You do realize Notch is no longer the lead dev right? What he says or has said means nothing anymore.
Also right in your post was that they had to push features back like the API because the game wasn't ready. Lighting bugs and all that fun, not to mention the new rendering system.
How about you get some knowledge in your mind before you spout off nonsense that has no traction.
Wow... Nowhere else EVER can you actually say something as ignorant as that and still walk away feeling good about yourself.
"You do realize Notch is no longer the lead dev right? What he says or has said means nothing anymore."
Are you serious? That is the most pathetic display of fanboyism I have ever seen. Who cares if he's not the lead designer of the game? HE OWNS THE COMPANY! Of course things he says still matter! If he had ANY business sense whatsoever, he wouldn't post egotistical jokes during court issues and he most certainly would learn to keep his mouth shut about things that are obviously not ready to be announced yet. But then again, his worshipers won't ever call him out, so why should he care?
So there were a ton of bugs they had to fix that forced them to delay the API for 3 years? That didn't seem to stop them from throwing in a TON of new, buggy items/blocks in those last 3 years.
I love Minecraft and I don't even care all that much about the API because the community continues to do the job for them anyway. But this level of fanboyism is the reason they know that they don't have to follow through with anything they say. People like you are only hurting the Minecraft community as a whole with your apologetic naivety.
They have the skill just more work in front of them than they thought.
The above goes for you too. I didn't want to quote everything you said, but this really stuck out, mostly because it's so obviously not true. They have done an incredible amount of work in the last 3 years since they first announced a possible API. If they'd just take a break with throwing every possible item they can think of into the game (without ever REALLY finishing/polishing anything), then we'd probably have the API by now. In fact, I seem to remember a quote way back during beta when they said that they were actually going to stop just throwing code into the game and really hash out what they already had once the game was officially launched. That's another "announcement" that they didn't really follow through with.
I understand I bought the game "as is". That has absolutely nothing to do with the problem. This is the most unprofessional company I have EVER seen while still garnering such success. Notch's immaturity during the whole Bioware debacle, his constant "announcing" of things without ever really following through with any of it, etc. is what really bothers me.
Again, I love minecraft, but ever since the Bioware incident, I have quickly been losing any respect for Notch. I wish I could go back in time to when I first bought Minecraft and knew nothing about its creator. Now those were fun times... :'(
You clearly don't understand how large MC is and how small the Dev team is, it is 3-5 people by the way which leads to more work per person and a greater chance for mistakes to be made.
What the Hellis everyone's problem? Chill out!
You need to realize that Mojang has so many unfinished projects to do; if they focus on the Plugin API, people will complain about the lighting engine. If they focus on mob AIs, people will complain about the lack of new mobs, and vice versa!
Not only that, but this:
They have the pressure of people not liking the changes on top of people complaining about their choice of focus on top of people complaining about bugs on top of people complaining about how slow/laggy the new feature(s) is/are!
Such a task as implementing this is difficult enough by itself, but with all the pressure Mojang is facing, it's promoted to near impossible level!
You bought this game for a price inverse to the level of content, not to mention the free, constant updates. You have no right to complain at this point, so stop doing it!
Don't be so cruel, people. When was the last time you couldn't keep a promise? If you said anything other than recently, here's a quote you should consider: "You need to visit a proctologist to see if he/she can have your head removed from your own ass." - Adam Buckley
Wow... Nowhere else EVER can you actually say something as ignorant as that and still walk away feeling good about yourself.
"You do realize Notch is no longer the lead dev right? What he says or has said means nothing anymore."
Are you serious? That is the most pathetic display of fanboyism I have ever seen. Who cares if he's not the lead designer of the game? HE OWNS THE COMPANY! Of course things he says still matter! If he had ANY business sense whatsoever, he wouldn't post egotistical jokes during court issues and he most certainly would learn to keep his mouth shut about things that are obviously not ready to be announced yet. But then again, his worshipers won't ever call him out, so why should he care?
You say this applies to me so I'll respond.
I will say that I have said he's acted unprofessional. I have said that announcing that the API would be released in 1.3 before a planning meeting is unprofessional.
Anyways, there is a difference between lead developer and company owner. Notch said when he stepped down that he would not pull rank. One of the worst things to have is two conflicting leads in a project. He's almost certainly not on the team and is probably working on other projects. He has said he will not pull rank and since the team is completely different/expanded while also having a completely different lead. Unless something is going seriously wrong with Minecraft's development, such as completely deviating way from any priorities, then it would not be his place to intervene.
So there were a ton of bugs they had to fix that forced them to delay the API for 3 years? That didn't seem to stop them from throwing in a TON of new, buggy items/blocks in those last 3 years.
I love Minecraft and I don't even care all that much about the API because the community continues to do the job for them anyway. But this level of fanboyism is the reason they know that they don't have to follow through with anything they say. People like you are only hurting the Minecraft community as a whole with your apologetic naivety.
For two years, Notch has said he worked on the API. He mentioned when he moved on that he didn't work on it. That it fell through the cracks and was forgotten. That wipes two years off of saying mod support was delayed since it obviously wasn't a high nor essential criterion for releasing the game. Was it unprofessional to say that it was being worked on? Yes.
However, so far, the current iteration and plan for the Mod API has been delayed once or twice. It's a large project. If you want to know what kind of things need to be done and worked on, I recommend you talk to BC_Programming because he is more knowledgeable than me in this matter. It's not apologetic, it's having a realistic prospective and expectations.
The above goes for you too. I didn't want to quote everything you said, but this really stuck out, mostly because it's so obviously not true. They have done an incredible amount of work in the last 3 years since they first announced a possible API. If they'd just take a break with throwing every possible item they can think of into the game (without ever REALLY finishing/polishing anything), then we'd probably have the API by now. In fact, I seem to remember a quote way back during beta when they said that they were actually going to stop just throwing code into the game and really hash out what they already had once the game was officially launched. That's another "announcement" that they didn't really follow through with.
I understand I bought the game "as is". That has absolutely nothing to do with the problem. This is the most unprofessional company I have EVER seen while still garnering such success. Notch's immaturity during the whole Bioware debacle, his constant "announcing" of things without ever really following through with any of it, etc. is what really bothers me.
As I stated earlier, and I'll repost the link, Notch didn't work on the API during his tenure. That makes current work on the API taking a year. I only have a rudamentary knowledge of programming but I'm fairly certain canceling all work on everything else in Minecraft but the API and having all the dev team code for it won't necessarily speed things up. I'm certain that there would be an outcry from the community if all other work and additions were stopped for the API.
Anyways, last I checked, there are two members of the current development team (the additions from Bukkit) that are exclusively working on things to make Mojang's goal of a modular API a reality. Those additions such as the rendering engine and other shenanigans are not things one would add in half finished like things in the snapshots.
I agree with the latter paragraph. Though I don't think the Bioware thing is necessarily on topic though. Notch has done a lot of things that are unprofessional. Such as saying that they're working on the API when it wasn't being worked on.
Note: I happen to think the vanilla enchanting system leaves a lot to be desired. See? I don't knee-jerk automatically approve of everything Mojang does.
All of the things you listed are proof-of-concept additions that were never before part of Minecraft. I'd say that some of them could have been "test runs" on new features they were coding into the engine, just to ensure that they worked.
For example, with the addition of Witches came code for localizing a mob to spawn inside of a very specific space (the witch hut) ... Not only that, but they also mean testing and bug-squashing in the realm of splash-potion-based combat.
The Ghast and the Squid just drift in random directions -- no pursuit, no avoidance, no navigating complex three-dimensional spaces. The squid doesn't even have enough of an AI to know to dive back down when it surfaces and starts suffocating in the air. Bats, on the other hand, react to and avoid the player -- and navigate tight spaces to do it. It's the first mob with 3d motion to have any sort of pathfinding.
This thread is fun to read... Actually I think Mojang (after they get the issues worked out) should hire the forge dev team. Forge is a great modding platform imo and would help mod developers who already have forge mods out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You can join mc.endervortex.com if you want. It's a bending server
To be fair, from what I've seen of Notch's coding style (and I've seen some of his code outside of Minecraft), the game's code is an insanely tangled web of vaguely named, uncommented classes chattering back and forth to accomplish even very simple tasks because he apparently can't be bothered with any manner of encapsulation or polymorphism - which I might add are part of the core focus of object oriented programming, meant to make the code as modular as possible. Had he made use of these from early on, much of the work that would go into making the API would already be done, and we would likely have more content in the game, as new content would not break old content nearly as much.
To be fair, from what I've seen of Notch's coding style (and I've seen some of his code outside of Minecraft), the game's code is an insanely tangled web of vaguely named, uncommented classes chattering back and forth to accomplish even very simple tasks because he apparently can't be bothered with any manner of encapsulation or polymorphism
D'OH! The new team has their work cut out for them then, cleaning up that mess.
I just want to ask, why not just make Forge the official mod API. I mean, if the devs of Forge agree.
It makes everybody happy. People who already develop mods don't need to learn anything new, the Forge devs still get to do what they love doing, and Mojang gets a Mod API for free. So why is Mojang trying to reinvent the wheel? Just leave well enough alone.
I just want to ask, why not just make Forge the official mod API. I mean, if the devs of Forge agree.
It makes everybody happy. People who already develop mods don't need to learn anything new, the Forge devs still get to do what they love doing, and Mojang gets a Mod API for free. So why is Mojang trying to reinvent the wheel? Just leave well enough alone.
The devs are trying to make a mod API that is compatible with anything and doesn't break if you look at it the wrong way.
I just want to ask, why not just make Forge the official mod API. I mean, if the devs of Forge agree.
It makes everybody happy. People who already develop mods don't need to learn anything new, the Forge devs still get to do what they love doing, and Mojang gets a Mod API for free. So why is Mojang trying to reinvent the wheel? Just leave well enough alone.
Because forge isn't anything near what a true plugin API can be. Forge goes in and sinks its hooks into most of the class files to expose functionality to mods, this is what we call "hacking" (not the bad kind, that is cracking). All of what Minecraft is still exists in those class files, but forge can override/replace/block sections of it, by messing with variables and functions to do whatever they want. This is a problem, all this add-on code is stapled in wherever it can be put, witch is a mess, and a nightmare to maintain.
What we need is a game designed completely for expandability. Basically you break it all down into base parts, and the lowest level stuff like the engine its self, the rendering engine, and the physics engine, are the base, each with certain perimeters that can be tweaked by API calls. Then on top you get the game engine that handles the basics of how the game run, on top of that are things like world gen and entity physics, and on that we have things like block properties and items, then we have high level functionality like crafting and smelting, and combat with health and speed and armor.
Each level has a section of API dedicated to it, and each level on top of it USES THAT API! That means even core game features are merely plugins! Worldgen? A plugin! Creepers? plugin. Redstone? Yep, plugin. That means not only can the core functionality be renovated without needing the whole game to update, it also means that plugins that do not have anything to do with the change are unaffected! And even those that do probably will not be, as long as the API layer is not changed, as all the methods they use will remain.
And each of the 'core modules' (the plugins that are part of the default distribution) can also have its own API layer, so that redstone can have plugins on top of it, and even 3rd party plugins can have an API layer, allowing for meta-plugins.
OR You can strip the game down, don't like creepers? Turn em off, never use redstone? Disable! Can't stand taiga? Get rid of it! And modders could even tear it down further and create almost completely different games within the same engine.
All without needing to modify any of the Mojang code, without having to edit the minecraft.jar, and in a way so user friendly that the mod users will never have to ask "der, how to install mod? how to get WinROR?".
ALSO: The launcher can hash check the jar, and all the plugin jars! If any of it is old-school modded (edited the class files) then servers can choose not to allow your client to join, thus only server approved plugins can be used, cheat clients and Xray (while still possible as plugins) can be blocked with near 100% accuracy. And you don't need to be kicked for having a Xray plugin installed, it will simply be disabled while connected to that server.
Okay, you basically answered your own question: they're not going to release the Plugin API anytime soon. It's been "in the works" since beta 1.7. And Mojang hasn't really said anything about it anytime recently that I know of, so until Mojang decides to talk about it, it's not going to happen.
Well then YOU go make a mop API that integrates smoothly with Minecraft and is easy to use. And since it seems to be so popular to quote Notch promising a Mod API I noticed Notch said the plugin API would utilize Lua as the scripting language for the plugin's to be written with, so make sure I can write all my mods in Lua, so that means you can't just make a script to load Java files, you need to make a REAL API that loads Lua.
Once you are done with that let me know how it went.
Guys Mojang's working very hard, The new stuff is to give us something to do wile we wait for PluginAPI!
If they're working on content to "tide us over" then by logical extension they CAN'T be working on the API.
Now this wouldn't be a problem if Mojang was larger (so a few people could work on content to tide us over and the rest could work on the API) but for some weird reason they're obsessed with the "indie" classification so they can't do that. They have tons of money and could easily hire more people.
They have tons of money and could easily hire more people.
If you have time (and inclination) I would recommend reading a book called The Mythical Man-Month, which covers exactly why "tossing more people at the project" doesn't usually work in speeding up development, especially for software engineering.
Wow... Nowhere else EVER can you actually say something as ignorant as that and still walk away feeling good about yourself.
"You do realize Notch is no longer the lead dev right? What he says or has said means nothing anymore."
Are you serious? That is the most pathetic display of fanboyism I have ever seen. Who cares if he's not the lead designer of the game? HE OWNS THE COMPANY! Of course things he says still matter! If he had ANY business sense whatsoever, he wouldn't post egotistical jokes during court issues and he most certainly would learn to keep his mouth shut about things that are obviously not ready to be announced yet. But then again, his worshipers won't ever call him out, so why should he care?
So there were a ton of bugs they had to fix that forced them to delay the API for 3 years? That didn't seem to stop them from throwing in a TON of new, buggy items/blocks in those last 3 years.
I love Minecraft and I don't even care all that much about the API because the community continues to do the job for them anyway. But this level of fanboyism is the reason they know that they don't have to follow through with anything they say. People like you are only hurting the Minecraft community as a whole with your apologetic naivety.
The above goes for you too. I didn't want to quote everything you said, but this really stuck out, mostly because it's so obviously not true. They have done an incredible amount of work in the last 3 years since they first announced a possible API. If they'd just take a break with throwing every possible item they can think of into the game (without ever REALLY finishing/polishing anything), then we'd probably have the API by now. In fact, I seem to remember a quote way back during beta when they said that they were actually going to stop just throwing code into the game and really hash out what they already had once the game was officially launched. That's another "announcement" that they didn't really follow through with.
I understand I bought the game "as is". That has absolutely nothing to do with the problem. This is the most unprofessional company I have EVER seen while still garnering such success. Notch's immaturity during the whole Bioware debacle, his constant "announcing" of things without ever really following through with any of it, etc. is what really bothers me.
Again, I love minecraft, but ever since the Bioware incident, I have quickly been losing any respect for Notch. I wish I could go back in time to when I first bought Minecraft and knew nothing about its creator. Now those were fun times... :'(
Is that a Question?
You need to realize that Mojang has so many unfinished projects to do; if they focus on the Plugin API, people will complain about the lighting engine. If they focus on mob AIs, people will complain about the lack of new mobs, and vice versa!
Not only that, but this:
They have the pressure of people not liking the changes on top of people complaining about their choice of focus on top of people complaining about bugs on top of people complaining about how slow/laggy the new feature(s) is/are!
Such a task as implementing this is difficult enough by itself, but with all the pressure Mojang is facing, it's promoted to near impossible level!
You bought this game for a price inverse to the level of content, not to mention the free, constant updates. You have no right to complain at this point, so stop doing it!
Don't be so cruel, people. When was the last time you couldn't keep a promise? If you said anything other than recently, here's a quote you should consider: "You need to visit a proctologist to see if he/she can have your head removed from your own ass." - Adam Buckley
You say this applies to me so I'll respond.
I will say that I have said he's acted unprofessional. I have said that announcing that the API would be released in 1.3 before a planning meeting is unprofessional.
Anyways, there is a difference between lead developer and company owner. Notch said when he stepped down that he would not pull rank. One of the worst things to have is two conflicting leads in a project. He's almost certainly not on the team and is probably working on other projects. He has said he will not pull rank and since the team is completely different/expanded while also having a completely different lead. Unless something is going seriously wrong with Minecraft's development, such as completely deviating way from any priorities, then it would not be his place to intervene.
http://notch.tumblr....ssar-jag-micken
For two years, Notch has said he worked on the API. He mentioned when he moved on that he didn't work on it. That it fell through the cracks and was forgotten. That wipes two years off of saying mod support was delayed since it obviously wasn't a high nor essential criterion for releasing the game. Was it unprofessional to say that it was being worked on? Yes.
However, so far, the current iteration and plan for the Mod API has been delayed once or twice. It's a large project. If you want to know what kind of things need to be done and worked on, I recommend you talk to BC_Programming because he is more knowledgeable than me in this matter. It's not apologetic, it's having a realistic prospective and expectations.
As I stated earlier, and I'll repost the link, Notch didn't work on the API during his tenure. That makes current work on the API taking a year. I only have a rudamentary knowledge of programming but I'm fairly certain canceling all work on everything else in Minecraft but the API and having all the dev team code for it won't necessarily speed things up. I'm certain that there would be an outcry from the community if all other work and additions were stopped for the API.
Anyways, last I checked, there are two members of the current development team (the additions from Bukkit) that are exclusively working on things to make Mojang's goal of a modular API a reality. Those additions such as the rendering engine and other shenanigans are not things one would add in half finished like things in the snapshots.
I agree with the latter paragraph. Though I don't think the Bioware thing is necessarily on topic though. Notch has done a lot of things that are unprofessional. Such as saying that they're working on the API when it wasn't being worked on.
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/12848184253/soon
Good point -- I hadn't thought of that.
testing Flying/Swimming Mobs?
The Ghast and the Squid just drift in random directions -- no pursuit, no avoidance, no navigating complex three-dimensional spaces. The squid doesn't even have enough of an AI to know to dive back down when it surfaces and starts suffocating in the air. Bats, on the other hand, react to and avoid the player -- and navigate tight spaces to do it. It's the first mob with 3d motion to have any sort of pathfinding.
D'OH! The new team has their work cut out for them then, cleaning up that mess.
It makes everybody happy. People who already develop mods don't need to learn anything new, the Forge devs still get to do what they love doing, and Mojang gets a Mod API for free. So why is Mojang trying to reinvent the wheel? Just leave well enough alone.
The devs are trying to make a mod API that is compatible with anything and doesn't break if you look at it the wrong way.
Because forge isn't anything near what a true plugin API can be. Forge goes in and sinks its hooks into most of the class files to expose functionality to mods, this is what we call "hacking" (not the bad kind, that is cracking). All of what Minecraft is still exists in those class files, but forge can override/replace/block sections of it, by messing with variables and functions to do whatever they want. This is a problem, all this add-on code is stapled in wherever it can be put, witch is a mess, and a nightmare to maintain.
What we need is a game designed completely for expandability. Basically you break it all down into base parts, and the lowest level stuff like the engine its self, the rendering engine, and the physics engine, are the base, each with certain perimeters that can be tweaked by API calls. Then on top you get the game engine that handles the basics of how the game run, on top of that are things like world gen and entity physics, and on that we have things like block properties and items, then we have high level functionality like crafting and smelting, and combat with health and speed and armor.
Each level has a section of API dedicated to it, and each level on top of it USES THAT API! That means even core game features are merely plugins! Worldgen? A plugin! Creepers? plugin. Redstone? Yep, plugin. That means not only can the core functionality be renovated without needing the whole game to update, it also means that plugins that do not have anything to do with the change are unaffected! And even those that do probably will not be, as long as the API layer is not changed, as all the methods they use will remain.
And each of the 'core modules' (the plugins that are part of the default distribution) can also have its own API layer, so that redstone can have plugins on top of it, and even 3rd party plugins can have an API layer, allowing for meta-plugins.
OR You can strip the game down, don't like creepers? Turn em off, never use redstone? Disable! Can't stand taiga? Get rid of it! And modders could even tear it down further and create almost completely different games within the same engine.
All without needing to modify any of the Mojang code, without having to edit the minecraft.jar, and in a way so user friendly that the mod users will never have to ask "der, how to install mod? how to get WinROR?".
ALSO: The launcher can hash check the jar, and all the plugin jars! If any of it is old-school modded (edited the class files) then servers can choose not to allow your client to join, thus only server approved plugins can be used, cheat clients and Xray (while still possible as plugins) can be blocked with near 100% accuracy. And you don't need to be kicked for having a Xray plugin installed, it will simply be disabled while connected to that server.
Okay, you basically answered your own question: they're not going to release the Plugin API anytime soon. It's been "in the works" since beta 1.7. And Mojang hasn't really said anything about it anytime recently that I know of, so until Mojang decides to talk about it, it's not going to happen.
Cats.
Once you are done with that let me know how it went.
Here is Notch saying server plugins will be written in the form of Lua: http://notch.tumblr.com/post/140842759/throwing-in-many-more-hours-and-survival-mode-plans
Snowey1994: There dispensers
You just said exactly what needed to be said in the best way possible.
Too busy making horses.
If they're working on content to "tide us over" then by logical extension they CAN'T be working on the API.
Now this wouldn't be a problem if Mojang was larger (so a few people could work on content to tide us over and the rest could work on the API) but for some weird reason they're obsessed with the "indie" classification so they can't do that. They have tons of money and could easily hire more people.
::sigh::
(Source: http://www.minecraftforum.net/news/798-the-new-minecraft-launcher-what-does-it-mean-for-minecraft/)