How come nobody ever says anything about buttons? One whole block to produce 1 button?! That's like 99% waste! Should at least get 9 sawdust out of that, which we could then combine into a new flooring block (or maybe use the snow layer model instead of the block model).
Look at chests, crafting tables, beds, furnaces, doors, etc. etc. etc. ! Or look at a PAPER MAP that needs not only 8 full pages of paper but also to have it's very own metallic compass "inside it". Those recipes ALL require WAY more input material that their output. Some by a factor of 8 !
Speaking of crafting tables, they actually don't need more resources to make. Why? One log = 4 planks; 4 planks = 1 crafting table. So how do you magically get 4 planks from one log, which each have the same or better behavior (hardness, volume, smelting time - and 50% more blast resistance; planks are clearly not "hollow" inside)? Uh-oh...
Yeah, make a log only give you 1 plank - then we'll see whether the idea of balanced crafting recipes is good! That would obliterate any savings by making stairs require only half the materials - you'd need twice as many logs to start with as we currently do. Planks are also illogical in that a log smelts 1.5 items - but the same log smelts 6 when turned into planks - or 8 when turned into charcoal - by that logic you should need at least 6 logs to make one charcoal (which is also partially burnt, so should lose some of its mass/smelting efficiency).
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Slabs craft 3 blocks to 6 slabs, it should be somewhat similar with stairs. Of course with slabs, regardless of the material it's just the base block cut in half. Simple and wasteless.
The technique for crafting stairs doesn't work the same for most materials. In which, my suggestion is that the 6 blocks used to make stairs should yield 6 stair blocks instead of 8. Where the chunk excised from the individual blocks to make the stairs is damaged beyond reuse.
I absolutely HATE the way they are ripping you off... You only get FOUR stairs for SIX input blocks? That is the dumbest recipe ever, and it needs to be changed. What this suggestion is saying is give you a fair amount of stairs. DONE.
Instant full support
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't even play Minecraft much anymore yet here I am on the Minecraft forums for some reason...
Except that the blocks you are describing are functional blocks that require high costs in order to provide balance to the game, while the original poster is talking about purely physical, decorative blocks that should be more readily available to survival players.
"Gameplay trumps realism any time of the day, every day."
So it's good gameplay that players trying to make stairs or slanted stairs have to use piles and piles of resources instead of reasonable scaling the cost down?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why Minecraft mobs should NEVER have multiple attacks:
- No other PC mobs do. - Mob behaviour is intended to be simple.
Why you should NOT name new "special ability" weapons as "XXX Swords":
- No other swords have special abilities. - Make a new kind of weapon.
Speaking of crafting tables, they actually don't need more resources to make. Why? One log = 4 planks; 4 planks = 1 crafting table. So how do you magically get 4 planks from one log, which each have the same or better behavior (hardness, volume, smelting time - and 50% more blast resistance; planks are clearly not "hollow" inside)? Uh-oh...
Yeah, make a log only give you 1 plank - then we'll see whether the idea of balanced crafting recipes is good! That would obliterate any savings by making stairs require only half the materials - you'd need twice as many logs to start with as we currently do. Planks are also illogical in that a log smelts 1.5 items - but the same log smelts 6 when turned into planks - or 8 when turned into charcoal - by that logic you should need at least 6 logs to make one charcoal (which is also partially burnt, so should lose some of its mass/smelting efficiency).
See what I'm getting at?
Exactly !!!
Many posters here say they hate when they feel getting ripped off by a factor of 2 but keep silent when they "win" by even bigger factors. I call that kind of attitude one sided (hypocrit might be a bit too strong and anyway to really be an hypocrit onehas to be fully conscious of the side of the coin he is ignoring).
And a factor of 2 is the "ideal best only" interpretation here. More reasonably you could see the stairs as a block out of which you then extract 1/4 of it, which then becomes an unusable leftover. In that case, the recipe, if giving "full stairs" back, and if it was "simple block" recipe, would then more reasonably yield 6, not 8, thus a "loss" of only a factor of 33% (from an expected 6 down to the 4 we get), not a loss of 50% (from an inflated pink glasses fairy ideal zero-less-every world giving 8, down to the 4 we actually get) I also don't see how that factor represents a "boatload" of materials, as stairs are, more often than not, only very minor part of most builds compared to just the blocks for the floors ceilings and walls (even castles with lots of stairs to make pillars and towers and stuff), and anyway most materials as so cheap and easy to get in the first place in vanilla. Don't believe me ? Try a mod like MITE Minecraft is Too Easy, where each block really counts, especially in the first several hours of play, and after a while with that mod, when you come back to vanilla as see you can go from absolutely nothing to diamond armor in less than an hour of play, you'll kind of feel like a god in comparison. Getting boatloads of matrials in vanilla minecraft is EASY so yeah they could make you first have to compress cobblestone or planks into 3x3 = 1 "wood/stone construction block"' that you would THEN craft into stairs or whatever, and it would still be cheap.
Ad stairs are NOT purely decorative blocks. They stand at the mid-point between functional blocks and decorative blocks: that is because the "advanced" functionality here that they represent a saving of food energy because no jumping around is needed to go up. So they get a very slight cost rise: 33% would be "ideal", NOT 0%, and here they get a 50% overcost. So that is only a 1/6 block cost extra woopeedoo. Real 100% functional blocks get a BIG cost rise compared that the materials. Like, does it make sense to you that you need 4 full ingos to make a small hand-sized compass ? Of course not. Going up entails a mechanical extra cost - but given how food is super easy to get in mass quantities in vanilla, I concede that is a VERY minor point inded, but that doesn't detract in any way that it is exactly how Mojang designed it's crafting recipes "costs" system in the first place. It was PURPOSEFULLY not designed to be "lossless" except for the SIMPLEST of blocks. And slabs are extremely simple: jut cut a block in half. While stairs might LOOK simple like slabs, but in functionality they actually fit closer to ladders.
So we have the following tradeoffs on the "moving up" functionality :
#1a - Jumping = costs 1 any block / moderate space, but require jumping action and the thus most cost in terms of energy.
#1b - Swimming up = costs only 1 water block but for an arbitrary height, but specifically need a water bucket already placed at top part, is slow, and prone to a potentially dangerous fall in some cases.
#1c - Rebounding on a slime block = still needs an initial jump or drop on the bouncy slime block, costly, fun, but can be dangerous, and can't go "more" up than how high you started with anyway so shouldn't even be listed here.
#1d - Pillaring up: Costs only 1 block per block of elevation, easy, but still needing to jump and a bit kind of "one way".
And then the "real" construction blocks only :
#2a - Full blocks = 1 block cost per block of elevation. Simple but constantly needing to jump. (same as method 1a, really)
#2b - Slabs = costs averages to "about 0.75" block per block of elevation: either you use blocks naturally already, thus you place 1 slab
every two blocks of elevation, thus 1/2 block cost per block of elevation gained (unless you alsao have to place the full block then it becomes a 1.5 blocks cost). Or you say use slabs only against say a cliff, and then it is needing 2 slabs per block of elevation, which is the same cost as a full block to form gross stairs, but here no jump is required, however at the cost of needing a LOT of extra horizontal space (double than when using full blocks as in method 2a).
#2c - Stairs = cost 1.5 blocks . Costlier than slabs, but more compact.
#2d - Ladders = cost 1.75 blocks. Even more costlier, but VERY compact.
So the little extra cost is there mainly as a form of "going upwards" tradeoff, NOT to scam players out of "precious" blocks. Mojang thought hard about the gameplay reasons.
Personally the easiest is just to avoid thinking Planks blocks are worth a "full" block, more like very hollow things or worth only a fraction of a "real" block. That is why 1 log = 4 planks and not just 1, and stairs need kind of reinforcement inside so I don't see anything wrong with the choice Mojang made. but then it doesn't even make sense as slabs out of stone don't have this "gain by a factor of 4" anyway.
Fact is, the game doesn't HAVE to be 100% fair everywhere or make perfect sense everywhere. So to be taken seriously, anybody who said "full support because it ain't a fair return" should also add "So to be totally fair I also support logs blocks giving only 1 planks blocks each". Yeah, right, like they would admit that kind of thing. Thatr is why I call that kind of opinion "one sided". Always ready to take more on what they see as an injustice, but not ready to admit they should also give ground when it is clear they are the one on the wrong side of yet another different but kind of very similar injustice.
THEN I'll take such posters as not being merely having adopted the easy to take and very "simple" one sided opinion, sometimes even raging at perceived unfairness, while at the same time taking the other side of the coin totally for granted, totally ignoring that side of the discussion. It is so much easier to ignore or bash down the way the non-supporter talks, than try to address the point he is making.
Unfortunately, until our Terminator future overlords transform us into batteries or something slightly less pleasant, that's just how human nature will be, really.
Personally, I *DO* wish for 1 logs = 1 planks. At best ! and for a not-100% lossless usage for cobblestone. Heck, without cement, cobblestone should just fall apart, no ? And maybe *THEN* I'd fight for recipes that make more sense and more balance lol.
But that probably won't happen either. Can you imagine the complaining about players having to raze entire forests to get wood ?
Nah, what we see instead is players wanting a Tree Feelling enchantment for axes so they get an entire tree's worth of blocks in one go, big lasers that mine tunnels super quickly, and a set of 16 magical dimensional pouches that need 1 item slot each but contain 2 double-chests of stuff. Do you ever wondered why the scales of "balance" seem to so frequently get strongly pulled towards nearly always the same side ?
I understand your point, but gameplay > realism. Logs give 4 wooden planks so players don't have to spend hours of their time harvesting trees, and stairs, besides saving you a few carrots and a little bit of time, are purely decorative. If this suggestion were to be implemented nothing important would change. Players would just have to use a less wood to make stairs for their house, that's all.
Also, no one is saying everything in Minecraft has to be 100% fair. (That wouldn't even be possible, considering everyone has a different viewpoint as to what "fair" is.)
I understand your point, but gameplay > realism. Logs give 4 wooden planks so players don't have to spend hours of their time harvesting trees, and stairs, besides saving you a few carrots and a little bit of time, are purely decorative. If this suggestion were to be implemented nothing important would change. Players would just have to use a less wood to make stairs for their house, that's all.
Also, no one is saying everything in Minecraft has to be 100% fair. (That wouldn't even be possible, considering everyone has a different viewpoint as to what "fair" is.)
Seems like your post is the most reasonable one of all those in this topic (including mine). :-)
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I'll get right to the point.
The cost of stairs and the amount of stair blocks you receive in return is not balanced.
To craft a stair block, six blocks are required to make one.
Stairs use 6/8 smaller blocks (divide a cube into 8 more cubes).
A regular blocks uses 8/8.
Thus, the amount of smaller blocks (let's call them miniblocks) that you are spending is forty-eight. (6*8) - 6 blocks made up of 8 cubes
The amount of miniblocks you are receiving is twenty-four. (6*4) - 4 blocks made up of 6 cubes
In short, to receive a decoration block. you are spending twice as much as you should be.
The solution is to have players receive eight stair blocks each time they craft one.
Sounds silly?
Builders have this problem often in Survival mode, and it simply doesn't make sense. How do you lose half of the blocks you are using?
Thanks in advance for constructive criticism.
Hello. I am a noob. Help please? Thanks.
eh why not?
Support
What the heck, this IS a problem! Full support!
What are you looking at?
How come nobody ever says anything about buttons? One whole block to produce 1 button?! That's like 99% waste! Should at least get 9 sawdust out of that, which we could then combine into a new flooring block (or maybe use the snow layer model instead of the block model).
no words are needed
FULL SUPPORT
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Support! This makes a lot of sense.
Never thought about it but I do always run out of stairs. SUPPORT.
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Makes sense, SUPPORT.
It's been like this forever, and everyone always uses them. It makes more sense, and there's no reason to change it.
No support.
Please read these two threads:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2572194-please-read-this-before-making-a-suggestion-v2-0
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/44180-for-the-critics-ftc
Theyll never add this, but yeah, i guess this is good.
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Speaking of crafting tables, they actually don't need more resources to make. Why? One log = 4 planks; 4 planks = 1 crafting table. So how do you magically get 4 planks from one log, which each have the same or better behavior (hardness, volume, smelting time - and 50% more blast resistance; planks are clearly not "hollow" inside)? Uh-oh...
Yeah, make a log only give you 1 plank - then we'll see whether the idea of balanced crafting recipes is good! That would obliterate any savings by making stairs require only half the materials - you'd need twice as many logs to start with as we currently do. Planks are also illogical in that a log smelts 1.5 items - but the same log smelts 6 when turned into planks - or 8 when turned into charcoal - by that logic you should need at least 6 logs to make one charcoal (which is also partially burnt, so should lose some of its mass/smelting efficiency).
See what I'm getting at?
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Slabs craft 3 blocks to 6 slabs, it should be somewhat similar with stairs. Of course with slabs, regardless of the material it's just the base block cut in half. Simple and wasteless.
The technique for crafting stairs doesn't work the same for most materials. In which, my suggestion is that the 6 blocks used to make stairs should yield 6 stair blocks instead of 8. Where the chunk excised from the individual blocks to make the stairs is damaged beyond reuse.
I absolutely HATE the way they are ripping you off... You only get FOUR stairs for SIX input blocks? That is the dumbest recipe ever, and it needs to be changed. What this suggestion is saying is give you a fair amount of stairs. DONE.
Instant full support
I don't even play Minecraft much anymore yet here I am on the Minecraft forums for some reason...
Except that the blocks you are describing are functional blocks that require high costs in order to provide balance to the game, while the original poster is talking about purely physical, decorative blocks that should be more readily available to survival players.
"Gameplay trumps realism any time of the day, every day."
So it's good gameplay that players trying to make stairs or slanted stairs have to use piles and piles of resources instead of reasonable scaling the cost down?
- No other PC mobs do. - Mob behaviour is intended to be simple.
Why you should NOT name new "special ability" weapons as "XXX Swords":
- No other swords have special abilities. - Make a new kind of weapon.
Support; my opinion has been explained by others.
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This could definitely fix up the ripoff issue we are having with the crafting table!
Support
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Exactly !!!
Many posters here say they hate when they feel getting ripped off by a factor of 2 but keep silent when they "win" by even bigger factors. I call that kind of attitude one sided (hypocrit might be a bit too strong and anyway to really be an hypocrit onehas to be fully conscious of the side of the coin he is ignoring).
And a factor of 2 is the "ideal best only" interpretation here. More reasonably you could see the stairs as a block out of which you then extract 1/4 of it, which then becomes an unusable leftover. In that case, the recipe, if giving "full stairs" back, and if it was "simple block" recipe, would then more reasonably yield 6, not 8, thus a "loss" of only a factor of 33% (from an expected 6 down to the 4 we get), not a loss of 50% (from an inflated pink glasses fairy ideal zero-less-every world giving 8, down to the 4 we actually get) I also don't see how that factor represents a "boatload" of materials, as stairs are, more often than not, only very minor part of most builds compared to just the blocks for the floors ceilings and walls (even castles with lots of stairs to make pillars and towers and stuff), and anyway most materials as so cheap and easy to get in the first place in vanilla. Don't believe me ? Try a mod like MITE Minecraft is Too Easy, where each block really counts, especially in the first several hours of play, and after a while with that mod, when you come back to vanilla as see you can go from absolutely nothing to diamond armor in less than an hour of play, you'll kind of feel like a god in comparison. Getting boatloads of matrials in vanilla minecraft is EASY so yeah they could make you first have to compress cobblestone or planks into 3x3 = 1 "wood/stone construction block"' that you would THEN craft into stairs or whatever, and it would still be cheap.
Ad stairs are NOT purely decorative blocks. They stand at the mid-point between functional blocks and decorative blocks: that is because the "advanced" functionality here that they represent a saving of food energy because no jumping around is needed to go up. So they get a very slight cost rise: 33% would be "ideal", NOT 0%, and here they get a 50% overcost. So that is only a 1/6 block cost extra woopeedoo. Real 100% functional blocks get a BIG cost rise compared that the materials. Like, does it make sense to you that you need 4 full ingos to make a small hand-sized compass ? Of course not. Going up entails a mechanical extra cost - but given how food is super easy to get in mass quantities in vanilla, I concede that is a VERY minor point inded, but that doesn't detract in any way that it is exactly how Mojang designed it's crafting recipes "costs" system in the first place. It was PURPOSEFULLY not designed to be "lossless" except for the SIMPLEST of blocks. And slabs are extremely simple: jut cut a block in half. While stairs might LOOK simple like slabs, but in functionality they actually fit closer to ladders.
So we have the following tradeoffs on the "moving up" functionality :
#1a - Jumping = costs 1 any block / moderate space, but require jumping action and the thus most cost in terms of energy.
#1b - Swimming up = costs only 1 water block but for an arbitrary height, but specifically need a water bucket already placed at top part, is slow, and prone to a potentially dangerous fall in some cases.
#1c - Rebounding on a slime block = still needs an initial jump or drop on the bouncy slime block, costly, fun, but can be dangerous, and can't go "more" up than how high you started with anyway so shouldn't even be listed here.
#1d - Pillaring up: Costs only 1 block per block of elevation, easy, but still needing to jump and a bit kind of "one way".
And then the "real" construction blocks only :
#2a - Full blocks = 1 block cost per block of elevation. Simple but constantly needing to jump. (same as method 1a, really)
#2b - Slabs = costs averages to "about 0.75" block per block of elevation: either you use blocks naturally already, thus you place 1 slab
every two blocks of elevation, thus 1/2 block cost per block of elevation gained (unless you alsao have to place the full block then it becomes a 1.5 blocks cost). Or you say use slabs only against say a cliff, and then it is needing 2 slabs per block of elevation, which is the same cost as a full block to form gross stairs, but here no jump is required, however at the cost of needing a LOT of extra horizontal space (double than when using full blocks as in method 2a).
#2c - Stairs = cost 1.5 blocks . Costlier than slabs, but more compact.
#2d - Ladders = cost 1.75 blocks. Even more costlier, but VERY compact.
So the little extra cost is there mainly as a form of "going upwards" tradeoff, NOT to scam players out of "precious" blocks. Mojang thought hard about the gameplay reasons.
Personally the easiest is just to avoid thinking Planks blocks are worth a "full" block, more like very hollow things or worth only a fraction of a "real" block. That is why 1 log = 4 planks and not just 1, and stairs need kind of reinforcement inside so I don't see anything wrong with the choice Mojang made. but then it doesn't even make sense as slabs out of stone don't have this "gain by a factor of 4" anyway.
Fact is, the game doesn't HAVE to be 100% fair everywhere or make perfect sense everywhere. So to be taken seriously, anybody who said "full support because it ain't a fair return" should also add "So to be totally fair I also support logs blocks giving only 1 planks blocks each". Yeah, right, like they would admit that kind of thing. Thatr is why I call that kind of opinion "one sided". Always ready to take more on what they see as an injustice, but not ready to admit they should also give ground when it is clear they are the one on the wrong side of yet another different but kind of very similar injustice.
THEN I'll take such posters as not being merely having adopted the easy to take and very "simple" one sided opinion, sometimes even raging at perceived unfairness, while at the same time taking the other side of the coin totally for granted, totally ignoring that side of the discussion. It is so much easier to ignore or bash down the way the non-supporter talks, than try to address the point he is making.
Unfortunately, until our Terminator future overlords transform us into batteries or something slightly less pleasant, that's just how human nature will be, really.
Personally, I *DO* wish for 1 logs = 1 planks. At best ! and for a not-100% lossless usage for cobblestone. Heck, without cement, cobblestone should just fall apart, no ? And maybe *THEN* I'd fight for recipes that make more sense and more balance lol.
But that probably won't happen either. Can you imagine the complaining about players having to raze entire forests to get wood ?
Nah, what we see instead is players wanting a Tree Feelling enchantment for axes so they get an entire tree's worth of blocks in one go, big lasers that mine tunnels super quickly, and a set of 16 magical dimensional pouches that need 1 item slot each but contain 2 double-chests of stuff. Do you ever wondered why the scales of "balance" seem to so frequently get strongly pulled towards nearly always the same side ?
I understand your point, but gameplay > realism. Logs give 4 wooden planks so players don't have to spend hours of their time harvesting trees, and stairs, besides saving you a few carrots and a little bit of time, are purely decorative. If this suggestion were to be implemented nothing important would change. Players would just have to use a less wood to make stairs for their house, that's all.
Also, no one is saying everything in Minecraft has to be 100% fair. (That wouldn't even be possible, considering everyone has a different viewpoint as to what "fair" is.)
Seems like your post is the most reasonable one of all those in this topic (including mine). :-)
I am in need of this, RIGHT NOW. Full support.
If I helped you in any way or agree in my ideas or posts, make sure you click that green arrow pointing up below my post or simply huggle me! I use 1.7.10 (Modded), so when I comment that I like a 1.8 mod, I will comment to downgrade to 1.7.10. I support no pics, no clicks. Suggestions that I think that are the best deserves a banner!
It is almost time to say goodbye to 1.7.10 because of the recent surge of big 1.9 mods.
Why MCreator sucks: jcm2606's file (doesn't open a new tab) He allows/welcomes anyone to link the file, so I put it here in my signature for people to know how MCreator functions. I thank jcm2606 (he's awesome) for creating the document/file and I'm just here to spread the word.
500+ huggles? U wot, m8?