If Mojang isn't going to put out an API unless it's server-only and complete, then we'll never see it. It can't be done. Minecraft is at its core a SSP game and they would really have to rewrite everything to do it all server-side. And worse, Minecraft is a demanding game and the server is not going to be able to do it all. They could, in a reasonable length of time, release a universal API which is relatively complete; or they could release a limited API which works server-side. But not both.
Since 1.3 SSP and SMP are the same, as SSP uses an internal server, nearly everything is done on the server know anyways, only rendering and other UI stuff as well as some prediction stuff i think(which i don't know how they are going to deal with). They have been rewriting the system since the SSP/SMP merge.
I see this argument thrown quite frequently. Taking small steps as opposed to just taking the leap.
The act of programming is, for all purposes, a constant exercise in taking small steps to solve a problem. What is however missing from your argument is that the act of programming is also an exercise in scheduling. Tasks do have a start and do get finished. In useful time. And when you see that there isn't even a single line of code written for the plugin API yet, you can argue over and over again about the fact they are working on code that will make it happen.
For the past 4 years they have been eating that elephant one byte at a time. And that is exactly the problem. In case you have forgotten, someone out there, without direct access to the source code and without a monthly salary from Mojang, already ate your elephant one megabyte at a time. They gave us Forge, one step at a time.
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I was trying to think of a signature and this is what came up.
I want to attempt to be optimistic, so here we go.
I think that, at the moment, Mojang is not working on the API - they are building the engine to more easily make it. This, in my eyes, explains all of the "technically" and "sort of" comments we've been getting.
However, one has to wonder whether they are, in fact, doing this. If they outright told us if they wre working on it or not, and if so would they ever resume progress, it would greatly simplify matters.
However, I know very little about Java, only the most basic of commands, so I'm probably getting a few facts wrong.
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Pointing out fallacies to undermine an argument is also a fallacy...
Since 1.3 SSP and SMP are the same, as SSP uses an internal server, nearly everything is done on the server know anyways, only rendering and other UI stuff as well as some prediction stuff i think(which i don't know how they are going to deal with). They have been rewriting the system since the SSP/SMP merge.
"Only" rendering includes quite a lot actually. In MCP terms, block.colorMultiplier and block.getIcon are client-side methods that are commonly overridden by subclasses for example. Moving these calculations to the server would require another rewrite on the scale of the original SSP/SMP merge, with the result of adding still more load on the server and increasing the amount of traffic going to each client.
So, realistically, if modders are to add new blocks to the game, they will need a way to override those client-side methods too. I have to agree with Zeno410. A server-only API will either be severely limited or never see the light of day.
Since 1.3 SSP and SMP are the same, as SSP uses an internal server, nearly everything is done on the server know anyways, only rendering and other UI stuff as well as some prediction stuff i think(which i don't know how they are going to deal with). They have been rewriting the system since the SSP/SMP merge.
Not quite. While the code base is identical in terms of things like block & terrain generation or what classes performed tasks like weather effects (this was a real pain in the behind prior to 1.3), from a modding point of view there still are some substantial differences between SSP and SMP.
The key component to making that happen indeed would be transmitting block models, ID "handles" (including block names and internal code values), as well as texture data including transmitting image files from the server to the client. At the moment the assumption is that everybody has all of the Minecraft image assets (or their own private texture packs.... arguably a form of modding by itself that already is a "plug-in") and there is no need to transmit that information. This is why modded Minecraft servers with custom blocks still need a client-side patch.
Another huge thing that it seems like Mojang at least in the past talked about is a sort of "everything is a plug-in" concept where even basic blocks like a stone block or a dirt block are plug-ins.... supplied by default and installed automatically when you install or upgrade Minecraft direct from Mojang but still plug-ins none the less. I hope this is the direction that Jeb and Dinnerbone are going to take the API as it would be the kind of flexibility that I am looking for. This folds into the block data transmittal from servers to clients naturally as if everything is a plug-in, everything would also need to be transmitted from the server to the client to permit clients to "learn" what blocks exist on that server from even the most humble and basic blocks.
I would even dare say that some performance gains and certainly some major bug fixes might even happen doing this strictly because the data is going to be encapsulated much better with a strict firewall between block data and the core engine. It is easy as a software developer to get lazy and throw exceptions and quirky little hacks into the core part of your software simply to get the job done at the moment. Minecraft is full of these little "hacks" that Notch randomly threw in as he was developing the game (and driving the current developers nuts over trying to fish them out).
Regardless, this almost seems like Minecraft 2.0 territory, which is where comments like that of Zeno410 above seem to be spot on about. I still insist that all of this is irrelevant to the basic goal of producing an API even if they are laudable goals by themselves. It every well may require a clean-sheet rewrite of the whole game. If Mojang is going to spend those kind of resources and effort, they might as well charge players for a new version of the game as well.
Client side modding is there. You put your stuff into the resource pack to the place where you would put it into the jar (at least assets doing this right now).This is why priority is there, so 2 mods can't change the same thing, the lower mod will be ignored (if you have 2 world generator, the game will not crash,just ignore the second one).
Server side modding. Well, still nothing, only the way how assets being sent to the client. The server can recommend a resource pack, to download and use.
The dry bones of the API is there. Script will come after they fished the data from the core engine, so you will have to do the coding once, not in all stages of the rewrite (whitch happens now with forge/bukkit).
Resource packs are NOT mods, at least in the sense that they change how the game actually works, only changing the icing on the cake, so to speak, and don't change/replace/plug into any actual code.
Also, I doubt that scripts can do complex things like change terrain generation, especially not with any efficiency; raw code is necessary for that (granted, simple changes can be done by simply modifying a variable, like when you change the frequency of structures in Superflat; you are simply overriding defaults, but the game has to provide easy access to them).
Really, four years? When are you saying "work" on the API supposedly started? Was Notch doing a lot of work on it?
I guess he could have talked about eventually doing it at some point, but from what I know there was no official mention of actual work on it until Jeb took over, which was just a little over two years ago (release of 1.0).
People's sense of time when it comes to Minecraft seems a bit off sometimes. Four years ago in March 2010 Notch had just released Infdev. Just saying.
Not that I don't agree that it would be nice to hear of some progress soon.
If you look back at a previous post I made, Beta 1.0 (I assume you are referring to release 1.0) had a "mods" button (mods and texture packs, as if they were two different things).
Also, from Notch himself on a mod API, explaining the button I pointed out. The date? December 2010, and he did say that they were adding support for a mod API, not just planning on one (which apparently went way off track). Of course, he also said that future updates wouldn't be free anymore (unless you bought it before they changed the license), and that didn't happen.
They are in fact working on new mob mentality to make the creepers and skeletons more intellegent, the snapshots already show tests of this. they are working to be almost as smart as the zombies.
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They are in fact working on new mob mentality to make the creepers and skeletons more intellegent, the snapshots already show tests of this. they are working to be almost as smart as the zombies.
I just hope this doesn't mean that getting music discs in survival will be impossible now...
Really, four years? When are you saying "work" on the API supposedly started? Was Notch doing a lot of work on it?
I guess he could have talked about eventually doing it at some point, but from what I know there was no official mention of actual work on it until Jeb took over, which was just a little over two years ago (release of 1.0).
People's sense of time when it comes to Minecraft seems a bit off sometimes. Four years ago in March 2010 Notch had just released Infdev. Just saying.
Check out my post (Posted 16 January 2014 - 10:15 PM) earlier this thread.
I’m going to open up some kind of api for the server to let people write plugins easier than to fiddle with stderr and stdin.
In June 2011, Notch said "After 1.8 [BETA 1.8!!!!!], we’ll have to start crunching for the full release in November. That includes finishing up the mod api,"
Note the phrase- "Finishing up the mod api". Note the date- 2.5 years ago.
They are in fact working on new mob mentality to make the creepers and skeletons more intellegent, the snapshots already show tests of this. they are working to be almost as smart as the zombies.
Actually, those already were upgraded to the "new" AI (introduced back in 2012, hardly "new" anymore); what they are upgrading is Endermen, spiders, slimes, and zombie pigmen; for example, in the current release they mindlessly run off cliffs or into lava to their doom trying to get to you, but the existing new AI mobs don't do that, including creepers and skeletons, which are even smarter than zombies (e.g. zombies run out into the sun and burn trying to reach you, skeletons remain under trees even if it means they can't reach you).
Although from what I've seen they have just made things worse (except zombie pigmen), Endermen in particular, unless they fixed it in a recent snapshot (they would just stand in water/lava/rain and die; spiders and slimes still jumped to their deaths, the latter even just jumping around when non-aggro'ed, and spiders no longer tracked you through walls; these mobs obviously need new "tasks" defined for their abilities (that's how the "new" AI works, there is a list of "tasks" in the code, such as swimming, pathfinding, attacking, etc).
I think what bugs me about you guys who keep demanding the API is that you aren't trying to see eye-to-eye with Mojang anymore, but rather have turned into stubborn mules who dislike so much as a slight glance away from development on it. I can understand the dislike of the long wait or the annoyance you get from the constant promises, but please for the love of god try to understand that they are trying their best to please EVERYONE who plays the damn game.
There are young children who don't even know what the word plugin means who play the game who just want goofy mobs like bats and witches and Jeb has tried to please them. There are long-time players who wanted the old spontaneous and unique terrain back, and Jeb put forth an effort for them. People disliked the lighting glitches and Dinnerbone REWROTE the entire lighting engine for them. Map makers wanted more control and so Mojang made them a ton new blocks and redstone mechanics. This is progress outside of the API they have made because you thankless fools asked for it.
You still through all of that and the sluggish progression towards the API cannot be the slightest be thankful in the tone or way you talk about Mojang. You can be upset and a little restless but you do not deserve this API in the slightest bit with the way these devs have been treated. You should expect their promises and hope for their progress, but you should not expect them to bend face-forward at your will. You can expect them to be a little selfish with their time, but you do not get to be obnoxiously selfish about how they use their time.
These guys are continually revising an already released game for free. Minecraft is one of the rarest games purely for this fact. You should learn to appreciate it for the rare gem that it is, and quit complaining and instead ask for more details in a respectful and deserving manner. They don't want to answer you because you guys are talking like you have the power to shut down Minecraft's servers forever. They don't want to keep working on it because you are being ungrateful, and rightfully so you should be delayed in your reward.
I think what bugs me about you guys who keep demanding the API is that you aren't trying to see eye-to-eye with Mojang anymore, but rather have turned into stubborn mules who dislike so much as a slight glance away from development on it. I can understand the dislike of the long wait or the annoyance you get from the constant promises, but please for the love of god try to understand that they are trying their best to please EVERYONE who plays the damn game.
First of all, I have my deep reservations that they are working on it at all, which is the point of this thread. As I pointed out abundantly, Mojang has stopped talking with the community on any level, and certainly not communicating with those who will ultimately be using this plug-in API if it ever gets developed: the current mod developers themselves.
These guys are continually revising an already released game for free. Minecraft is one of the rarest games purely for this fact. You should learn to appreciate it for the rare gem that it is, and quit complaining and instead ask for more details in a respectful and deserving manner. They don't want to answer you because you guys are talking like you have the power to shut down Minecraft's servers forever. They don't want to keep working on it because you are being ungrateful, and rightfully so you should be delayed in your reward.
As a point in fact, I have paid for two additional copies of Minecraft over this past year (at full price), in spite of the fact that I originally purchased the Beta 1.3 back so many years ago. Part of the reason for that is so my kids and I can play together in a multi-player world, but I seriously doubt that I would have done that if it wasn't for the continued content updates and changes that have been made in Minecraft. I am considering buying yet another copy between now and Christmas, so I think you can put to rest this whole argument "you get free updates for life", which isn't true either. I don't mind supporting Mojang, and I will buy other products of theirs in the future too if they continue some level of support for those products like they have with Minecraft.
This is a long-term thing and not so shallow as you are portraying it right now.
Besides, one of the major drivers of people playing Minecraft is the mods. This is something acknowledged by Notch when he announced the API originally, and I think it may very well be the death of Minecraft if it doesn't get released sooner than later. I dare say a business case can be presented that some resources should be put into developing the API on an ongoing basis, at least while Minecraft continues to be profitable for Mojang.
I have respect fully made requests about the API in the appropriate forums. I guess I didn't attend MineCon this last year and asked Jeb point blank if they care to receive any more thoughtful and reasoned suggestions about the API and if any of the greenlit suggestions will ever be developed. In some ways I am asking for communication here. Regardless, I'm moving on and have stopped making mods for Minecraft myself, in spite of the fact that I have several ideas I would love to create that haven't been done yet by anybody. That is Mojang's loss, not mine.
Besides, one of the major drivers of people playing Minecraft is the mods. This is something acknowledged by Notch when he announced the API originally, and I think it may very well be the death of Minecraft if it doesn't get released sooner than later. I dare say a business case can be presented that some resources should be put into developing the API on an ongoing basis, at least while Minecraft continues to be profitable for Mojang.
So what your saying, is that, the updates ruled as your ultimate buying point and that you as an pretentious consumer feel they should be obligated to cater to your very will in devoting unnecessary resources to better tend to an already released product because they said they were working on something, but it isn't getting done fast enough. Yes, I was so entirely and blatantly wrong. And you're right, Mods will be the entire focus of the game further on, I don't see how that ends its life-cycle.
I have respect fully made requests about the API in the appropriate forums. I guess I didn't attend MineCon this last year and asked Jeb point blank if they care to receive any more thoughtful and reasoned suggestions about the API and if any of the greenlit suggestions will ever be developed. In some ways I am asking for communication here. Regardless, I'm moving on and have stopped making mods for Minecraft myself, in spite of the fact that I have several ideas I would love to create that haven't been done yet by anybody. That is Mojang's loss, not mine.
No, no, no. You don't understand. You don't just get this stuff. You are given it in the same way you get free products in Costco and similar stores. They aren't doing this to please you, or to tickle your god damn fancy and you're a complete and utter ***** for even assuming that. These devs could be making an insanely huge profit simply by charging CENTS for each damn update but don't, because the goodness in their hearts makes them feel better, and that it works great as a marketing ploy. You don't deserve it, nor should Mojang devote more than a very small team to the furthering of Minecraft, because in reality, this game has already made them a lot of money, and future updates are just to keep us hooked. If you don't like this, you can complain, you can boycott, but in no way whatsoever are you entitled to having more resources devoted to your pathetically obsessive desire.
No, no, no. You don't understand. You don't just get this stuff. You are given it in the same way you get free products in Costco and similar stores. They aren't doing this to please you, or to tickle your god damn fancy and you're a complete and utter ***** for even assuming that. These devs could be making an insanely huge profit simply by charging CENTS for each damn update but don't, because the goodness in their hearts makes them feel better, and that it works great as a marketing ploy. You don't deserve it, nor should Mojang devote more than a very small team to the furthering of Minecraft, because in reality, this game has already made them a lot of money, and future updates are just to keep us hooked. If you don't like this, you can complain, you can boycott, but in no way whatsoever are you entitled to having more resources devoted to your pathetically obsessive desire.
You're right.
No, really, you are right. Mojang has absolutely no obligation to give us anything. We paid for a complete game, and they provided that (at least by definition) in November of 2011 when Version 1.0 (non-beta) was released.
That doesn't change the fact that, by NOT getting their crap together, and getting an API out to the community, they are alienating a VERY large portion of their player-base (those that mod) by causing a situation where game mods (or "plugins", for the semantics-demanding butt-clowns out there) are dying a slow death. Due to the various issues already mentioned several times in this thread, the modding community is dwindling as the process of altering the game has been getting more difficult. There's several things Mojang could be doing to help this situation, but one of the big ones would be to get this API out to the community.
So yes, you're right, they have no obligation to work on it, or get anything to us in a timely fashion, or even ever for that matter. But they are stupid if they continue to ignore what a lack of mod (or plugin) support is going to do to their community, and hence, future sales of their game.
So what your saying, is that, the updates ruled as your ultimate buying point and that you as an pretentious consumer feel they should be obligated to cater to your very will in devoting unnecessary resources to better tend to an already released product because they said they were working on something, but it isn't getting done fast enough. Yes, I was so entirely and blatantly wrong. And you're right, Mods will be the entire focus of the game further on, I don't see how that ends its life-cycle.
There is a world of difference between working on something that takes time and something that isn't even being worked upon. And yes, mods have been a major reason why I bought additional copies of Minecraft as it has allowed me to customize content on the worlds that I'm building with others. In other words, it helps me to play the game in the way I want to play.
Why is that such a major crime? If you have ever been in a business, you should know that "the customer is always right". If you want to make money, you follow what your customers want. I'm not saying that I am insisting upon this, but I am suggesting it is a way that Mojang can capitalize upon their existing assets and be able to continue to earn more money in the future.
No, no, no. You don't understand. You don't just get this stuff.
I think I understand this stuff far more than you give me credit. Having been with several start-up companies and some well established companies, I understand what it takes to earn a profit off of software development.
You are given it in the same way you get free products in Costco and similar stores. They aren't doing this to please you, or to tickle your god damn fancy and you're a complete and utter ***** for even assuming that. These devs could be making an insanely huge profit simply by charging CENTS for each damn update but don't, because the goodness in their hearts makes them feel better, and that it works great as a marketing ploy.
Where have I stated that I insist that Mojang should give this stuff away? It is a good marketing ploy and an interesting business model. What you are missing is that by developing mods for Minecraft, I am adding value to their product for free (or at least no investment on the part of Mojang besides creating the API or the opportunity to use a 3rd party API like Forge). That should count for something too.
You don't deserve it, nor should Mojang devote more than a very small team to the furthering of Minecraft, because in reality, this game has already made them a lot of money, and future updates are just to keep us hooked. If you don't like this, you can complain, you can boycott, but in no way whatsoever are you entitled to having more resources devoted to your pathetically obsessive desire.
I also deserve to devote no more of my time or resources into Minecraft either. That is a two way street, and if Mojang wants to take their ball & bat and move along telling me to take a hike, I will acknowledge the attitude and move on too.
The problem is that you are the one being a ***** here and telling me to get lost and that I'm no longer wanted here, either posting on these forums or even bothering to live. Jeb and Dinnerbone may not be active with developing the API, but at least they (and especially Notch & Carl in terms of who really matters for policy) don't mind me earning a few bucks from making mods and posting some videos. All of that is also more or less free advertising for Minecraft and Mojang as a game studio, to which I am grateful.
I am so grateful that your attitude is not that of the Mojang staff, because I would rage quit right now if this was a typical kind of post on these forums. You really should be ashamed of yourself for this kind of idiotic post that seems to disregard that real people with real feelings and emotions are on the other side of these conversations.
Anyways, now you can go back to your unrealistic expectations and going on about how there's no signs anywhere of a Plugin API being developed, or how they're ignoring the needs of the players (lol).
First of all, I have my deep reservations that they are working on it at all, which is the point of this thread. As I pointed out abundantly, Mojang has stopped talking with the community on any level, and certainly not communicating with those who will ultimately be using this plug-in API if it ever gets developed: the current mod developers themselves.
Actually if you follow jeb on twitter he tweets often about his mod API work and also responds to people who ask him questions about it. So I'm not seeing a stop in communication there.
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Author of RFTools, RFTools Control, RFTools Dimensions, Deep Resonance, Immersive Craft, CombatHelp, NICE, Aqua Munda, Ariente, XNet, Interaction Wheel, The Lost Cities, Lost Souls, Need To Breathe, EFab, The One Probe and co-author of Not Enough Wands and RF Lux.
Anyways, now you can go back to your unrealistic expectations and going on about how there's no signs anywhere of a Plugin API being developed, or how they're ignoring the needs of the players (lol).
That has pretty much nothing to do with having an API - except that if they have to do that first, it's a lot more waiting. You can have an API with the current system of 12 bits for blockID and 4 bits for state; or you can have an API for 16 bits of block-with-state. It's a pretty obvious change, and it fixes a lot of chronic problems with state for multitexture items (e.g. stairs and slabs). But - it's a heck of a lot of work. Fiddly little bitshifting is everywhere in the code and it would all need to be changed, and often it's hard to see what's going on so there will be a lot of bugs at first where the new code doesn't do what the old one is doing.
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Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
Since 1.3 SSP and SMP are the same, as SSP uses an internal server, nearly everything is done on the server know anyways, only rendering and other UI stuff as well as some prediction stuff i think(which i don't know how they are going to deal with). They have been rewriting the system since the SSP/SMP merge.
I see this argument thrown quite frequently. Taking small steps as opposed to just taking the leap.
The act of programming is, for all purposes, a constant exercise in taking small steps to solve a problem. What is however missing from your argument is that the act of programming is also an exercise in scheduling. Tasks do have a start and do get finished. In useful time. And when you see that there isn't even a single line of code written for the plugin API yet, you can argue over and over again about the fact they are working on code that will make it happen.
For the past 4 years they have been eating that elephant one byte at a time. And that is exactly the problem. In case you have forgotten, someone out there, without direct access to the source code and without a monthly salary from Mojang, already ate your elephant one megabyte at a time. They gave us Forge, one step at a time.
I think that, at the moment, Mojang is not working on the API - they are building the engine to more easily make it. This, in my eyes, explains all of the "technically" and "sort of" comments we've been getting.
However, one has to wonder whether they are, in fact, doing this. If they outright told us if they wre working on it or not, and if so would they ever resume progress, it would greatly simplify matters.
However, I know very little about Java, only the most basic of commands, so I'm probably getting a few facts wrong.
"Only" rendering includes quite a lot actually. In MCP terms, block.colorMultiplier and block.getIcon are client-side methods that are commonly overridden by subclasses for example. Moving these calculations to the server would require another rewrite on the scale of the original SSP/SMP merge, with the result of adding still more load on the server and increasing the amount of traffic going to each client.
So, realistically, if modders are to add new blocks to the game, they will need a way to override those client-side methods too. I have to agree with Zeno410. A server-only API will either be severely limited or never see the light of day.
Not quite. While the code base is identical in terms of things like block & terrain generation or what classes performed tasks like weather effects (this was a real pain in the behind prior to 1.3), from a modding point of view there still are some substantial differences between SSP and SMP.
The key component to making that happen indeed would be transmitting block models, ID "handles" (including block names and internal code values), as well as texture data including transmitting image files from the server to the client. At the moment the assumption is that everybody has all of the Minecraft image assets (or their own private texture packs.... arguably a form of modding by itself that already is a "plug-in") and there is no need to transmit that information. This is why modded Minecraft servers with custom blocks still need a client-side patch.
Another huge thing that it seems like Mojang at least in the past talked about is a sort of "everything is a plug-in" concept where even basic blocks like a stone block or a dirt block are plug-ins.... supplied by default and installed automatically when you install or upgrade Minecraft direct from Mojang but still plug-ins none the less. I hope this is the direction that Jeb and Dinnerbone are going to take the API as it would be the kind of flexibility that I am looking for. This folds into the block data transmittal from servers to clients naturally as if everything is a plug-in, everything would also need to be transmitted from the server to the client to permit clients to "learn" what blocks exist on that server from even the most humble and basic blocks.
I would even dare say that some performance gains and certainly some major bug fixes might even happen doing this strictly because the data is going to be encapsulated much better with a strict firewall between block data and the core engine. It is easy as a software developer to get lazy and throw exceptions and quirky little hacks into the core part of your software simply to get the job done at the moment. Minecraft is full of these little "hacks" that Notch randomly threw in as he was developing the game (and driving the current developers nuts over trying to fish them out).
Regardless, this almost seems like Minecraft 2.0 territory, which is where comments like that of Zeno410 above seem to be spot on about. I still insist that all of this is irrelevant to the basic goal of producing an API even if they are laudable goals by themselves. It every well may require a clean-sheet rewrite of the whole game. If Mojang is going to spend those kind of resources and effort, they might as well charge players for a new version of the game as well.
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
Resource packs are NOT mods, at least in the sense that they change how the game actually works, only changing the icing on the cake, so to speak, and don't change/replace/plug into any actual code.
Also, I doubt that scripts can do complex things like change terrain generation, especially not with any efficiency; raw code is necessary for that (granted, simple changes can be done by simply modifying a variable, like when you change the frequency of structures in Superflat; you are simply overriding defaults, but the game has to provide easy access to them).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
If you look back at a previous post I made, Beta 1.0 (I assume you are referring to release 1.0) had a "mods" button (mods and texture packs, as if they were two different things).
Also, from Notch himself on a mod API, explaining the button I pointed out. The date? December 2010, and he did say that they were adding support for a mod API, not just planning on one (which apparently went way off track). Of course, he also said that future updates wouldn't be free anymore (unless you bought it before they changed the license), and that didn't happen.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
http://www.youtube.com/cpathoz
I just hope this doesn't mean that getting music discs in survival will be impossible now...
Check out my post (Posted 16 January 2014 - 10:15 PM) earlier this thread.
The short version:
Well, Notch first announced the mod API back in July 2009 (http://notch.tumblr....lua-or-java-api):
I’m going to open up some kind of api for the server to let people write plugins easier than to fiddle with stderr and stdin.
In June 2011, Notch said "After 1.8 [BETA 1.8!!!!!], we’ll have to start crunching for the full release in November. That includes finishing up the mod api,"
Note the phrase- "Finishing up the mod api". Note the date- 2.5 years ago.
Actually, those already were upgraded to the "new" AI (introduced back in 2012, hardly "new" anymore); what they are upgrading is Endermen, spiders, slimes, and zombie pigmen; for example, in the current release they mindlessly run off cliffs or into lava to their doom trying to get to you, but the existing new AI mobs don't do that, including creepers and skeletons, which are even smarter than zombies (e.g. zombies run out into the sun and burn trying to reach you, skeletons remain under trees even if it means they can't reach you).
Although from what I've seen they have just made things worse (except zombie pigmen), Endermen in particular, unless they fixed it in a recent snapshot (they would just stand in water/lava/rain and die; spiders and slimes still jumped to their deaths, the latter even just jumping around when non-aggro'ed, and spiders no longer tracked you through walls; these mobs obviously need new "tasks" defined for their abilities (that's how the "new" AI works, there is a list of "tasks" in the code, such as swimming, pathfinding, attacking, etc).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
There are young children who don't even know what the word plugin means who play the game who just want goofy mobs like bats and witches and Jeb has tried to please them. There are long-time players who wanted the old spontaneous and unique terrain back, and Jeb put forth an effort for them. People disliked the lighting glitches and Dinnerbone REWROTE the entire lighting engine for them. Map makers wanted more control and so Mojang made them a ton new blocks and redstone mechanics. This is progress outside of the API they have made because you thankless fools asked for it.
You still through all of that and the sluggish progression towards the API cannot be the slightest be thankful in the tone or way you talk about Mojang. You can be upset and a little restless but you do not deserve this API in the slightest bit with the way these devs have been treated. You should expect their promises and hope for their progress, but you should not expect them to bend face-forward at your will. You can expect them to be a little selfish with their time, but you do not get to be obnoxiously selfish about how they use their time.
These guys are continually revising an already released game for free. Minecraft is one of the rarest games purely for this fact. You should learn to appreciate it for the rare gem that it is, and quit complaining and instead ask for more details in a respectful and deserving manner. They don't want to answer you because you guys are talking like you have the power to shut down Minecraft's servers forever. They don't want to keep working on it because you are being ungrateful, and rightfully so you should be delayed in your reward.
First of all, I have my deep reservations that they are working on it at all, which is the point of this thread. As I pointed out abundantly, Mojang has stopped talking with the community on any level, and certainly not communicating with those who will ultimately be using this plug-in API if it ever gets developed: the current mod developers themselves.
As a point in fact, I have paid for two additional copies of Minecraft over this past year (at full price), in spite of the fact that I originally purchased the Beta 1.3 back so many years ago. Part of the reason for that is so my kids and I can play together in a multi-player world, but I seriously doubt that I would have done that if it wasn't for the continued content updates and changes that have been made in Minecraft. I am considering buying yet another copy between now and Christmas, so I think you can put to rest this whole argument "you get free updates for life", which isn't true either. I don't mind supporting Mojang, and I will buy other products of theirs in the future too if they continue some level of support for those products like they have with Minecraft.
This is a long-term thing and not so shallow as you are portraying it right now.
Besides, one of the major drivers of people playing Minecraft is the mods. This is something acknowledged by Notch when he announced the API originally, and I think it may very well be the death of Minecraft if it doesn't get released sooner than later. I dare say a business case can be presented that some resources should be put into developing the API on an ongoing basis, at least while Minecraft continues to be profitable for Mojang.
I have respect fully made requests about the API in the appropriate forums. I guess I didn't attend MineCon this last year and asked Jeb point blank if they care to receive any more thoughtful and reasoned suggestions about the API and if any of the greenlit suggestions will ever be developed. In some ways I am asking for communication here. Regardless, I'm moving on and have stopped making mods for Minecraft myself, in spite of the fact that I have several ideas I would love to create that haven't been done yet by anybody. That is Mojang's loss, not mine.
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
So what your saying, is that, the updates ruled as your ultimate buying point and that you as an pretentious consumer feel they should be obligated to cater to your very will in devoting unnecessary resources to better tend to an already released product because they said they were working on something, but it isn't getting done fast enough. Yes, I was so entirely and blatantly wrong. And you're right, Mods will be the entire focus of the game further on, I don't see how that ends its life-cycle.
No, no, no. You don't understand. You don't just get this stuff. You are given it in the same way you get free products in Costco and similar stores. They aren't doing this to please you, or to tickle your god damn fancy and you're a complete and utter ***** for even assuming that. These devs could be making an insanely huge profit simply by charging CENTS for each damn update but don't, because the goodness in their hearts makes them feel better, and that it works great as a marketing ploy. You don't deserve it, nor should Mojang devote more than a very small team to the furthering of Minecraft, because in reality, this game has already made them a lot of money, and future updates are just to keep us hooked. If you don't like this, you can complain, you can boycott, but in no way whatsoever are you entitled to having more resources devoted to your pathetically obsessive desire.
You're right.
No, really, you are right. Mojang has absolutely no obligation to give us anything. We paid for a complete game, and they provided that (at least by definition) in November of 2011 when Version 1.0 (non-beta) was released.
That doesn't change the fact that, by NOT getting their crap together, and getting an API out to the community, they are alienating a VERY large portion of their player-base (those that mod) by causing a situation where game mods (or "plugins", for the semantics-demanding butt-clowns out there) are dying a slow death. Due to the various issues already mentioned several times in this thread, the modding community is dwindling as the process of altering the game has been getting more difficult. There's several things Mojang could be doing to help this situation, but one of the big ones would be to get this API out to the community.
So yes, you're right, they have no obligation to work on it, or get anything to us in a timely fashion, or even ever for that matter. But they are stupid if they continue to ignore what a lack of mod (or plugin) support is going to do to their community, and hence, future sales of their game.
Glad we cleared that up.
There is a world of difference between working on something that takes time and something that isn't even being worked upon. And yes, mods have been a major reason why I bought additional copies of Minecraft as it has allowed me to customize content on the worlds that I'm building with others. In other words, it helps me to play the game in the way I want to play.
Why is that such a major crime? If you have ever been in a business, you should know that "the customer is always right". If you want to make money, you follow what your customers want. I'm not saying that I am insisting upon this, but I am suggesting it is a way that Mojang can capitalize upon their existing assets and be able to continue to earn more money in the future.
I think I understand this stuff far more than you give me credit. Having been with several start-up companies and some well established companies, I understand what it takes to earn a profit off of software development.
Where have I stated that I insist that Mojang should give this stuff away? It is a good marketing ploy and an interesting business model. What you are missing is that by developing mods for Minecraft, I am adding value to their product for free (or at least no investment on the part of Mojang besides creating the API or the opportunity to use a 3rd party API like Forge). That should count for something too.
I also deserve to devote no more of my time or resources into Minecraft either. That is a two way street, and if Mojang wants to take their ball & bat and move along telling me to take a hike, I will acknowledge the attitude and move on too.
The problem is that you are the one being a ***** here and telling me to get lost and that I'm no longer wanted here, either posting on these forums or even bothering to live. Jeb and Dinnerbone may not be active with developing the API, but at least they (and especially Notch & Carl in terms of who really matters for policy) don't mind me earning a few bucks from making mods and posting some videos. All of that is also more or less free advertising for Minecraft and Mojang as a game studio, to which I am grateful.
I am so grateful that your attitude is not that of the Mojang staff, because I would rage quit right now if this was a typical kind of post on these forums. You really should be ashamed of yourself for this kind of idiotic post that seems to disregard that real people with real feelings and emotions are on the other side of these conversations.
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
https://twitter.com/...958193267064832
Anyways, now you can go back to your unrealistic expectations and going on about how there's no signs anywhere of a Plugin API being developed, or how they're ignoring the needs of the players (lol).
...but that's just like, my opinion, man.
Actually if you follow jeb on twitter he tweets often about his mod API work and also responds to people who ask him questions about it. So I'm not seeing a stop in communication there.
Author of RFTools, RFTools Control, RFTools Dimensions, Deep Resonance, Immersive Craft, CombatHelp, NICE, Aqua Munda, Ariente, XNet, Interaction Wheel, The Lost Cities, Lost Souls, Need To Breathe, EFab, The One Probe and co-author of Not Enough Wands and RF Lux.
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That has pretty much nothing to do with having an API - except that if they have to do that first, it's a lot more waiting. You can have an API with the current system of 12 bits for blockID and 4 bits for state; or you can have an API for 16 bits of block-with-state. It's a pretty obvious change, and it fixes a lot of chronic problems with state for multitexture items (e.g. stairs and slabs). But - it's a heck of a lot of work. Fiddly little bitshifting is everywhere in the code and it would all need to be changed, and often it's hard to see what's going on so there will be a lot of bugs at first where the new code doesn't do what the old one is doing.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.