Have you ever happily finished building your base, gone off to do something else, and return to find with occupied by mobs?
I have run into this issue time and time again. Whether lighting up the area surrounding your base to your mineshaft, you will often find yourself placing fewer torches than you should. Now, the problem with lighting Minecraft is a topic for another day. I simply want to make managing it a little bit easier.
The best way to handle lighting is by pressing F3 and looking in the inconvenient "block light" area. If it is at or below 7, red alert. But this system is annoying. You have to carefully consider every block, and even then might miss a few. Plus, Mojang has already stated that F3 is considered "cheating". So we surely need a new way.
Introducing: the Alarm.
You can craft the alarm with a redstone block and an iron ingot. This is a straightforward recipe because the item isn't meant to be uber rare or whatever. Just a very useful tool for those who want to be safe.
With the alarm in hand, you can walk around the world. The alarm automatically detects the block light level of every block. No more "cheaty" F3. If it is above 7, it will stay at its current texture. But if it ever goes below 7, it will begin flashing red.
This signifies danger. Mobs can spawn in this area, and you best light it up with some torches. Once the player places down some light the alarm stops, and they may continue searching for any danger in their base. I recommend putting it in your offhand when patrolling your base.
Alarms can also be placed down as a light source themselves, mostly for fun. But they must be powered by a redstone current.
Well, that's the alarm. If you like this suggestion please feel free to comment or like. If you have any questions or concerns feel free to post and I will respond as soon as I can.
Straight to the point, yet well detailed idea. I also love the custom sprite-work you did. Dumb question, though: when placed, would it have a blocky form, or that of a plant? As in how flowers/saplings look when placed.
What's the range? Will it indicate this range somehow, assuming it's not so large as to be impractical? Will it go through walls and into spaces you can't access? This could potentially be an awesome (some might say overpowered) way to find caves, would this be an acceptable use?
Will it point you in the direction of the dark spots, or otherwise make it obvious(er) where they are? Right now it's just telling you "you missed a spot!" but it's not even saying "hotter, hotter, warmer, colder...omg, ice cold ya dummy!". Outside of an immersive application of F3 data (creative use of shaders to paint the world in a constrasting greyscale representation of lighting?), perhaps the thing could beep or blink at a faster/slower rate based on proximity to a dark spot.
What's the range? Will it indicate this range somehow, assuming it's not so large as to be impractical? Will it go through walls and into spaces you can't access? This could potentially be an awesome (some might say overpowered) way to find caves, would this be an acceptable use?
Will it point you in the direction of the dark spots, or otherwise make it obvious(er) where they are? Right now it's just telling you "you missed a spot!" but it's not even saying "hotter, hotter, warmer, colder...omg, ice cold ya dummy!". Outside of an immersive application of F3 data (creative use of shaders to paint the world in a constrasting greyscale representation of lighting?), perhaps the thing could beep or blink at a faster/slower rate based on proximity to a dark spot.
I wrote the suggestion with the intention of it only detecting the block you are currently on, however, I could see a larger radius preferred. Perhaps it could be enchanted? So:
Alert I: 3x3 block area
Alert II: 5x5 block area
Alert III: 7x7 block area
Indeed the later sizes could lead to a new way to detect caves. But they'd also make things harder to detect due to the likelihood of detecting random caves you don't care about. As such I think player choice would be the best way to go.
The alarm doesn't tell you where the bad light level is, however, it should be fairly easy to figure out. One torch will do the trick for most 7x7 areas. I don't want this to become too complicated.
Nicely simple way of carrying an important bit of vital f3 information into the game in a more immersive way.
If considering the enchanted 'ranged' models, the optimal search strategy would seem to be to carry two: one the max range variety for locating the general area of the problem, and the second the 1x1 rage for finding the actual offending block(s)
This would be most useful in 'hilly areas' where a simple geometric pattern of lights that provides complete coverage tends to break down.
Given the present ability of pillagers to spawn at Block Light level 8 (one higher than most hostiles), raising the detcetion threshhold might be wise.
With the lack of any layout/survey tools in-game, I use the f3 so much for getting builds right that I'd likely have little use for the item (other than the max range version); for players more interested in the 'RPG'/monster-hunter aspects of the game, I imaging removing the f3 clutter might be greatly appreciated. [I have it on so much, the screen actually looks 'wrong' with it off :shrug: ]
Off topics but…
RE the idea that MS/Mj sees f3 as cheating
Given the complete absense of a way to determine the biome of a specific block (eg river vs other, desert vs other, extreme hills vs other: any of which can be vital in play/planning) I reject the premise in preference to abandoning as wasteland the ambiguous blocks.
Similarly, there is precious little visual distinction between a Lvl8 (safe) and a Lvl7 (danger) block: taking the premis that Alex/Steve lives in a world where this distinction is literally life-or-death, being unable to unambiguously make this determination (when standing in a position and unmoving, whilst staring at one's feet) [ie. when 'right-there' and concentrating] seems farfetched.
There exists a mod [name not recalled] that will show the block light level of all visible blocks flagging those below some level in red; [i]THAT[/i] I would consider 'cheaty'…
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"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
I mean, I would personally rather see this as a potion effect that would highlight safe areas in blue and dangerous areas in red. But I think it works fine as this item as well.
I think it just detecting the light of the block you are on is good enough. Players can extrapolate the rest of the information from there. Say the item flashes at different speeds based on the light level (7 or below it flashes quickly, 8-12 it flashes slower the higher it gets, then at 13+ it is off). If it is flashing slowly you can look around and see the light sources. If you have torches near you on the left, front, and behind you, that is enough information to tell you that there is an area to the right that needs to be lit up more.
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I've never had an issue with lighting up an area; even when caving I place enough torches to stop nearly all mob spawns, except rarely on the odd ledge or in a recess (a light level of less than 8 but greater than 0 will not give the full spawn rate, as it is based on the light level being less than or equal to a random number from 0-7), and I place torches for visibility, not to prevent mob spawns (I've even had people tell me that the number of torches that I use is wasteful, especially considering that I have brightness on max, but I set my monitor to a proper gamma, and modded the game so a light level of 0 is actually completely dark, but that has no effect what what appears to be too dark on screen).
Knowing how light propagates is a big part of this; e.g. torches are light level 14 and drop off by one per block, so their effective range is 5 blocks for a torch every 11th block when placed at head level in a 1x2 tunnel (effective range is always 6 blocks taxicab, 5 horizontally and 1 down in this case), while at floor level they can be every 13 blocks; likewise, the optimal spacing for a 3 block wide tunnel is every 11 blocks on the floor in the middle (e.g. mineshaft corridors, where I place them under every other support, which is 1 block less than needed). I use more lighting in my bases than necessary for more uniform lighting (this is also why I don't like Moody lighting; you can see here (Moody on left and Bright on right, using my mod which makes complete darkness black, otherwise with a similar light curve as vanilla) that Moody has a much sharper drop-off from the brightest light levels).
Also, as far as F3 goes, Bedrock lets you to enable coordinates without enabling cheats, so they don't think that using coordinates is cheating, and on Java you can disable that in multiplayer with the reduced debug gamerule (IMO, the most cheaty part of F3 is the part that tells you what block you are looking at; find a cave filled with lava? You can see ores under it).
That said, a "legit" way to view information like light levels would be useful for other players, especially on Bedrock (yes, this is Java but the debug screen isn't seen as legit by all players).
Also, it should not be able to detect caves through walls if a larger radius is used, which should block the detection, much as my own cave maps only show caves if the illuminated blocks (or not for this sugguestion) have a direct path to a torch (or the player) within its effective radius (this is done by using the same algorithm that lighting and leaf decay use; for example, there are caves which are not shown because they are blocked by walls even if they have lava).
I mean, I would personally rather see this as a potion effect that would highlight safe areas in blue and dangerous areas in red. But I think it works fine as this item as well.
I think it just detecting the light of the block you are on is good enough. Players can extrapolate the rest of the information from there. Say the item flashes at different speeds based on the light level (7 or below it flashes quickly, 8-12 it flashes slower the higher it gets, then at 13+ it is off). If it is flashing slowly you can look around and see the light sources. If you have torches near you on the left, front, and behind you, that is enough information to tell you that there is an area to the right that needs to be lit up more.
I think a change in flickering may overcomplicate things, but if there is enough support for the idea I'll set up a poll.
Just a question: Would it be removed from F3 if this gets added? If not then it should. F3 has too much information that should be available in game.
I think F3 is supposed to be used to detect computer specs like frame rate, etc. So you cannot get rid of it. Maybe the expanded version could be restricted to cheats?
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I see that a portable alarm is convenient and I like the simplicity of the recipe. Personally I think it is too convenient, but I since I would have the option to simply not use it, why not =)
The concept of the alarm made me think of another change I would like to see: Make the daylight sensor just a light sensor, giving the light level as an output regardless of its placement under open sky or not.
It would have to be renamed to simply 'light sensor'. I think it would open up many interesting creative options for redstone builds depending on either low or high light levels in an area. And if the daylight sensor is too treasured to be replaced, why not just add the light sensor as simpler version, crafted in a 2x2 pattern?
Some examples of uses and reasons for it
As a fire alarm triggering water dispensers. Would it make building wood structures next to lava possible?
Both simple doors and secret doors opened by placing a torch or other light sources. Arrangements of light sources in certain pattern to set off multiple sensors would make an interesting for interesting combination locks or puzzles
It would make builds involving detection of day/night easier to make aesthetically pleasing
I think a change in flickering may overcomplicate things, but if there is enough support for the idea I'll set up a poll.
Maybe just give it 3 states of off, flickering (when close to level 7 but still above it) and constantly lit (when at level 7 or below)?
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Definite support. Redstone blocks might be too expensive, though?
Redstone is by far the most common resource when branch-mining at diamond level; it is nearly as common as coal and drops 4-5 dust per ore - on average you only need to mine 2 ore to make a block, and with Fortune III you get an average of 2 blocks every 3 ore. It isn't as common when caving; redstone is only 3-4% of all ores I mine but I still mine more than 100 ore per play session (plus 2/3 of all ores are coal, which most players probably aren't going to mine all of), and the suggestion is for an item that you only need one of:
(this was from a modded world but ore distribution is similar to vanilla 1.6.4; if anything, I've found relatively more redstone and diamond in a vanilla world; while 1.8 made ores more common, which is supported by my experience when caving for 30 minutes in a recent version, including with the current much smaller cave systems, to see how caving changed)
Redstone is by far the most common resource when branch-mining at diamond level; it is nearly as common as coal and drops 4-5 dust per ore - on average you only need to mine 2 ore to make a block, and with Fortune III you get an average of 2 blocks every 3 ore. It isn't as common when caving; redstone is only 3-4% of all ores I mine but I still mine more than 100 ore per play session (plus 2/3 of all ores are coal, which most players probably aren't going to mine all of), and the suggestion is for an item that you only need one of:
(this was from a modded world but ore distribution is similar to vanilla 1.6.4; if anything, I've found relatively more redstone and diamond in a vanilla world; while 1.8 made ores more common, which is supported by my experience when caving for 30 minutes in a recent version, including with the current much smaller cave systems, to see how caving changed)
Oh wow -- I didn't know it was that common. Yeah, this is perfect, then.
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Crazy, toys in the attic I am crazy Truly gone fishing They must have taken my marbles away
Straight to the point, yet well detailed idea. I also love the custom sprite-work you did. Dumb question, though: when placed, would it have a blocky form, or that of a plant? As in how flowers/saplings look when placed.
Discord: Ryzen_1600#7458
I’m not sure. When making the suggestion I imagined a 3D model, however, I could easily see it implemented as a flower-like item.
Either way’s fine imo, although I think 3D would look a little nicer.
What's the range? Will it indicate this range somehow, assuming it's not so large as to be impractical? Will it go through walls and into spaces you can't access? This could potentially be an awesome (some might say overpowered) way to find caves, would this be an acceptable use?
Will it point you in the direction of the dark spots, or otherwise make it obvious(er) where they are? Right now it's just telling you "you missed a spot!" but it's not even saying "hotter, hotter, warmer, colder...omg, ice cold ya dummy!". Outside of an immersive application of F3 data (creative use of shaders to paint the world in a constrasting greyscale representation of lighting?), perhaps the thing could beep or blink at a faster/slower rate based on proximity to a dark spot.
I wrote the suggestion with the intention of it only detecting the block you are currently on, however, I could see a larger radius preferred. Perhaps it could be enchanted? So:
Indeed the later sizes could lead to a new way to detect caves. But they'd also make things harder to detect due to the likelihood of detecting random caves you don't care about. As such I think player choice would be the best way to go.
The alarm doesn't tell you where the bad light level is, however, it should be fairly easy to figure out. One torch will do the trick for most 7x7 areas. I don't want this to become too complicated.
Thanks for the critique!
Support. It's a simple idea that I see no harm in implementing.
Nicely simple way of carrying an important bit of vital f3 information into the game in a more immersive way.
If considering the enchanted 'ranged' models, the optimal search strategy would seem to be to carry two: one the max range variety for locating the general area of the problem, and the second the 1x1 rage for finding the actual offending block(s)
This would be most useful in 'hilly areas' where a simple geometric pattern of lights that provides complete coverage tends to break down.
Given the present ability of pillagers to spawn at Block Light level 8 (one higher than most hostiles), raising the detcetion threshhold might be wise.
With the lack of any layout/survey tools in-game, I use the f3 so much for getting builds right that I'd likely have little use for the item (other than the max range version); for players more interested in the 'RPG'/monster-hunter aspects of the game, I imaging removing the f3 clutter might be greatly appreciated. [I have it on so much, the screen actually looks 'wrong' with it off :shrug: ]
Off topics but…
RE the idea that MS/Mj sees f3 as cheating
Given the complete absense of a way to determine the biome of a specific block (eg river vs other, desert vs other, extreme hills vs other: any of which can be vital in play/planning) I reject the premise in preference to abandoning as wasteland the ambiguous blocks.
Similarly, there is precious little visual distinction between a Lvl8 (safe) and a Lvl7 (danger) block: taking the premis that Alex/Steve lives in a world where this distinction is literally life-or-death, being unable to unambiguously make this determination (when standing in a position and unmoving, whilst staring at one's feet) [ie. when 'right-there' and concentrating] seems farfetched.
There exists a mod [name not recalled] that will show the block light level of all visible blocks flagging those below some level in red; [i]THAT[/i] I would consider 'cheaty'…
I mean, I would personally rather see this as a potion effect that would highlight safe areas in blue and dangerous areas in red. But I think it works fine as this item as well.
I think it just detecting the light of the block you are on is good enough. Players can extrapolate the rest of the information from there. Say the item flashes at different speeds based on the light level (7 or below it flashes quickly, 8-12 it flashes slower the higher it gets, then at 13+ it is off). If it is flashing slowly you can look around and see the light sources. If you have torches near you on the left, front, and behind you, that is enough information to tell you that there is an area to the right that needs to be lit up more.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
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Cool idea if we do vanilla. But if you use Forge, try out the Light Overlay mod. It is awesome.
/support
Just a question: Would it be removed from F3 if this gets added? If not then it should. F3 has too much information that should be available in game.
I've never had an issue with lighting up an area; even when caving I place enough torches to stop nearly all mob spawns, except rarely on the odd ledge or in a recess (a light level of less than 8 but greater than 0 will not give the full spawn rate, as it is based on the light level being less than or equal to a random number from 0-7), and I place torches for visibility, not to prevent mob spawns (I've even had people tell me that the number of torches that I use is wasteful, especially considering that I have brightness on max, but I set my monitor to a proper gamma, and modded the game so a light level of 0 is actually completely dark, but that has no effect what what appears to be too dark on screen).
Knowing how light propagates is a big part of this; e.g. torches are light level 14 and drop off by one per block, so their effective range is 5 blocks for a torch every 11th block when placed at head level in a 1x2 tunnel (effective range is always 6 blocks taxicab, 5 horizontally and 1 down in this case), while at floor level they can be every 13 blocks; likewise, the optimal spacing for a 3 block wide tunnel is every 11 blocks on the floor in the middle (e.g. mineshaft corridors, where I place them under every other support, which is 1 block less than needed). I use more lighting in my bases than necessary for more uniform lighting (this is also why I don't like Moody lighting; you can see here (Moody on left and Bright on right, using my mod which makes complete darkness black, otherwise with a similar light curve as vanilla) that Moody has a much sharper drop-off from the brightest light levels).
Also, as far as F3 goes, Bedrock lets you to enable coordinates without enabling cheats, so they don't think that using coordinates is cheating, and on Java you can disable that in multiplayer with the reduced debug gamerule (IMO, the most cheaty part of F3 is the part that tells you what block you are looking at; find a cave filled with lava? You can see ores under it).
That said, a "legit" way to view information like light levels would be useful for other players, especially on Bedrock (yes, this is Java but the debug screen isn't seen as legit by all players).
Also, it should not be able to detect caves through walls if a larger radius is used, which should block the detection, much as my own cave maps only show caves if the illuminated blocks (or not for this sugguestion) have a direct path to a torch (or the player) within its effective radius (this is done by using the same algorithm that lighting and leaf decay use; for example, there are caves which are not shown because they are blocked by walls even if they have lava).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I think a change in flickering may overcomplicate things, but if there is enough support for the idea I'll set up a poll.
I think F3 is supposed to be used to detect computer specs like frame rate, etc. So you cannot get rid of it. Maybe the expanded version could be restricted to cheats?
I see that a portable alarm is convenient and I like the simplicity of the recipe. Personally I think it is too convenient, but I since I would have the option to simply not use it, why not =)
The concept of the alarm made me think of another change I would like to see: Make the daylight sensor just a light sensor, giving the light level as an output regardless of its placement under open sky or not.
It would have to be renamed to simply 'light sensor'. I think it would open up many interesting creative options for redstone builds depending on either low or high light levels in an area. And if the daylight sensor is too treasured to be replaced, why not just add the light sensor as simpler version, crafted in a 2x2 pattern?
Some examples of uses and reasons for it
EDIT: Put the suggestion for a light sensor in a thread of its own: https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-java-edition/suggestions/2952078-light-sensor
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Maybe just give it 3 states of off, flickering (when close to level 7 but still above it) and constantly lit (when at level 7 or below)?
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Definite support. Redstone blocks might be too expensive, though?
Crazy, toys in the attic I am crazy
Truly gone fishing
They must have taken my marbles away
Redstone is by far the most common resource when branch-mining at diamond level; it is nearly as common as coal and drops 4-5 dust per ore - on average you only need to mine 2 ore to make a block, and with Fortune III you get an average of 2 blocks every 3 ore. It isn't as common when caving; redstone is only 3-4% of all ores I mine but I still mine more than 100 ore per play session (plus 2/3 of all ores are coal, which most players probably aren't going to mine all of), and the suggestion is for an item that you only need one of:
(this was from a modded world but ore distribution is similar to vanilla 1.6.4; if anything, I've found relatively more redstone and diamond in a vanilla world; while 1.8 made ores more common, which is supported by my experience when caving for 30 minutes in a recent version, including with the current much smaller cave systems, to see how caving changed)
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Oh wow -- I didn't know it was that common. Yeah, this is perfect, then.
Crazy, toys in the attic I am crazy
Truly gone fishing
They must have taken my marbles away
Redstone is also farmable [witch huts], and available from villager trading [clerics Lvl2].
I don't think detecting light counts as things like frame rate. It's exactly like coordinates, it's a feature that shouldn't be there yet is.
If enchantments were to be added to this item, it would have to have durability to maintain consistency.
Full Support