Agree. If you have a skeleton farm, this is not going to change much since you will already have orders of magnitude more bones than you'll ever use.
If you don't, this makes wasting bonemeal on crops almost unthinkable.
Agree with suggestions to limit the number of bonemeal you get from one bone; or make bonemeal advance crop growth by 2 stages instead of just one.
@ fishing: I like this but many people will not. Fishing requires patience, vigilance, and paying attention to your surroundings while you're focusing on the fish. These cognitive traits aren't real strong in many of the Minecraft players I see online.
Not only that, but fishing is time consuming and unreliable.
Read most of the arguments & I agree with most points
> Bonemeal is Overpowered
> Bonemeal works differently depending on level
> Only 1 bonemeal per bone
> Use on different items causes that item to grow at different rates 3 to grow a tree,2 stages/Bonemeal for wheat etc
I think though that since it's nerfed SO much - they should come up with another use for it
OK we can use it to grow stuff, 'dye' sheep white - but what else could you use Bones for ??
Perhaps craft it with charcoal/coal to give slightly longer burning time perhaps ??
Use in a potion perhaps - give 'protection' boost ??
I suspect a balance needs to be sorted out, & this is just a 'starting block' for them to see how the community reacts & they may change it in next snapshot etc if too many complain
Once you find a skeleton spawner and repurpose it into a grinder you'll have more bones than you know what to do with, which made food stupidly easy to make. However, seven bone-meal to raise a single crop block to full size is a bit excessive. Three or four would probably be optimal.
Would also be neat if dispensers applied bonemeal within a radius rather than directly infront of its output.
Not only that, but fishing is time consuming and unreliable.
Fishing Video:
Theoretically 1 fish every 25 seconds.
Also, if it's raining and you're fishing outside [ie; no blocks above the water], you'd theoretically get 1 fish every 15 seconds.
Now which method of gathering food takes more time?
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
3/10/2012
Posts:
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Minecraft:
Maladus
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I myself was disappointed at first but look, was there ever farming in MC? I don't think so, bonemeal took away the waiting for your crops to grow part of farming. Now bonemeal has a proper use; to make the crop grow faster.
Rain is unreliable..... -.- and this is assuming we have found the strings / large body of water for it.
And really, having it go up one stage doesn't fix anything. If you have huge amounts of it you can still instantly get them, it only sucks for new settlers trying not to starve to death. People say this fixes instant trees, but does it? 1 extra click? does that fix ANYTHING?...Don't get me wrong I love dinnerbone's work but this could of been implemented better like I posted above.
Some sort of way to increase growth rate but NOT enable full on instant items. Because right now its a bit ridiculous, to the point that you might as well store and not use bone meal unless you have tons of it. Unless it was for trees, but the main complaint was for food.
We have to understand the purpose of bonemeal. I think the reason why it was nerfed was because it was so damn everywhere. Once you're deep into the world, you have so many bonemeal. But, for starting a new world, bonemeal is very useful. There needs to be a balance.
(I didn't read all of the posts btw, so I could be repeating what someone has already said.)
I can understand why they nerfed it, but it has been nerfed too much; 21 bonemeal for 3 bread VS 2 bonemeal for a large tree?
I don't use bonemeal that often (I have a mega farm that gives me a full inventory of wheat when I harvest it all), but I do see it's usefulness (e.g. getting some food in a pinch).
Maybe instead, it should increases the speed of wheat growth (like fertilizer) . Or alternatively, it increases one stage of growth for a random number of wheat instead of one (like 2-4 wheats.)
I myself was disappointed at first but look, was there ever farming in MC? I don't think so, bonemeal took away the waiting for your crops to grow part of farming. Now bonemeal has a proper use; to make the crop grow faster.
Was there ever farming? Duh?
The use of Bonemeal on crops drops low once you realize you have enough food to last, and can afford to let crops grow on their own without risking starvation.
I am more or less indifferent to this change. Also I have no doubt there will be additional tweaks done to it based on this sort of feedback.
I am of the mind that this was added to encourage the new functions of the dispenser to be used. vast storage chests of bonemeal, storage/hopper carts, hoppers, and dispensers can be leveraged to create some cool automatic farms- button triggers a few pulses which use bonemeal on your plants, you harvest, plant, repeat. Such a construction would not be worth the effort to build with the old one to one ratio.
When Bone-Meal was first added, there was quite a bit of noise about how it made actual farming redundant. With the recent changes to Skeletons, dispensers, and bone meal, I think there is more balance.
Those arguing that this makes it more difficult to survive in a hardcore world with a less than ideal spawn evidently are unaware of the meaning of the term "hardcore"... or even "hard", for that matter.
There are still ways to survive. Skeletons are more dangerous which means attacking them is far more difficult. So you either kill zombies for their flesh or kill spiders for their string, for the purpose of making a fishing rod or a bow- of course if you are more daring you can also take on skeletons.
of course, since deserts don't spawn with tall grass, I'm not sure how spawning in a desert is really any different now- skeleton changes aside.
On an unrelated note regarding nerfs/buffs, I believe- either in this update or a recent one- the possible enchantments monsters receive has been changed. A skeleton I recently killed with full, enchanted leather armour dropped both his helmet and his chestplate. The chestplate had Protection I and Thorns I, and the helmet had Protection II.
But don't you guys think Bonemeal was nerfed too much that it's now underpowered? I think it is much better to keep the old ways and let it be a 1:1 ratio for bones for bonemeal instead of 1:3.
I like where they are going with the bonemeal nerf but I don't think they went about implementing it the right way. Crops like the melon and pumpkin aren't to terribly affected by this but it is a little ridiculous that you can grow a tree for 1/3 of what it takes to grow a single crop of wheat.
Overall, I like where this brings pumpkins, melons, and partially trees but the wheat aspects needs to be looked at again.
CaptainSparklez pointed out that it takes 21 bonemeal to make a piece of bread. I think that it should be 2-3 to grow a crop and 5-7 to grow a tree
Yeah. People complained about trees, from the sound of it. not wheat. Food is ESSENTIAL in minecraft. From health regen, running, its ESSENTIAL for even the most basic operations. Saying someone having an excess amount of food is over powered is like saying someone in a first person shooter having over 200 frames per second is over powered. Sure it might be a bit excessive, but how is it a problem? And why would this need a nerf? For most of use food is the main thing when starting a new world to tackle, and once its delt with a bit, life becomes easier, and the player can deal with normal things, you know, like mining.
And yeah, there IS fishing, but it consumes time FAR more time than a wood hoe, seeds, bone meal, more seeds, repeat. Not only can you get a bite to eat quickly this way with 3 wheat but it jump starts a farm from the extra seeds from a harvest.
I think they should swap the tree / plant growth, 2 for plants, 7 for trees. Trees are what I've seen people complain about, and food is what people complain is too hard now... ...why not?
To me, the wheat ideal is indeed unfair badly. I mean its bad enough to take 3 bonemeal to get 1 bread, which in turn if you think that could be 1 or 2 or 3 skeleton kills to just get that bone to make that 3 bonemeal.
However now that is a joke.
Trees, that I do like. I have nothing against the tree thing really as its fair enough and in the end a tree farm does not need bonemeal anyway unless you are making a tree home or something.
I've brought it back. Still costs 7 bonemeal, but instant again! ~0.2 Seconds per wheat. Could be set up in an enviroment where a redstone light could turn off after it's grown quite simply actually, probably will make that soon. working on something atm.
[video][/video]
Bonemeal as it is (instant growth with one single bonemeal) is bad. Growing things isntantly isn't neat, it makes everything too fast, while planting stuff should be planification for the future, not instant reward. I'm positive with the fact they nerf it, but think it's donne horribly.
Bonemeal should fertilize the ground. Could be shown as small white dots. Plants "fertilized" should grow much, much faster, but not instantly. Bonemeal should help you a lot, not be a way to isntantly get the crops.
Parasites inside ones eye are neat, this does not mean they are pleasant or fun. Essentially this feature change for WHEAT makes life harder on those without a working farm yet (or a new world) only so the guys in their big estates can bone meal wheat when bored of everything else....Sure it was a little weird, but 21 meal to make a single piece of bread is just nuts. Its not worth it using it on wheat as all, since your better off hunting zombies / animals for food than even touching bones, or, if you have a big farm, you wont use them anyway to begin with because with a big enough wheat patch you don't need a boost at all. I don't see who this is benefiting at all, besides you calling it "neat".
I've brought it back. Still costs 7 bonemeal, but instant again! ~0.2 Seconds per wheat. Could be set up in an enviroment where a redstone light could turn off after it's grown quite simply actually, probably will make that soon. working on something atm.
[media][media][/media[/media]]
Problem isn't with speed. Problem is with fresh spawns where bone meal is a godsend, giving a starving and dying adventure the energy to survive the first night, if they can brave a tussle with a skeleton. The problem is that is no longer worth using at all for survival on the first few days, and past that, you should have enough meat / wheat planted by then that this "booster" is no longer needed.
Honestly, who has a problem, BESIDES aesthetics, with bone meal on wheat?
> Bonemeal is Overpowered
> Bonemeal works differently depending on level
> Only 1 bonemeal per bone
> Use on different items causes that item to grow at different rates 3 to grow a tree,2 stages/Bonemeal for wheat etc
I think though that since it's nerfed SO much - they should come up with another use for it
OK we can use it to grow stuff, 'dye' sheep white - but what else could you use Bones for ??
Perhaps craft it with charcoal/coal to give slightly longer burning time perhaps ??
Use in a potion perhaps - give 'protection' boost ??
I suspect a balance needs to be sorted out, & this is just a 'starting block' for them to see how the community reacts & they may change it in next snapshot etc if too many complain
Would also be neat if dispensers applied bonemeal within a radius rather than directly infront of its output.
Fishing Video: Theoretically 1 fish every 25 seconds.
Also, if it's raining and you're fishing outside [ie; no blocks above the water], you'd theoretically get 1 fish every 15 seconds.
Now which method of gathering food takes more time?
My thoughts on this update:
And really, having it go up one stage doesn't fix anything. If you have huge amounts of it you can still instantly get them, it only sucks for new settlers trying not to starve to death. People say this fixes instant trees, but does it? 1 extra click? does that fix ANYTHING?...Don't get me wrong I love dinnerbone's work but this could of been implemented better like I posted above.
Some sort of way to increase growth rate but NOT enable full on instant items. Because right now its a bit ridiculous, to the point that you might as well store and not use bone meal unless you have tons of it. Unless it was for trees, but the main complaint was for food.
That idea of one bonemeal per bone was perfect.
[represent]
I can understand why they nerfed it, but it has been nerfed too much; 21 bonemeal for 3 bread VS 2 bonemeal for a large tree?
I don't use bonemeal that often (I have a mega farm that gives me a full inventory of wheat when I harvest it all), but I do see it's usefulness (e.g. getting some food in a pinch).
Maybe instead, it should increases the speed of wheat growth (like fertilizer) . Or alternatively, it increases one stage of growth for a random number of wheat instead of one (like 2-4 wheats.)
The use of Bonemeal on crops drops low once you realize you have enough food to last, and can afford to let crops grow on their own without risking starvation.
I am of the mind that this was added to encourage the new functions of the dispenser to be used. vast storage chests of bonemeal, storage/hopper carts, hoppers, and dispensers can be leveraged to create some cool automatic farms- button triggers a few pulses which use bonemeal on your plants, you harvest, plant, repeat. Such a construction would not be worth the effort to build with the old one to one ratio.
When Bone-Meal was first added, there was quite a bit of noise about how it made actual farming redundant. With the recent changes to Skeletons, dispensers, and bone meal, I think there is more balance.
Those arguing that this makes it more difficult to survive in a hardcore world with a less than ideal spawn evidently are unaware of the meaning of the term "hardcore"... or even "hard", for that matter.
There are still ways to survive. Skeletons are more dangerous which means attacking them is far more difficult. So you either kill zombies for their flesh or kill spiders for their string, for the purpose of making a fishing rod or a bow- of course if you are more daring you can also take on skeletons.
of course, since deserts don't spawn with tall grass, I'm not sure how spawning in a desert is really any different now- skeleton changes aside.
On an unrelated note regarding nerfs/buffs, I believe- either in this update or a recent one- the possible enchantments monsters receive has been changed. A skeleton I recently killed with full, enchanted leather armour dropped both his helmet and his chestplate. The chestplate had Protection I and Thorns I, and the helmet had Protection II.
Overall, I like where this brings pumpkins, melons, and partially trees but the wheat aspects needs to be looked at again.
And yeah, there IS fishing, but it consumes time FAR more time than a wood hoe, seeds, bone meal, more seeds, repeat. Not only can you get a bite to eat quickly this way with 3 wheat but it jump starts a farm from the extra seeds from a harvest.
I think they should swap the tree / plant growth, 2 for plants, 7 for trees. Trees are what I've seen people complain about, and food is what people complain is too hard now... ...why not?
However now that is a joke.
Trees, that I do like. I have nothing against the tree thing really as its fair enough and in the end a tree farm does not need bonemeal anyway unless you are making a tree home or something.
[video][/video]
Parasites inside ones eye are neat, this does not mean they are pleasant or fun. Essentially this feature change for WHEAT makes life harder on those without a working farm yet (or a new world) only so the guys in their big estates can bone meal wheat when bored of everything else....Sure it was a little weird, but 21 meal to make a single piece of bread is just nuts. Its not worth it using it on wheat as all, since your better off hunting zombies / animals for food than even touching bones, or, if you have a big farm, you wont use them anyway to begin with because with a big enough wheat patch you don't need a boost at all. I don't see who this is benefiting at all, besides you calling it "neat".
Problem isn't with speed. Problem is with fresh spawns where bone meal is a godsend, giving a starving and dying adventure the energy to survive the first night, if they can brave a tussle with a skeleton. The problem is that is no longer worth using at all for survival on the first few days, and past that, you should have enough meat / wheat planted by then that this "booster" is no longer needed.
Honestly, who has a problem, BESIDES aesthetics, with bone meal on wheat?