I have an iron and gold farm in the overworld in the server i play with my friends. The iron nerf isn't as bad (it still very bad dont get me wrong) but the gold nerf is too much. If i let my gold farm afk for like 5 minutes the whole server collapses from lag. Iron golems spawn much less frequently than a host of pigmen in a gold farm with portals. If the iron farms just got nerfed, pigmen farms pretty much got killed...
What's the point of redstone if automation is 'cheating the game' and 'playing the game for you'?
"Mojang, please remove pistons! This game is Minecraft! Those players should be mining those blocks so they can get through, but pistons are moving them for them!"
Redstone is a huge component of the game. Every time Mojang makes a nerf like this, it becomes less 'worth it' to experience this huge portion of the game. If there were no way to farm anything, redstone would be virtually pointless in Survival, except maybe to move you from place to place (Mojang! Please remove minecarts! Those players should be exploring manually!).
You say that an iron farm is cheaty and requires no work. For the iron foundry, you need one thousand doors. That's several Minecraft days worth of logging in a large forest with a diamond axe. Then you need iron, redstone, stone, quartz, and obsidian for the circuitry, among other things. Then you need to know how to arrange it all together without any mistakes. After that, you need to a very long time amassing a large amount of villagers(Upwards of forty) into two tiny glass tubes. You now no longer need to mine iron ever again, as long as you make damn sure that a zombie never finds its way into there, because it will completely ruin all that work. You still need to mine for diamonds, emeralds, lapis, redstone, coal, and gold though, unless you put massive amounts of work into farming those that can be farmed as well.
Farming requires ingenuity. They reward intelligence. Nerfing iron farms is analogous to saying work harder, not smarter! And that's just dumb.
You could always go mine for iron and gold, in a game called Minecraft. Or, you know, just use machines to hurt the pigmen/golems first and kill them with a wooden sword to still get your drops.
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Thank you Team Mojang allow us to test the snapshots (if allowed via the launcher) and give our opinion on your forum or via such other media or famous players, here is my review:
Despite significant improvements in commands and modding, this snapshot 14w03 saddens me greatly with the disappearance of automated gold and iron factories (useful for making rails because there is needed for long distances without obligatory presence of a player).
Just as the absence of automatic craft to create tracks for example.
The hoppers have automated harvesting of items.
Orders mapmakings have significantly improved creations (unfortunately survival mode and adventure mode is excluded).
This is especially hard if the human resources are limited despite the amount of work to do and if you always want to deny access to to visitors and creative mode people recruited (servers).
You should know that a lot of objects (in real life, IRL) in this world are created using machine, which replaces all the workers squarely in some factories, such as production of LEGO toys.
I wish that removes these updates on PigZombie and Iron Golems, and enable future automation on crafts for example.
Moreover Aypierre, a famous French player (French community) agrees, he is angry about the decline in automatic plants.
Here is the video (in French):
I do not know English Youtubers of the same opinion.
Yeah, how dare Mojang fix an abuse of game mechanics!
I get a laugh here every update, last update I believe there were people were raging about Mojang fixing the sand generators.
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Don't worry about the iron farms, probably any genious will make an iron farm that you only need to do 1 hit with your hand for the iron to drop, but i think it will take a long time to make, since it will need lava and a much high place.
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Don't worry about the iron farms, probably any genious will make an iron farm that you only need to do 1 hit with your hand for the iron to drop, but i think it will take a long time to make, since it will need lava and a much high place.
Erm, meh, there are easier ways than Docm's. A crusher would be very simple.
Yeah, how dare Mojang fix an abuse of game mechanics!
I get a laugh here every update, last update I believe there were people were raging about Mojang fixing the sand generators.
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Personally I think mojang should stop trying to "fix" things like iron golem farms. It is only making the people who build them angry and the people who did not use them generally don't care or either dislike or like the change. Minecraft is a open sandbox game, People who want to should be able to build farms. People building iron farms and other mob farms are not affecting the game for other players in much or any ways. No one is forcing people to use the farms. Almost no one was angry that they were there, And quite a few people to say the least are angry over the fact they have been nerfed/removed.
Let's not even bring up the fact that now villagers are easily killed off now in general making people who wish to use them for trades at least slightly annoyed. (Well quite a few of them but not all.) Sure you can breed them by trading but that is if you can trade with them. Let's say you find a villager that needs emeralds and gravel to turn to flint, And one that needs emeralds and a diamond pick. Emeralds are rather hard to find, You could not have a diamond pick with you lest one that is not enchanted. not to mention the villagers could die in quite a few ways. even if they are inside I have seen villagers literally open doors and let zombies in that kill all those inside the house. And iron golems even outright ignore zombies sometimes.
Minecraft is a sandbox game where you are encouraged to build anything your hearts desire, So why are iron golem farms not with this "anything"? Well that is simple mojang just does not like it even though almost all players either like the farms. Or are not against them.
You could always go mine for iron and gold, in a game called Minecraft. Or, you know, just use machines to hurt the pigmen/golems first and kill them with a wooden sword to still get your drops.
You know, you have to CRAFT those machines to do those things for you. Crafting is just more than what you do in those little squares of your inventory or workbench.
There's two arguments that I laugh at when I read this thread:
1) This will reduce lag.
No it won't. People will just let the golems stack then wack them with a sword, or alter their mob farms then it's business as usual.
2) Automated farms are an abuse of the game mechanics.
This is a sandbox game. The entire point is to alter and manipulate your environment as you see fit. If you're having fun building mob grinders then the game is working as intended. This argument is just plain stupid. Even the developers disagree with you.
---
Really, I am just curious as to why Mojang changed this out of the blue. The reasons people are giving on this thread are pure speculation. The Devs have already stated they they are in support of mod grinders because it encourages "player ingenuity." It would be interesting to hear their thoughts on why they thought the change to be necessary.
Bad for people that like the challenge to create an automatic farm and all that
Good for people that want to encourage more role playing into the game(No farms, only doing stuff by hand)
I think we should have the option of choosing by using a gamerule on this
The only challenge in creating any mob farm is if you're the one who actually designed the thing. Most people just copy someone else's design.
And a game rule won't do any good due to the flaws in the village detection system that permit these things to exist in the first place. Until it becomes harder to get an iron golem outside a village, these things will continue to exist.
Unless the game rule was "irongolemsdropiron=false."
I never saw the point in iron farms anyway since you can get stacks in an hour of mining. But for the people who love making these farms it really sucks, and there is no point in nerfing it in singleplayer.
The point of any mob farm is to reap the rewards of playing the game without actually having to play the game in the first place. Why spend two hours caving to get a couple stacks of iron, when you can leave the game running and come back from work and and have ten?
Why spend a minecraft or two night hunting mobs to get thirty levels for an enchantment, when you can play another game for an hour, and then switch back and clean out your mob farm.
You hit a pigman and kill it, and receive gold. Other pigmen start attacking you.
Logical thought progression: I like the gold I get from this, but not the fact that all the other pigmen start attacking me. I should find a way to kill them without having to do it myself so it's less dangerous.
Minecraft's thought progression: I like the gold I get from this. I should build a machine that pools up hundreds upon hundreds of lag-causing entities in a single spot and punch them for that gold even though they'll all start attacking me.
I don't know why they bother making this things. Their fixes are awful and don't change anything. Everyone that has an iron or gold farm will just adapt the grinder to kill the mobs with one hit.
There wasn't any problem with iron golem farms in singleplayer. What is so bad about someone that likes the challenge and reward of making a fully functional farm that gives him resources? It is their world, they should be able to do whatever they want. And in multiplayer, you can just ban everyone that uses them.
Mojang should just stop with the phylosophy of "you must do everything by hand!". It is something stupid, their fixes don't do anything, and it is just encouraging players to grind.
There's two arguments that I laugh at when I read this thread:
1) This will reduce lag.
No it won't. People will just let the golems stack then wack them with a sword, or alter their mob farms then it's business as usual.
2) Automated farms are an abuse of the game mechanics.
This is a sandbox game. The entire point is to alter and manipulate your environment as you see fit. If you're having fun building mob grinders then the game is working as intended. This argument is just plain stupid. Even the developers disagree with you.
---
Really, I am just curious as to why Mojang changed this out of the blue. The reasons people are giving on this thread are pure speculation. The Devs have already stated they they are in support of mod grinders because it encourages "player ingenuity." It would be interesting to hear their thoughts on why they thought the change to be necessary.
Where did you read this? As far as I know, Mojang hates mob farms and mob grinders and considers them an "abuse of game mechanics". They have made a lot of changes to the behavior of hostile mobs to make mob farms more difficult to make and less desirable. For example, they changed mobs so that they wouldn't move after they were from a certain distance of the player. They created some drops that you can only get when killing mobs manually too. And they considered at some point in Beta to remove drops from mobs completely if you didn't kill them by hand.
MOJANG is ruining this game for me. As i see it, there are just a few types of player, adventurers, builders and engineers. They just nurfed all the engineers. I even know of some schools that were using or going to use Minecraft to teach engineering principles as part of their STEM programs. I was exited when they added the hoppers because I figured they were finally recognizing this group of players. I mean whats the point of hoppers if not for automation. I know FTB is an option, but FTB can be very unstable, slow to update to latest Minecraft versions and the changes in what mods are included can be a challenge to work around. Sorry for the rant, just very disappointed in this new direction the game has taken.
I really have no problem with the changes. We all know the game is going to keep changing and with that, we have to keep changing the way we do things. Just because a creation no longer works that exploited game mechanics should be no concern of Mojang or the player base. Either start mining iron (which is incredibly easy) or learn a new way to farm it. How do you think the first iron farm got started?
Why did they add Hoppers if they didnt want people to exploit the automation of certain farms?
Hoppers have lots of legitimate uses that don't exploit the game mechanics. You can use hoppers to set up a sorting and storage system, dump your inventory into one chest and the hoppers will move everything to it's corresponding storage chest. Another common use is setting up furnaces with hoppers, I use this to smelt dozens of stacks of cobblestone that I've mined. You can also build all sorts of interesting redstone contraptions which involve hoppers, I've made a lottery-style machine where you put a diamond in and have a 1 in 18 chance to win a diamond block. To say the hoppers were added to encourage exploit-style farming is naive and ignoring all of their other aspects.
I never saw the point in iron farms anyway since you can get stacks in an hour of mining. But for the people who love making these farms it really sucks, and there is no point in nerfing it in singleplayer.
Well if you need a full beacon pyramid then an iron golem farm is sure handy. That really requires massive amounts of iron.
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For the farm thing it should be up to the server administration to regulate the use of them.
This is the key to it all, right here.
They should have added controls to allow admins to better control their servers. This would have made everyone happy, and is the best solution.
You are not restricted to certain servers in multi-player. If the server you are on doesn't have a no auto-farming rule, then you can choose to move along.
All this talk about exploiting the mechanics. Really? In a game like Minecraft, where is the line between exploit and creativity?
What does Minecraft mean to you? Fully open sandbox, or limited game environment? You decide what you want to play I guess.
Mojang has fixed yet another game-breaking mechanic that pretty much eliminated any need to go mining? How dare they?!
In all seriousness, everyone will do what Mojang intended us to do in the first place and go caving. The only person I really feel sorry for now is TangoTek
You could always go mine for iron and gold, in a game called Minecraft. Or, you know, just use machines to hurt the pigmen/golems first and kill them with a wooden sword to still get your drops.
...but that's just like, my opinion, man.
Despite significant improvements in commands and modding, this snapshot 14w03 saddens me greatly with the disappearance of automated gold and iron factories (useful for making rails because there is needed for long distances without obligatory presence of a player).
Just as the absence of automatic craft to create tracks for example.
The hoppers have automated harvesting of items.
Orders mapmakings have significantly improved creations (unfortunately survival mode and adventure mode is excluded).
This is especially hard if the human resources are limited despite the amount of work to do and if you always want to deny access to to visitors and creative mode people recruited (servers).
You should know that a lot of objects (in real life, IRL) in this world are created using machine, which replaces all the workers squarely in some factories, such as production of LEGO toys.
I wish that removes these updates on PigZombie and Iron Golems, and enable future automation on crafts for example.
Moreover Aypierre, a famous French player (French community) agrees, he is angry about the decline in automatic plants.
Here is the video (in French):
I do not know English Youtubers of the same opinion.
I get a laugh here every update, last update I believe there were people were raging about Mojang fixing the sand generators.
Erm, meh, there are easier ways than Docm's. A crusher would be very simple.
Last update? That was a while ago my fine sir.
Was it? I said "I believe it was" because I wasn't exactly sure. Oh well.
Let's not even bring up the fact that now villagers are easily killed off now in general making people who wish to use them for trades at least slightly annoyed. (Well quite a few of them but not all.) Sure you can breed them by trading but that is if you can trade with them. Let's say you find a villager that needs emeralds and gravel to turn to flint, And one that needs emeralds and a diamond pick. Emeralds are rather hard to find, You could not have a diamond pick with you lest one that is not enchanted. not to mention the villagers could die in quite a few ways. even if they are inside I have seen villagers literally open doors and let zombies in that kill all those inside the house. And iron golems even outright ignore zombies sometimes.
Minecraft is a sandbox game where you are encouraged to build anything your hearts desire, So why are iron golem farms not with this "anything"? Well that is simple mojang just does not like it even though almost all players either like the farms. Or are not against them.
Oh, ok, sorry if I read it wrong.
You know, you have to CRAFT those machines to do those things for you. Crafting is just more than what you do in those little squares of your inventory or workbench.
1) This will reduce lag.
No it won't. People will just let the golems stack then wack them with a sword, or alter their mob farms then it's business as usual.
2) Automated farms are an abuse of the game mechanics.
This is a sandbox game. The entire point is to alter and manipulate your environment as you see fit. If you're having fun building mob grinders then the game is working as intended. This argument is just plain stupid. Even the developers disagree with you.
---
Really, I am just curious as to why Mojang changed this out of the blue. The reasons people are giving on this thread are pure speculation. The Devs have already stated they they are in support of mod grinders because it encourages "player ingenuity." It would be interesting to hear their thoughts on why they thought the change to be necessary.
The only challenge in creating any mob farm is if you're the one who actually designed the thing. Most people just copy someone else's design.
And a game rule won't do any good due to the flaws in the village detection system that permit these things to exist in the first place. Until it becomes harder to get an iron golem outside a village, these things will continue to exist.
Unless the game rule was "irongolemsdropiron=false."
Edit:
The point of any mob farm is to reap the rewards of playing the game without actually having to play the game in the first place. Why spend two hours caving to get a couple stacks of iron, when you can leave the game running and come back from work and and have ten?
Why spend a minecraft or two night hunting mobs to get thirty levels for an enchantment, when you can play another game for an hour, and then switch back and clean out your mob farm.
Logical thought progression: I like the gold I get from this, but not the fact that all the other pigmen start attacking me. I should find a way to kill them without having to do it myself so it's less dangerous.
Minecraft's thought progression: I like the gold I get from this. I should build a machine that pools up hundreds upon hundreds of lag-causing entities in a single spot and punch them for that gold even though they'll all start attacking me.
There wasn't any problem with iron golem farms in singleplayer. What is so bad about someone that likes the challenge and reward of making a fully functional farm that gives him resources? It is their world, they should be able to do whatever they want. And in multiplayer, you can just ban everyone that uses them.
Mojang should just stop with the phylosophy of "you must do everything by hand!". It is something stupid, their fixes don't do anything, and it is just encouraging players to grind.
Where did you read this? As far as I know, Mojang hates mob farms and mob grinders and considers them an "abuse of game mechanics". They have made a lot of changes to the behavior of hostile mobs to make mob farms more difficult to make and less desirable. For example, they changed mobs so that they wouldn't move after they were from a certain distance of the player. They created some drops that you can only get when killing mobs manually too. And they considered at some point in Beta to remove drops from mobs completely if you didn't kill them by hand.
Hoppers have lots of legitimate uses that don't exploit the game mechanics. You can use hoppers to set up a sorting and storage system, dump your inventory into one chest and the hoppers will move everything to it's corresponding storage chest. Another common use is setting up furnaces with hoppers, I use this to smelt dozens of stacks of cobblestone that I've mined. You can also build all sorts of interesting redstone contraptions which involve hoppers, I've made a lottery-style machine where you put a diamond in and have a 1 in 18 chance to win a diamond block. To say the hoppers were added to encourage exploit-style farming is naive and ignoring all of their other aspects.
Well if you need a full beacon pyramid then an iron golem farm is sure handy. That really requires massive amounts of iron.
Greetings,
Author of RFTools, RFTools Control, RFTools Dimensions, Deep Resonance, Immersive Craft, CombatHelp, NICE, Aqua Munda, Ariente, XNet, Interaction Wheel, The Lost Cities, Lost Souls, Need To Breathe, EFab, The One Probe and co-author of Not Enough Wands and RF Lux.
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This is the key to it all, right here.
They should have added controls to allow admins to better control their servers. This would have made everyone happy, and is the best solution.
You are not restricted to certain servers in multi-player. If the server you are on doesn't have a no auto-farming rule, then you can choose to move along.
All this talk about exploiting the mechanics. Really? In a game like Minecraft, where is the line between exploit and creativity?
What does Minecraft mean to you? Fully open sandbox, or limited game environment? You decide what you want to play I guess.
In all seriousness, everyone will do what Mojang intended us to do in the first place and go caving. The only person I really feel sorry for now is TangoTek