A tiny update fixing only ONE bug breaks every single mod and Bukkit plugin out there? Whatever happened to those updates NOT breaking the entire game? Then I have to wait like a week for all of the mods I use to be updated because Mojang overlooked one bug and decide to fix it more than two months after they release 1.6. It's seriously one of the most irritating things about this game. I'm usually a patient guy, but not for stupid things like this.
It didn't break any of the plugins that I made, they worked fine. O_o
But yeah, I agree with you.
Stop arguing, everyone. It's ruining my [Insert word here] and I don't like it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Welcome to my signature! I'm on the forums almost everyday (even if its just for a few minutes) So if you have something to tell me or tell me about, just send me a PM (private message) Note- I do not usually check the places I post to see if there are replies, so the above applies. ~Notch
Guess what sweetcheeks, the only reason that I and 90% of the people I know who even play minecraft still, IS BECAUSE OF COOL MODS.
Vanilla MC is boring, and lacks anything exciting or interesting past the first 20 minutes of starting a fresh map.
Mods are the lifeblood of MC these days, so every update that breaks them is just a giant pain in the ass for both the coders that have to fix those mods, and the players that have to wait a month (or sometimes much longer) for those updates to follow up.
Guess what sweetcheeks, the only reason that I and 90% of the people I know who even play minecraft still, IS BECAUSE OF COOL MODS.
Vanilla MC is boring, and lacks anything exciting or interesting past the first 20 minutes of starting a fresh map.
Mods are the lifeblood of MC these days, so every update that breaks them is just a giant pain in the ass for both the coders that have to fix those mods, and the players that have to wait a month (or sometimes much longer) for those updates to follow up.
I beg to differ, the only way Vanilla MC can get boring is if you are not very creative. Only 20 minutes? I imagine you must not know how to build anything all that spectacular. A single build can take me hours and even days. The fact you get bored after 20 minutes, says a whole lot about your imagination and ability to play the game the way it was meant to be played.
Also 90% of the people you know that play minecraft probably represent 0.001% of the entire minecraft population. XD
"90% of the people I know" has no statistical meaning, and thus doesn't prove any point about the playerbase's supposed reliance on mods. Speaking for myself I have absolutely no problems finding things to do in my worlds, and I have been playing vanilla for over 8 months now and counting.
It's been weeks, and a bunch of my mods still haven't been updated for the game. Luckily, somebody updated Zombe to 1.6.4, but it's unofficial. This really sucks.
There's not even a 1.6.4 ModLoader! It's as if people are boycotting this update. My server is running 1.6.2, but sadly, MCTheWalls has updated, and it's my favorite PvP server.
And if one more person suggests that we make a new profile, I'm going to punch out my ethernet socket. THAT DOESN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
I take it a lot of people forgot that all of MC's code is re-obfuscated every update, hence why mods break, and servers need to update their plugins from the smallest changes.
I thought about this, but a lot of minor updates in the past left the mods intact, and a few mods actually stayed alive going into 1.6.4. This update only changes server-side things (including the "server" running in singleplayer), so it shouldn't go near anything like graphics.
For those folks that are saying the 1.6.4 update is not important, you are very wrong if you want your maps to be playable in 1.7. All maps will have to be loaded and saved in 1.6.4 to properly work in 1.7. Not only that, you will have to load your map, and then run around the map enough that EVERY SINGLE CHUNK is loaded. If you don't, than any chunk that was not loaded and saved in 1.6.4 will lose some structure information.
OK, why doesn't 1.7 just do that for you? That's such a hackjob solution... making the server owner update the server and making the players run around and load the chunks. If what you say is true, and I was the guy programming that in, I would feel a pitchfork poking my butt and turn around to see the Devil of Computer Science ready to capture me for this programming crime.
Luckily, my server is going to get a new map with 1.7 just because everyone ran out of things to do on the current one, and we want all the new features, so my refusal to update to 1.6.4 and break every player's mods isn't going to be a problem.
OK, why doesn't 1.7 just do that for you? That's such a hackjob solution... making the server owner update the server and making the players run around and load the chunks. If what you say is true, and I was the guy programming that in, I would feel a pitchfork poking my butt and turn around to see the Devil of Computer Science ready to capture me for this programming crime.
This. The path Mojang took is going to cause problems for literally years. People are going to be building witch farms and looking for strongholds in legacy worlds and will be totally frustrated things aren't going the way they expect. It will take, in some cases, days for them to figure out the problem is they didn't load up that particular chunk in 1.6.4 prior to updating to 1.7 Hopefully somebody will eventually write up a routine to figure out where those places are and patch them up.
MC-15547 - Structures (witch huts, nether fortresses etc.) don't get saved with the world file
In order for current structures (Witch Huts, Nether Fortresses, etc.) to be saved to the world file, the player must load the appropriate chunks within the game manually. The game will notautomatically scan worlds and update structure data globally. After this is completed, structures will be compatible in all snapshots starting at Snapshot 13w37b
OK, why doesn't 1.7 just do that for you? That's such a hackjob solution... making the server owner update the server and making the players run around and load the chunks. If what you say is true, and I was the guy programming that in, I would feel a pitchfork poking my butt and turn around to see the Devil of Computer Science ready to capture me for this programming crime.
Actually, if 1.7 were to do that for you it would require a pretty nasty hack: include the legacy terrain generator and shoehorn its processing into the world / chunk loading procedure, like load the chunk in the save file, re-generate it with the legacy generator and then add the structure data to the file if not present. If that's not a nasty hack then I don't know what is. Mojang's solution may not be a good one but it is probably the most elegant one available, it avoids extreme computation inefficiency and bloated code. I mean if they were to add this then how long should it remain there, causing worse experience for all the updated players? They were pretty much victims to bad judgement or bad timing if they genuinely weren't aware of it until recently, this loss of save state should have been fixed back when witch huts and fortresses were first introduced.
It's seriously one of the most irritating things about this game. I'm usually a patient guy, but not for stupid things like this.
Yeah it's not the mods' fault at all, everything is Minecraft's fault. Boooh Jeb, you're a terrible programmer for not coordinating your changes better with the modders. Because clearly this game is owned by the modders, not by Notch or Mojang.
These little updates are part of the reason why I think pre-releases (not snapshots, the pre-release before every update) are pointless. Mojang give people time to update their mods for the finished version, and a few days after the finished version they come out with another bugfix update. If you're going to break mods so soon after a release, why are you going to delay an update so people can update their mods?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Did something happen to you in your childhood to give you this unreasonable fear of rutabaga?
Yeah it's not the mods' fault at all, everything is Minecraft's fault. Boooh Jeb, you're a terrible programmer for not coordinating your changes better with the modders. Because clearly this game is owned by the modders, not by Notch or Mojang.
For more information, click .
I'm pretty sure false information in links is not allowed.
The main reason why even a small update breaks mods, even when the relevant class files aren't changed, is because the code is obfuscated* and they change it with every new release; if you've ever looked inside the jar, you'd see a bunch of files with names like aaa.class; utilities like MCP change the obfuscated names back into the original names (or into ones that make sense) so we can easily write mods and vice-versa when the mod is recompiled/reobfuscated. For example, the file that MCP calls MapGenCaves is acv in 1.5.2, aep in 1.6.2, and amv in 13w39b (I don't have 1.6.4 because like others I am going to just wait until 1.7 comes out and MCP/Forge/mods update and just make a new world, plus I have some mods I made myself for my own use, hence the mention of MapGenCaves).
*The fact that Mojang does this suggests that they don't want us messing around with their code; see http://en.wikipedia....tion_(software), but they don't seem to enforce it either other than obfuscation.
Fine, if you stay on 1.6.2 until 1.7 comes out, then have fun with broken structures because you didn't load the chunks in 1.6.4.
Alright, so you're saying that contrary to other users' recommendations to use an alternate profile for 1.6.2, we HAVE to update to 1.6.4. The thing is that my map is going to be reset for 1.7 anyway and has been planned to be reset since 1.7's features were announced.
Actually, if 1.7 were to do that for you it would require a pretty nasty hack: include the legacy terrain generator and shoehorn its processing into the world / chunk loading procedure, like load the chunk in the save file, re-generate it with the legacy generator and then add the structure data to the file if not present. If that's not a nasty hack then I don't know what is. Mojang's solution may not be a good one but it is probably the most elegant one available
It doesn't even need to look everywhere because it can find the structures purely based on the seed.
And making all the players go around, loading chunks, to manually make the game save the structures is much worse than having the thing do it automatically, even if it does search every chunk. That's what Mojang's solution is. It's basically what you described as the bad solution except worse.
I beg to differ, the only way Vanilla MC can get boring is if you are not very creative. Only 20 minutes? I imagine you must not know how to build anything all that spectacular. A single build can take me hours and even days. The fact you get bored after 20 minutes, says a whole lot about your imagination and ability to play the game the way it was meant to be played.
Yeah, but all of my mods are client-side. I like to have my minimap, Optifine, keybinding for sprint, faster flying in creative, Lion fullscreen support, chat logger, mob radar, and probably other things I forgot to list.
Well then either they aren't worth your time and effort or you do as this quote means "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
One of the forumites in the MMO I play has a variant of that saying:
"Teach a man to make a fire and he'll be warm all night. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life"
As far as being on topic, I'd like to point out that in my experience most people who use the word "Trivial" when talking about programming never got past "Hello World".
Like I've said, it's stupid that this used to not happen but now it is. What are they doing different? And why update after two months rather than just throw it into 1.7? Also, I prefer to use mods while I'm on servers, so I can't play without them (especially ones like Optifine and BetterSprinting).
Minecraft is still in development
(As in making it better)
It didn't break any of the plugins that I made, they worked fine. O_o
But yeah, I agree with you.
Vanilla MC is boring, and lacks anything exciting or interesting past the first 20 minutes of starting a fresh map.
Mods are the lifeblood of MC these days, so every update that breaks them is just a giant pain in the ass for both the coders that have to fix those mods, and the players that have to wait a month (or sometimes much longer) for those updates to follow up.
I beg to differ, the only way Vanilla MC can get boring is if you are not very creative. Only 20 minutes? I imagine you must not know how to build anything all that spectacular. A single build can take me hours and even days. The fact you get bored after 20 minutes, says a whole lot about your imagination and ability to play the game the way it was meant to be played.
Also 90% of the people you know that play minecraft probably represent 0.001% of the entire minecraft population. XD
There's not even a 1.6.4 ModLoader! It's as if people are boycotting this update. My server is running 1.6.2, but sadly, MCTheWalls has updated, and it's my favorite PvP server.
And if one more person suggests that we make a new profile, I'm going to punch out my ethernet socket. THAT DOESN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
I thought about this, but a lot of minor updates in the past left the mods intact, and a few mods actually stayed alive going into 1.6.4. This update only changes server-side things (including the "server" running in singleplayer), so it shouldn't go near anything like graphics.
OK, why doesn't 1.7 just do that for you? That's such a hackjob solution... making the server owner update the server and making the players run around and load the chunks. If what you say is true, and I was the guy programming that in, I would feel a pitchfork poking my butt and turn around to see the Devil of Computer Science ready to capture me for this programming crime.
Luckily, my server is going to get a new map with 1.7 just because everyone ran out of things to do on the current one, and we want all the new features, so my refusal to update to 1.6.4 and break every player's mods isn't going to be a problem.
This. The path Mojang took is going to cause problems for literally years. People are going to be building witch farms and looking for strongholds in legacy worlds and will be totally frustrated things aren't going the way they expect. It will take, in some cases, days for them to figure out the problem is they didn't load up that particular chunk in 1.6.4 prior to updating to 1.7 Hopefully somebody will eventually write up a routine to figure out where those places are and patch them up.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
Note that:
2013
Actually, if 1.7 were to do that for you it would require a pretty nasty hack: include the legacy terrain generator and shoehorn its processing into the world / chunk loading procedure, like load the chunk in the save file, re-generate it with the legacy generator and then add the structure data to the file if not present. If that's not a nasty hack then I don't know what is. Mojang's solution may not be a good one but it is probably the most elegant one available, it avoids extreme computation inefficiency and bloated code. I mean if they were to add this then how long should it remain there, causing worse experience for all the updated players? They were pretty much victims to bad judgement or bad timing if they genuinely weren't aware of it until recently, this loss of save state should have been fixed back when witch huts and fortresses were first introduced.
Yeah it's not the mods' fault at all, everything is Minecraft's fault. Boooh Jeb, you're a terrible programmer for not coordinating your changes better with the modders. Because clearly this game is owned by the modders, not by Notch or Mojang.
For more information, click .
May the force be without you.
I'm pretty sure false information in links is not allowed.
*The fact that Mojang does this suggests that they don't want us messing around with their code; see http://en.wikipedia....tion_(software), but they don't seem to enforce it either other than obfuscation.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Alright, so you're saying that contrary to other users' recommendations to use an alternate profile for 1.6.2, we HAVE to update to 1.6.4. The thing is that my map is going to be reset for 1.7 anyway and has been planned to be reset since 1.7's features were announced.
It doesn't even need to look everywhere because it can find the structures purely based on the seed.
And making all the players go around, loading chunks, to manually make the game save the structures is much worse than having the thing do it automatically, even if it does search every chunk. That's what Mojang's solution is. It's basically what you described as the bad solution except worse.
Yeah, but all of my mods are client-side. I like to have my minimap, Optifine, keybinding for sprint, faster flying in creative, Lion fullscreen support, chat logger, mob radar, and probably other things I forgot to list.
One of the forumites in the MMO I play has a variant of that saying:
"Teach a man to make a fire and he'll be warm all night. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life"
As far as being on topic, I'd like to point out that in my experience most people who use the word "Trivial" when talking about programming never got past "Hello World".
Minecraft is still in development
(As in making it better)