1) Food in general is plentiful in Minecraft, and I think this is a good thing -- it means you can focus on other stuff beyond bare survival.
2) Once you get a farm going, you will have a surplus of food -- starting with wheat, later meat and potatoes. That means, after the early game, food is not a problem regardless. At this point, you don't need bonemeal -- just go harvest your field and/or slaughter a few chickens or cows.
3) This nerf hits one place only -- it clobbers the early game, and especially beginning players.That is what I and others are complaining about.
4) What makes this not just upsetting, but offensive, is that this same nerf is not particularly hard on wood farming, and especially the famously overpowered jungle giants. You need two bonemeals instead of one to grow a tree? Fine, whatever. The jungle giant still gives you "wood as fast as you can chop".
5) And it's pointless, because after the early game, bone meal is purely a convenience. When you've got half a stack of beef and a stack of wood in your pocket, you can afford to plant and go off to do other things while it grows. It's just a little handier if you can whip up extra wood to fence a town, or fill out a new crop field, in one day instead of two or three. So, it's messing with the wrong half of that convenience, for no particular reason.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
I honestly think it's a pretty good idea. Probably 0.3% of the people who play Minecraft actually fish, so it would give a reason to. Fish isn't very easy to come by either, you can't just farm it.
I honestly think it's a pretty good idea. Probably 0.3% of the people who play Minecraft actually fish, so it would give a reason to. Fish isn't very easy to come by either, you can't just farm it.
Why should this force people to fish? Make one thing completely useless just to force someone to try something? This sounds like a cell phone company tactic.
Fishing is for the most part, boring. And to nerf something just because some people AREN'T doing something is a horrible idea for a sandbox game. Let people do what they want. Fishing is more something I do when very bored, I don't rely on it for food unless I have NO other choice, since fishing is spotty, and can get tedious if your trying to feed yourself.
And this doesn't even fix it for being OP for guys with tons of bones. It only makes life rough for new players.
And for christ sake, can someone tell me why a NECESSITY being easy to get is OP?
What If healing was no longer a passive, every few second thing, and you needed to take a day of bed rest every time you got hurt? Sure it would be "neat" and would make passive healing more "balanced" but this would end up making people bang their heads on their desks.
Food is food. If you have too much, good for you, you wont starve. How is too much food OP at all?
Since I doubt Mojang will return bonemeal back to it's former power I think there should be a way to craft better bonemeal that will insta grow crops. The recipe idea so far would be Bone + Raw Fish = (insta grow bonemeal AKA don't have a name for it). Or if you want to really get complicated maybe Bone + Raw Fish + Egg = The special bonemeal. The egg may sound strange though. Crafting this would give 3 of the special bonemeal.
My personal stance on the nerf is that it is not necessary and only serves as an annoyance and does not make survival really harder or fun. I'm not discussing why my opinion is that but I want to know what you guys think of the recipe for insta grow special bonemeal?
3) This nerf hits one place only -- it clobbers the early game, and especially beginning players.That is what I and others are complaining about.
Total garbage, also lies.
It is free to punch animals to death and eat their meat raw. You can do it without any tools or blocks, and it keeps you alive. Have fun trying to kill a skeleton with no weapons. Clearly one method is better for the beginning of the game....
It is free to punch animals to death and eat their meat raw. You can do it without any tools or blocks, and it keeps you alive. Have fun trying to kill a skeleton with no weapons. Clearly one method is better for the beginning of the game....
Implying there's always animals at spawn ESPECIALLY on servers. Also people make stone swords in the first five minutes.
Implying there's always animals at spawn ESPECIALLY on servers. Also people make stone swords in the first five minutes.
There is technically the potential for animals to be anywhere; animals still respawn despite being persistent. I'm just saying; there is easier food to get than bread.
There is technically the potential for animals to be anywhere; animals still respawn despite being persistent. I'm just saying; there is easier food to get than bread.
This isn't really the case, As long as you get seeds (ANY biome, besides deserts and ocean) dirt, and wood, you can have wheat grown. Anything else is iffy, and not "easier" to get off hand. Animals are hit and miss, fish require spiders and water, and even THEN you may get no bites at all.
And nobody ever said bone meal on wheat was OP before now. And even if it was, this is food, not armor or weapons. Who cares if somebody who can't play minecraft can get a full stomach without knowing everything in the game, or if people can get a bit of wheat on the fly? Why the heck is this so bad? Is having a full stomach the new diamond armor and it allows you to fly or insta mine, something I didn't see in the new snapshots?
Whats the problem with this?...
and another question, which isn't necessarily at you : Why would a tree be EASIER to grow than wheat? I ask this cause its now better to make trees and see if there were any apples on them, since that would provide a better profit than EVER doing wheat with bone meal.
I liked the way bonemeal worked before. I like it how it will work in the future. It's not that bad since after you played a couple days you will have more bones than you would ever need.
The only bad thing is that you can't "give" yourself a bread right of the start with just 1 bone. Which I think is good.
For me the issue really isn't about early game. It's more that it would be annoying having to manage with big farms(especially on SMP) because you would have to repeatedly go through rows of crops many more times with bonemeal now. I know that the current system isn't balance yet by what someone said about a twitter post so I know things will get better instead of sticking to 7 for every crop.
I think early game people should be able to survive even with a nerf in place though I'm not too familiar with SSP *shrugs*.
and another question, which isn't necessarily at you : Why would a tree be EASIER to grow than wheat? I ask this cause its now better to make trees and see if there were any apples on them, since that would provide a better profit than EVER doing wheat with bone meal.
No clue, seems a bit off to me too. To your other points; I pose that I think that the idea of even having the hunger system is to add challenge, instant growth on wheat makes the need to actually grow food and hunt totally pointless.
So I say, if you wanna keep the bonemeal the original way, then remove beef, pork, chicken, potatoes, melons, and every other food.
No clue, seems a bit off to me too. To your other points; I pose that I think that the idea of even having the hunger system is to add challenge, instant growth on wheat makes the need to actually grow food and hunt totally pointless.
So I say, if you wanna keep the bonemeal the original way, then remove beef, pork, chicken, potatoes, melons, and every other food.
So killing skeletons isn't a challenge that takes effort? -.-
Also your suggestion to remove all other food is downright stupid and childish. Just because there's a million options to GET food doesn't mean there's a million times MORE food in-game. It just means there's more potential sources. And as far as "instant" This is also dumb. Its only "instant" if you don't count the time collecting wood, stone, killing skeletons, and cutting grass. This IS work, and is by NO means instant. By your argument I could say that plopping down iron and a stick onto a table making an instant pick is op, cause "you should be patient, and forge every pick!".
Its only OP if you have tons of it, but that's just the nature of this game. Having tons of diamonds is OP too, but should we nerf diamonds?
Is OP because starvation is a part of the game. If you start without anything in a unknown place my first concern is food. In minecraft there are so many food sources that this aspect of gameplay is bloated as hell.
You're acting like Bones just fall into your lap magically. You are forgetting that you don't just happen upon a Skeleton spawner within the first night, that Skeletons are already the toughest mob to kill and are getting tougher, that FOOD is not SUPPOSED to be an issue when it is literally as easy as finding Dirt to obtain, and that Minecraft is not about surviving but thriving.
On the server thingy, if it is an anarchy server go steal it, if it's a friendly one, the admins should care for the health of new player, maybe encouraging the building (in a building game OMG) of shred farm at spawn. Or give newbies enough food to survive at the beginning. Not the game problem.
It is free to punch animals to death and eat their meat raw. You can do it without any tools or blocks, and it keeps you alive. Have fun trying to kill a skeleton with no weapons. Clearly one method is better for the beginning of the game....
Hey, you just admitted that there were no problems with Bonemeal for beginning players. After all, there were better methods, and it takes less risk than fighting multiple Skeletons to get a few pieces of Bread...
Though, for some reason, you continue to adamantly disagree that this nerf negatively affects them. Not sure why you are, but it does.
No clue, seems a bit off to me too. To your other points; I pose that I think that the idea of even having the hunger system is to add challenge, instant growth on wheat makes the need to actually grow food and hunt totally pointless.
The hunger system is pointless in SSP, mostly pointless in SMP, and only really comes into play in custom maps, which I think is what the Mojang devs wanted, otherwise they wouldn't have made food as plentiful as it is (which is without Bonemeal).
Instant growth on Wheat does not make hunting or growing food pointless. On your first night, you'll likely kill many animals and there will be significantly less risk to that than killing a Skeleton, especially since the new buffs to them. In addition, when you've got enough food to last, Bonemeal is nothing but a conveniece. You're better off letting it grow on its own and leaving to go do things to better yourself, like mining/caving, instead of spamming Bonemeal over and over and over to get some more food, when you're already settled.
So I say, if you wanna keep the bonemeal the original way, then remove beef, pork, chicken, potatoes, melons, and every other food.
Why? Because Bread is the best food ever because of Bonemeal? Bullcrap. A ton of people don't even use Bonemeal to grow crops to eat because it's unimportant, and entirely a convenience, and not a vital thing when there are all sorts of other sources of food.
You would rather there be only Bread as a food source? That's just an annoying hindrance.
Actually tons of diamonds isn't OP. The cost of maintaining and creating diamond tools is so high that you can not have enough diamonds, ever.
Instant growth is over powered.
Instant growth is only overpowered if you're an ultra hardcore survival junkie that believes that surviving in Minecraft shouldn't be easy, and that the game should be based around surviving and not thriving.
Needless to say, if you would really like a challenge to your ability to survive in Minecraft, then there are tons of custom maps to fufill your want.
Since Vanilla Minecraft is not supposed to be about fighting for your life, however, I want to suggest you stop trying to make it about it.
It isn't rocket science. Quite frankly if you are so low on bonemeal that this is a serious problem then you fail at this game and deserve to starve to death.
I'm sorry that I have to point this out to your rocket scientist self, but Skeleton Spawners don't magically appear when you're first starting out, and that is the only time that Bonemeal is really used to grow food.
People with spawners are not affected by this nerf at all. People who do not have them yet are. This nerf literally forces players to build Skeleton spawners instead of allowing them to be optional.
It isn't rocket science. Quite frankly if you are so low on bonemeal that this is a serious problem then you fail at this game and deserve to starve to death.
Not everyone has a spawner near them, you nincompoop, some don't have any AT ALL TO BEGIN WITH without structures. And saying I need to have an endless supply of bone meal makes the whole idea of a nerf pointless. Might as well say I need 20 bone meal for a wheat, cause this would be possible anyway, if taking a little longer.
I could MUCH MORE EASILY put in an argument that this very spawner idea was OP, since you can get hundreds of items in minutes while being afk and sitting on your butt, or going out for coffee and donuts. While using bone meal still takes effort, is a manual process, and DOES take a little bit of work, and requires the player to do the work of seeding, growing, and harvesting.
I'm starting to think the people who say wheat is OP are a bunch of trolls, especially since some say trees should take LESS bone meal than Wheat.
Also you saying I'm a bad player for this is outright insulting, to me and ANYONE who also agrees this nerf is bonkers. Food is a necessity, It shouldn't be too difficult to get. Its more like a small task, than a "project".
Actually tons of diamonds isn't OP. The cost of maintaining and creating diamond tools is so high that you can not have enough diamonds, ever.
Instant growth is over powered.
Its more "Op" than having bread easy to get. How does being able to do this give any advantage to one person over another? or adversely effects game-play? The only reason I've heard is it shouldn't be instant, but with the growth rate of plants I often find after planting a field, some have already hit stage 2. So bone meal is next to USELESS this way.
So tell me HOW this is over powered? What does this make so much worse than fishing, or apples, or whatever? It still takes time and work, so your ONLY complaint with validity is that it turns from seeds to wheat instantly. But this doesn't even get fixed this way since you can spam it for the same effect.
This nerf for wheat is a pain in the butt. Nothing else.
Hey, you just admitted that there were no problems with Bonemeal for beginning players.
Where did you learn to read? I said it is easier to punch pigs to get food than it is to get bones as an argument against bones being a necessity for beginning players.
I totally agree that minecraft is about thriving, not surviving, but I full support any measure implemented into the game to increase the difficulty. Making it impossible to grow food in the blink of an eye is a good step forward. I don't think being strong enough to get bones regularly from skeletons means the player is automatically granted a free pass in growing food. I think as you become stronger the game should become harder.
You start a new world, use wood and stone tools, punch pigs and cows for food. The next step is cooking the food so you get more out of the food. After that you make better tools because you can mine for longer without starving. Now you have better weapons, and you can spend your iron on armor. Fight skeletons, get bonemeal. Sustainable farming is now possible.
That is where we reach this current fork in the road. There are two paths, to take. One takes you down the road of ease (the old bonemeal); now that you are looting the crap out of skeletons you have a near infinite supply of bonemeal, thus you have a near infinite supply of cake, animals, cookies, and bread. Eating, making books, and making huge carpeted floors with wool is no longer rewarding for the work. It is easy to do. Books means enchantments, you get stronger with no real cost. Easy.
Or you take the other path, where bonemeal isn't instant and the game remains somewhat challenging. You use bonemeal to slightly expedite the farming. The path to enchanting and cookies is more difficult than the first path, but more balanced.
In no game should there ever be a point where you are so strong the game is no longer a challenge. What is the point of even playing?
Where did you learn to read? I said it is easier to punch pigs to get food than it is to get bones as an argument against bones being a necessity for beginning players.
I totally agree that minecraft is about thriving, not surviving, but I full support any measure implemented into the game to increase the difficulty. Making it impossible to grow food in the blink of an eye is a good step forward. I don't think being strong enough to get bones regularly from skeletons means the player is automatically granted a free pass in growing food. I think as you become stronger the game should become harder.
You start a new world, use wood and stone tools, punch pigs and cows for food. The next step is cooking the food so you get more out of the food. After that you make better tools because you can mine for longer without starving. Now you have better weapons, and you can spend your iron on armor. Fight skeletons, get bonemeal. Sustainable farming is now possible.
That is where we reach this current fork in the road. There are two paths, to take. One takes you down the road of ease (the old bonemeal); now that you are looting the crap out of skeletons you have a near infinite supply of bonemeal, thus you have a near infinite supply of cake, animals, cookies, and bread. Eating, making books, and making huge carpeted floors with wool is no longer rewarding for the work. It is easy to do. Books means enchantments, you get stronger with no real cost. Easy.
Or you take the other path, where bonemeal isn't instant and the game remains somewhat challenging. You use bonemeal to slightly expedite the farming. The path to enchanting and cookies is more difficult than the first path, but more balanced.
In no game should there ever be a point where you are so strong the game is no longer a challenge. What is the point of even playing?
It seems like you are saying that bonemeal helps you make an enchanting table instantly.
Enchanting tables are crafted with the following ingredients:
4 obsidian
2 diamonds
1 book
The book is made of:
1 leather
3 paper (3 sugar cane each)
Not a single one of these can be collected faster using bonemeal!
I'm beginning to think that you might be trolling. Bonemeal was not so OP it broke the game! If it was, you (and not just you personally) would have complained about it BEFORE this snapshot.
Where did you learn to read? I said it is easier to punch pigs to get food than it is to get bones as an argument against bones being a necessity for beginning players.
It's also an argument against how Bones are OP because they can provide the player with (ermaigawd) instant food.
You kill a pig, you've got food. Having instant crops isn't going to change the fact that you're already fed, and will have little impact when the alternative is doing other things while your crops grow by themselves.
I totally agree that minecraft is about thriving, not surviving, but I full support any measure implemented into the game to increase the difficulty. Making it impossible to grow food in the blink of an eye is a good step forward. I don't think being strong enough to get bones regularly from skeletons means the player is automatically granted a free pass in growing food. I think as you become stronger the game should become harder.
If you want to talk difficulty then step away from calling Bonemeal OP because you can grow food after killing the toughest regular mob in the game. You'll still have a free pass at food without resorting to Bonemeal. There are pigs, cows, chickens, pumpkins... all sorts of things you can gather without so much as touching Bonemeal and they will keep you alive while your crops grow automatically. There are also Villages you can pillage for free food, and there's no difficulty in that at all.
Bonemeal doesn't make the game easier. It provides a convenience for things that are already easy to get and allows the player to optionally remove tediousness from the equation if he has Bones, which he can only get from risking his life in combat or through lucky spawner finds.
If you're so obsessed with difficulty and surviving becoming important factors in Minecraft, go play one of the many custom maps that makes surviving difficult, because surviving in Minecraft will never become hard in Vanilla, regardless of what happens to Bonemeal.
You start a new world, use wood and stone tools, punch pigs and cows for food. The next step is cooking the food so you get more out of the food. After that you make better tools because you can mine for longer without starving. Now you have better weapons, and you can spend your iron on armor. Fight skeletons, get bonemeal. Sustainable farming is now possible.
I don't know what rock you were living under before Bonemeal was nerfed, but sustainable farming is possible from the get-go as long as you have Seeds, a hoe, and a source of water. It takes a bit to get started, but you'll never run out and you do not need Bonemeal to get started. Bonemeal just expedites the process a bit, after you've toppled some Skeletons, which continue to be buffed and are the toughest regular mob in the game to fight and kill.
The way you make it sound is that farming is only possible with Bonemeal, that there are no other option available to the player, and that it's such a big fricking deal that the player gets some more food, when food is already the easiest, most plentiful resource in the game.
That is where we reach this current fork in the road. There are two paths, to take. One takes you down the road of ease (the old bonemeal); now that you are looting the crap out of skeletons you have a near infinite supply of bonemeal, thus you have a near infinite supply of cake, animals, cookies, and bread. Eating, making books, and making huge carpeted floors with wool is no longer rewarding for the work. It is easy to do. Books means enchantments, you get stronger with no real cost. Easy.
I'm sorry, but what?
You're not looting the crap out of Skeletons. Without a skeleton farm, Bonemeal slightly expedites the work required for the player to become stronger. Without a spawner, Bones are not so ridiculously common, unless you spend multiple nights out looking for Skeletons to build up enough Bonemeal to make enough Wheat to breed the Cows... which happens automatically anyway without forcing you to go look for Skeletons to build up to get Bonemeal for Wheat. So... in other words, the difference is risk versus time. You put much more risk into finding enough Bones/Bonemeal to grow enough Wheat to feed enough Cows to get enough Leather, while the other option is letting the Wheat grow naturally while you go gather the resources necessary to make an Enchanting Table in the first place... Which is 5 diamonds and 4 Obsidian. Hell, getting enough Wheat to feed the Cows is a non-issue either way. What really takes the longest amount of time is getting the Cows to breed enough so that you have enough Leather to make Books, and that applies regardless of how much you use Bonemeal because you can't use Bonemeal to expedite hormonal cycles.
Also, you'll have plenty of non-Bread food anyway by the time you've got a bunch of Bones, meaning an "infinite supply" of food is pretty meaningless. You can kill roaming Chickens, Cows, Pigs, gather and plant Pumpkins/Sugar Cane while farming Eggs to grow an infinite amount of Pumpkin Pies... or you can forgo the wait for Pumpkins and just breed chickens with Seeds and eat THEM because Chicken >>> Bread.
What is your point exactly? Are you continuing to daydream about the day when survival becomes important in Minecraft and ignoring that how Bonemeal isn't OP because of the plethora of choices available to the player, even if you take Bonemeal out of the equation entirely?
Or you take the other path, where bonemeal isn't instant and the game remains somewhat challenging. You use bonemeal to slightly expedite the farming. The path to enchanting and cookies is more difficult than the first path, but more balanced.
Or we can not go down this misguided path in the first place because there was never an issue with Bonemeal instantly growing crops in Minecraft. Survivalcraft, maybe, but not Minecraft.
In no game should there ever be a point where you are so strong the game is no longer a challenge. What is the point of even playing?
In Minecraft, it is to build bigger and better structures. Or, to restart from scratch. Or do some Single Player challenges like the End of Crafting. Or, to join an SMP server and work with/fight against other players and keep the game interesting. Or to make a Youtube channel off of Minecraft.
Where did you learn to read? I said it is easier to punch pigs to get food than it is to get bones as an argument against bones being a necessity for beginning players.
yes bones aren't a necessity, but this does not address ANYTHING, its only saying I should should shut my mouth about wheat, and use some other food, and just "deal with it". And like I said before, animals are not always around. In-fact in some circumstances they are nowhere to be seen.
I totally agree that minecraft is about thriving, not surviving, but I full support any measure implemented into the game to increase the difficulty. Making it impossible to grow food in the blink of an eye is a good step forward. I don't think being strong enough to get bones regularly from skeletons means the player is automatically granted a free pass in growing food. I think as you become stronger the game should become harder.
for your level of "hard" this is going past what MOST people want. Theres a thresh-hold for people's desires in minecraft. Desires that make sense to have in game (pistons) and desires that would ADVERESELY Effect other players (adding in goblin raids, or pumping up the difficulty on everyone). The second is best for mods, as if people don't want it, they don't get it. Also you saying people shouldn't get a reward of easier food for risking their lives in combat, or foraging at dawn has no merit. Either way its still work, still takes time, and the only "instant" part about it is the growth itself. Everything else is far from instant.
You start a new world, use wood and stone tools, punch pigs and cows for food. The next step is cooking the food so you get more out of the food. After that you make better tools because you can mine for longer without starving. Now you have better weapons, and you can spend your iron on armor. Fight skeletons, get bonemeal. Sustainable farming is now possible.
First off, cooking food is almost always done with meat, its a waste otherwise. and you saying fighting skeletons is the LAST part in the process is nuts. Bone meal is for the most part is used by newcomers, not used by people with a giant farm, it would be better to sit on your butt and harvest as it comes in. Using bone meal on a full farm is just about pointless before, and TOTALLY useless now.
That is where we reach this current fork in the road. There are two paths, to take. One takes you down the road of ease (the old bonemeal); now that you are looting the crap out of skeletons you have a near infinite supply of bonemeal, thus you have a near infinite supply of cake, animals, cookies, and bread. Eating, making books, and making huge carpeted floors with wool is no longer rewarding for the work. It is easy to do. Books means enchantments, you get stronger with no real cost. Easy.
AGAIN THIS IS A NON-POINT. IF SOMEONE HAS A FARM WITH THIS MANY WHEAT PATCHES CONSTANTLY HARVESTED AND REPLANTED, BONE MEAL IS POINTLESS. AND EVEN IF THEY USE IT, ITS ONLY OP CAUSE, AGAIN, THEY HAVE TONS OF IT. BONE MEAL HAS NO EFFECT WHETHER OR NOT A GIANT FARM CAN PRODUCE TONS OF CAKE, WOOL, COOKIES, BOOKS, OR ANYTHING. ITS BECAUSE ITS GIANT AND IS SELF SUSTAINING EVEN IF BONE MEAL DIDN'T EXIST IN THE GAME AT ANY POINT. AND ENCHANTMENTS NEED DIAMONDS AND OBSIDIAN, WHICH YOU IGNORED. AND BY THE TIME I GET A FARM BIG ENOUGH FOR FEEDING MYSELF, AND MY FRIENDS, I HAVE AN ENCHANTMENT TABLE ANYWAY. YOUR ONLY ARGUMENT HAS BEEN THAT ITS OP WHEN THERE'S TONS OF IT, BUT THAT'S STILL THE CASE IF YOU HAVE TONS OF IT. AND IF I HAVE A FARM THAT BIG, I NEVER USE BONE MEAL. EVER EVER EVER EVER!!!!! WHY? CAUSE ITS MORE EFFICIENT TO JUST WAIT.
Or you take the other path, where bonemeal isn't instant and the game remains somewhat challenging. You use bonemeal to slightly expedite the farming. The path to enchanting and cookies is more difficult than the first path, but more balanced.
Again, READ ABOVE. Bone meal isn't used by people who are well off for the most part, they let the land do the work. If you have a chunk worth of land for JUST wheat, will you use bone meal when your already getting more wheat than you could ever hope to eat per day? NO. Why? Cause the land does the work with that many planted, and this would be a waste of time. you would be better off mining then jerking around at a farm that makes more wheat than you need ALREADY.
In no game should there ever be a point where you are so strong the game is no longer a challenge. What is the point of even playing?
Shouldn't challenge be more about surviving in new, unexplored areas, rather than having more problems surviving in the confines of ones house? also this doesn't make it any harder for end game people at all, and your failing to realize this so much its just SAD. For the 5th (?) time, this doesn't do SQUAT to make it harder for people with big wheat farms already
I do not understand how you do not understand how this doesn't effect people with full farms in any SUBSTANTIAL way. Nobody with FIELDS of wheat bone meals, they let it sit and harvest when they need. some people stop harvesting for weeks anyway, since they have so much.
you can still insta grow crops with bonemeal - you just have to click it 7 times now, instead of once.
The issue the people have with the nerf is not that you have to click more, it is that they have to collect more bones, it now takes two bones to grow just ONE plant to almost grown state (there is still one more state it would have to grow if you use two bones)
That requires over 6 BONES (not bonemeal) to get ONE piece of bread, before it was ONE bone for ONE bread.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
ragnarock200: awesome, are those things with the creeper faces pistons or furnaces
Snowey1994: There dispensers
2) Once you get a farm going, you will have a surplus of food -- starting with wheat, later meat and potatoes. That means, after the early game, food is not a problem regardless. At this point, you don't need bonemeal -- just go harvest your field and/or slaughter a few chickens or cows.
3) This nerf hits one place only -- it clobbers the early game, and especially beginning players. That is what I and others are complaining about.
4) What makes this not just upsetting, but offensive, is that this same nerf is not particularly hard on wood farming, and especially the famously overpowered jungle giants. You need two bonemeals instead of one to grow a tree? Fine, whatever. The jungle giant still gives you "wood as fast as you can chop".
5) And it's pointless, because after the early game, bone meal is purely a convenience. When you've got half a stack of beef and a stack of wood in your pocket, you can afford to plant and go off to do other things while it grows. It's just a little handier if you can whip up extra wood to fence a town, or fill out a new crop field, in one day instead of two or three. So, it's messing with the wrong half of that convenience, for no particular reason.
Why should this force people to fish? Make one thing completely useless just to force someone to try something? This sounds like a cell phone company tactic.
Fishing is for the most part, boring. And to nerf something just because some people AREN'T doing something is a horrible idea for a sandbox game. Let people do what they want. Fishing is more something I do when very bored, I don't rely on it for food unless I have NO other choice, since fishing is spotty, and can get tedious if your trying to feed yourself.
And this doesn't even fix it for being OP for guys with tons of bones. It only makes life rough for new players.
And for christ sake, can someone tell me why a NECESSITY being easy to get is OP?
What If healing was no longer a passive, every few second thing, and you needed to take a day of bed rest every time you got hurt? Sure it would be "neat" and would make passive healing more "balanced" but this would end up making people bang their heads on their desks.
Food is food. If you have too much, good for you, you wont starve. How is too much food OP at all?
I'd suggest: 3 Bonemeal + 1 Rotten Flesh -> Fertilizer
The player would be exchanging low quality "food" that cause food poisoning for higher quality food with a little more work.
Total garbage, also lies.
It is free to punch animals to death and eat their meat raw. You can do it without any tools or blocks, and it keeps you alive. Have fun trying to kill a skeleton with no weapons. Clearly one method is better for the beginning of the game....
Implying there's always animals at spawn ESPECIALLY on servers. Also people make stone swords in the first five minutes.
There is technically the potential for animals to be anywhere; animals still respawn despite being persistent. I'm just saying; there is easier food to get than bread.
This isn't really the case, As long as you get seeds (ANY biome, besides deserts and ocean) dirt, and wood, you can have wheat grown. Anything else is iffy, and not "easier" to get off hand. Animals are hit and miss, fish require spiders and water, and even THEN you may get no bites at all.
And nobody ever said bone meal on wheat was OP before now. And even if it was, this is food, not armor or weapons. Who cares if somebody who can't play minecraft can get a full stomach without knowing everything in the game, or if people can get a bit of wheat on the fly? Why the heck is this so bad? Is having a full stomach the new diamond armor and it allows you to fly or insta mine, something I didn't see in the new snapshots?
Whats the problem with this?...
and another question, which isn't necessarily at you : Why would a tree be EASIER to grow than wheat? I ask this cause its now better to make trees and see if there were any apples on them, since that would provide a better profit than EVER doing wheat with bone meal.
That sounds more better though tree should be two+ and crops should be one.
For me the issue really isn't about early game. It's more that it would be annoying having to manage with big farms(especially on SMP) because you would have to repeatedly go through rows of crops many more times with bonemeal now. I know that the current system isn't balance yet by what someone said about a twitter post so I know things will get better instead of sticking to 7 for every crop.
I think early game people should be able to survive even with a nerf in place though I'm not too familiar with SSP *shrugs*.
No clue, seems a bit off to me too. To your other points; I pose that I think that the idea of even having the hunger system is to add challenge, instant growth on wheat makes the need to actually grow food and hunt totally pointless.
So I say, if you wanna keep the bonemeal the original way, then remove beef, pork, chicken, potatoes, melons, and every other food.
So killing skeletons isn't a challenge that takes effort? -.-
Also your suggestion to remove all other food is downright stupid and childish. Just because there's a million options to GET food doesn't mean there's a million times MORE food in-game. It just means there's more potential sources. And as far as "instant" This is also dumb. Its only "instant" if you don't count the time collecting wood, stone, killing skeletons, and cutting grass. This IS work, and is by NO means instant. By your argument I could say that plopping down iron and a stick onto a table making an instant pick is op, cause "you should be patient, and forge every pick!".
Its only OP if you have tons of it, but that's just the nature of this game. Having tons of diamonds is OP too, but should we nerf diamonds?
Instant growth is over powered.
None of these are reasons that Bonemeal is OP.
Hey, you just admitted that there were no problems with Bonemeal for beginning players. After all, there were better methods, and it takes less risk than fighting multiple Skeletons to get a few pieces of Bread...
Though, for some reason, you continue to adamantly disagree that this nerf negatively affects them. Not sure why you are, but it does.
The hunger system is pointless in SSP, mostly pointless in SMP, and only really comes into play in custom maps, which I think is what the Mojang devs wanted, otherwise they wouldn't have made food as plentiful as it is (which is without Bonemeal).
Instant growth on Wheat does not make hunting or growing food pointless. On your first night, you'll likely kill many animals and there will be significantly less risk to that than killing a Skeleton, especially since the new buffs to them. In addition, when you've got enough food to last, Bonemeal is nothing but a conveniece. You're better off letting it grow on its own and leaving to go do things to better yourself, like mining/caving, instead of spamming Bonemeal over and over and over to get some more food, when you're already settled.
Why? Because Bread is the best food ever because of Bonemeal? Bullcrap. A ton of people don't even use Bonemeal to grow crops to eat because it's unimportant, and entirely a convenience, and not a vital thing when there are all sorts of other sources of food.
You would rather there be only Bread as a food source? That's just an annoying hindrance.
Instant growth is only overpowered if you're an ultra hardcore survival junkie that believes that surviving in Minecraft shouldn't be easy, and that the game should be based around surviving and not thriving.
Needless to say, if you would really like a challenge to your ability to survive in Minecraft, then there are tons of custom maps to fufill your want.
Since Vanilla Minecraft is not supposed to be about fighting for your life, however, I want to suggest you stop trying to make it about it.
I'm sorry that I have to point this out to your rocket scientist self, but Skeleton Spawners don't magically appear when you're first starting out, and that is the only time that Bonemeal is really used to grow food.
People with spawners are not affected by this nerf at all. People who do not have them yet are. This nerf literally forces players to build Skeleton spawners instead of allowing them to be optional.
Good design.
Not everyone has a spawner near them, you nincompoop, some don't have any AT ALL TO BEGIN WITH without structures. And saying I need to have an endless supply of bone meal makes the whole idea of a nerf pointless. Might as well say I need 20 bone meal for a wheat, cause this would be possible anyway, if taking a little longer.
I could MUCH MORE EASILY put in an argument that this very spawner idea was OP, since you can get hundreds of items in minutes while being afk and sitting on your butt, or going out for coffee and donuts. While using bone meal still takes effort, is a manual process, and DOES take a little bit of work, and requires the player to do the work of seeding, growing, and harvesting.
I'm starting to think the people who say wheat is OP are a bunch of trolls, especially since some say trees should take LESS bone meal than Wheat.
Also you saying I'm a bad player for this is outright insulting, to me and ANYONE who also agrees this nerf is bonkers. Food is a necessity, It shouldn't be too difficult to get. Its more like a small task, than a "project".
Its more "Op" than having bread easy to get. How does being able to do this give any advantage to one person over another? or adversely effects game-play? The only reason I've heard is it shouldn't be instant, but with the growth rate of plants I often find after planting a field, some have already hit stage 2. So bone meal is next to USELESS this way.
So tell me HOW this is over powered? What does this make so much worse than fishing, or apples, or whatever? It still takes time and work, so your ONLY complaint with validity is that it turns from seeds to wheat instantly. But this doesn't even get fixed this way since you can spam it for the same effect.
This nerf for wheat is a pain in the butt. Nothing else.
Where did you learn to read? I said it is easier to punch pigs to get food than it is to get bones as an argument against bones being a necessity for beginning players.
I totally agree that minecraft is about thriving, not surviving, but I full support any measure implemented into the game to increase the difficulty. Making it impossible to grow food in the blink of an eye is a good step forward. I don't think being strong enough to get bones regularly from skeletons means the player is automatically granted a free pass in growing food. I think as you become stronger the game should become harder.
You start a new world, use wood and stone tools, punch pigs and cows for food. The next step is cooking the food so you get more out of the food. After that you make better tools because you can mine for longer without starving. Now you have better weapons, and you can spend your iron on armor. Fight skeletons, get bonemeal. Sustainable farming is now possible.
That is where we reach this current fork in the road. There are two paths, to take. One takes you down the road of ease (the old bonemeal); now that you are looting the crap out of skeletons you have a near infinite supply of bonemeal, thus you have a near infinite supply of cake, animals, cookies, and bread. Eating, making books, and making huge carpeted floors with wool is no longer rewarding for the work. It is easy to do. Books means enchantments, you get stronger with no real cost. Easy.
Or you take the other path, where bonemeal isn't instant and the game remains somewhat challenging. You use bonemeal to slightly expedite the farming. The path to enchanting and cookies is more difficult than the first path, but more balanced.
In no game should there ever be a point where you are so strong the game is no longer a challenge. What is the point of even playing?
It seems like you are saying that bonemeal helps you make an enchanting table instantly.
Enchanting tables are crafted with the following ingredients:
4 obsidian
2 diamonds
1 book
The book is made of:
1 leather
3 paper (3 sugar cane each)
Not a single one of these can be collected faster using bonemeal!
I'm beginning to think that you might be trolling. Bonemeal was not so OP it broke the game! If it was, you (and not just you personally) would have complained about it BEFORE this snapshot.
You kill a pig, you've got food. Having instant crops isn't going to change the fact that you're already fed, and will have little impact when the alternative is doing other things while your crops grow by themselves.
If you want to talk difficulty then step away from calling Bonemeal OP because you can grow food after killing the toughest regular mob in the game. You'll still have a free pass at food without resorting to Bonemeal. There are pigs, cows, chickens, pumpkins... all sorts of things you can gather without so much as touching Bonemeal and they will keep you alive while your crops grow automatically. There are also Villages you can pillage for free food, and there's no difficulty in that at all.
Bonemeal doesn't make the game easier. It provides a convenience for things that are already easy to get and allows the player to optionally remove tediousness from the equation if he has Bones, which he can only get from risking his life in combat or through lucky spawner finds.
If you're so obsessed with difficulty and surviving becoming important factors in Minecraft, go play one of the many custom maps that makes surviving difficult, because surviving in Minecraft will never become hard in Vanilla, regardless of what happens to Bonemeal.
I don't know what rock you were living under before Bonemeal was nerfed, but sustainable farming is possible from the get-go as long as you have Seeds, a hoe, and a source of water. It takes a bit to get started, but you'll never run out and you do not need Bonemeal to get started. Bonemeal just expedites the process a bit, after you've toppled some Skeletons, which continue to be buffed and are the toughest regular mob in the game to fight and kill.
The way you make it sound is that farming is only possible with Bonemeal, that there are no other option available to the player, and that it's such a big fricking deal that the player gets some more food, when food is already the easiest, most plentiful resource in the game.
I'm sorry, but what?
You're not looting the crap out of Skeletons. Without a skeleton farm, Bonemeal slightly expedites the work required for the player to become stronger. Without a spawner, Bones are not so ridiculously common, unless you spend multiple nights out looking for Skeletons to build up enough Bonemeal to make enough Wheat to breed the Cows... which happens automatically anyway without forcing you to go look for Skeletons to build up to get Bonemeal for Wheat. So... in other words, the difference is risk versus time. You put much more risk into finding enough Bones/Bonemeal to grow enough Wheat to feed enough Cows to get enough Leather, while the other option is letting the Wheat grow naturally while you go gather the resources necessary to make an Enchanting Table in the first place... Which is 5 diamonds and 4 Obsidian. Hell, getting enough Wheat to feed the Cows is a non-issue either way. What really takes the longest amount of time is getting the Cows to breed enough so that you have enough Leather to make Books, and that applies regardless of how much you use Bonemeal because you can't use Bonemeal to expedite hormonal cycles.
Also, you'll have plenty of non-Bread food anyway by the time you've got a bunch of Bones, meaning an "infinite supply" of food is pretty meaningless. You can kill roaming Chickens, Cows, Pigs, gather and plant Pumpkins/Sugar Cane while farming Eggs to grow an infinite amount of Pumpkin Pies... or you can forgo the wait for Pumpkins and just breed chickens with Seeds and eat THEM because Chicken >>> Bread.
What is your point exactly? Are you continuing to daydream about the day when survival becomes important in Minecraft and ignoring that how Bonemeal isn't OP because of the plethora of choices available to the player, even if you take Bonemeal out of the equation entirely?
Or we can not go down this misguided path in the first place because there was never an issue with Bonemeal instantly growing crops in Minecraft. Survivalcraft, maybe, but not Minecraft.
In Minecraft, it is to build bigger and better structures. Or, to restart from scratch. Or do some Single Player challenges like the End of Crafting. Or, to join an SMP server and work with/fight against other players and keep the game interesting. Or to make a Youtube channel off of Minecraft.
I do not understand how you do not understand how this doesn't effect people with full farms in any SUBSTANTIAL way. Nobody with FIELDS of wheat bone meals, they let it sit and harvest when they need. some people stop harvesting for weeks anyway, since they have so much.
The issue the people have with the nerf is not that you have to click more, it is that they have to collect more bones, it now takes two bones to grow just ONE plant to almost grown state (there is still one more state it would have to grow if you use two bones)
That requires over 6 BONES (not bonemeal) to get ONE piece of bread, before it was ONE bone for ONE bread.
Snowey1994: There dispensers