Is anyone else concerned we never, or rarely ever, hear about this part of the development in the snapshots since 1.7.2?
Dinnerbone is said to be the one developing this game feature. He was in fact hired for it. But all we see of him is general bug fixing, dealing with the many issues with the rendering engine, and writing daily countless tweets about whatever.
Where are the bullet points about the MOD API since 1.7.2? You can probably count them with the fingers in just one of your hands?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I was trying to think of a signature and this is what came up.
Secondly, it's technically been in development at least back during 1.3, as the SMP SSP merge was a mandatory step for it all to happen. I highly doubt they would say it's in development if it's not actually in development, Mojang gains nothing nor has any reason to lie about it.
Also, there are a few people in the background that are working on it (Like Grum). So it's not only Dinnerbone.
I see Dinnerbone doing a lot of things. Some of them are cool, some of them are idiotic, and very few of them seem to have anything to do with moving toward a mod/plugin API.
I know they've made a lot of core changes to the game that are supposedly "first steps" or "necessary precursors" toward implementing the API, and those are all good things, but you are correct in that they don't really actively mention their current intentions or planned progress points very often at all.
It would be nice if they took a more active stance on the topic, and really spoke more about how the changes they are implementing are making progress toward the API goal. It's not that I don't believe there's been any progress, it's just that without some real evidence that they are taking this goal seriously, I can't really expect that the API is something we are ever actually likely to see come to fruition.
This is a digression, but I've become more than slightly disillusioned with the dev team in general in the recent several months. It just seems that for every really solid improvement they make (the whole biome restructure, for example), there's a myriad of "dumb" stuff that doesn't really serve any purpose, or help push them toward any reasonable goal.
This is a digression, but I've become more than slightly disillusioned with the dev team in general in the recent several months. It just seems that for every really solid improvement they make (the whole biome restructure, for example), there's a myriad of "dumb" stuff that doesn't really serve any purpose, or help push them toward any reasonable goal.
I really wish they would put everything else aside except for bug fixes and focus on a couple key areas where large improvements could be made. Then don't update until those things are completed. If it takes several months, so be it.
Terrain Generation
Mod/Plugin API
Enchanting
^ If they managed to fix all this stuff that would be a really awesome update.
The main issue is that people expect them to just drop any updates and work only on the Plugin API until it is done. it is not going to happen, and to expect it to is both unreasonable and flawed in logic. What do you people think Grum and EvilSeph have been doing? Sitting there looking at computer screens all day? Why do you guys thing Searge was hired? Just because they aren't giving us news doesn't mean it isn't being made. Have you ever thought that the reason they aren't giving us news is precisely because of the way this community is? I believe Jeb_ said it best: https://twitter.com/...564096019189760
The main issue is that people expect them to just drop any updates and work only on the Plugin API until it is done. it is not going to happen, and to expect it to is both unreasonable and flawed in logic.
I'm sure you'll find very few people thinking that, Populi. In over 3 years of Minecraft, I rarely saw anyone expecting Minecraft to just develop one feature and leaving everything else. Not sure why you would think that is what "people" think on a regular basis.
And some of the people in these forums are software developers themselves with long years of professional experience. It's just common and advisable practice for a team to divide work. Programmers work on a focused area and only give a part of their working day to general development, helping others in their own areas or working on less code intensive issues.
I don't know how correct I am when I say that I don't see that focused development happening at Mojang. But there's a whole lot of hints that is exactly what is missing. Even you perceive their daily routine as such.
I find your Jeb quote out of context too. They inform us a whole lot about progress development in many areas. Heck, they are tweet addicts, almost all of them. If there is one thing I can't accuse Mojang of is shunning their community in terms of what they inform about their work.
And this is precisely why the whole Plugin API (bolded as a service to the semantic nazis) is becoming a bit of a concern. Like others I think it's just not a priority anymore. It makes little sense to me that such a feature -- until sometime ago hailed so important to the point of breaking all mod support with the introduction of 1.7.2 -- is practically unknown to the players.
I don't think they are lying about it, as OCrapaCreeper implies I'm accusing them of. They are simply not announcing this feature or showing much progress towards its completion. It seems to indicate very little work is done around it, especially when we consider all the other coding activities the team is engaged on. So that brings doubt about it being really done and whether or not they have lost much interest in it.
With MCP and Forge nearing completion (or so we hope), it seems we will have to stick to a third party for mod support for a long while more.
That tweet is not out of context at all. They know at this point that anything they tell us about will be scrutinized by the community, obviously not all of it, but a vocal portion of it. So, instead of releasing hints about the API and dealing with that about it, chances are they are just developing it and will talk about it when it is released. And with how many changes have been made to the core game and the fact that Dinnerbone mentions the API often, I am pretty sure they are working on it at a decent pace.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The problem with the truth, is that it never lies.
They are working dilligently on the plugin api. Every update we had recently has been a stepping stone. Resource packs, sound engine, and rendering, new block id format. Just because they don't want to tell you anything doesn't mean they aren't working on it. It's a lot of work.
It may not seem like it, but I have every confidence that they are. Didn't Dinnerbone mention something about working on the attribute system a couple of days ago?
Just to add, because I'm that much of pedant; what I think you actually mean marfig is 'pedantic fascist'. I just couldn't help myself. I would've jumped on the 'Plugin' bandwagon, but that's been covered already.
Can you even imagine how many months of work do forge or modloader have? Well this is even more complex because theywant to extend it to all possible variables out there. This kind of thing, just as a theory, takes years. Don't expect it to simply be out because they wont release anything without it being as perfect and useful as they can make it
Most game devs wouldn't fix those bugs once the game goes out on retail, like Skyrim, has heaps of bugs, are Bethesda gonna fix em, Nope.
They don't have to fix every bug, just ones that ruin the game.
Don't expect it to simply be out because they wont release anything without it being as perfect and useful as they can make it
I feel I need to clarify something here to you and a few others, because my main doubt that anything is happening around the plugin api has exactly to do with what we are seeing, instead of what we are not seeing.
If what you say were to be true, that would mean they are working on the plugin API on a separate branch from the main trunk (the main source code they compile to give to us). This would allow them to keep working on the plugin API code without showing it to us and making it better and better until they were ready to release.
But that isn't what we have seen with 1.7.2. On that major update, they broke mod support in order to pave the way for the plugin API. Up until 1.7.4 we have no mod support. And we shall see what happens with 1.7.8.
The mod support breakage that happened in 1.7.2 means their work on the plugin API is being done on the main trunk. If they were working on a separate branch they would have no need to break mod support right until they were ready to release the API. But where is this work? With every snapshot since then, nothing is shown. All the game new features are related to other work, not the Plugin API.
I feel I need to clarify something here to you and a few others, because my main doubt that anything is happening around the plugin api has exactly to do with what we are seeing, instead of what we are not seeing. If what you say were to be true, that would mean they are working on the plugin API on a separate branch from the main trunk (the main source code they compile to give to us). This would allow them to keep working on the plugin API code without showing it to us and making it better and better until they were ready to release. But that isn't what we have seen with 1.7.2. On that major update, they broke mod support in order to pave the way for the plugin API. Up until 1.7.4 we have no mod support. And we shall see what happens with 1.7.8. The mod support breakage that happened in 1.7.2 means their work on the plugin API is being done on the main trunk. If they were working on a separate branch they would have no need to break mod support right until they were ready to release the API. But where is this work? With every snapshot since then, nothing is shown. All the game new features are related to other work, not the Plugin API.
You must be a little new here, mods break with every update because the game code is changed and therefore the mods are compiled over old code and have to be re-written. This happens with every update, the reason 1.7 was so bad about it is because they rewrote so much of the code, redid the entire rendering engine, and then redid the world generator. It was a big update.
Forgive me for being n00b, but what's the difference?
A mod implies that it directly modifies the source code, a plugin means that it plugs into the game without editing any existing classes. So yes, there is a difference.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The problem with the truth, is that it never lies.
Dinnerbone is said to be the one developing this game feature. He was in fact hired for it. But all we see of him is general bug fixing, dealing with the many issues with the rendering engine, and writing daily countless tweets about whatever.
Where are the bullet points about the MOD API since 1.7.2? You can probably count them with the fingers in just one of your hands?
However, I have doubts it is the main focus of their work.
Secondly, it's technically been in development at least back during 1.3, as the SMP SSP merge was a mandatory step for it all to happen. I highly doubt they would say it's in development if it's not actually in development, Mojang gains nothing nor has any reason to lie about it.
Also, there are a few people in the background that are working on it (Like Grum). So it's not only Dinnerbone.
I know they've made a lot of core changes to the game that are supposedly "first steps" or "necessary precursors" toward implementing the API, and those are all good things, but you are correct in that they don't really actively mention their current intentions or planned progress points very often at all.
It would be nice if they took a more active stance on the topic, and really spoke more about how the changes they are implementing are making progress toward the API goal. It's not that I don't believe there's been any progress, it's just that without some real evidence that they are taking this goal seriously, I can't really expect that the API is something we are ever actually likely to see come to fruition.
This is a digression, but I've become more than slightly disillusioned with the dev team in general in the recent several months. It just seems that for every really solid improvement they make (the whole biome restructure, for example), there's a myriad of "dumb" stuff that doesn't really serve any purpose, or help push them toward any reasonable goal.
I really wish they would put everything else aside except for bug fixes and focus on a couple key areas where large improvements could be made. Then don't update until those things are completed. If it takes several months, so be it.
Terrain Generation
Mod/Plugin API
Enchanting
^ If they managed to fix all this stuff that would be a really awesome update.
I'm sure you'll find very few people thinking that, Populi. In over 3 years of Minecraft, I rarely saw anyone expecting Minecraft to just develop one feature and leaving everything else. Not sure why you would think that is what "people" think on a regular basis.
And some of the people in these forums are software developers themselves with long years of professional experience. It's just common and advisable practice for a team to divide work. Programmers work on a focused area and only give a part of their working day to general development, helping others in their own areas or working on less code intensive issues.
I don't know how correct I am when I say that I don't see that focused development happening at Mojang. But there's a whole lot of hints that is exactly what is missing. Even you perceive their daily routine as such.
I find your Jeb quote out of context too. They inform us a whole lot about progress development in many areas. Heck, they are tweet addicts, almost all of them. If there is one thing I can't accuse Mojang of is shunning their community in terms of what they inform about their work.
And this is precisely why the whole Plugin API (bolded as a service to the semantic nazis) is becoming a bit of a concern. Like others I think it's just not a priority anymore. It makes little sense to me that such a feature -- until sometime ago hailed so important to the point of breaking all mod support with the introduction of 1.7.2 -- is practically unknown to the players.
I don't think they are lying about it, as OCrapaCreeper implies I'm accusing them of. They are simply not announcing this feature or showing much progress towards its completion. It seems to indicate very little work is done around it, especially when we consider all the other coding activities the team is engaged on. So that brings doubt about it being really done and whether or not they have lost much interest in it.
With MCP and Forge nearing completion (or so we hope), it seems we will have to stick to a third party for mod support for a long while more.
That tweet is not out of context at all. They know at this point that anything they tell us about will be scrutinized by the community, obviously not all of it, but a vocal portion of it. So, instead of releasing hints about the API and dealing with that about it, chances are they are just developing it and will talk about it when it is released. And with how many changes have been made to the core game and the fact that Dinnerbone mentions the API often, I am pretty sure they are working on it at a decent pace.
Just to add, because I'm that much of pedant; what I think you actually mean marfig is 'pedantic fascist'. I just couldn't help myself. I would've jumped on the 'Plugin' bandwagon, but that's been covered already.
They don't have to fix every bug, just ones that ruin the game.
Enderdragon Roar in the Overworld
Rollercoaster
I feel I need to clarify something here to you and a few others, because my main doubt that anything is happening around the plugin api has exactly to do with what we are seeing, instead of what we are not seeing.
If what you say were to be true, that would mean they are working on the plugin API on a separate branch from the main trunk (the main source code they compile to give to us). This would allow them to keep working on the plugin API code without showing it to us and making it better and better until they were ready to release.
But that isn't what we have seen with 1.7.2. On that major update, they broke mod support in order to pave the way for the plugin API. Up until 1.7.4 we have no mod support. And we shall see what happens with 1.7.8.
The mod support breakage that happened in 1.7.2 means their work on the plugin API is being done on the main trunk. If they were working on a separate branch they would have no need to break mod support right until they were ready to release the API. But where is this work? With every snapshot since then, nothing is shown. All the game new features are related to other work, not the Plugin API.
Forgive me for being n00b, but what's the difference?
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
You must be a little new here, mods break with every update because the game code is changed and therefore the mods are compiled over old code and have to be re-written. This happens with every update, the reason 1.7 was so bad about it is because they rewrote so much of the code, redid the entire rendering engine, and then redid the world generator. It was a big update.
A mod implies that it directly modifies the source code, a plugin means that it plugs into the game without editing any existing classes. So yes, there is a difference.