The biggest problems I have with current Minecraft (I have been playing since early 2011) is that the current terrain generation is awful.
It is way too predictable and this was "fixed" by adding new biomes which is like putting a band aid on a broken arm.
The terrain is way too predictable, once you have seen one biome then you have seen most of them. For example the beta generation (before beta 1.8) was way less predictable and had much more variety than current even though current version have MANY more biomes. The same is seen with caves, it is just forced endless caves with little variety.
My suggestion is to add a NEW improved terrain generator that doesn't have this predictable generation and is similiar to the beta generation.
Another suggestion is also a cave update (deeper caves, more blocks etc.) which has been requested a lot.
For me, currently the terrain generator and outdated caves are by far the biggest problems Minecraft currently has in my opinion. Ironically beta 1.8 the adventure update ruined adventuring. This is also one of the major reasons I quit survival, and started with PVP and doing minigames instead. One of the main aspects of survival should be exploring and adventure.
Caves did not actually change between Beta 1.7.3 and Beta 1.8 - the only change was that they fixed a bug that caused tunnels to cut off along chunk borders and added ravines and mineshafts, which did greatly increase the underground interconnectivity to the point where it is more or less infinite, especially further away from spawn (mineshafts are less common closer to the origin). However, they greatly reduced the density and size variation of cave systems in 1.7, making caves much more uniformly spread out, as well as made mineshafts much less common; the differences are quite stark when the underground interconnectivity is mapped (to make these maps I generated simulated chunks which were then copied to a larger array and then I located a suitable cave near the origin and tracked out every path that was directly interconnected to it between y=11-62, which is colored in green, with other areas in brown):
1.6.4 (I used the seed for my first world, "-123775873255737467"):
This was centered at 0,0, with a random air block nearby chosen as the starting point:
Centered around 0, 1536; if you compare these you'll notice that the uninterconnected area to the lower-left of the map above is now interconnected, and conversely the area to the upper-right is interconnected in the previous map (that is, there are large-scale regions where there are no direct interconnections for hundreds or even thousands of blocks, but eventually you can find a way across them):
Centered at 1536, 0; similar to the previous map, the uninterconnected region near the left is interconnected on the first map:
1.7-1.12.2 (the locations of caves changed in 1.13 but the overall distribution was unchanged):
Centered at 0,0; it went about 1100 blocks to the northwest before ending (the area shown is 3072x3072 blocks):
I then tried recentering it at 0,64 to start in an area uninterconnected to the one above, which didn't get that far:
Likewise, this is the result of centering it at 64,64:
I then chose a point at 0,4096, which is well outside of the region where mineshafts are less common (within 1280 blocks of the origin); despite the higher number of mineshafts it still only went around 700 blocks north-south before ending:
Also, I think it is no fun at all if you can't explore the world by caving without constantly running into dead ends and the last thing that a cave update would do is make caves even less interconnected; for comparison, this is what an interconnectivity map for TMCW looks like:
This is a closeup of part of the map above, rendered normally, to give you a closer look at the underground variation that TMCW has, from a much larger range in the sizes of individual caves/tunnels/ravines to variations in how individual cave systems are structured (e.g. varying the width, curviness, length, size variation, etc of individual tunnels):
This is the same area but with only "special" caves shown (larger than vanilla or special types of cave systems), this one is at 2:1 scale for more detail:
Likewise, there is a popular mod called "Worley's Caves" which generates an infinite network, though I have no idea why it is popular because there is literally no variation whatsoever (it just makes a lattice of tunnels with little local variation in density and no rooms/chambers/ravines or other cave shapes).
But when it comes to the terrain in general (not specifically caves) is that Mojang focuses more on spamming more biomes and reworking them instead of actually focusing on a new terrain generator. Once I have seen the biome, I have seen all of them.
About caves, they are just outdated in general and needs changes like new ores, new stuff (100 more blocks til bedrock etc).
Terrain is generated randomly, there is only so much random generation it can do, if you play minecraft a lot it tends to get repetitive. The huge variety of biomes is there to mix up having just blocks and blocks full of the same old biome. Each biome tends to contain unique blocks, trees and wildlife. Obviously, if you play the game alot you tend to get bored of the biomes and want something new. The generation of the terrain is random enough to create a different world each time you create one, that is the purpose of the terrain generator. Imagine generating a new world and each time it loads the tutorial world, block for block, wouldn't be much fun. Yes, when you have played for 9 years, you tend to want new content because you are so used to the old content. They can only update so quickly. The different biomes is enough to bring a different generated world each time one is created, which is its intended purpose. Ores would be hard to add in Minecraft, hence why it has taken time for them to bring new ores like netherite. They can't just throw ores in there for example copper or tungsten as it would not only take focus off iron and other ores but essentially change an awful lot about minecraft and its recipes which would just overall ruin the game. New ores need to be planned out and implemented in a way where they won't take purpose off the ores that already exist. This was done greatly in the newest snapshots that included netherite, as it spawns in the nether and doesn't interfear with anything. Surely for a player who has played for 9 years like myself appreciates an improvement to the nether, it was a bit bare. Rather than focussing on the already decent generation of terrain, why not suggest ideas for new biomes in the nether or maybe even the end that could contain ores you'd like to see implemented? I suggest terrain forming the land so it looks better, as there is very slim chance that the terrain generator is going to recieve many more updates as the terrain is already pretty good for its randomality as it is.
Terrain is generated randomly, there is only so much random generation it can do, if you play minecraft a lot it tends to get repetitive. The huge variety of biomes is there to mix up having just blocks and blocks full of the same old biome.
To the contrary, the changes to the way biomes are laid out in 1.7 significantly reduced the local-scale variation in biomes:
The first image is an AMIDST map of the seed TMCWv4 in 1.7 and the second is a rendering of a world with the same seed in the same version of my namesake mod - the 1.7+ map is mostly plains, forests, and mountains with not a single "hot" (e.g. deserts") or snowy biome in sight (there is a small jungle and swamp, which are more different from the rest), and while a 2048x2048 block area may not seem that large it takes me around half a year to explore such an area. The last image is the spawn area from a vanilla 1.6.4 world, which includes every category of biome within a 400x400 block area. Here is a more zoomed-out map of a typical 1.7+ world, showing the vast regions which are mostly the same few biomes, plus the occasional rare variant:
For comparison, this is a map I made of TMCW, showing an absolutely staggering variety in biomes (even then it is not easy to find every biome, some may be thousands of blocks from spawn and I have still not found two biomes added to the first version despite exploring multiple level 4 maps across every world I've made with TMCW, much less every biome added since then. The area shown is 8192x8192 blocks, or 16 level 4 maps):
The nether has a different terrain generation, I have a problem with simply ADDING biomes to the overworld because it does not fix the issue Minecraft has. That would be using a band aid for a broken arm. I agree that the terrain is random, but nowhere near random enough as it should be.
Biomes look too identical, they are usually the same size and have limited height variation. You can add hundreds of biomes and you still could not come close to the variation pre beta 1.8 gen could.
I suggested a change in biome generation code or in other words focus on a new terrain generator because this impacts gameplay a lot. Exploring, and adventure is to me very important when it comes to playing survival which is why I gave up on it. Yea, new biomes are fun but they get boring very quickly because every world is not random enough.
Yeah the default world generation is kinda boring sometimes. You know that if you go in a forest biome most of the terrain is going to be flat except of some few small hills here and now. Also swamps are really awful in my opinion.
Also in really old versions of Minecraft (pre-beta 1.8) there we're sections where sand, gravel or even stone would spawn, adding a bit more variety on the terrain. I wish Mojang could re-add that stuff.
I found an image where they combined the old generator with current biomes. Looks pretty good, except its a bit patchy and wacky in this image, but look at the variety.
I found an image where they combined the old generator with current biomes. Looks pretty good, except its a bit patchy and wacky in this image, but look at the variety.
The only issue that I have is that you can't control terrain height variations unless biomes control them; what happens when a village generates in a mountainous desert? Ever see all those dried-up "rivers" in even relatively flat biomes like plains or hideous "beaches" splashed up a hillside? This is why TMCW has many different types of deserts, from a relatively flat vanilla desert to an extreme mountainous desert which can have peaks exceeding y=160; villages can only generate in normal desert and can't extend outside of their spawn biomes (they are more common to offset the reduction in spawn biomes; vanilla 1.10 removed the biome restriction so you can find weird stuff like villages generating in rivers and such, which wouldn't be so bad if only paths could cross rivers):
These were all taken from the same world (the one I showed before, but full-size closeups):
A combination of a mountainous desert and regular desert, plus their hills variations (4 separate biomes):
Another desert, with more flat areas and structures:
A desert with relatively flat terrain:
Another desert:
This is from a different world, showing how extreme a mountainous desert can get (not very common) the highest peaks are over y=160:
Even in such extreme terrain rivers still go all the way down to sea level; they only dry up in a couple biomes, which replace them with a lower level of their terrain:
The same goes for other biomes:
An Ice Plains which is pretty fitting of its name:
On the other hand, this one has a massive mountain reaching y=165. Also, to the left is a Rocky Mountains biome, which uses multiple biomes with different heights arranged in rings to create massive mountains with smooth slopes which can't be created through random height noise (either they are too small or too jagged or too random):
A Forest Mountains biome; while not intentional (it is supposed to be a mountain-type biome) half of it is relatively flat and even below sea level:
That said, I did increase the height variation of most normal biomes to be closer to the height variation of their hills counterparts in vanilla (desert and plains are actually flatter than vanilla, but they have hilly/mountainous counterparts). Of course, as seen in the examples you can find pretty much any biome next to any other biome and dozens of different biomes within a level 4 map (some might say that this makes it too easy to find every biome but there is nothing that guarantees that every biome will generate within any area; in fact, I haven't found two biomes added to the first version of TMCW across many worlds, much less many of biomes added since, though my playstyle means that it takes months of playing several hours a day to explore a single level 4 map):
A biome map of a 1024x1024 area centered around 0.0 in the seed TMCWv4 in the same version of TMCW, with biome names and world spawn marked (at 0, -224):
Yes I agree, the terrain generator was changed in beta 1.8 due to weird villages spawn.
The ideal situation would be to introduce a new terrain generator that atleast has more variation, biomes should be able to blend and should not strictly around same size (oh here you have this biome, this biome). The image above is a good example but perhaps a bit too extreme even if it looks awesome IMO.
I would rather take messed up villages than boring terrain, but best would be to change the terrain generator while not messing up the random generated structures which will certainly be a challenge and will take probably up a major update on its own.
Updates I'd like to see is "World update" (new terrain generator, and other improvements), and "Cave update" at the moment.
Sadly they removed the "customized" world type option for some reason, which could be used to change how the world was generated.
I would prefer for caves and biomes to be like they were before 1.7 as well, but I'd also like an option to make caves less interconnected, because sometimes I want to be able to stop and with caves it's really tempting to just keep on going forever if you have enough supplies.
I would prefer for caves and biomes to be like they were before 1.7 as well, but I'd also like an option to make caves less interconnected, because sometimes I want to be able to stop and with caves it's really tempting to just keep on going forever if you have enough supplies.
Rather than a simple option they should add in sliders to change the density and frequency of cave systems; in 1.6.4 these values are 40 and 15 while in 1.7+ they are 15 and 7, which result in a much larger difference than you'd expect by simply calculating the average density (39/15 vs 14/7; the size range is from 0 to n-1); for example, the following maps all have the same number of caves per chunk (slightly less for the first one):
Agree, maybe they can add it in when they reimplement custom worlds
The entire CW concept is being reimagined from the ground up. We are getting a ton more options for a ton more things (both for what we could already configure as well as what we could not), so basically if it's being recorded in a datafile somewhere it's going to be available to customize. That's...a lot of stuff, and that's not counting the whole rework of the UI.
The entire CW concept is being reimagined from the ground up. We are getting a ton more options for a ton more things (both for what we could already configure as well as what we could not), so basically if it's being recorded in a datafile somewhere it's going to be available to customize. That's...a lot of stuff, and that's not counting the whole rework of the UI.
Probably when they do a cave or terrain update they will also redo customization. Nether update already has a bit of this so maybe 1.17?
The biggest problems I have with current Minecraft (I have been playing since early 2011) is that the current terrain generation is awful.
It is way too predictable and this was "fixed" by adding new biomes which is like putting a band aid on a broken arm.
The terrain is way too predictable, once you have seen one biome then you have seen most of them. For example the beta generation (before beta 1.8) was way less predictable and had much more variety than current even though current version have MANY more biomes. The same is seen with caves, it is just forced endless caves with little variety.
My suggestion is to add a NEW improved terrain generator that doesn't have this predictable generation and is similiar to the beta generation.
Another suggestion is also a cave update (deeper caves, more blocks etc.) which has been requested a lot.
For me, currently the terrain generator and outdated caves are by far the biggest problems Minecraft currently has in my opinion. Ironically beta 1.8 the adventure update ruined adventuring. This is also one of the major reasons I quit survival, and started with PVP and doing minigames instead. One of the main aspects of survival should be exploring and adventure.
Caves did not actually change between Beta 1.7.3 and Beta 1.8 - the only change was that they fixed a bug that caused tunnels to cut off along chunk borders and added ravines and mineshafts, which did greatly increase the underground interconnectivity to the point where it is more or less infinite, especially further away from spawn (mineshafts are less common closer to the origin). However, they greatly reduced the density and size variation of cave systems in 1.7, making caves much more uniformly spread out, as well as made mineshafts much less common; the differences are quite stark when the underground interconnectivity is mapped (to make these maps I generated simulated chunks which were then copied to a larger array and then I located a suitable cave near the origin and tracked out every path that was directly interconnected to it between y=11-62, which is colored in green, with other areas in brown):
1.6.4 (I used the seed for my first world, "-123775873255737467"):
Centered around 0, 1536; if you compare these you'll notice that the uninterconnected area to the lower-left of the map above is now interconnected, and conversely the area to the upper-right is interconnected in the previous map (that is, there are large-scale regions where there are no direct interconnections for hundreds or even thousands of blocks, but eventually you can find a way across them):
Centered at 1536, 0; similar to the previous map, the uninterconnected region near the left is interconnected on the first map:
1.7-1.12.2 (the locations of caves changed in 1.13 but the overall distribution was unchanged):
I then tried recentering it at 0,64 to start in an area uninterconnected to the one above, which didn't get that far:
Likewise, this is the result of centering it at 64,64:
I then chose a point at 0,4096, which is well outside of the region where mineshafts are less common (within 1280 blocks of the origin); despite the higher number of mineshafts it still only went around 700 blocks north-south before ending:
Also, I think it is no fun at all if you can't explore the world by caving without constantly running into dead ends and the last thing that a cave update would do is make caves even less interconnected; for comparison, this is what an interconnectivity map for TMCW looks like:
This is a closeup of part of the map above, rendered normally, to give you a closer look at the underground variation that TMCW has, from a much larger range in the sizes of individual caves/tunnels/ravines to variations in how individual cave systems are structured (e.g. varying the width, curviness, length, size variation, etc of individual tunnels):
This is the same area but with only "special" caves shown (larger than vanilla or special types of cave systems), this one is at 2:1 scale for more detail:
Likewise, there is a popular mod called "Worley's Caves" which generates an infinite network, though I have no idea why it is popular because there is literally no variation whatsoever (it just makes a lattice of tunnels with little local variation in density and no rooms/chambers/ravines or other cave shapes).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I agree
But when it comes to the terrain in general (not specifically caves) is that Mojang focuses more on spamming more biomes and reworking them instead of actually focusing on a new terrain generator. Once I have seen the biome, I have seen all of them.
About caves, they are just outdated in general and needs changes like new ores, new stuff (100 more blocks til bedrock etc).
Terrain is generated randomly, there is only so much random generation it can do, if you play minecraft a lot it tends to get repetitive. The huge variety of biomes is there to mix up having just blocks and blocks full of the same old biome. Each biome tends to contain unique blocks, trees and wildlife. Obviously, if you play the game alot you tend to get bored of the biomes and want something new. The generation of the terrain is random enough to create a different world each time you create one, that is the purpose of the terrain generator. Imagine generating a new world and each time it loads the tutorial world, block for block, wouldn't be much fun. Yes, when you have played for 9 years, you tend to want new content because you are so used to the old content. They can only update so quickly. The different biomes is enough to bring a different generated world each time one is created, which is its intended purpose. Ores would be hard to add in Minecraft, hence why it has taken time for them to bring new ores like netherite. They can't just throw ores in there for example copper or tungsten as it would not only take focus off iron and other ores but essentially change an awful lot about minecraft and its recipes which would just overall ruin the game. New ores need to be planned out and implemented in a way where they won't take purpose off the ores that already exist. This was done greatly in the newest snapshots that included netherite, as it spawns in the nether and doesn't interfear with anything. Surely for a player who has played for 9 years like myself appreciates an improvement to the nether, it was a bit bare. Rather than focussing on the already decent generation of terrain, why not suggest ideas for new biomes in the nether or maybe even the end that could contain ores you'd like to see implemented? I suggest terrain forming the land so it looks better, as there is very slim chance that the terrain generator is going to recieve many more updates as the terrain is already pretty good for its randomality as it is.
To the contrary, the changes to the way biomes are laid out in 1.7 significantly reduced the local-scale variation in biomes:
The first image is an AMIDST map of the seed TMCWv4 in 1.7 and the second is a rendering of a world with the same seed in the same version of my namesake mod - the 1.7+ map is mostly plains, forests, and mountains with not a single "hot" (e.g. deserts") or snowy biome in sight (there is a small jungle and swamp, which are more different from the rest), and while a 2048x2048 block area may not seem that large it takes me around half a year to explore such an area. The last image is the spawn area from a vanilla 1.6.4 world, which includes every category of biome within a 400x400 block area. Here is a more zoomed-out map of a typical 1.7+ world, showing the vast regions which are mostly the same few biomes, plus the occasional rare variant:
For comparison, this is a map I made of TMCW, showing an absolutely staggering variety in biomes (even then it is not easy to find every biome, some may be thousands of blocks from spawn and I have still not found two biomes added to the first version despite exploring multiple level 4 maps across every world I've made with TMCW, much less every biome added since then. The area shown is 8192x8192 blocks, or 16 level 4 maps):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
The nether has a different terrain generation, I have a problem with simply ADDING biomes to the overworld because it does not fix the issue Minecraft has. That would be using a band aid for a broken arm. I agree that the terrain is random, but nowhere near random enough as it should be.
Biomes look too identical, they are usually the same size and have limited height variation. You can add hundreds of biomes and you still could not come close to the variation pre beta 1.8 gen could.
I suggested a change in biome generation code or in other words focus on a new terrain generator because this impacts gameplay a lot. Exploring, and adventure is to me very important when it comes to playing survival which is why I gave up on it. Yea, new biomes are fun but they get boring very quickly because every world is not random enough.
Yeah the default world generation is kinda boring sometimes. You know that if you go in a forest biome most of the terrain is going to be flat except of some few small hills here and now. Also swamps are really awful in my opinion.
Also in really old versions of Minecraft (pre-beta 1.8) there we're sections where sand, gravel or even stone would spawn, adding a bit more variety on the terrain. I wish Mojang could re-add that stuff.
I found an image where they combined the old generator with current biomes. Looks pretty good, except its a bit patchy and wacky in this image, but look at the variety.
Not going to lie. That image above looks really sick
Have you heard of the high elves?
GAH!
URG!
ARGH!
The only issue that I have is that you can't control terrain height variations unless biomes control them; what happens when a village generates in a mountainous desert? Ever see all those dried-up "rivers" in even relatively flat biomes like plains or hideous "beaches" splashed up a hillside? This is why TMCW has many different types of deserts, from a relatively flat vanilla desert to an extreme mountainous desert which can have peaks exceeding y=160; villages can only generate in normal desert and can't extend outside of their spawn biomes (they are more common to offset the reduction in spawn biomes; vanilla 1.10 removed the biome restriction so you can find weird stuff like villages generating in rivers and such, which wouldn't be so bad if only paths could cross rivers):
A combination of a mountainous desert and regular desert, plus their hills variations (4 separate biomes):
Another desert, with more flat areas and structures:
A desert with relatively flat terrain:
Another desert:
This is from a different world, showing how extreme a mountainous desert can get (not very common) the highest peaks are over y=160:
Even in such extreme terrain rivers still go all the way down to sea level; they only dry up in a couple biomes, which replace them with a lower level of their terrain:
The same goes for other biomes:
On the other hand, this one has a massive mountain reaching y=165. Also, to the left is a Rocky Mountains biome, which uses multiple biomes with different heights arranged in rings to create massive mountains with smooth slopes which can't be created through random height noise (either they are too small or too jagged or too random):
A Forest Mountains biome; while not intentional (it is supposed to be a mountain-type biome) half of it is relatively flat and even below sea level:
That said, I did increase the height variation of most normal biomes to be closer to the height variation of their hills counterparts in vanilla (desert and plains are actually flatter than vanilla, but they have hilly/mountainous counterparts). Of course, as seen in the examples you can find pretty much any biome next to any other biome and dozens of different biomes within a level 4 map (some might say that this makes it too easy to find every biome but there is nothing that guarantees that every biome will generate within any area; in fact, I haven't found two biomes added to the first version of TMCW across many worlds, much less many of biomes added since, though my playstyle means that it takes months of playing several hours a day to explore a single level 4 map):
A rendering of the actual world:
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Yes I agree, the terrain generator was changed in beta 1.8 due to weird villages spawn.
The ideal situation would be to introduce a new terrain generator that atleast has more variation, biomes should be able to blend and should not strictly around same size (oh here you have this biome, this biome). The image above is a good example but perhaps a bit too extreme even if it looks awesome IMO.
I would rather take messed up villages than boring terrain, but best would be to change the terrain generator while not messing up the random generated structures which will certainly be a challenge and will take probably up a major update on its own.
Updates I'd like to see is "World update" (new terrain generator, and other improvements), and "Cave update" at the moment.
Sadly they removed the "customized" world type option for some reason, which could be used to change how the world was generated.
I would prefer for caves and biomes to be like they were before 1.7 as well, but I'd also like an option to make caves less interconnected, because sometimes I want to be able to stop and with caves it's really tempting to just keep on going forever if you have enough supplies.
Rather than a simple option they should add in sliders to change the density and frequency of cave systems; in 1.6.4 these values are 40 and 15 while in 1.7+ they are 15 and 7, which result in a much larger difference than you'd expect by simply calculating the average density (39/15 vs 14/7; the size range is from 0 to n-1); for example, the following maps all have the same number of caves per chunk (slightly less for the first one):
Size 14, chance 5 (density = 2.6):
Size 40, chance 15 (density = 2.6, vanilla 1.6.4):
Size 118, chance 45 (density = 2.6):
Size 235, chance 90 (density = 2.6):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Agree, maybe they can add it in when they reimplement custom worlds.
The entire CW concept is being reimagined from the ground up. We are getting a ton more options for a ton more things (both for what we could already configure as well as what we could not), so basically if it's being recorded in a datafile somewhere it's going to be available to customize. That's...a lot of stuff, and that's not counting the whole rework of the UI.
Probably when they do a cave or terrain update they will also redo customization. Nether update already has a bit of this so maybe 1.17?