Is it impossible to generate a Default-type world with the world spawn is in a desert biome?
That is, I want to start the game, create a new single player world, entering whatever seed, and press F3 right when I first spawn -- and it should say "Biome: desert".
Not near a desert, but right inside it. And without MCEdit.
I have never witnessed that, ever. Every seed that says 'desert' in the description actualy spawns me beside a desert - in another biome (mostly plains or savannah), not in the center of an actual desert.
Seed: "-5575365919095016558" spawns you in a Desert Hills biome. Close enough?
Seed: "3326584466127990994" also spawns you in a Desert Hills biome with nothing visible but sand, cacti, the water of a river, and sugar cane.
I don't normally take note of the desert worlds I see when just hitting random worlds with Amidst so I've probably seen many more that I didn't save the seeds for.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people. R.A. Heinlein
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
Many thanks, BigAlanM, you're awsome! That's exactly what I was looking for.
Although my curious question remains -- those seeds spawn in 'desert hills' biome, not 'desert' one...
I'm thinking minecraft either tries to spawn a player only on blocks like dirt, grass or stone - probably to fix an old bug where you could be spawned mid-ocean or on top of a huge tree...
OK.
Here's one. I spawned and immediately hit F3. The display came up Desert.
Seed: "3404678614041101577"
Here's a screen shot. I haven't moved from the spawn point.
I will admit that I spawned at the south edge of a savanna at -85,-51. (When I turned around all was green.)
There is a savanna village with a church and two libraries at 272,-224 that has a desert temple beside it.
To the west of spawn is a large Mesa biome with a nice sized Bryce at -512,0.
There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people. R.A. Heinlein
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
Here's one. I spawned and immediately hit F3. The display came up Desert.
Seed: "3404678614041101577"
Cool! Works for me too. Approx. 1/2 chance to spawn either in desert biome on sand, or in savanna on grass (v1.8 single player).
So my assumption is clearly incorrect, and i'm either unlucky, or it should be refined somehow.
I hope I did not cause you to create like hundreds of worlds just to prove me wrong... I'm really sorry if that's the case and thank you again!
Many thanks, BigAlanM, you're awsome! That's exactly what I was looking for.
Although my curious question remains -- those seeds spawn in 'desert hills' biome, not 'desert' one...
I'm thinking minecraft either tries to spawn a player only on blocks like dirt, grass or stone - probably to fix an old bug where you could be spawned mid-ocean or on top of a huge tree...
You are indeed correct; when creating a new world the game first tries to find a suitable biome to spawn in, which must be forest, plains, taiga, jungle or their respective hills variants (fun fact - this list is the same in 1.7 as in 1.6, meaning they didn't account for any of the new biomes). If it can't find any of those biomes within some distance (a few hundred blocks) of the origin (X/Z 0, 0) it will start to randomly search up to 1,000 randomly selected chunks around the origin for grass blocks; if that still fails, it will give up and use whatever the last attempted spawn point was; thus, you can spawn 1,000 blocks away or more from the origin when this occurs, which is also obvious in a third-party map viewer such as Minutor (you'll see a large scattering of random chunks leading from the origin to your spawn point); you can also tell right away that this is happening because initial world generation will hang on "converting world"; the console will also output the warning "unable to find spawn biome"). Usually, this happens with ocean biomes, particulaly prior to 1.7 but can also happen in 1.7 and later due to only new biomes near spawn, especially on large biomes.
Here's an example of what happens when the game fails to find a suitable biome to spawn in; I created a world using the "desert" preset in Superflat (a customized world with the biome set to desert would also work); the origin is near the top while the spawn point ended up around -770, 1,417:
(it is also entirely possible to spawn right at the origin when this happens due to the biome being "invalid" but covered in grass)
In conclusion, the game has multiple "fail safes" built-in to try avoiding spawning you in an unsuitable biome (i.e. no wood or animals) although it can still fail (you can also still spawn on top of a tree as well - the game simply spawns the player on the highest non-exposed block within a 20x20 block area around the world spawn point; not so much of a bug but to prevent you from spawning in e.g. caves).
Very interesting, TheMasterCaver. Thank you very much for such a detailed explaination.
I guess those failsafes could confuse a lot of people, and that is why minecraft often hangs on "converting" a lot when creating large biome worlds, especially if the origin ends on a large mesa or desert.
Do you mind if I copy all of that to the wiki? because I think it shoud definitely be in there...
(or maybe you would prefer to put it there yourself)
[Edit1]:
On a side note, from the pattern on your screenshot it looks like minecraft searches the spawn chunk by repeatedly taking steps in random direction rather than just hitting random coordinates near origin. I guess that is done to find the way out of the ocean.
[Edit2]:
Some more screenshots. "+" marks the origin, "x" marks the spawn point. Worlds are superflat desert.
Out of curiosity I re-created the world with seed "3404678614041101577" and this time spawned on savanna at -100,-57.
Take a look at the first attachment (a): The house icon indicates where Amidst predicted spawn to be and the Steve icon indicates where I actually spawned this time.
The second attachment (b) shows where I actually spawned the first time I created this world -85,-51.
Since the locations differed slightly I opened the world data file with NBTExplorer and found that the world spawn point is -95, 64, -58 which Amidst shows to be Savanna. I have to assume the MC world generator really wanted spawn to be in Savanna not Desert but the routine that varies the player spawn around the world spawn point by (I think +/- 10 blocks in both X and Z) sometimes places the player in desert if, as in this case, world spawn is near a Savanna/Desert border.
This is typical of Amidst not predicting the actual spawn location when the world generator software later on in the process decides that it doesn't like the initial location that the first pass routines (which are what Amidst uses) picked.
OBTW - The spawn point shown by Amidst is 0,0 which is an indication that the first pass routines weren't happy with the spawn location choices either.
There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people. R.A. Heinlein
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
Loaded world "3404678614041101577", /killed myself a couple of times, marking spawn positions with lapis.gold represents world spawn borders, diamond - its center in (-95, 78, -58)
So minecraft seems to check the biome of the center of the world spawn when is first assigned (savanna in this example), and players just spawn within 20x20 of that point disregarding if its desert or not. Kind of makes sense, especially if a player builds a house around spawnpoint, or the chosen biome is just tiny patch inside "unwanted" one.
I just found another one where world spawn is almost a desert.
Seed: "8378127774043268940"
Amidst shows spawn at 0,0 on a ~ 500x500 island of all desert biomes.
I spawned at 63.5, 112.5 with desert in front of me and a river at my back.
NBTExplorer shows the world spawn point to be 57, 64, 111 which, as it turns out, is a block of grass in a river biome with desert sand occupying 5 of the 8 blocks around it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people. R.A. Heinlein
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
I spawned in the desert randomly. What is weird about spawning in the desert? LoL. Really? What's weird in that?!
Did you bother to read the entire thread? Please don't jump into a conversation without knowing what has been said before.
We established that it is possible for a player to spawn on a desert block but the Minecraft world generator always seems to place the world spawn point at a non-desert point.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people. R.A. Heinlein
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
That is, I want to start the game, create a new single player world, entering whatever seed, and press F3 right when I first spawn -- and it should say "Biome: desert".
Not near a desert, but right inside it. And without MCEdit.
I have never witnessed that, ever. Every seed that says 'desert' in the description actualy spawns me beside a desert - in another biome (mostly plains or savannah), not in the center of an actual desert.
I wonder if it is intended to be like that? And if it is, that should probably be added to the corresponding wiki page
( http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Spawn and/or http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Spawn_chunk )
Seed: "3326584466127990994" also spawns you in a Desert Hills biome with nothing visible but sand, cacti, the water of a river, and sugar cane.
I don't normally take note of the desert worlds I see when just hitting random worlds with Amidst so I've probably seen many more that I didn't save the seeds for.
There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people. R.A. Heinlein
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
The latest release of Amidst, version 4.6 can be found here:
https://github.com/toolbox4minecraft/amidst/releases
You should probably also read this:
https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/minecraft-tools/2970854-amidst-map-explorer-for-minecraft-1-14
You can find me on the Minecraft Forums Discord server.
https://discord.gg/wGrQNKX
Although my curious question remains -- those seeds spawn in 'desert hills' biome, not 'desert' one...
I'm thinking minecraft either tries to spawn a player only on blocks like dirt, grass or stone - probably to fix an old bug where you could be spawned mid-ocean or on top of a huge tree...
Here's one. I spawned and immediately hit F3. The display came up Desert.
Seed: "3404678614041101577"
Here's a screen shot. I haven't moved from the spawn point.
I will admit that I spawned at the south edge of a savanna at -85,-51. (When I turned around all was green.)
There is a savanna village with a church and two libraries at 272,-224 that has a desert temple beside it.
To the west of spawn is a large Mesa biome with a nice sized Bryce at -512,0.
There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people. R.A. Heinlein
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
The latest release of Amidst, version 4.6 can be found here:
https://github.com/toolbox4minecraft/amidst/releases
You should probably also read this:
https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/minecraft-tools/2970854-amidst-map-explorer-for-minecraft-1-14
You can find me on the Minecraft Forums Discord server.
https://discord.gg/wGrQNKX
Cool! Works for me too. Approx. 1/2 chance to spawn either in desert biome on sand, or in savanna on grass (v1.8 single player).
So my assumption is clearly incorrect, and i'm either unlucky, or it should be refined somehow.
I hope I did not cause you to create like hundreds of worlds just to prove me wrong... I'm really sorry if that's the case and thank you again!
You are indeed correct; when creating a new world the game first tries to find a suitable biome to spawn in, which must be forest, plains, taiga, jungle or their respective hills variants (fun fact - this list is the same in 1.7 as in 1.6, meaning they didn't account for any of the new biomes). If it can't find any of those biomes within some distance (a few hundred blocks) of the origin (X/Z 0, 0) it will start to randomly search up to 1,000 randomly selected chunks around the origin for grass blocks; if that still fails, it will give up and use whatever the last attempted spawn point was; thus, you can spawn 1,000 blocks away or more from the origin when this occurs, which is also obvious in a third-party map viewer such as Minutor (you'll see a large scattering of random chunks leading from the origin to your spawn point); you can also tell right away that this is happening because initial world generation will hang on "converting world"; the console will also output the warning "unable to find spawn biome"). Usually, this happens with ocean biomes, particulaly prior to 1.7 but can also happen in 1.7 and later due to only new biomes near spawn, especially on large biomes.
Here's an example of what happens when the game fails to find a suitable biome to spawn in; I created a world using the "desert" preset in Superflat (a customized world with the biome set to desert would also work); the origin is near the top while the spawn point ended up around -770, 1,417:
(it is also entirely possible to spawn right at the origin when this happens due to the biome being "invalid" but covered in grass)
In conclusion, the game has multiple "fail safes" built-in to try avoiding spawning you in an unsuitable biome (i.e. no wood or animals) although it can still fail (you can also still spawn on top of a tree as well - the game simply spawns the player on the highest non-exposed block within a 20x20 block area around the world spawn point; not so much of a bug but to prevent you from spawning in e.g. caves).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I guess those failsafes could confuse a lot of people, and that is why minecraft often hangs on "converting" a lot when creating large biome worlds, especially if the origin ends on a large mesa or desert.
Do you mind if I copy all of that to the wiki? because I think it shoud definitely be in there...
(or maybe you would prefer to put it there yourself)
[Edit1]:
On a side note, from the pattern on your screenshot it looks like minecraft searches the spawn chunk by repeatedly taking steps in random direction rather than just hitting random coordinates near origin. I guess that is done to find the way out of the ocean.
[Edit2]:
Some more screenshots. "+" marks the origin, "x" marks the spawn point. Worlds are superflat desert.
Take a look at the first attachment (a): The house icon indicates where Amidst predicted spawn to be and the Steve icon indicates where I actually spawned this time.
The second attachment (b) shows where I actually spawned the first time I created this world -85,-51.
Since the locations differed slightly I opened the world data file with NBTExplorer and found that the world spawn point is -95, 64, -58 which Amidst shows to be Savanna. I have to assume the MC world generator really wanted spawn to be in Savanna not Desert but the routine that varies the player spawn around the world spawn point by (I think +/- 10 blocks in both X and Z) sometimes places the player in desert if, as in this case, world spawn is near a Savanna/Desert border.
This is typical of Amidst not predicting the actual spawn location when the world generator software later on in the process decides that it doesn't like the initial location that the first pass routines (which are what Amidst uses) picked.
OBTW - The spawn point shown by Amidst is 0,0 which is an indication that the first pass routines weren't happy with the spawn location choices either.
There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people. R.A. Heinlein
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
The latest release of Amidst, version 4.6 can be found here:
https://github.com/toolbox4minecraft/amidst/releases
You should probably also read this:
https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/minecraft-tools/2970854-amidst-map-explorer-for-minecraft-1-14
You can find me on the Minecraft Forums Discord server.
https://discord.gg/wGrQNKX
Loaded world "3404678614041101577", /killed myself a couple of times, marking spawn positions with lapis.gold represents world spawn borders, diamond - its center in (-95, 78, -58)
So minecraft seems to check the biome of the center of the world spawn when is first assigned (savanna in this example), and players just spawn within 20x20 of that point disregarding if its desert or not. Kind of makes sense, especially if a player builds a house around spawnpoint, or the chosen biome is just tiny patch inside "unwanted" one.
Seed: "8378127774043268940"
Amidst shows spawn at 0,0 on a ~ 500x500 island of all desert biomes.
I spawned at 63.5, 112.5 with desert in front of me and a river at my back.
NBTExplorer shows the world spawn point to be 57, 64, 111 which, as it turns out, is a block of grass in a river biome with desert sand occupying 5 of the 8 blocks around it.
There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people. R.A. Heinlein
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
The latest release of Amidst, version 4.6 can be found here:
https://github.com/toolbox4minecraft/amidst/releases
You should probably also read this:
https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/minecraft-tools/2970854-amidst-map-explorer-for-minecraft-1-14
You can find me on the Minecraft Forums Discord server.
https://discord.gg/wGrQNKX
Did you bother to read the entire thread? Please don't jump into a conversation without knowing what has been said before.
We established that it is possible for a player to spawn on a desert block but the Minecraft world generator always seems to place the world spawn point at a non-desert point.
There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people. R.A. Heinlein
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
The latest release of Amidst, version 4.6 can be found here:
https://github.com/toolbox4minecraft/amidst/releases
You should probably also read this:
https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/minecraft-tools/2970854-amidst-map-explorer-for-minecraft-1-14
You can find me on the Minecraft Forums Discord server.
https://discord.gg/wGrQNKX