Some of Dinnerbone's tweets have hinted he's planning to automate Iron Golem construction. That might explain why Mojang is moving against full-auto iron grinders now. An infinite supply of iron blocks is one thing; an infinite supply of killer robots is quite another.
They have been planning to create automation mechanisms in Minecraft since ever. This isn't news. If they want to do it, then do it and ONLY THEN change the current mechanisms. This is how you do it. This is how in fact they always did it. This whole new talk of "we are making changes now for future updates" really got some of you, didn't it.
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I've came to conclusion that iron farm is fine by itself, but the issue is the fact that it works perpetually. That makes it very overpowered from my point of view.
Never-mind, I just realized it doesn't affect me. The only real server type it could affect me on is factions, and I am never playing on those god-forsaken faction servers ever again.
Why is this an issue? Create an automatic killing system and include hoppers to collect the loot. That way, you can abuse it even more by being AFK or away at a mine, and STILL collect iron.
Or is there something I'm not seeing here? This is actually how mine works in my world.
I don't have any mind-blowing awesome arguments that others haven't already posted. I was going to post the turned tables thing, but was beaten to it, in a much better way that I would have said. I do have one little personal preference.
I hate Endermen and Zombie Pigmen farms. Because, well, I like those mobs. I don't like killing them. When my brother comes into my world, he's prohibited from killing them. House rule. And you know what?
I am very much upset by the destruction of fully automatic gold farms, and would be the same for Endermen farms. I occasionally play on SMP. Someone showed me their massive gold farm. It is public knowledge that the end has an Ender farm. I… really don't care. So I have to mine my gold. So I don't get Ender pearls. Well, okay. I happily accept gifted pearls on SMP. I just won't get them myself.
So, uh, problem?
And that immersion thing. On a strictly personal level, I can't agree there, either. I never thought of villagers building golems in the first place. More that they summon them. I find it beautiful that things on the level of gods can be outmatched to humiliating degrees. It's the ultimate way of saying you have conquered that world, and yet you started with literally nothing. You can summon a demon if destruction to cut down trees. That may ruin your immersion, but it sure progresses mine. (And for the record, I don't do this one either. It's just really cool that it CAN be done.)
So please, don't make me play your way. I am on both sides of the farm versus no farm spectrum, and I can say it is perfectly possible to be fine with people farming infinite resources that you are not. The whole anti-farm argument seems stemmed on a non-existent unfair advantage, because you choose to play a certain way. It isn't unfair if you choose that way in the first place. I choose not to farm gold or Ender pearls. Is it unfair that others do? Absolutely not. That's how they play, and even on SMP, it only effects me positively when they have no problem sharing or selling a resource they have a ton of.
Then again, maybe I'm only playing on a nice server. PvP was never my thing to begin with. Is that where all the stink is? Because I'm sure there are far better PvP games than Mine Craft.
As for the news on Twitter, I'm glad Jeb heard the reddit people. I just hope this "solution" doesn't still translate into killing full-automation of gold and iron farms. Come on, Jeb. You guys can get it right! I won't hold my breath, but I'll cross my fingers! *fingers crossed*
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Always siding with the enemy. Except spiders. Screw those guys.
In the latest snapshot iron golems will now only drop iron if killed by the player.
Hmm, I see. Well, I can still make them work, I think. I'll probably set my farm to kill mode (to prevent lag), then when I want to gather iron I'll turn it off kill mode and one-hit punch them for loot. Honestly, I have more than enough iron to last me forever at this point anyway but I can admit it's more balanced this way.
...
I'm totally fine with people making any kind of farms/grinders. I know how it feels being rewarding after effort.
What bother me is the fact that they take in granted that what they are doing is totally granted and expecting it to work indefinitely. They can keep their world and play at version they want.
Stepping into game's gray zone and asking behaviors to stay as it is forever is ... not right.
This is a fabulous, mature perspective. And if things were this simple I don't think anyone would mind that farms and trading halls arbitrarily become broken from time to time during various improvements to the game.
The problem is, they didn't become arbitrarily broken because something else was being improved or changed, they were broken specifically for the sake of breaking them. And the real problem, and I think this is what people are actually up in arms over, is Mojang's attitude. From their comments and words, it seems to be their intention to stymie all advanced resource farming. And I say advanced because of course everything you do in survival play is really some kind of farming, it's just a matter of scale and complexity.
So if they intend to continually make advanced farms less attractive, which is the same as saying less fun, the game will be shallower and more linear. No amount of adjusting the farms will matter, because Mojang will be actively and specifically working to make farms unattractive.
So everything you've expressed is accurate, but I don't think that's the world we're living in anymore.
Minecraft Forum is the sewer of the Minecraft community.
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People who intentionally desecrate a language are no different than griefers who tear things down because they are too immature and undisciplined to create, so instead they destroy out of jealousy.
Has anyone heard of the rail duplicator glitch? I don't use that at all, simply because of how unintentional the design is. At least iron golems are supposed to drop iron and be replaced by the population. Rails are NEVER supposed to duplicate.
One day, perhaps someone will explain the link between farming and duping. I don't think it will happen, that someone will be able to explain the link, but I am open to the possibility that, one day, someone will uncover and explain the link. I think hover cars that run on Neapolitan-style pizza dough will be invented first, but you never know.
In the long meanwhile between then and now, Mojang, keep up the good work: make the game more (rather than less) dynamic; give us more ways (rather than fewer) to interact with the cubes around us; allow us more freedom (rather than less freedom) to build up our own, silly little Minecraft worlds. Let us build a wheat farm if we can figure out how to do it, and if we want wheat farms in our world. Let us build an iron golem farm if we can figure out how to do it, and if we want iron farms in our world.
One day, perhaps someone will explain the link between farming and duping.
That's pretty straightforward. It's based on designer intent. There are some items they intended for players to be able to create more of from a limited supply (wood, crops, farm animals) and generating those is "farming". There are other they didn't want us to be able to create and so generating those is "duping" (iron, gold, diamond; probably all the underground stuff). Some dups, of course, are of items so common nobody's going to care about it (e.g. cobblestone generators). I would have thought sand would be in that category but it seems it isn't based on how Mojang keeps trying to shut down sand generators.
Well it could be like the zombie pigman and have them drop iron nuggets. Unless the next step is to make gold nuggets rare drops for zombie pigman as well...
One day, perhaps someone will explain the link between farming and duping.
Two very similar ideas, but different. Duping requires ulterior methods (via game exploit, glitch, etc.) to obtain an item as much as desired. Farming utilizes various machines and contraptions in order to harvest an item using a game's built-in purpose (killing a mob or uprooting a plant using water) to obtain it as much as desired.
Nerfing iron farms has ruined the game forever?
Meh, I could care less about the change, but I guess it's sort of bad for those people. But seriously, nerfing iron farming isn't ruining the game for thousands of fans. I mean, it's a bad change to some, but I doubt it "ruined" the game and made them stop playing.
Nerfing iron farms has ruined the game forever?
Meh, I could care less about the change, but I guess it's sort of bad for those people. But seriously, nerfing iron farming isn't ruining the game for thousands of fans. I mean, it's a bad change to some, but I doubt it "ruined" the game and made them stop playing.
At this point my iron farm has produced more iron than I will probably ever need. What the nerf does is it breaks huge structures in my world that are rendered otherwise worthless now, which to me makes a huge scar in my world. Not to mention they were just cool. With the nerf they are just pointless and just take up a ton of space in my world. I spent a ton of time making all these farms look cool not just making the functionality and with the nerf they are just huge structures that serve no purpose and this is what bothers me. I may have a unique perpective on it and I just dont see how this affects other people and why they should care what I do in my world. Does it ruin Minecraft? No but it does ruin a large portion of my world and I have spent a ton of time in my world and the nerf is like a slap in the face to me.
Funny thing is I watched that earlier, and for me iron and gold farms strengthen and mend .
And the important thing to retain is that both of you are right.
So... what does this tell us? That, since you can so easily avoid iron farms by just not building them, don't build them if they happen to get in the way of your enjoyment of the game. What you shouldn't do is force it on other people. I'm still at awe as to why for some people in these forums this simple basic concept of human decency is not being grasped.
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Well there's an easy way to keep everyone kinda happy. Lowering iron ingot drops. That way farms can still be automatic, but slower than actually going to mine some iron ores. Like 1-2 instead of 1-5 per golem. We know most of them drop 3-4 right now.
i've found a great way to describe my dislike for iron and gold farms, basically, they weaken and break .
How so? Iron farms are one more way Minecraft lets you kick physics square in the groin and simply create. You play a character who, if you've not defied physics in multiple ways, I doubt you've done anything with. Half of the environment you're supposed to be investing in is simply impossible in reality - your computer-LEGOs do their thing, not what makes sense.
First time you set a block against a wall or stood on a lily-pad, you broke physics. There's nothing to hold that there.
How many times have you used Minecraft's illogical water-physics to your advantage? How many times have you filled your metal bucket with lava that would destroy any bit of inventory you've ever had? Heck, how many times have you come within arm's reach of lava and not died from heat and poisonous gasses. How many times have you swum up a waterfall or survived a fatal fall by landing in one meter of water?
You are a LEGO dude in a LEGO world that follows its own twisted LEGO physics. When the game tries to be more like reality, that's when you lose the immersive value of entering a reality with its own rules.
While I agree the lag and loading errors are a larger concern for most players, I disagree with your assertion that Mojang is breaking the game. The farms that were nerfed were in fact breaking the game. Obviously Mojang never intended the collection of iron, gold, xp, etc as easily as it can be done through grinders. This change is their effort to correct that imbalance within the game, and they didn't break existing farms, they just altered how they work. Now the player must be there to manually deliver the final blow, they just nerfed the automated system, which is an obvious exploit within the game. I have no complaint about this aspect of the snapshots
I rarely post, but I'm going to go ahead and jump in with the "why nerf it" crowd. I haven't ever made an iron farm, it seems like too much work for an easy to obtain resource, but if someone else wants to do it more power to them. Minecraft is not an MMO, so why patch "exploits" that are really just creative ways to use the mechanics of the game. Making farms and experience grinders and whatever is a fun part of the game for a lot of people, so why make changes whose sole purpose is to ruin somebody else's fun?
I rarely post, but I'm going to go ahead and jump in with the "why nerf it" crowd. I haven't ever made an iron farm, it seems like too much work for an easy to obtain resource, but if someone else wants to do it more power to them. Minecraft is not an MMO, so why patch "exploits" that are really just creative ways to use the mechanics of the game. Making farms and experience grinders and whatever is a fun part of the game for a lot of people, so why make changes whose sole purpose is to ruin somebody else's fun?
It is creative, but it is abusive as well to the point that the basic idea of the game, which is mining, is being nerfed by the very same people who wanted to have "fun" with hoarding iron.
They have been planning to create automation mechanisms in Minecraft since ever. This isn't news. If they want to do it, then do it and ONLY THEN change the current mechanisms. This is how you do it. This is how in fact they always did it. This whole new talk of "we are making changes now for future updates" really got some of you, didn't it.
Never-mind, I just realized it doesn't affect me. The only real server type it could affect me on is factions, and I am never playing on those god-forsaken faction servers ever again.
I don't play multiplayer anymore, so never-mind.
See my first quoted reply.
Or is there something I'm not seeing here? This is actually how mine works in my world.
I hate Endermen and Zombie Pigmen farms. Because, well, I like those mobs. I don't like killing them. When my brother comes into my world, he's prohibited from killing them. House rule. And you know what?
I am very much upset by the destruction of fully automatic gold farms, and would be the same for Endermen farms. I occasionally play on SMP. Someone showed me their massive gold farm. It is public knowledge that the end has an Ender farm. I… really don't care. So I have to mine my gold. So I don't get Ender pearls. Well, okay. I happily accept gifted pearls on SMP. I just won't get them myself.
So, uh, problem?
And that immersion thing. On a strictly personal level, I can't agree there, either. I never thought of villagers building golems in the first place. More that they summon them. I find it beautiful that things on the level of gods can be outmatched to humiliating degrees. It's the ultimate way of saying you have conquered that world, and yet you started with literally nothing. You can summon a demon if destruction to cut down trees. That may ruin your immersion, but it sure progresses mine. (And for the record, I don't do this one either. It's just really cool that it CAN be done.)
So please, don't make me play your way. I am on both sides of the farm versus no farm spectrum, and I can say it is perfectly possible to be fine with people farming infinite resources that you are not. The whole anti-farm argument seems stemmed on a non-existent unfair advantage, because you choose to play a certain way. It isn't unfair if you choose that way in the first place. I choose not to farm gold or Ender pearls. Is it unfair that others do? Absolutely not. That's how they play, and even on SMP, it only effects me positively when they have no problem sharing or selling a resource they have a ton of.
Then again, maybe I'm only playing on a nice server. PvP was never my thing to begin with. Is that where all the stink is? Because I'm sure there are far better PvP games than Mine Craft.
As for the news on Twitter, I'm glad Jeb heard the reddit people. I just hope this "solution" doesn't still translate into killing full-automation of gold and iron farms. Come on, Jeb. You guys can get it right! I won't hold my breath, but I'll cross my fingers! *fingers crossed*
Hmm, I see. Well, I can still make them work, I think. I'll probably set my farm to kill mode (to prevent lag), then when I want to gather iron I'll turn it off kill mode and one-hit punch them for loot. Honestly, I have more than enough iron to last me forever at this point anyway but I can admit it's more balanced this way.
This is a fabulous, mature perspective. And if things were this simple I don't think anyone would mind that farms and trading halls arbitrarily become broken from time to time during various improvements to the game.
The problem is, they didn't become arbitrarily broken because something else was being improved or changed, they were broken specifically for the sake of breaking them. And the real problem, and I think this is what people are actually up in arms over, is Mojang's attitude. From their comments and words, it seems to be their intention to stymie all advanced resource farming. And I say advanced because of course everything you do in survival play is really some kind of farming, it's just a matter of scale and complexity.
So if they intend to continually make advanced farms less attractive, which is the same as saying less fun, the game will be shallower and more linear. No amount of adjusting the farms will matter, because Mojang will be actively and specifically working to make farms unattractive.
So everything you've expressed is accurate, but I don't think that's the world we're living in anymore.
.
Minecraft Forum is the sewer of the Minecraft community.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
People who intentionally desecrate a language are no different than griefers who tear things down because they are too immature and undisciplined to create, so instead they destroy out of jealousy.
In the long meanwhile between then and now, Mojang, keep up the good work: make the game more (rather than less) dynamic; give us more ways (rather than fewer) to interact with the cubes around us; allow us more freedom (rather than less freedom) to build up our own, silly little Minecraft worlds. Let us build a wheat farm if we can figure out how to do it, and if we want wheat farms in our world. Let us build an iron golem farm if we can figure out how to do it, and if we want iron farms in our world.
Thanks in advance.
That's pretty straightforward. It's based on designer intent. There are some items they intended for players to be able to create more of from a limited supply (wood, crops, farm animals) and generating those is "farming". There are other they didn't want us to be able to create and so generating those is "duping" (iron, gold, diamond; probably all the underground stuff). Some dups, of course, are of items so common nobody's going to care about it (e.g. cobblestone generators). I would have thought sand would be in that category but it seems it isn't based on how Mojang keeps trying to shut down sand generators.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
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They now no longer drop them unless killed by the player.
Two very similar ideas, but different. Duping requires ulterior methods (via game exploit, glitch, etc.) to obtain an item as much as desired. Farming utilizes various machines and contraptions in order to harvest an item using a game's built-in purpose (killing a mob or uprooting a plant using water) to obtain it as much as desired.
Meh, I could care less about the change, but I guess it's sort of bad for those people. But seriously, nerfing iron farming isn't ruining the game for thousands of fans. I mean, it's a bad change to some, but I doubt it "ruined" the game and made them stop playing.
Easy solution. Dont like them? Then dont make them! No one is telling you to make one so why not just gtfo?
At this point my iron farm has produced more iron than I will probably ever need. What the nerf does is it breaks huge structures in my world that are rendered otherwise worthless now, which to me makes a huge scar in my world. Not to mention they were just cool. With the nerf they are just pointless and just take up a ton of space in my world. I spent a ton of time making all these farms look cool not just making the functionality and with the nerf they are just huge structures that serve no purpose and this is what bothers me. I may have a unique perpective on it and I just dont see how this affects other people and why they should care what I do in my world. Does it ruin Minecraft? No but it does ruin a large portion of my world and I have spent a ton of time in my world and the nerf is like a slap in the face to me.
And the important thing to retain is that both of you are right.
So... what does this tell us? That, since you can so easily avoid iron farms by just not building them, don't build them if they happen to get in the way of your enjoyment of the game. What you shouldn't do is force it on other people. I'm still at awe as to why for some people in these forums this simple basic concept of human decency is not being grasped.
How so? Iron farms are one more way Minecraft lets you kick physics square in the groin and simply create. You play a character who, if you've not defied physics in multiple ways, I doubt you've done anything with. Half of the environment you're supposed to be investing in is simply impossible in reality - your computer-LEGOs do their thing, not what makes sense.
First time you set a block against a wall or stood on a lily-pad, you broke physics. There's nothing to hold that there.
How many times have you used Minecraft's illogical water-physics to your advantage? How many times have you filled your metal bucket with lava that would destroy any bit of inventory you've ever had? Heck, how many times have you come within arm's reach of lava and not died from heat and poisonous gasses. How many times have you swum up a waterfall or survived a fatal fall by landing in one meter of water?
You are a LEGO dude in a LEGO world that follows its own twisted LEGO physics. When the game tries to be more like reality, that's when you lose the immersive value of entering a reality with its own rules.
Everyone should read this.
It is creative, but it is abusive as well to the point that the basic idea of the game, which is mining, is being nerfed by the very same people who wanted to have "fun" with hoarding iron.