way I play, I'm what some would call an avarice type when it comes to Minecraft.
I'm not on a legacy console world type mind you,
but this is because I wish to continue to have resources to mine indefinitely so me and friends I play with are not forced to make a new world.
Even before Village Update the beds were available easily even without sheep, you'd just need to rack up 12 strings from killed spiders.
And beds being available at villages enables to avoid the so-hated phantom harassment more easily... I think they are intended to be dirt-cheap after all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
Beds are way too easy to find. You shouldn't need to skip the night if it is beyond your skill level, you should need to defend yourself from it. Beds are also uselessly overpowered, you start off already supplied with enough blocks to survive from mobs. I've grown to accept beds, but the 1.14 update threw all that out the window. Beds should not spawn in villages.
How to defend yourself from hostile mobs:
1. Get 4 logs
2. Craft 3 logs into planks, and from that a crafting table, wooden pickaxe and some sticks
3. Mine 8 cobblestone
4. Craft a furnace and use it to smelt one piece of charcoal from remaining log using one of leftover planks
5. Make a torch
6. Dig a few blocks underground
7. Place a torch
8. Lock the exit
Now you are completely immune to any assault from all standard overworld mobs. In order to stay mobile, wait out the night and get out, taking the torch with you. Repeat steps 6-8 every sunset.
Bed just decreases amount of creepers around and saves you the wait.
For me it's nothing stupidly overpowered, at most convenient and helpful in settling somewhere else than your original spawn point.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
Even before Village Update the beds were available easily even without sheep, you'd just need to rack up 12 strings from killed spiders.
And beds being available at villages enables to avoid the so-hated phantom harassment more easily... I think they are intended to be dirt-cheap after all.
I do agree to a point, beds are a basic mechanic of the game and to remove their function entirely would defeat the purpose and be a slap in the face for Minecraft purists who want certain unchangable rules of play.
Unfortunately, no matter what changes Mojang makes, they're not going to please everyone. Even if beds were to have their respawn function disabled, the same people would be complaining that torches are too easy to make because of the immediately available and renewable resource charcoal from tree logs. If lanterns became the only permanent light source in the over world, they'd likely complain about drop rates of mob items being too common with no cool-down (only valid in the case of mob spawners imo), then they'd ask Mojang to nerf enchantments, and so on.
to remove or change the core mechanics now would as the OP said set an unwelcome precedent of shoehorning more game breaking features later on. I mean, some people have already asked for ravagers in raids to be capable of destroying any block, which in my opinion if this happened would be far worse than the Phantom harassment which is easily dealt with using beds, you wouldn't just be attacked by hostile mobs in this case, your base and anything you worked for would be auto griefed. Such a change should be reserved for a very hard mode, not forced on people who already gotten used to the current rules of the game and don't want them changed or made too confusing or inconvenient for them to deal with.
Good games shouldn't need to have their rules changed, though.
Just as chess is a game of strategy and has clearly defined rules, so should every other game.
Minecraft does have some strategy involved although it is clearly an apples to oranges comparison, you do need to use lighting, because if people don't, then it is their own fault if they die or if their builds get destroyed, simple, logical and it works.
Another 101, although people new to the game have done it, digging straight down is a bad idea.
Not only do you make it more difficult to escape if you land in a dark cave system with monsters inside it, which means death is very likely without armour, but you also risk falling into lava which is certain death without any fire resistance potion or fire protection enchantment and a bucket of water, neither of which you'd have at the start of the game unless you cheated.
Similarly beds being able to reset your spawn and skip the night is not inherently broken, it is a rule of the game.
Their implementation can be changed, sure, letting people easily acquire beds from villages on their first night is cheaty imo.
But to remove it altogether or make it excessively difficult to get so players are forced to deal with nonstop harassment from Phantom's early game, would be the same as saying rules are bad, or that it is okay to make up rules as we go along, which is what a child does,
it doesn't work.
I tend to prefer games that don't get their rules changed just because a developer feels like it, or one group of people complained on a forum telling them to. This is not to say all rules are perfect, far from it, but there's a saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Sometimes changing something makes it a lot worse for people.
I call that luck! It usually doesn't take much time to find and kill 3 sheeps, so the bed isn't village op loot.
Also you need some luck to have a village generate near spawn.
You can of corse generate worlds untill you are satisfied with a spawn village but even that is not cheating imo.
You suggestet earlyer in this thread that sheeps shouldn't drop wool simply by killing them.
I absolutly support that. That would make village beds even more valuable.
I crafted my first bed on my 2 current survival worlds, in both these worlds, only ever taken a bed from a village to make "checkpoints" so to speak when me and a friend went travelling. It wasn't really a needed thing, we did bring 1 new bed each with us before we encountered a village for that to happen, it was merely done to save time. Others do it, so why not us? but I do agree with what some others said here, that it does make the game too easy and players should make their own beds, imo.
All that changing this would do is mean we'd need to craft our own beds each time.
Bring some shears on your travels, heck I collected wool when I was exploring with a friend of mine on my realm.
Here's a list of some simple fixes which do make sense for beds in my view,
although others can disagree.
1) Remove beds from villages, beds being craftable only isn't a big deal.
2) Make wool only drop from sheep if shears are used, otherwise as a different poster said in a post, use strings from spiders. although getting enough wool this way is slower than using shears on sheep.
3) Don't allow beds to explode in nether or End or make hostile mobs immune to their explosion, but beds either way cannot be used in nether or end for sleeping or setting spawn.
4) If a player leaves a server, introduce a 2 minutes cool-down before a bed can be used, getting rid of an exploit that lets players circumvent the "all players need to be in bed" rule, this cool-down will not be in effect if no other players were on the server before nightfall on that same in-game day.
5) Another exploit to remove from beds is to force players to properly light their bases up, if there are any dark blocks adjacent to the bed and the base isn't secured with an iron door or gate from the outside or blocked off unlit caves etc, monsters wake them up in the middle of the night.
6) Increase the number of sleepless nights before a Phantom spawns from 3 to 5.
If this isn't enough of a fix in some people's eyes, then I'd advise they make or use a mod and play it their own way,
or Mojang introduces a harder mode in between hard and hardcore, very hard mode, to deal with this problem.
not introduce new rules that infiltrate the current survival experience which ruins it for everyone else.
1) Remove beds from villages, beds being craftable only isn't a big deal.
2) Make wool only drop from sheep if shears are used, otherwise as a different poster said in a post, use strings from spiders. although getting enough wool this way is slower than using shears on sheep.
3) Don't allow beds to explode in nether or End or make hostile mobs immune to their explosion, but beds either way cannot be used in nether or end for sleeping or setting spawn.
4) If a player leaves a server, introduce a 2 minutes cool-down before a bed can be used, getting rid of an exploit that lets players circumvent the "all players need to be in bed" rule, this cool-down will not be in effect if no other players were on the server before nightfall on that same in-game day.
5) Another exploit to remove from beds is to force players to properly light their bases up, if there are any dark blocks adjacent to the bed and the base isn't secured with an iron door or gate from the outside or blocked off unlit caves etc, monsters wake them up in the middle of the night.
6) Increase the number of sleepless nights before a Phantom spawns from 3 to 5.
If this isn't enough of a fix in some people's eyes, then I'd advise they make or use a mod and play it their own way,
or Mojang introduces a harder mode in between hard and hardcore, very hard mode, to deal with this problem.
not introduce new rules that infiltrate the current survival experience which ruins it for everyone else.
1. No, removing beds from villages removes villagers going to sleep as well as baby villagers jumping on beds.
2. YES!
3. Remove the explosion, disable placing the bed.
4. Every server owner should be able to decide that on his own.
5. Thats too complex! i don't like iron doors and a bed should not become a trap. If hostile mobs could break wooden doors on hard / hardcore again, i would apriciate it.
6. Rising the limit from 3 to 5 sounds good. Maybe instead create an event, simular to the bloodmoon mod, in wich the player can't sleep and gets harassed by phantoms. This event could happen on full moon nights, so once a week.
or Mojang introduces a harder mode in between hard and hardcore, very hard mode, to deal with this problem.
The only problem is that Hardcore is literally just Hard with one life - it is otherwise no harder or easier, which matches with the most common usage of "hardcore", which refers to a single life, not some super-hard difficulty, so any new difficulties beyond Hard would also need to apply to Hardcore itself (i.e. it is the hardest difficulty with one life).
If hostile mobs could break wooden doors on hard / hardcore again, i would apriciate it.
Zombies still can break doors, but they greatly nerfed the mechanic in 1.8 (as well as their aggro range, so they are less likely to target them/the player/villagers from a distance) so only a small percentage can, instead of any zombie. Also, I personally think this is a poor mechanic that does little to make the game harder (plus, you can easily prevent them from breaking doors anyway by simply placing it so it is "open" when it is "closed"; in other words, when you place the door place it so it appears to be open, as shown here. This also stops them from banging on doors on Easy and Normal).
The only problem is that Hardcore is literally just Hard with one life - it is otherwise no harder or easier, which matches with the most common usage of "hardcore", which refers to a single life, not some super-hard difficulty, so any new difficulties beyond Hard would also need to apply to Hardcore itself (i.e. it is the hardest difficulty with one life).
Zombies still can break doors, but they greatly nerfed the mechanic in 1.8 (as well as their aggro range, so they are less likely to target them/the player/villagers from a distance) so only a small percentage can, instead of any zombie. Also, I personally think this is a poor mechanic that does little to make the game harder (plus, you can easily prevent them from breaking doors anyway by simply placing it so it is "open" when it is "closed"; in other words, when you place the door place it so it appears to be open, as shown here. This also stops them from banging on doors on Easy and Normal).
The problem with this is some people are wanting the existing hard mode to be made much tougher, which is a controversial opinion believe it or not because on the other side of the community we have people who outright hate the Phantoms who keep harassing them just for not using a bed in 3 nights, something which could have been gotten away with before but ever since Mojang changed it, they cannot, no matter how well lit their villages are or at what altitude of terrain they're standing on, unless they are underground or inside of a shelter, they're going to be forced to use beds to avoid that.
We're about to deviate from the sandbox experience unless Mojang follows the suggestion Whitelight proposed in introducing a different game mode that is more challenging but still does not enforce the 1 life rule hardcore mode does.
The problem with this is some people are wanting the existing hard mode to be made much tougher, which is a controversial opinion believe it or not because on the other side of the community we have people who outright hate the Phantoms who keep harassing them just for not using a bed in 3 nights, something which could have been gotten away with before but ever since Mojang changed it, they cannot, no matter how well lit their villages are or at what altitude of terrain they're standing on, unless they are underground or inside of a shelter, they're going to be forced to use beds to avoid that.
We're about to deviate from the sandbox experience unless Mojang follows the suggestion Whitelight proposed in introducing a different game mode that is more challenging but still does not enforce the 1 life rule hardcore mode does.
That's comical.
Firstly, people refuse to use beds because that's "overpowered and too easy" and then complain about Phantoms making their nighttime hunts too tough.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I crafted my first bed on my 2 current survival worlds, in both these worlds, only ever taken a bed from a village to make "checkpoints" so to speak when me and a friend went travelling. It wasn't really a needed thing, we did bring 1 new bed each with us before we encountered a village for that to happen, it was merely done to save time. Others do it, so why not us? but I do agree with what some others said here, that it does make the game too easy and players should make their own beds, imo.
All that changing this would do is mean we'd need to craft our own beds each time.
Bring some shears on your travels, heck I collected wool when I was exploring with a friend of mine on my realm.
Here's a list of some simple fixes which do make sense for beds in my view,
although others can disagree.
1) Remove beds from villages, beds being craftable only isn't a big deal.
2) Make wool only drop from sheep if shears are used, otherwise as a different poster said in a post, use strings from spiders. although getting enough wool this way is slower than using shears on sheep.
3) Don't allow beds to explode in nether or End or make hostile mobs immune to their explosion, but beds either way cannot be used in nether or end for sleeping or setting spawn.
4) If a player leaves a server, introduce a 2 minutes cool-down before a bed can be used, getting rid of an exploit that lets players circumvent the "all players need to be in bed" rule, this cool-down will not be in effect if no other players were on the server before nightfall on that same in-game day.
5) Another exploit to remove from beds is to force players to properly light their bases up, if there are any dark blocks adjacent to the bed and the base isn't secured with an iron door or gate from the outside or blocked off unlit caves etc, monsters wake them up in the middle of the night.
6) Increase the number of sleepless nights before a Phantom spawns from 3 to 5.
If this isn't enough of a fix in some people's eyes, then I'd advise they make or use a mod and play it their own way,
or Mojang introduces a harder mode in between hard and hardcore, very hard mode, to deal with this problem.
not introduce new rules that infiltrate the current survival experience which ruins it for everyone else.
I don't really see what you are trying to fix in case of beds. I mean... why is it even wrong that beds are common and regularly used as one of the most basic furniture blocks in Minecraft? I'd expect a place to sleep in every realistic shelter. And availability from day 1 lets the player avoid waiting over the first night in a hole underground doing nothing.
Also:
Proposal 1 means coming back of cheap door spam to make villagers breed and noses just wandering around their houses instead of sleeping like normal people.
Proposal 3 sounds good, but that's because I find bed IEDs unintended exploit rather than intentional tool.
Proposal 4 sounds good, but that's because I find leaving dodge an unintended exploit rather than intentional tool.
Proposal 5 is going to cause more harm than good. It's way easier to get torches via cobblestone to light the area up than a bed to sleep in, the player will always be able to light it up in practical manner, without even needing to wall in the bed to protect it even from some stupid zombies. In aesthetic manner, it's going to be harmful, as beds in shady bedrooms secured by slab floors will be unusable.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I don't really see what you are trying to fix in case of beds. I mean... why is it even wrong that beds are common and regularly used as one of the most basic furniture blocks in Minecraft? I'd expect a place to sleep in every realistic shelter. And availability from day 1 lets the player avoid waiting over the first night in a hole underground doing nothing.
Also:
Proposal 1 means coming back of cheap door spam to make villagers breed and noses just wandering around their houses instead of sleeping like normal people.
Proposal 3 sounds good, but that's because I find bed IEDs unintended exploit rather than intentional tool.
Proposal 4 sounds good, but that's because I find leaving dodge an unintended exploit rather than intentional tool.
Proposal 5 is going to cause more harm than good. It's way easier to get torches via cobblestone to light the area up than a bed to sleep in, the player will always be able to light it up in practical manner, without even needing to wall in the bed to protect it even from some stupid zombies. In aesthetic manner, it's going to be harmful, as beds in shady bedrooms secured by slab floors will be unusable.
1) then rework the village beds to be a different kind of item that can only be used by villagers and not be slept in by players, villager beds in this case would make more sense if you care so much about the aesthetic of NPC's sleeping in beds which you don't even have any interest in besides trading, spawning golems or maintaining a farm.
3) no comment
4) no comment
5) really? that's strange, because in my first day in Minecraft I tend to go for sheep unless I intentionally put it off too long to get some extra wood for making other goodies besides just torches, on day 1 I'm not really that bothered about waiting out the night in some wooden shack. As long as I've got a gate on the front of the entrance and they can't come in from any other way, which they don't with my design, it simply doesn't matter. I've done this without torches before mind you, not always, but occasionally I do it, monsters do spawn in darkness but only if there is sufficient distance between it and the player, there's a limit to the radius of their spawning, that's why with such a small shack I can afford to slack off a bit. Personally I find wool from sheep easier to get than torches, but then during the day it isn't imperative you be making torches in broad daylight, you just kill a sheep and the wool drops, one of the easiest things to do.
1) then rework the village beds to be a different kind of item that can only be used by villagers and not be slept in by players, villager beds in this case would make more sense if you care so much about the aesthetic of NPC's sleeping in beds which you don't even have any interest in besides trading, spawning golems or maintaining a farm.
3) no comment
4) no comment
5) really? that's strange, because in my first day in Minecraft I tend to go for sheep unless I intentionally put it off too long to get some extra wood for making other goodies besides just torches, on day 1 I'm not really that bothered about waiting out the night in some wooden shack. As long as I've got a gate on the front of the entrance and they can't come in from any other way, which they don't with my design, it simply doesn't matter. I've done this without torches before mind you, not always, but occasionally I do it, monsters do spawn in darkness but only if there is sufficient distance between it and the player, there's a limit to the radius of their spawning, that's why with such a small shack I can afford to slack off a bit. Personally I find wool from sheep easier to get than torches, but then during the day it isn't imperative you be making torches in broad daylight, you just kill a sheep and the wool drops, one of the easiest things to do.
Sheep do not always spawn right under your nose, often you got to find them.
Digging a hole and getting cobble out of it is IMO the most basic thing to do right after getting some wood, mostly because stone tools are significantly stronger than their wooden counterparts.
And if sheep spawn right under your nose then you have a ton of time to dig a hole and get torches out.
Shack?
It's much cheaper to use the quarry hole as subterranean shelter and lock the ladder off with a trapdoor or even a dirt block.
And the solution still makes purposefully dark, made for climate, but also safe sleeping rooms unusable.
And I still don't understand why to change anything if it's going to make either side of a long conflict discontent.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I agree more with the making villagers sleep in beds in villages only more than removing them completly , there's no need for that. Wanna sleep in a village, find sheep and make your own bed. A simple recipe for a sleeping bag could be possible, but even then they'd be those that would complain no matter what. (More agreeable alternative to using campfires and chairs.)
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"And I don't see a problem with beds resetting spawn points either, it's the real thing of making the base fortified, as you don't want to respawn in a place infested with mobs for whatever reason. Especially when you want to settle somewhere else than your spawn point. Should I be bound to my spawn point so hard?"
I don't think it's a problem but it would be nicer (in my opinion) if respawn anchors where the only way to set a new spawn point because currently they are the only reason why beds are "OP" in my eyes. I like the way the beds are now, just without the resetting spawn point.
Just so I don't start a war and am absolutely 100% clear;
If they change beds to not reset spawn point but still do everything else they already do great. If they leave beds alone great. Some of these suggestions like making sheep not drop wool seem a tad ridiculous to me as they only serve to make the game more time consuming. Not being able to place beds in the nether would kinda suck but I can see why that is considered "OP" as well. However, I do like the fact that beds can be used as explosives. But anyways, I'm rambling. Here is my point: THE ONLY THING I DON'T LIKE IS THE RESETTING SPAWN POINT, basically. Either way, I honestly don't mind beds aside from that one change and nothing so far makes me want to say 0mG B3dS aRe OvErp0WerD. < Just a joke, btw.
But then this leaves only 1 way to fix the overpoweredness of the beds forever. 1) make wool only drop from sheep if shears are used and 2) remove the beds from villages. Meaning the player has to make their own beds and go through a few more steps in the game progression system to get the tool that is required to get that wool from the sheep. 3) stop beds from being used as free TNT in the End and Nether, instead make it so beds simply block the player from attempting to use them in those dimensions. Beds can still be picked up in End or Nether, but they serve no other purpose than decor there and only work in Overworld with their usual functions.
I agree to an extent. Here is what I like about your post;
-Beds shouldn't magically reset your spawn point.
100% Agree, though I'm not sure they really discourage innovation... But Challenge-wise, I could definitely see them having a major impact. However, I personally don't think they make 'survival' in survival mode non-existent. I believe it is still a challenge! (Then again I could just be a very bad player, lol.)
Regardless, we have respawn anchors now which I feel are less likely to be used due to beds being a cheaper alternative. The only reason I would use a respawn anchor currently is to reset my spawn in another dimension, such as the nether. TLDR; Beds shouldn't be able to magically reset your respawn point.
I think being able to skip the night is what makes the bed so great. Albeit OP, it is a great time saver and I would really hate to have to play through an entire night especially if I was working on a project or trying to explore. Removing the night-skipping feature from the bed when you already have the choice to use it or not would be a bit counterintuitive in my opinion but again, that's just me.
In conclusion,
I feel like changing their mechanics entirely for everyone would likely bother some people who think the beds are fine the way they are. I would like to be able to continue using beds in the same manner--just without the whole resetting my spawn point aspect. Obviously this is just my own opinion!
As a casual player who isn't very good at the game I would hate to see my literal security blanket get extremely altered, or worse... Taken away from me altogether!
Their respawn mechanic is also useless for hardcore for obvious reasons.
and removing the reset spawn location mechanic entirely would be a barrier for survival players who also like gathering resources for projects to build. It is also the only way to stop the Phantom's from spawning after 3 nights of insomnia.
When people make suggestions that would vastly alter survival mode they need to consider this too in my opinion. Plus it isn't just their game, everyone's opinion on the game matters, thankfully was acknowledged by the original poster in the thread.
Unfortunately there isn't a more serious survival mode that caters to a more challenging playstyle except for hardcore mode,
I have suggested adding in very hard mode in the past, that would be very different from the easier 4 modes.
I also happen to be one of the people who think peaceful mode is pointless, unless people are getting used to playing survival for the first time there's no reason why anyone should be playing that mode in my view as there's no challenge to it.
I don't see a reason why to nerf beds really...
It's basically a more convenient alternative to digging a hole in the ground with a torch inside and going AFK for a couple minutes to wait till night is over. Why to make beds harder to get when it's mere convenience in this regard?
Failing to light up the base is a really stupid fail, because it's possible to get mass quantities of torches really easily with use of cobblestone furnaces and some logs to smelt into charcoal... it's not a challenge at all...
And I don't see a problem with beds resetting spawn points either, it's the real thing of making the base fortified, as you don't want to respawn in a place infested with mobs for whatever reason. Especially when you want to settle somewhere else than your spawn point. Should I be bound to my spawn point so hard?
Beds should IMO be easily accessible also due to how important rest is in real life, and I find villager count based on beds way more understandable than one based on doors.
Ya lads seem to be bored with regular survival you find too easy... here's dwarvish solution: play a cave single-biome world! Barely accessible wood, perpetual night that even beds can't deal with and lack of any meaningful vegetation will ensure that !!Fun!! is available at all times.
≡DwarfBonus≡: play in Crimson Forest biome in single-biome caves! Juggernaut undead hogs that outrange your melee weapons, very restricted access to ranged ordnance, standard ores available only through looting, complete inaccessibility to boats and uselessness of beds, magma blocks pulling you underwater when swimming, and your only reliable early-game food source ability to kill you all too well in field conditions will provide you with overwhelming amounts of !!Fun!!
Heads up, you will have one thing easier - stems are much more obtainable than looted planks from mineshafts.
Oh... and considering you can't fight Enderdragon due to lack of Strongholds, the "winning" condition should be considered beating Wither.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I don't like time wasting any more than you do. I would agree with some kind of a nerf to make beds at least as they were before the village update, as it is an item that the player should craft, not be something that is handed to them like inheritance money. Crafting is the point of the game.
However there are suggestions I've heavily disagreed with, not because I hate challenges, but because time wasting is stupid, and we're not immortal IRL. Sometimes I do align with the opinion that if a game is too easy, then you should create your own challenges, e.g do speedruns, island challenge, play Skyblock, or on a legacy console world with more limited resources. This (playing on legacy console world types from Xbox 360/PS3) wouldn't make charcoal harder to get for your lighting, but what it would do is force rare items to become even more scarce, meaning you'd need to be more resourceful with the ores you find, knowing that without mending, diamonds will continue to become more scarce, even worse for nether resources.
The way I mine, I can hollow out a 20 by 200 by 200 square in less than a month, just by using stone and iron tools,
a week if I was using a diamond pickaxe all the time, and really inconsistent with my real life sleeping pattern, but that... wouldn't exactly be healthy to do. So a legacy world type wouldn't last very long with the way I play, I'm what some would call an avarice type when it comes to Minecraft.
I'm not on a legacy console world type mind you,
but this is because I wish to continue to have resources to mine indefinitely so me and friends I play with are not forced to make a new world.
Even before Village Update the beds were available easily even without sheep, you'd just need to rack up 12 strings from killed spiders.
And beds being available at villages enables to avoid the so-hated phantom harassment more easily... I think they are intended to be dirt-cheap after all.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
How to defend yourself from hostile mobs:
1. Get 4 logs
2. Craft 3 logs into planks, and from that a crafting table, wooden pickaxe and some sticks
3. Mine 8 cobblestone
4. Craft a furnace and use it to smelt one piece of charcoal from remaining log using one of leftover planks
5. Make a torch
6. Dig a few blocks underground
7. Place a torch
8. Lock the exit
Now you are completely immune to any assault from all standard overworld mobs. In order to stay mobile, wait out the night and get out, taking the torch with you. Repeat steps 6-8 every sunset.
Bed just decreases amount of creepers around and saves you the wait.
For me it's nothing stupidly overpowered, at most convenient and helpful in settling somewhere else than your original spawn point.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I do agree to a point, beds are a basic mechanic of the game and to remove their function entirely would defeat the purpose and be a slap in the face for Minecraft purists who want certain unchangable rules of play.
Unfortunately, no matter what changes Mojang makes, they're not going to please everyone. Even if beds were to have their respawn function disabled, the same people would be complaining that torches are too easy to make because of the immediately available and renewable resource charcoal from tree logs. If lanterns became the only permanent light source in the over world, they'd likely complain about drop rates of mob items being too common with no cool-down (only valid in the case of mob spawners imo), then they'd ask Mojang to nerf enchantments, and so on.
to remove or change the core mechanics now would as the OP said set an unwelcome precedent of shoehorning more game breaking features later on. I mean, some people have already asked for ravagers in raids to be capable of destroying any block, which in my opinion if this happened would be far worse than the Phantom harassment which is easily dealt with using beds, you wouldn't just be attacked by hostile mobs in this case, your base and anything you worked for would be auto griefed. Such a change should be reserved for a very hard mode, not forced on people who already gotten used to the current rules of the game and don't want them changed or made too confusing or inconvenient for them to deal with.
Good games shouldn't need to have their rules changed, though.
Just as chess is a game of strategy and has clearly defined rules, so should every other game.
Minecraft does have some strategy involved although it is clearly an apples to oranges comparison, you do need to use lighting, because if people don't, then it is their own fault if they die or if their builds get destroyed, simple, logical and it works.
Another 101, although people new to the game have done it, digging straight down is a bad idea.
Not only do you make it more difficult to escape if you land in a dark cave system with monsters inside it, which means death is very likely without armour, but you also risk falling into lava which is certain death without any fire resistance potion or fire protection enchantment and a bucket of water, neither of which you'd have at the start of the game unless you cheated.
Similarly beds being able to reset your spawn and skip the night is not inherently broken, it is a rule of the game.
Their implementation can be changed, sure, letting people easily acquire beds from villages on their first night is cheaty imo.
But to remove it altogether or make it excessively difficult to get so players are forced to deal with nonstop harassment from Phantom's early game, would be the same as saying rules are bad, or that it is okay to make up rules as we go along, which is what a child does,
it doesn't work.
I tend to prefer games that don't get their rules changed just because a developer feels like it, or one group of people complained on a forum telling them to. This is not to say all rules are perfect, far from it, but there's a saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Sometimes changing something makes it a lot worse for people.
I call that luck! It usually doesn't take much time to find and kill 3 sheeps, so the bed isn't village op loot.
Also you need some luck to have a village generate near spawn.
You can of corse generate worlds untill you are satisfied with a spawn village but even that is not cheating imo.
You suggestet earlyer in this thread that sheeps shouldn't drop wool simply by killing them.
I absolutly support that. That would make village beds even more valuable.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
I crafted my first bed on my 2 current survival worlds, in both these worlds, only ever taken a bed from a village to make "checkpoints" so to speak when me and a friend went travelling. It wasn't really a needed thing, we did bring 1 new bed each with us before we encountered a village for that to happen, it was merely done to save time. Others do it, so why not us? but I do agree with what some others said here, that it does make the game too easy and players should make their own beds, imo.
All that changing this would do is mean we'd need to craft our own beds each time.
Bring some shears on your travels, heck I collected wool when I was exploring with a friend of mine on my realm.
Here's a list of some simple fixes which do make sense for beds in my view,
although others can disagree.
1) Remove beds from villages, beds being craftable only isn't a big deal.
2) Make wool only drop from sheep if shears are used, otherwise as a different poster said in a post, use strings from spiders. although getting enough wool this way is slower than using shears on sheep.
3) Don't allow beds to explode in nether or End or make hostile mobs immune to their explosion, but beds either way cannot be used in nether or end for sleeping or setting spawn.
4) If a player leaves a server, introduce a 2 minutes cool-down before a bed can be used, getting rid of an exploit that lets players circumvent the "all players need to be in bed" rule, this cool-down will not be in effect if no other players were on the server before nightfall on that same in-game day.
5) Another exploit to remove from beds is to force players to properly light their bases up, if there are any dark blocks adjacent to the bed and the base isn't secured with an iron door or gate from the outside or blocked off unlit caves etc, monsters wake them up in the middle of the night.
6) Increase the number of sleepless nights before a Phantom spawns from 3 to 5.
If this isn't enough of a fix in some people's eyes, then I'd advise they make or use a mod and play it their own way,
or Mojang introduces a harder mode in between hard and hardcore, very hard mode, to deal with this problem.
not introduce new rules that infiltrate the current survival experience which ruins it for everyone else.
1. No, removing beds from villages removes villagers going to sleep as well as baby villagers jumping on beds.
2. YES!
3. Remove the explosion, disable placing the bed.
4. Every server owner should be able to decide that on his own.
5. Thats too complex! i don't like iron doors and a bed should not become a trap. If hostile mobs could break wooden doors on hard / hardcore again, i would apriciate it.
6. Rising the limit from 3 to 5 sounds good. Maybe instead create an event, simular to the bloodmoon mod, in wich the player can't sleep and gets harassed by phantoms. This event could happen on full moon nights, so once a week.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
The only problem is that Hardcore is literally just Hard with one life - it is otherwise no harder or easier, which matches with the most common usage of "hardcore", which refers to a single life, not some super-hard difficulty, so any new difficulties beyond Hard would also need to apply to Hardcore itself (i.e. it is the hardest difficulty with one life).
Zombies still can break doors, but they greatly nerfed the mechanic in 1.8 (as well as their aggro range, so they are less likely to target them/the player/villagers from a distance) so only a small percentage can, instead of any zombie. Also, I personally think this is a poor mechanic that does little to make the game harder (plus, you can easily prevent them from breaking doors anyway by simply placing it so it is "open" when it is "closed"; in other words, when you place the door place it so it appears to be open, as shown here. This also stops them from banging on doors on Easy and Normal).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
The problem with this is some people are wanting the existing hard mode to be made much tougher, which is a controversial opinion believe it or not because on the other side of the community we have people who outright hate the Phantoms who keep harassing them just for not using a bed in 3 nights, something which could have been gotten away with before but ever since Mojang changed it, they cannot, no matter how well lit their villages are or at what altitude of terrain they're standing on, unless they are underground or inside of a shelter, they're going to be forced to use beds to avoid that.
We're about to deviate from the sandbox experience unless Mojang follows the suggestion Whitelight proposed in introducing a different game mode that is more challenging but still does not enforce the 1 life rule hardcore mode does.
That's comical.
Firstly, people refuse to use beds because that's "overpowered and too easy" and then complain about Phantoms making their nighttime hunts too tough.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
My point is we don't have people who agree with all our opinions.
I'm not the one who believes Phantoms are too difficult, they aren't, not with beds being as easy as they are to obtain
unfortunately this is not a universal opinion, shocker there.
If mine and the OP's suggestions were to be implemented, do you think this would make them any happier?
clearly not, going forward I do believe Mojang does need to implement a different and higher difficulty mode but still has infinite lives.
It's a logical thing to do because then it gives Mojang more liberty to introduce changes without too much backlash about it from the community.
I don't really see what you are trying to fix in case of beds. I mean... why is it even wrong that beds are common and regularly used as one of the most basic furniture blocks in Minecraft? I'd expect a place to sleep in every realistic shelter. And availability from day 1 lets the player avoid waiting over the first night in a hole underground doing nothing.
Also:
Proposal 1 means coming back of cheap door spam to make villagers breed and noses just wandering around their houses instead of sleeping like normal people.
Proposal 3 sounds good, but that's because I find bed IEDs unintended exploit rather than intentional tool.
Proposal 4 sounds good, but that's because I find leaving dodge an unintended exploit rather than intentional tool.
Proposal 5 is going to cause more harm than good. It's way easier to get torches via cobblestone to light the area up than a bed to sleep in, the player will always be able to light it up in practical manner, without even needing to wall in the bed to protect it even from some stupid zombies. In aesthetic manner, it's going to be harmful, as beds in shady bedrooms secured by slab floors will be unusable.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
1) then rework the village beds to be a different kind of item that can only be used by villagers and not be slept in by players, villager beds in this case would make more sense if you care so much about the aesthetic of NPC's sleeping in beds which you don't even have any interest in besides trading, spawning golems or maintaining a farm.
3) no comment
4) no comment
5) really? that's strange, because in my first day in Minecraft I tend to go for sheep unless I intentionally put it off too long to get some extra wood for making other goodies besides just torches, on day 1 I'm not really that bothered about waiting out the night in some wooden shack. As long as I've got a gate on the front of the entrance and they can't come in from any other way, which they don't with my design, it simply doesn't matter. I've done this without torches before mind you, not always, but occasionally I do it, monsters do spawn in darkness but only if there is sufficient distance between it and the player, there's a limit to the radius of their spawning, that's why with such a small shack I can afford to slack off a bit. Personally I find wool from sheep easier to get than torches, but then during the day it isn't imperative you be making torches in broad daylight, you just kill a sheep and the wool drops, one of the easiest things to do.
Sheep do not always spawn right under your nose, often you got to find them.
Digging a hole and getting cobble out of it is IMO the most basic thing to do right after getting some wood, mostly because stone tools are significantly stronger than their wooden counterparts.
And if sheep spawn right under your nose then you have a ton of time to dig a hole and get torches out.
Shack?
It's much cheaper to use the quarry hole as subterranean shelter and lock the ladder off with a trapdoor or even a dirt block.
And the solution still makes purposefully dark, made for climate, but also safe sleeping rooms unusable.
And I still don't understand why to change anything if it's going to make either side of a long conflict discontent.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I agree more with the making villagers sleep in beds in villages only more than removing them completly , there's no need for that. Wanna sleep in a village, find sheep and make your own bed. A simple recipe for a sleeping bag could be possible, but even then they'd be those that would complain no matter what. (More agreeable alternative to using campfires and chairs.)
Closed old thread
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"And I don't see a problem with beds resetting spawn points either, it's the real thing of making the base fortified, as you don't want to respawn in a place infested with mobs for whatever reason. Especially when you want to settle somewhere else than your spawn point. Should I be bound to my spawn point so hard?"
I don't think it's a problem but it would be nicer (in my opinion) if respawn anchors where the only way to set a new spawn point because currently they are the only reason why beds are "OP" in my eyes. I like the way the beds are now, just without the resetting spawn point.
Just so I don't start a war and am absolutely 100% clear;
If they change beds to not reset spawn point but still do everything else they already do great. If they leave beds alone great. Some of these suggestions like making sheep not drop wool seem a tad ridiculous to me as they only serve to make the game more time consuming. Not being able to place beds in the nether would kinda suck but I can see why that is considered "OP" as well. However, I do like the fact that beds can be used as explosives. But anyways, I'm rambling. Here is my point: THE ONLY THING I DON'T LIKE IS THE RESETTING SPAWN POINT, basically. Either way, I honestly don't mind beds aside from that one change and nothing so far makes me want to say 0mG B3dS aRe OvErp0WerD. < Just a joke, btw.