Some games, such as The Elder Scrolls and Fallout series, have a sneaking mechanic. Lighter armor, enemy's line of sight, and movement speed are all factors that tie into this. So, I propose that Minecraft has its own sneaking mechanic.
Why sneak when you can charge and destroy?
The introduction of a sneaking mechanic is purely for diversity. To add a new playstyle. The only "Playstyle" available currently is the Tank. The best armor that has absolutely no repercussions, (Yes that hint of saltiness was intentional) a diamond sword with the best enchantment, (Which was recently balanced in 1.9, and I am thankful.) and a bow with the best enchantment.
How will sneaking work?
The player's status of being hidden or detected depends on a few things:
-Armor equipped
-Mob's line of sight
-Invisible or not
For Sneaking to work, a mob's detection radius would have to be changed. They can still sense players who aren't sneaking in their 16-block radius. However, they can only see sneaking players 180 degrees in front of them. The player will have to have been sneaking before entering their 16 block radius, and strike them in the back in order to get a sneak attack.
Could you explain sneak attacks?
Of course I can. To simplify it, here's a chart that determines if it was a succesful sneak attack:
-Was the player sneaking?
-Was the attack on the mob's backside?
-Was the player sneaking before they entered the 16 block radius?
-Has the mob detected the player before?
Sounds pretty simple, but you're probably wondering what armor has to do with this. I'll explain:
-For this system to work, the current sneaking speed will have to be increased to slightly slower than walking. (About 4 m/s) Different armor pieces will slow the speed of sneaking. (And walking, but not as extreme.)
-A full set of leather would result in slight reduction (3.9 m/s)
-A full set of chain would result in not much reduction. (3.5 m/s)
-A full set of gold would result in some reduction. (3 m/s)
-A full set of iron would result in a good amount of reduction. (2.5 m/s)
-A full set of diamond would land the player at the usual sneaking speed. (1.31 m/s)
Hold on, so chain will actually have a use now?Yeah, pretty cool right? Might have to actually spend some time with those villagers now, huh?
What if you're invisible?
The answer to this question is also fairly simple. If a sneaking player is under the effects of invisiblity, the mob's detection radius will not be able to sense them from behind, regardless if sneaking or not. However, if they are sneaking, the mob will only be able to detect them in a 90 degree angle directly in front of them. (They won't detect them in their peripheral vision.)
So, is the sneak stab for all weapons?
Glad you asked, for it is not. Some weapons have a different kind of critical hit, the classic "jump slash" method. A new weapon, the dagger, could be introduced that does pretty weak damage regularly, to make things simple I'll just say half of the damage of a sword made out of the same material. (A diamond dagger does half as much as a diamond sword.) But, the dagger can also be swung 2x faster than a sword of the same material. However, if the player is sneaking, and is hidden, and attacks with the dagger, you would get a special critical hit called a "sneak attack" that does 3x damage. Additionally, a new enchantment can be introduced that increases damage values of critical hits. Shadowstrike, as a possible name.
Shadowstrike? That sounds cool. What is it?
Wow. You are just chocked full of great questions that serve as a convenient transition between each of my topics and cleverly introduces exactly what I wanted to talk about, aren't you? Well, Shadowstrike is an enchantment that increases the damage of sneak attacks by 15% per level. For example:
Shadowstrike I: Sneak attacks do 15% more damage
Shadowstrike II: Sneak attacks do 30% more damage
Shadowstrike III: Sneak attacks do 45% more damage
Shadowstrike IV: Sneak attacks do 60% more damage
Well, that's all I have to say. If you have anymore convenient questions, please leave a reply. Thanks for reading, it means a lot. Don't forget to upvote if you like the idea. Thanks.
EDIT: Added explanations for critical hits.
EDIT: Explained daggers a bit more.
EDIT: Explained Invisibility Potions
EDIT: Removed anything with bows. Sneaking has no effect on bows now.
EDIT: Completely changed how mob detection works. The system is more focused on speed now.
EDIT: Removed Nimble enchantment, as swiftness potions already serve this purpose.
You can't simply adopt the sneaking style from Skyrim. Minecraft and Skyrim are completely different things.
Weight points would not help the Minecraft players at all. Weighing down means each item gets a realistic value, and some items, such as diamond blocks, would weigh WAY too much to carry, even if it was just one block.
Sneaking is NOT a PvP mechanic: it is just a player mechanic. Used to cling to edges. For this, sneaking is unique to Minecraft and Minecraft alone.
I like this idea. Perhaps it should have a +25% of getting a critical hit on an opponent?
Support
Well, maybe the percentage could vary depending on weapon used, but you're right, it shouldn't be a 100% Just being honest, I'm basing this sytem on Skyrim's sneaking system. And in skyrim, sneak attack damage bonuses happened usually everytime, as long as you're hidden. However, skyrim has different levels of hidden, depending on how closed the eye symbol was, and that affected your critical hit chance, so maybe this sneaking system could use a similar icon. A pixelated eye symbol would appear either above the cursor, or the left of the HUD. (Basically a mirror of the 1.9 swing recharge meter.) The player could be 100% hidden, 75% hidden, and on and on. The percentage of hiding is the chance of a critical hit. How about that?
The sneak mechanic is already implemented, but there's always room for improvement!
Sneaking decreases your movement speed from 4.317 m/s to 1.31 m/s but gives you several different effects, such as no footsteps, an invisible name tag at a certain distance (a darker one closer), and a hostile mob's detection range drops by 20%. There is already a way to increase the movement speed by sneaking diagonally, but it only gives a measly 0.392% increase, so I find your proposed weight system to be interesting.
For it to have the dynamic you're looking for in PvP though, the weight system's affect on sneaking would need to be changed. Instead of successfully sneaking, or making it harder to stay "hidden", it would have to affect solely the movement speed of sneaking, depending on the player's weight points. The more weight points, the slower the player will move in sneak mode (escalated from the base 1% decrease while not in sneak mode), and less weight points will result in faster movement while sneaking (but never surpassing the base walking speed of 4.317m/s).
I like the idea of adding daggers, critical hits only to the back of a target, but the bow already automatically hits critically when fully drawn. A sneaking bowman would be much too overpowered anyway. Auto-crits on semi-drawn arrows? Oh my.
In conclusion I find parts of your suggestion to be quite promising, they only need more thought. Potential Support.
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“You have made a place in my heart where I thought there was no room for anything else. You have made flowers grow where I cultivated dust and stones." - al'Lan Mandragoran
"Sene sovya caba'donde ain dovienya" - Matrim Cauthon
The only stealth sneaking can currently offer is a hidden nametag, but that's not very helpful when it comes to mobs, so +1 from me.
Thanks, I just feel like sneaking in minecraft has so much more potential. Also, another thing I briefly mentioned in the thread was armor weight. I think that would make PvP more interesting.
You can't simply adopt the sneaking style from Skyrim. Minecraft and Skyrim are completely different things.
Weight points would not help the Minecraft players at all. Weighing down means each item gets a realistic value, and some items, such as diamond blocks, would weigh WAY too much to carry, even if it was just one block.
Sneaking is NOT a PvP mechanic: it is just a player mechanic. Used to cling to edges. For this, sneaking is unique to Minecraft and Minecraft alone.
Weight points are for armor only, and they are only there to even things out in PVP. I explained this in the original thread. It's sole purpose is to calculate the chance of successfully staying hidden, and to make leather and chainmail armor a viable choice for PVP situations.
The sneak mechanic is already implemented, but there's always room for improvement!
Sneaking decreases your movement speed from 4.317 m/s to 1.31 m/s but gives you several different effects, such as no footsteps, an invisible name tag at a certain distance (a darker one closer), and a hostile mob's detection range drops by 20%. There is already a way to increase the movement speed by sneaking diagonally, but it only gives a measly 0.392% increase, so I find your proposed weight system to be interesting.
For it to have the dynamic you're looking for in PvP though, the weight system's affect on sneaking would need to be changed. Instead of successfully sneaking, or making it harder to stay "hidden", it would have to affect solely the movement speed of sneaking, depending on the player's weight points. The more weight points, the slower the player will move in sneak mode (escalated from the base 1% decrease while not in sneak mode), and less weight points will result in faster movement while sneaking (but never surpassing the base walking speed of 4.317m/s).
I like the idea of adding daggers, critical hits only to the back of a target, but the bow already automatically hits critically when fully drawn. A sneaking bowman would be much too overpowered anyway. Auto-crits on semi-drawn arrows? Oh my.
In conclusion I find parts of your suggestion to be quite promising, they only need more thought. Potential Support.
Precisely, my suggestion is for the improvement of Sneaking, not for the addition of it.
When I mentioned weight points slowing down a player, I was talking about general walk and sprinting speeds, as well as sneaking speeds. and the slowing effects of heavier armors is barely noticeable. A full set of Diamond armor would only result in an 8% speed reduction.
About sneaking's current effects, the 20% detection range reduction is somewhat useless. My proposed sneaking mechanic would provide for a way to achieve a powerful sneak attack, and also decrease the detection range even further. Maybe to 75% of the mob's sneaking range, depending on the player's equipped armor and possible enchantments.
Ah, the bows! I must've forgot to add that with the addition of this new sneaking mechanic, the fully drawn critical hit mechanic must be removed. Therefore, the only way to achieve critical hits with a bow would be to be sneaking, and out of the mob's detection radius. I don't see this being very overpowered. I try very hard to balance all of my suggestions instead of throwing out raw ideas.
Thank you for your feedback.
Why would you need hiding from mobs? They are such nubs... And MP already has shifting which gives by far enough protection...
Hiding from mobs isn't to avoid them, because as you have stated, they are fairly easy to deal with. Hiding from mobs is to provide a way to deal a more powerful "sneak attack" from far away. Or, up close even.
Shifting? What is that? Could you explain?
Hiding from mobs isn't to avoid them, because as you have stated, they are fairly easy to deal with. Correct Hiding from mobs is to provide a way to deal a more powerful "sneak attack" from far away. Or, up close even. Of course, they aren't easy to deal with or anything (Cough* Cough* Hypocrite Cough* Cough* Cough*). We need something extra to kill the things that are easy to deal with...
Shifting? What is that? Could you explain? Sneaking as it is. *Facepalm*
It's almost as if you read the Thread Title, and immediately posted. Look, sneak attacks are there to introduce a different playstyle. More of a sneaky character would rather deal with mobs from a far location, without even being discovered. If you payed attention to the part where I said armor would affect chances of being hidden, then you would know that if you chose the route of a defensive melee character would not be capable of aforementioned sneak attacks, or, at least, the chances of being successful would be very slim. You see? It's all about playstyle. I said they were easy to deal with as a heavily armored character. This mechanic is to make them easy to deal with as a light armored character, so I'm not a hypocrite. Pardon me for not recognizing your use of the word, "shifting", as I am not familiar with this term being used to describe this action. Now, in response to your original reply, how exactly does this provide "by far enough protection"?
It's almost as if you read the Thread Title, and immediately posted. Look, sneak attacks are there to introduce a different playstyle. More of a sneaky character would rather deal with mobs from a far location, without even being discovered. If you payed attention to the part where I said armor would affect chances of being hidden, then you would know that if you chose the route of a defensive melee character would not be capable of aforementioned sneak attacks, or, at least, the chances of being successful would be very slim. You see? It's all about playstyle. I said they were easy to deal with as a heavily armored character. This mechanic is to make them easy to deal with as a light armored character, so I'm not a hypocrite. Pardon me for not recognizing your use of the word, "shifting", as I am not familiar with this term being used to describe this action. Now, in response to your original reply, how exactly does this provide "by far enough protection"?
This is just stupid. Why do we need this? It means that the people with worse armor who joined 5 minutes ago will be in the same boat as the guys who have spent their lives on the server... Basically you are suggesting that the noobs get a chance.
Precisely, my suggestion is for the improvement of Sneaking, not for the addition of it.
When I mentioned weight points slowing down a player, I was talking about general walk and sprinting speeds, as well as sneaking speeds. and the slowing effects of heavier armors is barely noticeable. A full set of Diamond armor would only result in an 8% speed reduction.
About sneaking's current effects, the 20% detection range reduction is somewhat useless. My proposed sneaking mechanic would provide for a way to achieve a powerful sneak attack, and also decrease the detection range even further. Maybe to 75% of the mob's sneaking range, depending on the player's equipped armor and possible enchantments.
Ah, the bows! I must've forgot to add that with the addition of this new sneaking mechanic, the fully drawn critical hit mechanic must be removed. Therefore, the only way to achieve critical hits with a bow would be to be sneaking, and out of the mob's detection radius. I don't see this being very overpowered. I try very hard to balance all of my suggestions instead of throwing out raw ideas.
Thank you for your feedback.
Ahh, alright. It wasn't too clear to me whether or not you knew. As you were sayings things like successfully sneak, stay hidden, not much to do with movement speed besides impairment. So I typed my post as if you were not aware of sneaking being within the game already. The issue with the current weight system is that no matter what, there is no bonuses to movement speed, only hindering.
While I understand the concept, it needs to be reworked for it to be plausible with sneak's current utilities as well as this new one. A person in full diamond armor, wouldn't be able to sneak at all, they'd be neglected a major mechanic and it'd be given to others for simply having a different play-style. The reason is because with your current system, while I'm not sure what "120% harder to sneak" means, I assume that it refers to movement speed and in turn would drop 1.31 m/s to -1.57 m/s... which is not realistic.
As for the bow, you want Mojang to remove a mechanic to add yours? It would still be overpowered though. Instead of having to draw back your bow fully for a critical, all you'd have to do is press shift and draw for distance required. Which would also ruin bows for everyone with a play-style other than utilizing sneaking, and wouldn't require players to take the time to draw it back fully for the extra damage. All you'd have to do is sacrifice your movement speed for sneaking's speed, for a critical hit each time (without the need of drawing).
I love the idea of this new type of play-style, utilizing sneak, and in turn making leather and chain armor useful, but I believe bows should be left out of it. I don't see anyway for it to be incorporated in a practical way, that would be better than the way the bow works currently.
I also don't believe the diamond dagger with a sneaking backstab should do the equivalent of 2 diamond sword hits. A player has 10 hearts, and a diamond sword deals 4 hearts of damage, which would mean that a backstab with a diamond dagger would leave a player at 4 hearts. With your proposed enchantment, this would mean that you could literally one shot someone. Even with Shadowstrike II, you'd still overkill someone with one shot by a little under half a heart. I think the element of surprise and simply getting that first hit in is reward enough, without needing the ridiculous damage that it currently has.
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“You have made a place in my heart where I thought there was no room for anything else. You have made flowers grow where I cultivated dust and stones." - al'Lan Mandragoran
"Sene sovya caba'donde ain dovienya" - Matrim Cauthon
This is just stupid. Why do we need this? It means that the people with worse armor who joined 5 minutes ago will be in the same boat as the guys who have spent their lives on the server... Basically you are suggesting that the noobs get a chance.
Nothing is "needed", this is the suggestion part of these forums, and he is suggesting an idea he had.
People who joined 5 minutes ago, will be no where near the same boat as others who have "spent their lives on the server". Years of experience won't be trumped by a sneaking mechanic, not to mention that diamond isn't difficult to obtain for a player with that experience.
Basically you are implying that you are scared of said noobs. Personally, if a noob can sneak up on me and get a backstab in, they deserve all my
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“You have made a place in my heart where I thought there was no room for anything else. You have made flowers grow where I cultivated dust and stones." - al'Lan Mandragoran
"Sene sovya caba'donde ain dovienya" - Matrim Cauthon
This is just stupid. Why do we need this? It means that the people with worse armor who joined 5 minutes ago will be in the same boat as the guys who have spent their lives on the server... Basically you are suggesting that the noobs get a chance. In order to get chain armor, it requires commitment with villagers, or getting lucky drops from mobs wearing chainmail armor. This is not easy to do, so chain's benefits are very justified. Also, you seem to have the belief that one's armor decides all of their attack power. What about weapons? Surely older playes will have better weapons than newly spawned players, so they still will be on different power levels. And you know what? What's wrong with giving newly spawned players a chance?
And honestly, how many times have you used leather, gold or even chain armour pvping? This would be awesome.
Could gold armour potentially have more of a buff in some way here? Given that one hit can damage your gold armour to the point of no return, this sneak thing could pump it up?
Ahh, alright. It wasn't too clear to me whether or not you knew. As you were sayings things like successfully sneak, stay hidden, not much to do with movement speed besides impairment. So I typed my post as if you were not aware of sneaking being within the game already.
The issue with the current weight system is that no matter what, there is no bonuses to movement speed, only hindering.
While I understand the concept, it needs to be reworked for it to be plausible with sneak's current utilities as well as this new one. A person in full diamond armor, wouldn't be able to sneak at all, they'd be neglected a major mechanic and it'd be given to others for simply having a different play-style. The reason is because with your current system, while I'm not sure what "120% harder to sneak" means, I assume that it refers to movement speed and in turn would drop 1.31 m/s to -1.57 m/s... which is not realistic. 120% is referring to the player's ability to stay hidden from mobs. It has nothing to do with any other effects of sneaking. They can still cling to ladders, and become unable to walk off blocks. It's just a difficult idea to communicate through text. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
As for the bow, you want Mojang to remove a mechanic to add yours? It wouldn't be the first time they removed a mechanic. It would still be overpowered though. Instead of having to draw back your bow fully for a critical, all you'd have to do is press shift and draw for distance required. They must be hidden from the target though, which for players, would be a much larger range than mobs. This distance would create a situation where full drawback would be much easier. Which would also ruin bows for everyone with a play-style other than utilizing sneaking, and wouldn't require players to take the time to draw it back fully for the extra damage. All you'd have to do is sacrifice your movement speed for sneaking's speed, for a critical hit each time (without the need of drawing). I do see what you're saying, though. How about, if the player is sneaking, they lose the critical hit for a full drawback?
I love the idea of this new type of play-style, utilizing sneak, and in turn making leather and chain armor useful, but I believe bows should be left out of it. I don't see anyway for it to be incorporated in a practical way, that would be better than the way the bow works currently. Are you suggesting that they follow the same rules as the other weapons, where the chance of a sneak bonus is equivalent to how hidden you are?
I also don't believe the diamond dagger with a sneaking backstab should do the equivalent of 2 diamond sword hits. A player has 10 hearts, and a diamond sword deals 4 hearts of damage, which would mean that a backstab with a diamond dagger would leave a player at 4 hearts. With your proposed enchantment, this would mean that you could literally one shot someone. Even with Shadowstrike II, you'd still overkill someone with one shot by a little under half a heart. I think the element of surprise and simply getting that first hit in is reward enough, without needing the ridiculous damage that it currently has. Fair enough, but consider just how difficult it would be to get that backstab in. The other player would have to be in their inventory or something. And again with hostile mobs, it'd be even harder. In fact, I think their detection radius is a circular shape, rather than being equal to a realistic field of vision. Also, consider this. The target player is wearing diamond armor and is decked out in all sorts of enchantments. How much damage would it take to kill them now? Also, being the weaker armored player, if that initial backstab doesn't do enough damage, they'll turn around and take you down with their melee weapon.
I just have to thank you for responding logically, and with an open mind. It's hard to have intelligent conversations over the internet.
And honestly, how many times have you used leather, gold or even chain armour pvping? This would be awesome. I'm glad you think so.
Could gold armour potentially have more of a buff in some way here? Given that one hit can damage your gold armour to the point of no return, this sneak thing could pump it up? Well, in the chart, it's portrayed as a medium armor. Sort of a best of both worlds option. Not to stealthy, not to strong, but it can perform both roles fairly well. Also, you have to remember that gold weapons and armor already has a bonus to its enchantability. Whether that means it can get the same enchants for less cost, or that it is capable of getting higher-level enchantments for the same cost, I'm not sure. But it definitely is one of its traits.
I understand now, 120% as in -120% hidden, a hostile mob will see you.
My comments were mostly focused around player vs player.
While I think that the 0% hidden to 100% hidden scale would be neat, there are some technicalities. If a hostile mob's detection range is a certain radius surrounding them, as soon as you walk in it, they'd detect you. Or perhaps depending on the percentage you're at, they'd have that minus 100% of a chance to detect you (If you were at 90%, they'd have a 10% chance). But if the weight point system works as I believe, then even with chain armor on, they'd have a base 70% chance of not detecting you (assuming the detection works as I described) without any other added factors, which would mean almost every 1/3rd time of trying to backstab in chain mail, you'd be caught.
I think it would be much more plausible to stay with the either 100% visible or 100% hidden though, and make it so that a direct backstab is an automatic critical hit, instead of being dependent on the percentage of your current sneak. While this may completely change it around, and require a reworking of the weight point system, it could focus more on movement speed which in turn would require players to use line of sight and terrain to their advantage. While cutting down on chances, you'd increase the required skill to achieve these attacks in theory.
It wouldn't be, but they'd be removing a mechanic from a weapon to simply add it somewhere else. Another thing which breaks the power balance of the bow being incorporated into this suggestion is that there'd be absolutely no point of adding the dagger. It would be much easier to simply use your bow and always stay hidden from a distance, instead of taking the chance at going up for a backstab, as the bow is the most powerful weapon in the game for now. I was suggesting that the bow be removed from the suggestion altogether, and the suggestion focus mainly on melee oriented combat.
Forgive me, I completely forgot to factor in armor rating. That completely went over my head. Assuming that the player hit with a backstab from the diamond dagger that is enchanted with Shadowstrike II is in full diamond armor (10 armor, 80% dmg reduction), the total damage would be 2.08 hearts. With full iron, the total damage would be 4.16 hearts. With Shadowstrike IV, the damage would scale up to 2.48 for diamond and 4.96 for iron. Considering the attack cooldown feature that'll be implemented in 1.9, this may be plausible damage, people would most likely swap to a diamond sword to finish off their opponent on an equal playing field (not really because, backstabbed!) since the dagger is at a disadvantage dmg wise without sneak, unless the attack cooldown was shorter than the sword or your timing has to be immaculate.
Of course! You are welcome.
A critic's job is critiquing after all, not simply stating their opinion and being done with it (whether for or against).
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“You have made a place in my heart where I thought there was no room for anything else. You have made flowers grow where I cultivated dust and stones." - al'Lan Mandragoran
"Sene sovya caba'donde ain dovienya" - Matrim Cauthon
Some games, such as The Elder Scrolls and Fallout series, have a sneaking mechanic. Lighter armor, enemy's line of sight, and movement speed are all factors that tie into this. So, I propose that Minecraft has its own sneaking mechanic.
For Sneaking to work, a mob's detection radius would have to be changed. They can still sense players who aren't sneaking in their 16-block radius. However, they can only see sneaking players 180 degrees in front of them. The player will have to have been sneaking before entering their 16 block radius, and strike them in the back in order to get a sneak attack.
What if you're invisible?
The answer to this question is also fairly simple. If a sneaking player is under the effects of invisiblity, the mob's detection radius will not be able to sense them from behind, regardless if sneaking or not. However, if they are sneaking, the mob will only be able to detect them in a 90 degree angle directly in front of them. (They won't detect them in their peripheral vision.)
The only stealth sneaking can currently offer is a hidden nametag, but that's not very helpful when it comes to mobs, so +1 from me.
You can't simply adopt the sneaking style from Skyrim. Minecraft and Skyrim are completely different things.
Weight points would not help the Minecraft players at all. Weighing down means each item gets a realistic value, and some items, such as diamond blocks, would weigh WAY too much to carry, even if it was just one block.
Sneaking is NOT a PvP mechanic: it is just a player mechanic. Used to cling to edges. For this, sneaking is unique to Minecraft and Minecraft alone.
NULL
Well, maybe the percentage could vary depending on weapon used, but you're right, it shouldn't be a 100% Just being honest, I'm basing this sytem on Skyrim's sneaking system. And in skyrim, sneak attack damage bonuses happened usually everytime, as long as you're hidden. However, skyrim has different levels of hidden, depending on how closed the eye symbol was, and that affected your critical hit chance, so maybe this sneaking system could use a similar icon. A pixelated eye symbol would appear either above the cursor, or the left of the HUD. (Basically a mirror of the 1.9 swing recharge meter.) The player could be 100% hidden, 75% hidden, and on and on. The percentage of hiding is the chance of a critical hit. How about that?
The sneak mechanic is already implemented, but there's always room for improvement!
Sneaking decreases your movement speed from 4.317 m/s to 1.31 m/s but gives you several different effects, such as no footsteps, an invisible name tag at a certain distance (a darker one closer), and a hostile mob's detection range drops by 20%. There is already a way to increase the movement speed by sneaking diagonally, but it only gives a measly 0.392% increase, so I find your proposed weight system to be interesting.
For it to have the dynamic you're looking for in PvP though, the weight system's affect on sneaking would need to be changed. Instead of successfully sneaking, or making it harder to stay "hidden", it would have to affect solely the movement speed of sneaking, depending on the player's weight points. The more weight points, the slower the player will move in sneak mode (escalated from the base 1% decrease while not in sneak mode), and less weight points will result in faster movement while sneaking (but never surpassing the base walking speed of 4.317m/s).
I like the idea of adding daggers, critical hits only to the back of a target, but the bow already automatically hits critically when fully drawn. A sneaking bowman would be much too overpowered anyway. Auto-crits on semi-drawn arrows? Oh my.
In conclusion I find parts of your suggestion to be quite promising, they only need more thought.
Potential Support.
Thanks, I just feel like sneaking in minecraft has so much more potential. Also, another thing I briefly mentioned in the thread was armor weight. I think that would make PvP more interesting.
Weight points are for armor only, and they are only there to even things out in PVP. I explained this in the original thread. It's sole purpose is to calculate the chance of successfully staying hidden, and to make leather and chainmail armor a viable choice for PVP situations.
No support.
Why would you need hiding from mobs? They are such nubs... And MP already has shifting which gives by far enough protection...
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5 Years on Minecraftforum. Over 9 on minecraft itself. Mod developer for 4 years.
Precisely, my suggestion is for the improvement of Sneaking, not for the addition of it.
When I mentioned weight points slowing down a player, I was talking about general walk and sprinting speeds, as well as sneaking speeds. and the slowing effects of heavier armors is barely noticeable. A full set of Diamond armor would only result in an 8% speed reduction.
About sneaking's current effects, the 20% detection range reduction is somewhat useless. My proposed sneaking mechanic would provide for a way to achieve a powerful sneak attack, and also decrease the detection range even further. Maybe to 75% of the mob's sneaking range, depending on the player's equipped armor and possible enchantments.
Ah, the bows! I must've forgot to add that with the addition of this new sneaking mechanic, the fully drawn critical hit mechanic must be removed. Therefore, the only way to achieve critical hits with a bow would be to be sneaking, and out of the mob's detection radius. I don't see this being very overpowered. I try very hard to balance all of my suggestions instead of throwing out raw ideas.
Thank you for your feedback.
Hiding from mobs isn't to avoid them, because as you have stated, they are fairly easy to deal with. Hiding from mobs is to provide a way to deal a more powerful "sneak attack" from far away. Or, up close even.
Shifting? What is that? Could you explain?
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5 Years on Minecraftforum. Over 9 on minecraft itself. Mod developer for 4 years.
To bobatheboss111
It's almost as if you read the Thread Title, and immediately posted. Look, sneak attacks are there to introduce a different playstyle. More of a sneaky character would rather deal with mobs from a far location, without even being discovered. If you payed attention to the part where I said armor would affect chances of being hidden, then you would know that if you chose the route of a defensive melee character would not be capable of aforementioned sneak attacks, or, at least, the chances of being successful would be very slim. You see? It's all about playstyle. I said they were easy to deal with as a heavily armored character. This mechanic is to make them easy to deal with as a light armored character, so I'm not a hypocrite. Pardon me for not recognizing your use of the word, "shifting", as I am not familiar with this term being used to describe this action. Now, in response to your original reply, how exactly does this provide "by far enough protection"?
This is just stupid. Why do we need this? It means that the people with worse armor who joined 5 minutes ago will be in the same boat as the guys who have spent their lives on the server... Basically you are suggesting that the noobs get a chance.
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5 Years on Minecraftforum. Over 9 on minecraft itself. Mod developer for 4 years.
Ahh, alright. It wasn't too clear to me whether or not you knew. As you were sayings things like successfully sneak, stay hidden, not much to do with movement speed besides impairment. So I typed my post as if you were not aware of sneaking being within the game already. The issue with the current weight system is that no matter what, there is no bonuses to movement speed, only hindering.
While I understand the concept, it needs to be reworked for it to be plausible with sneak's current utilities as well as this new one. A person in full diamond armor, wouldn't be able to sneak at all, they'd be neglected a major mechanic and it'd be given to others for simply having a different play-style. The reason is because with your current system, while I'm not sure what "120% harder to sneak" means, I assume that it refers to movement speed and in turn would drop 1.31 m/s to -1.57 m/s... which is not realistic.
As for the bow, you want Mojang to remove a mechanic to add yours? It would still be overpowered though. Instead of having to draw back your bow fully for a critical, all you'd have to do is press shift and draw for distance required. Which would also ruin bows for everyone with a play-style other than utilizing sneaking, and wouldn't require players to take the time to draw it back fully for the extra damage. All you'd have to do is sacrifice your movement speed for sneaking's speed, for a critical hit each time (without the need of drawing).
I love the idea of this new type of play-style, utilizing sneak, and in turn making leather and chain armor useful, but I believe bows should be left out of it. I don't see anyway for it to be incorporated in a practical way, that would be better than the way the bow works currently.
I also don't believe the diamond dagger with a sneaking backstab should do the equivalent of 2 diamond sword hits. A player has 10 hearts, and a diamond sword deals 4 hearts of damage, which would mean that a backstab with a diamond dagger would leave a player at 4 hearts. With your proposed enchantment, this would mean that you could literally one shot someone. Even with Shadowstrike II, you'd still overkill someone with one shot by a little under half a heart. I think the element of surprise and simply getting that first hit in is reward enough, without needing the ridiculous damage that it currently has.
Nothing is "needed", this is the suggestion part of these forums, and he is suggesting an idea he had.
People who joined 5 minutes ago, will be no where near the same boat as others who have "spent their lives on the server". Years of experience won't be trumped by a sneaking mechanic, not to mention that diamond isn't difficult to obtain for a player with that experience.
Basically you are implying that you are scared of said noobs. Personally, if a noob can sneak up on me and get a backstab in, they deserve all my
And honestly, how many times have you used leather, gold or even chain armour pvping? This would be awesome.
Could gold armour potentially have more of a buff in some way here? Given that one hit can damage your gold armour to the point of no return, this sneak thing could pump it up?
I just have to thank you for responding logically, and with an open mind. It's hard to have intelligent conversations over the internet.
I understand now, 120% as in -120% hidden, a hostile mob will see you.
My comments were mostly focused around player vs player.
While I think that the 0% hidden to 100% hidden scale would be neat, there are some technicalities. If a hostile mob's detection range is a certain radius surrounding them, as soon as you walk in it, they'd detect you. Or perhaps depending on the percentage you're at, they'd have that minus 100% of a chance to detect you (If you were at 90%, they'd have a 10% chance). But if the weight point system works as I believe, then even with chain armor on, they'd have a base 70% chance of not detecting you (assuming the detection works as I described) without any other added factors, which would mean almost every 1/3rd time of trying to backstab in chain mail, you'd be caught.
I think it would be much more plausible to stay with the either 100% visible or 100% hidden though, and make it so that a direct backstab is an automatic critical hit, instead of being dependent on the percentage of your current sneak. While this may completely change it around, and require a reworking of the weight point system, it could focus more on movement speed which in turn would require players to use line of sight and terrain to their advantage. While cutting down on chances, you'd increase the required skill to achieve these attacks in theory.
It wouldn't be, but they'd be removing a mechanic from a weapon to simply add it somewhere else. Another thing which breaks the power balance of the bow being incorporated into this suggestion is that there'd be absolutely no point of adding the dagger. It would be much easier to simply use your bow and always stay hidden from a distance, instead of taking the chance at going up for a backstab, as the bow is the most powerful weapon in the game for now. I was suggesting that the bow be removed from the suggestion altogether, and the suggestion focus mainly on melee oriented combat.
Forgive me, I completely forgot to factor in armor rating. That completely went over my head. Assuming that the player hit with a backstab from the diamond dagger that is enchanted with Shadowstrike II is in full diamond armor (10 armor, 80% dmg reduction), the total damage would be 2.08 hearts. With full iron, the total damage would be 4.16 hearts. With Shadowstrike IV, the damage would scale up to 2.48 for diamond and 4.96 for iron. Considering the attack cooldown feature that'll be implemented in 1.9, this may be plausible damage, people would most likely swap to a diamond sword to finish off their opponent on an equal playing field (not really because, backstabbed!) since the dagger is at a disadvantage dmg wise without sneak, unless the attack cooldown was shorter than the sword or your timing has to be immaculate.
Of course! You are welcome.
A critic's job is critiquing after all, not simply stating their opinion and being done with it (whether for or against).