On an observational note. The only crops that would need mass bonemealing would be wheat, carrots, and potatoes. I say stick to the original with those three or lower it to 2 bonemeal. For Pumpkin and Melon Stems I think 3 per stem seems fair as it is one time only and would require one whole bone.
If I could take all the rep points I have, and give them all to you, I would.
Who makes one block wheat/carrot/potato farms anyway lol. Also one block would be highly repetitive as opposed to bonemealing a big single row(takes effort!) one time and leaving it at that and harvesting it.
I'm going to bow out of this argument; I do not concede. no surprise. Your thought process is too rushed and your underlines are numerous. For example you say that wheat doesn't equal enchanting, however, the player needs cows to get leather to make books to make book shelves to improve their enchants. Wheat provides a means to breed cows, ergo wheat does lead to enchanting. This is like saying punching trees = beating the ender-dragon. It LEADS to it, but theres many steps in between that you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't have to, you can just hunt cows, but it does. Just answer me one thing and I'll leave your thread alone:
You call me wishy washy, but don't explain why. I say you are the one who is wishy washy for thinking diamonds are overpowered, but not insta-grow bonemeal. Explain what makes me wishy washy. You can't say it is because I never use bonemeal; I didn't say I never did, only that I tend not to. You said I was wishy washy for having an opinion that something was OP. The difference on me and you was I do not force this opinion on others. So are you saying I SHOULD force this on others, and make this forum a mess with rage threads on everything I don't like? or are you just refusing to see how me seeing diamonds OP when they are optional, AND can simply not be used (as both you and me do) is the same as your entire argument. The ONLY difference, is I am not insisting others need to have the diamond armor they have be retrospectively nerfed.
Answer me that, and then I'll leave this thread alone. Did done did it.
Assuming I am angry is a backhanded, and and weak insult. I'm not the one with the endless bolded text, all caps, and underlines. I think its fair to say most people in this thread are angry, not just you and me. Using bold and caps is a (Admitably failing tactic) To perhaps make you more likely to read the post. (Even though you at most just skim them, and dismiss stuff you don't like. compared to me, where I address every point.)
Who makes one block wheat/carrot/potato farms anyway lol. Also one block would be highly repetitive as opposed to bonemeal a big single row(takes effort!) one time and leaving it at that and harvesting it.
Exactly. This is "cheap" but weighing the benefit of this quote "abuse" to the detrimnets of the nerf are horribly imbalanced. The abuse lets an idiot keep a full stomach... the nerf makes 25% more players starve. (if only that)
I have never made a 1 block "farm" EVER. I have always used it to jump-start a wheat farm, giving me a bit of wheat to start out, and a few additional seeds. I still needed to get both the seeds and bones, and a hoe, and a safe spot for the plants. So bone meal is far from OP to me.
If I could take all the rep points I have, and give them all to you, I would.
Well that was very nice of you! Thanks, I appreciate the support.
Haha, the funny part is I was truly expecting someone to come along and 1/2 flame me for posting that. People can throw quite a temper tantrum about change even if it is perfectly logical and necessary.
There's "Survival Mode" and "Creative Mode". In Survival you have a hunger bar. In Creative you have no hunger bar. There's a big reason for this. It's called surviving. If you can just go and make instant food with bonemeal, you might as well have no hunger bar at all.
Make a wheat farm that's larger than 1 block so you can feed yourself.
I made this argument elsewhere, but survival doesn't neccesarily mean "combatting hunger" to everyone. It's definitely a feature in Survival mode, but it's one among many features and it is my contention that an alternative to starvation, like bonemeal actually working, is an important inclusion.
That probably sounded vague as hell, so I'll give you my example: I play Survival mode exclusively. I don't like Creative mode, because I don't want to be given everything. I want to own my creations by earning them, which means experiencing the thrills of mineral-hide-and-go-seek, mining them myself, placing them, and then deciding it looks ugly before tearing it all apart again.
Survival does not mean "feed yourself" to me. It's definitely a feature, and it's definitely a thing that I have to do. But I don't feel that sweeping generalizations about what it means to survive in Minecraft are fair to players such as myself, that consider bonemeal a means of skipping a part of the game we don't like (waiting for crops to grow so we can mine again) so we can get to the parts that we do (gathering resources and decorating!)
I'm not saying we should be allowed to not farm. If you don't eat, you die, that's definitely true. But I also don't feel like it's in the spirit of Minecraft to beat everyone over the head with it. It can be an integral part of the game without becoming the focus. Bonemeal allows Eatcraft to maintain that delicate balance, so that I'm allowed to have fun with all of you guys without turning on Peaceful mode to kill hunger and therefore eliminate ALL challenge from mobs, too.
Just my two cents. I totally respect your opinion, it just makes me a little sad.
redstonevet how would this sound:
2 cycles of bonemeal for wheat, potatoes, carrots while pumpkin & Melon stems get 3(takes a whole bone)? Also the 7 bonemeal nerf could be applied to dispensers instead? 2 cycles might actually sound fun too! Go to the left, then go to the right! *music plays*
If you can just go and make instant food with bonemeal, you might as well have no hunger bar at all.
In multiplayer, you either have bonemeal and seeds to make wheat, or spend some minutes trying to fend off people trying to get your wheat. Some of them have full diamond and are simply trying to kill you. Some want your wheat. I actually need wheat, but I have to protect it in SMP. I need wheat to breed my cows to kill a cow without killing the whole cow population. Bone meal increases precious time that we could use to do other things, such as mining or some other random thing. We want FUN, not realism. I understand that this isn't really 'realistic', because in real life, wheat takes like months to grow, but then again, why do we play games? To have another boring simulation of life? NO. To have FUN. Just saying, this nerf takes away time and fun from us, and kinda annoys us. If you're the 5% that plays singleplayer, DON'T USE IT. It's optional! Just don't ruin it for the rest of us.
If I made any mistakes, it's because I'm thinking about something else.
This signature has absolutely no point at all. And then it has a point to inform you that it has no point, but it has no point because it really doesn't have a point, but it has a point because it tells you it has no point... and ah, screw this.
In multiplayer, you either have bonemeal and seeds to make wheat, or spend some minutes trying to fend off people trying to get your wheat. Some of them have full diamond and are simply trying to kill you. Some want your wheat. I actually need wheat, but I have to protect it in SMP. I need wheat to breed my cows to kill a cow without killing the whole cow population. Bone meal increases precious time that we could use to do other things, such as mining or some other random thing. We want FUN, not realism. I understand that this isn't really 'realistic', because in real life, wheat takes like months to grow, but then again, why do we play games? To have another boring simulation of life? NO. To have FUN. Just saying, this nerf takes away time and fun from us, and kinda annoys us. If you're the 5% that plays singleplayer, DON'T USE IT. It's optional! Just don't ruin it for the rest of us.
If I made any mistakes, it's because I'm thinking about something else.
Ew, PvP/Griefing/Raiding servers are tooo mainstream lolAlso while I do despise SSP there are a lot of people that play it.
redstonevet how would this sound:
2 cycles of bonemeal for wheat, potatoes, carrots while pumpkin & Melon stems get 3(takes a whole bone)? Also the 7 bonemeal nerf could be applied to dispensers instead? 2 cycles might actually sound fun too! Go to the left, then go to the right! *music plays*
My opinion is that bonemeal needed to be nerfed and I will let the developers decide what would be appropriate. I like the new content and changes the developer have been making. They are taking Minecraft in a direction that I am happy with, so I will let them decide.
redstonevet how would this sound:
2 cycles of bonemeal for wheat, potatoes, carrots while pumpkin & Melon stems get 3(takes a whole bone)? Also the 7 bonemeal nerf could be applied to dispensers instead? 2 cycles might actually sound fun too! Go to the left, then go to the right! *music plays*
You know what they say. It takes two to tango ;D and three to.... they didn't say what three does...
It does mean survival in a literal sense and to the developers, otherwise they would not have added the hunger bar and food system.
Correct.
But while short and concise, your argument is flawed because they added all of the other things I like to do, as well.
Therefore, it is not logically sound to conclude that the addition of hunger and food is a divine commandment from the creators that it is the only acceptable way to play.I currently have the ability to use Survival mode for the things I like, and not stress about what I'm going to eat all of the time.
Or, perhaps more clearly, I'll use your exact same argument in reverse:
But while short and concise, your argument is flawed because they added all of the other things I like to do, as well.
So what? There are many aspects to survival. I know this. Your point is flawed because you are intentionally excluding one of the main aspects of survival that has been implement into the game.
You cant exclude feeding yourself from survival. My point is completely valid.
I agree, now you just have to put some work towards your crops now
Excuse me?
Let me just say this. On some SMP servers there are public farms or an economy so no one dies of hunger these days.(this sentence was unrelated to the quoted thingy)
--- How does one upload a minecraft screenshot? I wanna show some things >
But that is the only point upon which we agree, because my point is that while feeding yourself is a single facet of survival, it isn't the only one and therefore doesn't need to be stressful. Or, again, to slightly reword your position: Survival isn't exclusively feeding yourself.
I hope my counterpoints aren't reaching you with any hostility, as I'm not communicating any intentionally. I realize the internet robs text of emotion. But this is, I think, the most clear division between our opinions. <3
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!
But that is the only point upon which we agree, because my point is that while feeding yourself is a single facet of survival, it isn't the only one and therefore doesn't need to be stressful. Or, again, to slightly reword your position: Survival isn't exclusively feeding yourself.
However, what someone considers stressful is completely based on personal opinion.
I understand that you aren't satisfied with the importance that has been placed on the hunger/food system, but because you consider it to be stressful does not mean that it is illegitimate. Others may not consider it stressful at all.
I hope my counterpoints aren't reaching you with any hostility, as I'm not communicating any intentionally. I realize the internet robs text of emotion. But this is, I think, the most clear division between our opinions. <3
In multiplayer, you either have bonemeal and seeds to make wheat, or spend some minutes trying to fend off people trying to get your wheat. Some of them have full diamond and are simply trying to kill you. Some want your wheat. I actually need wheat, but I have to protect it in SMP. I need wheat to breed my cows to kill a cow without killing the whole cow population. Bone meal increases precious time that we could use to do other things, such as mining or some other random thing. We want FUN, not realism. I understand that this isn't really 'realistic', because in real life, wheat takes like months to grow, but then again, why do we play games? To have another boring simulation of life? NO. To have FUN. Just saying, this nerf takes away time and fun from us, and kinda annoys us. If you're the 5% that plays singleplayer, DON'T USE IT. It's optional! Just don't ruin it for the rest of us.
If I made any mistakes, it's because I'm thinking about something else.
Careful, I've been using this argument along with others this whole time, and the guys won't hear it =P
However, what someone considers stressful is completely based on personal opinion.
I understand that you aren't satisfied with the importance that has been placed on the hunger/food system, but because you consider it to be stressful does not mean that it is illegitimate. Others may not consider it stressful at all.
We're good
The MAIN problem with this : Which is more of a problem? Plays being stressed over something they didn't ask for and cannot ignore, or players getting something nerfed that they didn't use in the first place (Most who support the nerf admit to this) It does nothing to change the experience of THESE supporters, yet it makes the game worse for those who don't support it.
If you do not wish to have wheat so easily, challenge yourself by not doing it (Like these guys have been doing to begin with.) But having it officially nerfed makes no difference to the supporters (Again, most of them don't touch it to begin with) And makes the first few days much darker for new players.
TL;DR Negatively effects those who use bone meal, doesn't effect those who don't, and tend to support it.
Also cecil. That post was rude. AND, I cannot help but noticed you ignored the thread 3 people suggested you look at, yet responded to a comment about tea...
Also cecil. That post was rude. AND, I cannot help but noticed you ignored the thread 3 people suggested you look at, yet responded to a comment about tea...
Sorry to disappoint, but I really don't feel like either of us is going to convince the other one. So I'm done with debating it; we'll see the outcome on thursday I guess. I imagine the nerf will stand, but will drop from seven bonemeal to three or four. Mojang doesn't often and easily rescind their changes. Looks like there is some support for the nerf in this thread after all.
On a side note, interestingly enough I got an informal infraction warning for commenting about the tea.......
Who makes one block wheat/carrot/potato farms anyway lol. Also one block would be highly repetitive as opposed to bonemealing a big single row(takes effort!) one time and leaving it at that and harvesting it.
You call me wishy washy, but don't explain why. I say you are the one who is wishy washy for thinking diamonds are overpowered, but not insta-grow bonemeal. Explain what makes me wishy washy. You can't say it is because I never use bonemeal; I didn't say I never did, only that I tend not to. You said I was wishy washy for having an opinion that something was OP. The difference on me and you was I do not force this opinion on others. So are you saying I SHOULD force this on others, and make this forum a mess with rage threads on everything I don't like? or are you just refusing to see how me seeing diamonds OP when they are optional, AND can simply not be used (as both you and me do) is the same as your entire argument. The ONLY difference, is I am not insisting others need to have the diamond armor they have be retrospectively nerfed.
Answer me that, and then I'll leave this thread alone. Did done did it.
Assuming I am angry is a backhanded, and and weak insult. I'm not the one with the endless bolded text, all caps, and underlines. I think its fair to say most people in this thread are angry, not just you and me. Using bold and caps is a (Admitably failing tactic) To perhaps make you more likely to read the post. (Even though you at most just skim them, and dismiss stuff you don't like. compared to me, where I address every point.)
Exactly. This is "cheap" but weighing the benefit of this quote "abuse" to the detrimnets of the nerf are horribly imbalanced. The abuse lets an idiot keep a full stomach... the nerf makes 25% more players starve. (if only that)
I have never made a 1 block "farm" EVER. I have always used it to jump-start a wheat farm, giving me a bit of wheat to start out, and a few additional seeds. I still needed to get both the seeds and bones, and a hoe, and a safe spot for the plants. So bone meal is far from OP to me.
Well that was very nice of you! Thanks, I appreciate the support.
Haha, the funny part is I was truly expecting someone to come along and 1/2 flame me for posting that. People can throw quite a temper tantrum about change even if it is perfectly logical and necessary.
I made this argument elsewhere, but survival doesn't neccesarily mean "combatting hunger" to everyone. It's definitely a feature in Survival mode, but it's one among many features and it is my contention that an alternative to starvation, like bonemeal actually working, is an important inclusion.
That probably sounded vague as hell, so I'll give you my example: I play Survival mode exclusively. I don't like Creative mode, because I don't want to be given everything. I want to own my creations by earning them, which means experiencing the thrills of mineral-hide-and-go-seek, mining them myself, placing them, and then deciding it looks ugly before tearing it all apart again.
Survival does not mean "feed yourself" to me. It's definitely a feature, and it's definitely a thing that I have to do. But I don't feel that sweeping generalizations about what it means to survive in Minecraft are fair to players such as myself, that consider bonemeal a means of skipping a part of the game we don't like (waiting for crops to grow so we can mine again) so we can get to the parts that we do (gathering resources and decorating!)
I'm not saying we should be allowed to not farm. If you don't eat, you die, that's definitely true. But I also don't feel like it's in the spirit of Minecraft to beat everyone over the head with it. It can be an integral part of the game without becoming the focus. Bonemeal allows Eatcraft to maintain that delicate balance, so that I'm allowed to have fun with all of you guys without turning on Peaceful mode to kill hunger and therefore eliminate ALL challenge from mobs, too.
Just my two cents. I totally respect your opinion, it just makes me a little sad.
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!
2 cycles of bonemeal for wheat, potatoes, carrots while pumpkin & Melon stems get 3(takes a whole bone)? Also the 7 bonemeal nerf could be applied to dispensers instead? 2 cycles might actually sound fun too! Go to the left, then go to the right! *music plays*
If I made any mistakes, it's because I'm thinking about something else.
It does mean survival in a literal sense and to the developers, otherwise they would not have added the hunger bar and food system.
That's survival.
Ew, PvP/Griefing/Raiding servers are tooo mainstream lolAlso while I do despise SSP there are a lot of people that play it.
My opinion is that bonemeal needed to be nerfed and I will let the developers decide what would be appropriate. I like the new content and changes the developer have been making. They are taking Minecraft in a direction that I am happy with, so I will let them decide.
You know what they say. It takes two to tango ;D and three to.... they didn't say what three does...
Correct.
But while short and concise, your argument is flawed because they added all of the other things I like to do, as well.
Therefore, it is not logically sound to conclude that the addition of hunger and food is a divine commandment from the creators that it is the only acceptable way to play.I currently have the ability to use Survival mode for the things I like, and not stress about what I'm going to eat all of the time.
Or, perhaps more clearly, I'll use your exact same argument in reverse:
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!
So what? There are many aspects to survival. I know this. Your point is flawed because you are intentionally excluding one of the main aspects of survival that has been implement into the game.
You cant exclude feeding yourself from survival. My point is completely valid.
Excuse me?
Let me just say this. On some SMP servers there are public farms or an economy so no one dies of hunger these days.(this sentence was unrelated to the quoted thingy)
--- How does one upload a minecraft screenshot? I wanna show some things >
But that is the only point upon which we agree, because my point is that while feeding yourself is a single facet of survival, it isn't the only one and therefore doesn't need to be stressful. Or, again, to slightly reword your position:
Survival isn't exclusively feeding yourself.
I hope my counterpoints aren't reaching you with any hostility, as I'm not communicating any intentionally. I realize the internet robs text of emotion. But this is, I think, the most clear division between our opinions. <3
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!
However, what someone considers stressful is completely based on personal opinion.
I understand that you aren't satisfied with the importance that has been placed on the hunger/food system, but because you consider it to be stressful does not mean that it is illegitimate. Others may not consider it stressful at all.
We're good
Then I am satisfied. <3
High five, and good game!
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!
Careful, I've been using this argument along with others this whole time, and the guys won't hear it =P
The MAIN problem with this : Which is more of a problem? Plays being stressed over something they didn't ask for and cannot ignore, or players getting something nerfed that they didn't use in the first place (Most who support the nerf admit to this) It does nothing to change the experience of THESE supporters, yet it makes the game worse for those who don't support it.
If you do not wish to have wheat so easily, challenge yourself by not doing it (Like these guys have been doing to begin with.) But having it officially nerfed makes no difference to the supporters (Again, most of them don't touch it to begin with) And makes the first few days much darker for new players.
TL;DR Negatively effects those who use bone meal, doesn't effect those who don't, and tend to support it.
Also cecil. That post was rude. AND, I cannot help but noticed you ignored the thread 3 people suggested you look at, yet responded to a comment about tea...
Sorry to disappoint, but I really don't feel like either of us is going to convince the other one. So I'm done with debating it; we'll see the outcome on thursday I guess. I imagine the nerf will stand, but will drop from seven bonemeal to three or four. Mojang doesn't often and easily rescind their changes. Looks like there is some support for the nerf in this thread after all.
On a side note, interestingly enough I got an informal infraction warning for commenting about the tea.......