Yes, oceans make climate changes happen more because they are permissible next to all climates. If you're looking for a change in climate and don't want to resort to sort-of-cheaty methods like the 3rd party mapping programs, your best policy is to boat along the coast.
I do wonder if perhaps the climate system was tuned for the old ocean system and then wasn't adjusted when they shrunk the oceans. With the old ocean system the climate blobs would have been considerably smaller, and things like a tens of thousands of temperate climate blocks in a row wouldn't happen. Some people like the long trips enforced by the new climate system but I think most think it's far. While perhaps Mojang was designing for the Marco Polo types, I really suspect they were aiming for more typical players.
With the current system if somebody creates a 5K by 5K world for a server, there's a good chance it will be missing at least one of the ordinary biomes and it will usually be missing either Ice Spikes or Bryce. That kind of feels like Pocket Edition, where sometimes things in the game system simply don't exist in the world, period. I don't think that was the intent.
What i tried to say is less sea means more land, more land means more biomes. Biomes layout tends to repeat the same biomes over and over, i constantly see extreme hills plains and forest mainly, sometimes mixed up with other biomes depending on the temperature thingie. What you get is the same biomes getting repeated over and over depending on the "climate" as you call it and the different systems are too far away from each other...
If you want to se a little bit of change you have to travel long long distances when in the past, i feel we used to have a chance to have variety "closer"... The new micro oceans doesn´t even help adjusting the temperatures system, acting as a "void" temperature space where the climate can change and get some variety closer.. like some kind of regulator. I dont mind travelling,but in some cases, as you correctly pointed in servers, there are limitations.
In the end i feel that they are limiting the world generation potential, the thrill of exploring, asking yourself whats going to be there, behind that extreme the hill or past that swamp... You can deduce whats going to be the next biome taking off the emotion of exploring and they arent exploiting the oceans as a way to improve things that way...
Oceans were not adressed well. Although being smaller isn't a problem, what is a problem is not creating continents.
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Spot on!
How to make it so that oceans also "delineate" continents:
Think about hexagonal paper, with each hex roughly representing 2000x2000 blocks in size. Imagine this is your land. Then "draw" random and wavy lines and any hex crossed by such a line is marked as an "ocean" hex. Draw enough random lines but not too much, you'll get "long" oceans that aren't "gigantic" and that will really separate land in the form of "continents". Sometimes the oceans could get a bit thinner of wider instead of always "1 hex thick", and you'd also get continents of varying sizes too. Then add in random blotches of ocean to crate big lakes or inner seas.
Imagine the octogons making an "amourphous" mass sourounded with water, then more like this together separated by water.
If you dont know the game, each octogon is a biome and each biome gives you a resource. Each biome has a number which, when its rolled on the dice each player that is settled on the place will get the resource.
I disagree, oceans themselves contain very little content and barely any reason to even be there in the first place; however, that's just what an ocean is, a vast body of water and not much else. If there were maybe boats, other fish, maybe more common islands/medium sized continents or something, then I'd say a compromise between now and the old huge oceans would be fine. But right now, they have very little reason to exist, other than to just bet there. So no, I don't think less ocean = less awesome whatsoever.
It really seems to me that Mojang haven't got the slightest clue how to balance things.
Oceans were massive and empty and people rightly pointed out that too many large empty oceans was a bit of a drag,
The correct step at that point would have been to simply increase the variety of possible ocean sizes, pehaps having the larger oceans less likely to occur, but still possible.
Then we would have had worlds with the maximum possible variety (the most important thing to have - it keeps things unpredicatable and interesting) and everyone would have been happy, because they're not constantly having to deal with huge expanses of ocean.
But no! As always Mohjang have to take things from one extreme to another, with seemingly no understanding that a middle ground is possible. Their display of poor judgement, release after release is starting to sadden me. They're just rubbish at the game design part.
I just don't like the idea of a continuous land mass. The ocean sizes in 1.6 but at least there were continents.
Not really, as you went farther from the spawn point you'd get more and more ocean, and the land masses would get smaller and smaller. If you were lucky your seed would give you land for maybe 20k at most, then it was just endless water with a few small biomes here and there.
If they really wanted to make everyone happy, they'd add a new world option for "large oceans" similar to the "large biomes", but only for the ocean biomes. Well, not everyone- some people will never be happy no matter what.
Edit:
To clarify what I meant, it was not the actual size of an ocean biome which bothered me, but rather the frequency that they showed up. I don't mind a few large oceans, but I'd like to find a decent size continent once in a while. So given the choice of old vs. new, I'm happier with the new.
Edit:
To clarify what I meant, it was not the actual size of an ocean biome which bothered me, but rather the frequency that they showed up. I don't mind a few large oceans, but I'd like to find a decent size continent once in a while. So given the choice of old vs. new, I'm happier with the new.
Well, in the other hand some people seem to be unhappy with how not frequent they are and how other biomes became way too frecuent and linked to others making a continous chain of the same biomes over and over. The effect this causes is just dissapointing (exploring wise)
Not really, as you went farther from the spawn point you'd get more and more ocean, and the land masses would get smaller and smaller. If you were lucky your seed would give you land for maybe 20k at most, then it was just endless water with a few small biomes here and there.
Absolutely not. The ocean was full of continents with the same generation characteristics as the start continent. This is what the old system looked like: (hat tip to PuffinPuncher)
Intercontinental distances were 5-20K blocks. Yeah, that's kind of long, but crossing is still a trivial amount of time next to accumulating exp for a big enchantment or any of a number of other routine tasks you have to do over and over and over again and minecraft. The continents were huge. Even a cursory overview of a smaller continent would take 20 or so hours; detailed exploration would be 5-6 times that, or weeks for most minecraft players. Mapping the larger continental complexes (like the big swath on the right of that map) would take months of real time.
I find it ironic that Mojang added water-breathing potions in the same update that removed any need to explore the sea floor due to smaller size and gravel.
THAT'S WHAT MAKES ME THINK THAT THERE IS STILL MORE TO COME. (sorry caps didn't notice until it was too late. To lazy to delete.
As I have said before, the reason Mojang decreased the ocean size is because people primarily complained about the size, not the emptiness. So they listened to the complaints they were getting and made the ocean smaller. So the community has nobody to blame for the ocean size but themselves.
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The problem with the truth, is that it never lies.
The only problem I have with the current oceans besides the lack of content, which is understandable, is the fact that the ocean floor is entirely made out of gravel..... just no.
I put "don't care", but really it's neither/nor for me. I guess it depends on your playstyle, makes building more interesting that's for sure. It's also kind of confusing that they condensed the oceans shortly after they "fixed" the way infinite water sources are created, giving the player more leeway in making a mess in their oceans.
Going on a little tangent, somebody should make a mod that lets you toggle vanilla features. Of course, having 80+ mods at all times might make me a little biased in that but, oh well, what ya gonna do?
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Its been around for a while, and it gets no professional attention. Its amature hour with Mojangs Ocean.
No special content has ever crossed into it to make it a worthwhile experience, Its just an empty biome that becomes an obstical dispite all sorts of cool suggestions from people.
- Mobs (Black jellyfish with downsyndrome doesn't count., you see what I did there?)
- Blocks
- Sounds
-weather effects/ waves
You can do just about anything you need to in any other body of water.
What I don't understand is where this meme about oceans being boring came from, and why this is suddenly a problem.
I mean, it would be great if there was cool underwater stuff you could see (I have a few ideas of my own for how ocean travel could be more interesting). But there's still the fact that ocean travel is supposed to be long and a bit boring. It's supposed to be a deterrent to keep people mostly on the same continent. It's a natural barrier that you don't even have to artificially add to the game. But if some player is bull-headed enough to plow through the barrier, well they get to have fun too, eventually finding whole new continents.
I don't understand why every biome has to hit me over the head with its awesomeness. Why can't there just be some transition biomes that let me cleanse my palette for the next mesa biome? (Aside: This is one reason why I dislike amplified terrain, because it makes the entire world overwhelmingly huge, and there's no place to just re-set your expectations.)
And it's not like oceans in Minecraft are absolutely impossible to cross. The entire mode of operation of Minecraft is to set up nether transport networks. That's the function of the nether. That's like, one of the main reasons you go to the nether at all. So long ocean voyages are just not a problem.
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What I don't understand is where this meme about oceans being boring came from, and why this is suddenly a problem.
I mean, it would be great if there was cool underwater stuff you could see (I have a few ideas of my own for how ocean travel could be more interesting). But there's still the fact that ocean travel is supposed to be long and a bit boring. It's supposed to be a deterrent to keep people mostly on the same continent. It's a natural barrier that you don't even have to artificially add to the game. But if some player is bull-headed enough to plow through the barrier, well they get to have fun too, eventually finding whole new continents.
I don't understand why every biome has to hit me over the head with its awesomeness. Why can't there just be some transition biomes that let me cleanse my palette for the next mesa biome? (Aside: This is one reason why I dislike amplified terrain, because it makes the entire world overwhelmingly huge, and there's no place to just re-set your expectations.)
And it's not like oceans in Minecraft are absolutely impossible to cross. The entire mode of operation of Minecraft is to set up nether transport networks. That's the function of the nether. That's like, one of the main reasons you go to the nether at all. So long ocean voyages are just not a problem.
^This. All of it. He sums it up perfectly.
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The problem with the truth, is that it never lies.
This would be a really cool idea! I would love to have the big oceans back, but I really really want something in them (otherwise they are a bit boring). Seeing fish and aquatic floral and fauna (maybe sharks, whales, dolphins, kelp, seaweed, and fish), but I really love Aubinator's idea. And an underwater village (unpopulated) is not so far fetched...
Well they were a bit too big but they were WAY TOO COMMEN! There's the problem right there.
What i tried to say is less sea means more land, more land means more biomes. Biomes layout tends to repeat the same biomes over and over, i constantly see extreme hills plains and forest mainly, sometimes mixed up with other biomes depending on the temperature thingie. What you get is the same biomes getting repeated over and over depending on the "climate" as you call it and the different systems are too far away from each other...
If you want to se a little bit of change you have to travel long long distances when in the past, i feel we used to have a chance to have variety "closer"... The new micro oceans doesn´t even help adjusting the temperatures system, acting as a "void" temperature space where the climate can change and get some variety closer.. like some kind of regulator. I dont mind travelling,but in some cases, as you correctly pointed in servers, there are limitations.
In the end i feel that they are limiting the world generation potential, the thrill of exploring, asking yourself whats going to be there, behind that extreme the hill or past that swamp... You can deduce whats going to be the next biome taking off the emotion of exploring and they arent exploiting the oceans as a way to improve things that way...
Spot on!
How to make it so that oceans also "delineate" continents:
Think about hexagonal paper, with each hex roughly representing 2000x2000 blocks in size. Imagine this is your land. Then "draw" random and wavy lines and any hex crossed by such a line is marked as an "ocean" hex. Draw enough random lines but not too much, you'll get "long" oceans that aren't "gigantic" and that will really separate land in the form of "continents". Sometimes the oceans could get a bit thinner of wider instead of always "1 hex thick", and you'd also get continents of varying sizes too. Then add in random blotches of ocean to crate big lakes or inner seas.
Just one tiny way to do it amongst hundreds.
Imagine the octogons making an "amourphous" mass sourounded with water, then more like this together separated by water.
If you dont know the game, each octogon is a biome and each biome gives you a resource. Each biome has a number which, when its rolled on the dice each player that is settled on the place will get the resource.
Agreed
Not really, as you went farther from the spawn point you'd get more and more ocean, and the land masses would get smaller and smaller. If you were lucky your seed would give you land for maybe 20k at most, then it was just endless water with a few small biomes here and there.
If they really wanted to make everyone happy, they'd add a new world option for "large oceans" similar to the "large biomes", but only for the ocean biomes. Well, not everyone- some people will never be happy no matter what.
Edit:
To clarify what I meant, it was not the actual size of an ocean biome which bothered me, but rather the frequency that they showed up. I don't mind a few large oceans, but I'd like to find a decent size continent once in a while. So given the choice of old vs. new, I'm happier with the new.
Well, in the other hand some people seem to be unhappy with how not frequent they are and how other biomes became way too frecuent and linked to others making a continous chain of the same biomes over and over. The effect this causes is just dissapointing (exploring wise)
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Curse PremiumAbsolutely not. The ocean was full of continents with the same generation characteristics as the start continent. This is what the old system looked like: (hat tip to PuffinPuncher)
Intercontinental distances were 5-20K blocks. Yeah, that's kind of long, but crossing is still a trivial amount of time next to accumulating exp for a big enchantment or any of a number of other routine tasks you have to do over and over and over again and minecraft. The continents were huge. Even a cursory overview of a smaller continent would take 20 or so hours; detailed exploration would be 5-6 times that, or weeks for most minecraft players. Mapping the larger continental complexes (like the big swath on the right of that map) would take months of real time.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
THAT'S WHAT MAKES ME THINK THAT THERE IS STILL MORE TO COME. (sorry caps didn't notice until it was too late. To lazy to delete.
Going on a little tangent, somebody should make a mod that lets you toggle vanilla features. Of course, having 80+ mods at all times might make me a little biased in that but, oh well, what ya gonna do?
Currently working on random projects. Have any coding problems? Feel free to PM!
Want to play Minecraft SSP like Spaceboot1? Try my modpack, all mods made by me, Spaceboot1!
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Curse PremiumIts been around for a while, and it gets no professional attention. Its amature hour with Mojangs Ocean.
No special content has ever crossed into it to make it a worthwhile experience, Its just an empty biome that becomes an obstical dispite all sorts of cool suggestions from people.
- Mobs (Black jellyfish with downsyndrome doesn't count., you see what I did there?)
- Blocks
- Sounds
-weather effects/ waves
You can do just about anything you need to in any other body of water.
Boats now seam to randomly break in open ocean.
I mean, it would be great if there was cool underwater stuff you could see (I have a few ideas of my own for how ocean travel could be more interesting). But there's still the fact that ocean travel is supposed to be long and a bit boring. It's supposed to be a deterrent to keep people mostly on the same continent. It's a natural barrier that you don't even have to artificially add to the game. But if some player is bull-headed enough to plow through the barrier, well they get to have fun too, eventually finding whole new continents.
I don't understand why every biome has to hit me over the head with its awesomeness. Why can't there just be some transition biomes that let me cleanse my palette for the next mesa biome? (Aside: This is one reason why I dislike amplified terrain, because it makes the entire world overwhelmingly huge, and there's no place to just re-set your expectations.)
And it's not like oceans in Minecraft are absolutely impossible to cross. The entire mode of operation of Minecraft is to set up nether transport networks. That's the function of the nether. That's like, one of the main reasons you go to the nether at all. So long ocean voyages are just not a problem.
Want to play Minecraft SSP like Spaceboot1? Try my modpack, all mods made by me, Spaceboot1!
^This. All of it. He sums it up perfectly.
This would be a really cool idea! I would love to have the big oceans back, but I really really want something in them (otherwise they are a bit boring). Seeing fish and aquatic floral and fauna (maybe sharks, whales, dolphins, kelp, seaweed, and fish), but I really love Aubinator's idea. And an underwater village (unpopulated) is not so far fetched...