Good. The name of the game is Minecraft, not AFKcraft.
While it is certainly true that minecraft is a sandbox game, just because its a sandbox game doesn't make exploiting game mechanics anything but exploits.
Now, if this was simply a single player game, I wouldn't care. But this game has a rather huge multiplayer following, and I'm beginning to appreciate what a large drain on server resources AFK farms are.
XP farms drain away mobs from players who are actively hunting them.
Mob farms drain CPU cycles and RAM.
AFK players keep chunks loaded, draining bandwidth for both the Internet connection and the server's RAID array.
And of course there's the damage getting resources this way causes inflation.
I will shed no tears over fixing yet another exploit in this game.
There is a third issue, which may or may not be for keeps: I've been seeing reports that iron farms produce huge amounts of lag. It remains to be seen if that will be a permanent condition, or if it can be worked around by our happy crew of optimizers..
Been following the reports of lag around villages, and that may be fixed (https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-44890). Doors were evidently being counted hundreds of times each. So perhaps the next snapshot will address that problem.
Okay people, enough with the insults and senseless bickering......
To be technical iron/gold farms aren't entirely gone.... It's just the fully automated part that is gone.... the simple alternative based on current change logs is to find a way to kill them by your own hand... as in for efficiency you could either make the pigmen/iron golems one hit kill or lower their health enough that you can kill them with a harm/healing splash potion.
So yes... The use of iron/gold farms aren't lost...just the fully automated part that is.
Farms are for noobs that don't want to fight like normal players.
This statement is for the egotistical who don't realize this is a sandbox game or don't realize that work sometimes has to be made to make these farm OR that they prefer not to do tedious activities for minimal gain(sandbox).
I'm a bit confused by those stating the ability needed to be nerfed. HUH? While I've never created one of these famrs, i dont' understand why anyone outside the players world would care. Nothing we do or create in our worlds has any effect on or in anyone elses world. We don't compete with each other in anything. When we show or post our creations, there isn't any stats on how it was made. partly because no one would care. Heck, the game has a creative mode which givves a player anything in any amount. No one cares if you create someing using creative mode.
So . . . Why do others, or Mojang care how players acquire stuff in their private worlds? Why care?
They also just added some new commands tht allow duplication, and fill areas with blocks. I don't see any cries for these new commands to be nerfed, or considering them OP.
Is there a requirement in my sandbox game to collect resources (when on survival) only a certain way?
The sandbox isn't so open sandbox as you'd think it seems.
Just found the arguments against kind of odd.
This, just this. Everyone has the right to play the game as they want to. Exploiting game mechanics? Oh please, internet warriors, shut your mother f'ing trap. Has Mojang ever shown displeasure with mobs farms or the "exploits" of which you speak? You're not the owners of this game. No one cares about how you feel towards others who do use farms. When it comes down to it, everyone who complains about these farms feel like the game has to be played a certain way only, and if it's not played that way, you cry and cry and cry.
Let me remind everyone of something: MINECRAFT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE PLAYED IN A PARTICULAR WAY. EVERYONE CAN PLAY THE GAME HOW THEY WANT! It doesn't matter if you like how they play the game, we have every right to use mob farms, and everyone using the BS "but ur exploiting the game ermehgerd" are full of crap, and you know it. You know the real reason why you're against mob farms, and that's because you're upset that while you spend time going to mine iron, or going to mine something else, others just afk. Get over it.
This, just this. Everyone has the right to play the game as they want to. Exploiting game mechanics? Oh please, internet warriors, shut your mother f'ing trap. Has Mojang ever shown displeasure with mobs farms or the "exploits" of which you speak?
Yes, yes Mojang showed displeasure with people using automated iron/gold farms. That's why they nerfed it.
You're not the owners of this game. No one cares about how you feel towards others who do use farms. When it comes down to it, everyone who complains about these farms feel like the game has to be played a certain way only, and if it's not played that way, you cry and cry and cry.
We are aware of the fact we don't own this game, and it is clear the developers, who, happen to own the game, decided that the 'certain way' they wanted the game to be played did not involve automated iron farms. I don't see anyone who agrees with the developers decision to change the farms on this thread that is crying.
Let me remind everyone of something: MINECRAFT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE PLAYED IN A PARTICULAR WAY. EVERYONE CAN PLAY THE GAME HOW THEY WANT! It doesn't matter if you like how they play the game, we have every right to use mob farms, and everyone using the BS "but ur exploiting the game ermehgerd" are full of crap, and you know it. You know the real reason why you're against mob farms, and that's because you're upset that while you spend time going to mine iron, or going to mine something else, others just afk. Get over it.
Yes. Minecraft does not have to be played in a particular way. You can play the game how you want. All this is true. But there is a difference between playing by yourself and with others. In multiplayer, iron farms are overpowered. Because of this, whoever builds an iron farm first will slowly begin to dominate over the other masses of players (Especially in PvP scenarios). Since the other players are at such disadvantage, they will be forced to create an iron farm to keep up. Explain to me how this is fair on everyone else, and how is allows everyone to play the game as they wish? Should people feel they can play how they like knowing they won't be at a such massive disadvantage? Bottom line is that the farms are exploiting the game and it is not fair.
Others who are pro-iron farms complain that it is so hard to go out and mine, and they claim they have to work sooo hard to gather the required materials to create the farm in the first place. Who knows, maybe if you invested that time mining, you would have a decent amount of iron to begin your 'massive builds.'
Yes. Minecraft does not have to be played in a particular way. You can play the game how you want. All this is true. But there is a difference between playing by yourself and with others. In multiplayer, iron farms are overpowered. Because of this, whoever builds an iron farm first will slowly begin to dominate over the other masses of players (Especially in PvP scenarios). Since the other players are at such disadvantage, they will be forced to create an iron farm to keep up. Explain to me how this is fair on everyone else, and how is allows everyone to play the game as they wish? Should people feel they can play how they like knowing they won't be at a such massive disadvantage? Bottom line is that the farms are exploiting the game and it is not fair.
There are things called rules that a server owner can make..... One of those rules could be that iron farms are prohibited.... so that argument on multi-player is basically BS.
What about Skyblock games? No natural resources there. The only way to get iron is to endlessly repeat a tedious challenge or to make an iron farm.
True, but just know that skyblock isn't vanilla and Mojang is mostly making changes for the game in the context of vanilla mode.
Also there are two things to recognize
1. Iron farms are not totally broken, just the part where it's completely automated. Instead of just afking you now just have to afk and then either kill them by hand (made easy if you use a one punch method) or use a harming potion.
2. Since skyblock isn't vanilla I'm assuming you aren't playing vanilla but using mods/plugins. With this in mind you can use mods to revert the change back to what it once was before. Of course since iron farms are not broken just nerfed you probably don't need to revert unless you feel one hit punches or splash potions are too much of a hassle.
They nerfed it but you can still make them and have them work, just not fully automated.
There are things called rules that a server owner can make..... One of those rules could be that iron farms are prohibited.... so that argument on multi-player is basically BS.
Yes I'm aware you can still make iron farms. So I find it even more ridiculous that people are kicking up such a stink.
As for the multiplayer, that is indeed possible, I will admit. But, having being admin on a server myself it is unlikely many servers will actually do this. Look how many players got upset here?
The thing is, Minecraft isn't just a single-player game. While you and I are playing in private worlds, others are playing on shared servers, often with dozens of players -- and not always cooperatively. With full-auto farms, anyone who has an iron farm has unlimited iron, period -- they can hang out anywhere within chunk range, and just drop by every so often to empty out the chests. (Or, by the same token, so can a thief.) Likewise for gold (ZPs), just a bit slower.
The nerf hasn't completely destroyed farms, but they're now harder to make on at least two counts:
The villager changes mean you can't just drop in a few pairs of villagers and let them breed, now you need more effort to get enough villagers in there.
And the kicker, which is what we're discussing here: They can't run unattended. A player can probably (see below) still build such a farm, but now they need to end it with a crusher (or for iron, a lava blade) -- and they need to actually hang out and finish the golems/ZPs off themselves to collect their loot, rather than a quick pickup and running off to lord it over the other players.
There is a third issue, which may or may not be for keeps: I've been seeing reports that iron farms produce huge amounts of lag. It remains to be seen if that will be a permanent condition, or if it can be worked around by our happy crew of optimizers..
For the farm thing it should be up to the server administration to regulate the use of them.
This won't do much to my iron farm. Sure I won't be able to leave and have it still running but I'm still able to have it automatic without using potions or one hitting them. It's a mere minor inconvenience.
Yes I'm aware you can still make iron farms. So I find it even more ridiculous that people are kicking up such a stink.
As for the multiplayer, that is indeed possible, I will admit. But, having being admin on a server myself it is unlikely many servers will actually do this. Look how many players got upset here?
Look how many got upset? What kind of bull is that? I have seen many successful servers with iron farms not allowed or even those with more strict rules. Honestly if you don't want them on your server then ban the iron farms. Simple as that. It's just like the rule where one shouldn't have so many animals in one chunk or something.
Look how many got upset? What kind of bull is that? I have seen many successful servers with iron farms not allowed or even those with more strict rules. Honestly if you don't want them on your server then ban the iron farms. Simple as that. It's just like the rule where one shouldn't have so many animals in one chunk or something.
Are you serious dude? You only have to scroll through the comments on this thread to see how many people are upset about the change to farms.
The server I was an admin on doesn't exist anymore. And if you ever become admin, I hope you enjoy personally exploring every single player's base to discover any hidden iron farms. If some servers ban iron farms, great! That is fantastic. But this will not always be the case. The developers didn't 'balance' the game around the assurance that people will have a iron farm.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep."
- Lord Tywin Lannister
So I'll make one little change to my iron farm. I'll have to open the kill box, take out the ram that hits them in the head and crushes them. And I'll have to kill them with a punch or sword (most likely with fortune 3).
I'll still remain AFK wile it's running and collecting golems. I'll just have to spend a few more minutes whacking the golems before I collect the iron.
It's not that I can't dig a giant hole in the ground, not like I can't find enough iron by digging. It's that I chose to build a farm so I don't have to dig. Once you have dug out (I don't know a half million blocks) I don't think I'm obligated to keep digging.
I mined....I crafted...
So ya, I'm miffed that Mojang felt the need to monkey with the mechanics. But it's their game. Someone, if not me, will find a suitable work around. Even if we simply hack the game and change it back.
I read somewhere that they don't mind farms, but they don't want the perception that farms are required. This I can agree on, because they are hard to build, complex, and in general a pain in the butt. They only really pay off over longer periods of time. And I don't think the average player would need, want, or have to build them.
And if it's because of the lag on a multi player environment that should be delt with by the server admin. A simple "Shut it down or we will and you can find a new home" should suffice to stop lagging.
And if we are worried about some fairness of resources. Why not build a public farm where you just drop by and pick up what you need. That's how community works after all. The individual works for the betterment of the hole.
O well. Like many have said. We'll just whack them with a sword, and collect our stuff.
I find this an interesting topic in a way. There have been 'bugs' in the past too that many people considered exploits. For example, in older versions of Minecraft it was possible to duplicate blocks (like diamond blocks for example) with a clever contraption made with well timed pistons. I guess few people objected to that exploit being removed as it is clearly very overpowered to be able to duplicate diamonds that easily. The automated iron golem farm is in a way another example of that. The comparison isn't perfect because an iron golem farm is much more complicated to build but still there is an exploit in the game which players take advantage of. In a way it is unfortunate that they fix these 'bugs' because clever mechanisms invented by clever people now stop working. But on the other hand the game was never supposed to allow these things in the first place. And you *can* actually keep on playing an older version if you actually insist on these features working.
I also have an iron golem farm in my current world. I'm probably going to modify it so that the golems are brought back to a single (or a few) hit kills and then I'm going to kill the manually. It is not such a big deal really.
Greetings,
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of RFTools, RFTools Control, RFTools Dimensions, Deep Resonance, Immersive Craft, CombatHelp, NICE, Aqua Munda, Ariente, XNet, Interaction Wheel, The Lost Cities, Lost Souls, Need To Breathe, EFab, The One Probe and co-author of Not Enough Wands and RF Lux.
What's the point of redstone if automation is 'cheating the game' and 'playing the game for you'?
"Mojang, please remove pistons! This game is Minecraft! Those players should be mining those blocks so they can get through, but pistons are moving them for them!"
Redstone is a huge component of the game. Every time Mojang makes a nerf like this, it becomes less 'worth it' to experience this huge portion of the game. If there were no way to farm anything, redstone would be virtually pointless in Survival, except maybe to move you from place to place (Mojang! Please remove minecarts! Those players should be exploring manually!).
You say that an iron farm is cheaty and requires no work. For the iron foundry, you need one thousand doors. That's several Minecraft days worth of logging in a large forest with a diamond axe. Then you need iron, redstone, stone, quartz, and obsidian for the circuitry, among other things. Then you need to know how to arrange it all together without any mistakes. After that, you need to a very long time amassing a large amount of villagers(Upwards of forty) into two tiny glass tubes. You now no longer need to mine iron ever again, as long as you make damn sure that a zombie never finds its way into there, because it will completely ruin all that work. You still need to mine for diamonds, emeralds, lapis, redstone, coal, and gold though, unless you put massive amounts of work into farming those that can be farmed as well.
Farming requires ingenuity. They reward intelligence. Nerfing iron farms is analogous to saying work harder, not smarter! And that's just dumb.
Praise be to Spode.
While it is certainly true that minecraft is a sandbox game, just because its a sandbox game doesn't make exploiting game mechanics anything but exploits.
Now, if this was simply a single player game, I wouldn't care. But this game has a rather huge multiplayer following, and I'm beginning to appreciate what a large drain on server resources AFK farms are.
XP farms drain away mobs from players who are actively hunting them.
Mob farms drain CPU cycles and RAM.
AFK players keep chunks loaded, draining bandwidth for both the Internet connection and the server's RAID array.
And of course there's the damage getting resources this way causes inflation.
I will shed no tears over fixing yet another exploit in this game.
Been following the reports of lag around villages, and that may be fixed (https://mojang.atlassian.net/browse/MC-44890). Doors were evidently being counted hundreds of times each. So perhaps the next snapshot will address that problem.
Farms are for noobs that don't want to fight like normal players.
To be technical iron/gold farms aren't entirely gone.... It's just the fully automated part that is gone.... the simple alternative based on current change logs is to find a way to kill them by your own hand... as in for efficiency you could either make the pigmen/iron golems one hit kill or lower their health enough that you can kill them with a harm/healing splash potion.
So yes... The use of iron/gold farms aren't lost...just the fully automated part that is.
This statement is for the egotistical who don't realize this is a sandbox game or don't realize that work sometimes has to be made to make these farm OR that they prefer not to do tedious activities for minimal gain(sandbox).
Makes sense considering 99% of the user base are little squeakers.
This, just this. Everyone has the right to play the game as they want to. Exploiting game mechanics? Oh please, internet warriors, shut your mother f'ing trap. Has Mojang ever shown displeasure with mobs farms or the "exploits" of which you speak? You're not the owners of this game. No one cares about how you feel towards others who do use farms. When it comes down to it, everyone who complains about these farms feel like the game has to be played a certain way only, and if it's not played that way, you cry and cry and cry.
Let me remind everyone of something: MINECRAFT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE PLAYED IN A PARTICULAR WAY. EVERYONE CAN PLAY THE GAME HOW THEY WANT! It doesn't matter if you like how they play the game, we have every right to use mob farms, and everyone using the BS "but ur exploiting the game ermehgerd" are full of crap, and you know it. You know the real reason why you're against mob farms, and that's because you're upset that while you spend time going to mine iron, or going to mine something else, others just afk. Get over it.
We are aware of the fact we don't own this game, and it is clear the developers, who, happen to own the game, decided that the 'certain way' they wanted the game to be played did not involve automated iron farms. I don't see anyone who agrees with the developers decision to change the farms on this thread that is crying.
Yes. Minecraft does not have to be played in a particular way. You can play the game how you want. All this is true. But there is a difference between playing by yourself and with others. In multiplayer, iron farms are overpowered. Because of this, whoever builds an iron farm first will slowly begin to dominate over the other masses of players (Especially in PvP scenarios). Since the other players are at such disadvantage, they will be forced to create an iron farm to keep up. Explain to me how this is fair on everyone else, and how is allows everyone to play the game as they wish? Should people feel they can play how they like knowing they won't be at a such massive disadvantage? Bottom line is that the farms are exploiting the game and it is not fair.
Others who are pro-iron farms complain that it is so hard to go out and mine, and they claim they have to work sooo hard to gather the required materials to create the farm in the first place. Who knows, maybe if you invested that time mining, you would have a decent amount of iron to begin your 'massive builds.'
Sorry, who's squeaking?
- Lord Tywin Lannister
They nerfed it but you can still make them and have them work, just not fully automated.
There are things called rules that a server owner can make..... One of those rules could be that iron farms are prohibited.... so that argument on multi-player is basically BS.
True, but just know that skyblock isn't vanilla and Mojang is mostly making changes for the game in the context of vanilla mode.
Also there are two things to recognize
1. Iron farms are not totally broken, just the part where it's completely automated. Instead of just afking you now just have to afk and then either kill them by hand (made easy if you use a one punch method) or use a harming potion.
2. Since skyblock isn't vanilla I'm assuming you aren't playing vanilla but using mods/plugins. With this in mind you can use mods to revert the change back to what it once was before. Of course since iron farms are not broken just nerfed you probably don't need to revert unless you feel one hit punches or splash potions are too much of a hassle.
As for the multiplayer, that is indeed possible, I will admit. But, having being admin on a server myself it is unlikely many servers will actually do this. Look how many players got upset here?
- Lord Tywin Lannister
For the farm thing it should be up to the server administration to regulate the use of them.
Venit, quessit, induravit.
Look how many got upset? What kind of bull is that? I have seen many successful servers with iron farms not allowed or even those with more strict rules. Honestly if you don't want them on your server then ban the iron farms. Simple as that. It's just like the rule where one shouldn't have so many animals in one chunk or something.
The server I was an admin on doesn't exist anymore. And if you ever become admin, I hope you enjoy personally exploring every single player's base to discover any hidden iron farms. If some servers ban iron farms, great! That is fantastic. But this will not always be the case. The developers didn't 'balance' the game around the assurance that people will have a iron farm.
- Lord Tywin Lannister
I'll still remain AFK wile it's running and collecting golems. I'll just have to spend a few more minutes whacking the golems before I collect the iron.
It's not that I can't dig a giant hole in the ground, not like I can't find enough iron by digging. It's that I chose to build a farm so I don't have to dig. Once you have dug out (I don't know a half million blocks) I don't think I'm obligated to keep digging.
I mined....I crafted...
So ya, I'm miffed that Mojang felt the need to monkey with the mechanics. But it's their game. Someone, if not me, will find a suitable work around. Even if we simply hack the game and change it back.
I read somewhere that they don't mind farms, but they don't want the perception that farms are required. This I can agree on, because they are hard to build, complex, and in general a pain in the butt. They only really pay off over longer periods of time. And I don't think the average player would need, want, or have to build them.
And if it's because of the lag on a multi player environment that should be delt with by the server admin. A simple "Shut it down or we will and you can find a new home" should suffice to stop lagging.
And if we are worried about some fairness of resources. Why not build a public farm where you just drop by and pick up what you need. That's how community works after all. The individual works for the betterment of the hole.
O well. Like many have said. We'll just whack them with a sword, and collect our stuff.
I also have an iron golem farm in my current world. I'm probably going to modify it so that the golems are brought back to a single (or a few) hit kills and then I'm going to kill the manually. It is not such a big deal really.
Greetings,
Author of RFTools, RFTools Control, RFTools Dimensions, Deep Resonance, Immersive Craft, CombatHelp, NICE, Aqua Munda, Ariente, XNet, Interaction Wheel, The Lost Cities, Lost Souls, Need To Breathe, EFab, The One Probe and co-author of Not Enough Wands and RF Lux.
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"Mojang, please remove pistons! This game is Minecraft! Those players should be mining those blocks so they can get through, but pistons are moving them for them!"
Redstone is a huge component of the game. Every time Mojang makes a nerf like this, it becomes less 'worth it' to experience this huge portion of the game. If there were no way to farm anything, redstone would be virtually pointless in Survival, except maybe to move you from place to place (Mojang! Please remove minecarts! Those players should be exploring manually!).
You say that an iron farm is cheaty and requires no work. For the iron foundry, you need one thousand doors. That's several Minecraft days worth of logging in a large forest with a diamond axe. Then you need iron, redstone, stone, quartz, and obsidian for the circuitry, among other things. Then you need to know how to arrange it all together without any mistakes. After that, you need to a very long time amassing a large amount of villagers(Upwards of forty) into two tiny glass tubes. You now no longer need to mine iron ever again, as long as you make damn sure that a zombie never finds its way into there, because it will completely ruin all that work. You still need to mine for diamonds, emeralds, lapis, redstone, coal, and gold though, unless you put massive amounts of work into farming those that can be farmed as well.
Farming requires ingenuity. They reward intelligence. Nerfing iron farms is analogous to saying work harder, not smarter! And that's just dumb.