I will start by pointing out something that I find is at the start of most rant threads: "I like minechaft except for such and such a thing" I will say something like this, however, I will say that a little diferently: "I like Minecraft and I believe that this change will make it better" this says that although I don't really like the witches, I will continue to play and enjoy Minecraft even if the change that I will suggest in this thread isn't implimented, but, I still think that this change would be for the better.
I made this thread because of the various things that I have been noting about the witch, I myself think that it is ok, but I think that it could be easily made better, I have also noticed that a lot of other people have expressed dislike or disapointment that this new ranged mob is a witch, this thread is devoted to unpacking those reasons, and seeing if they are legitimate reasons to dislike the witch, I intead to present each of these points with both sides of the argument, if you feel that you could add something to any of the arguments, feel free to post it, I will try to edit it into this post. I will also say that I quote a lot of people, so if you feel that I took something that you said totally out of context to manipulate what you said to say something you didn't, then you may post and complain, I will at the very least remove your name from that quote, and (if it isn't really central to a point that is being made) may remove it all together. I will also say that I put a lot of my own opinion in this, so please try to remember, this is just my opinion.
We must keep this in mind, as sometimes the only reason that we dislike something is because it is new, but that isn't really a logical reason as we will get used to it if/when it gets added.
I will also add this:
Meh. I'm kind of 50/50 on Witches right now. Until we get some gameplay or at least a picture of one i'm
not making any stands, but they DO sound kind of generic and cheesy. Then again, we almost know
nothing about them except that they have magic noses and look like villagers. Lets just hope we get
another cool mob to balance it out, like a mummy or a ghost or something.
I quote this to say that we shouldn't judge them to hard, as we don't know that much about them... Yet, but several things are already in the witch that people don't like, so lets go into them:
1) It doesn't really seem to fit in Minecraft.
Witches do fit the "makes absolutely no frickin' sense" theme of Minecraft. But I would rather cling to the
idea that the game really should have a theme that actually hangs together at least a little bit.
We all know that Minecraft isn't really the best theamed in the first place (we have things like enchanting with TNT, which makes almost no sense) but we all know that aside from a few things Minecraft tends to have a basic theme runing through it, and I think that most of us like it this way, but the real question is; do the witch mobs fit with the other mobs that we already have?
Okay, lets analyze something here. What do Witches, Skeletons, Zombies, Wither Skeletons, Wither
bosses, and Zombie Pigmen have in common? They're all paranormal, magical, threatening, and tied to
'black magics'.
What do they not have in common? Witches aren't undead, which is a key feature of the others listed.
On the other hand, witches control dark magic, and add a plausible explanation for why there are undead
minions running around.
Anyone care to refute this position of witches validate the existence of the undead?
As we can see here, there are some things which some of the other mobs have in common that the witch doesn't have, but that in and of itself doesn't make it not fit. For example; we have creapers, endermen, and spiders, none of which are undead, so we can't say that witches don't fit based on that alone. This post also brings out the fact that witches could be a reason why the other mobs are here, I personally don't think that it is good to have back story for Minecraft, as that limits the imagionation as to what happened to cause this apocalips, but that is just my opinion.
It can also be said that they don't fit because of this:
It's a terrible idea[To add witches], people say that we have Creepers, Skeletons, Zombie Pigmen, Zombies, Spiders, etc.
and they can't see how Witches don't fit in, well how can't you see? All the hostile mobs in Minecraft are
MONSTERS (Except for Spiders and Wolves but Wolves are neutral first), Witches aren't monsters, and
making them look like Villagers only makes it worse, however that's just my opinion.
Hopefully all of us know that all of the enimys don't really exist in real life, however, people are out there that would call themseves witches (even if they don't fit the Minecraft ones at all) so this makes the witch seem out of the theme
Witches are [Halloween-related], for the most part. It really dates
the mob and makes Minecraft really campy. I guess Dinnerbone could do something completely different
like L4D, but why even call it a witch at that point?
A good portion of us will, when someone says 'witch' will think of something halloween realated, I myself think of the lawn ordament of a witch splatered against a tree, so at least some of us realate witches to holloween, wereas the only other mobs that I would relate to it would be the spiders and the skelitons, so it now stands out a little bit more from the other mobs, and this opinion is not just mine;
Will this either be a Halloween thing or a dimension thing?
It would just seem a bit weird to be playing at say Christmas and being attacked by witches?
When I was a kid, many moons ago and still to this day when I go Halloween shopping for my kids,
grandkids, I see Witch costumes a lot, so to say Witches aren't halloween-y isn't actually accurate. They
are very abundant this time of year, even as decorations.
I now quote something that really brings this out (In my opinion)
Here is proof.
What do you think of when you hear zombies? Probably undead people who like brains. Fantasy
games/movies...
What do you think of when you hear skeletons? Probably a dead person, or undead. Fantasy
games/movies...
What do you think of when you hear monster? Probably any type of evil/scary creature. Fantasy
games/movies...
What do you think of when you hear dragon? Probably a fire breathing beast. Fantasy games/movies
What do all these have in common? They're all used in most fantasy games/movies.
Now what do you think of when you hear Witches? Halloween.
See, it doesn't fit.
The validity of this all depends on weather you consider Minecraft Halloween themed or undead/monster apocalypse themed, I personally don't think of halloween at all when I play, so I would say that I consider it undead/monster apocalypse themed:
I guess everyone has there definition of this game because its so open which is what makes it so fantastic.
To me they are a bad idea because I see MC as a Zombie Apoc Sandbox, Which without personally
created mods would not give a true "Zombies have taken over" feel and we all know witches are not apart
of the Zombie Apoc
I will note though, that the other monsters in Minecraft (endermen, creepers) don't fit this theme either. Now we will also look at this:
But this is a halloween update. Whats next? A christmas update? Added Santa Claus and Jesus
mob. Santa claus is hostile. Added raindeer or whatever the heck santa rides. Raindeer have huge red
noses on their frikken face.
I mean seriously, just because its halloween doesn't mean there should be a whole bunch of halloween
stuff added permanently...
And I'm almost sure in December they'll add raindeers or whatever they are.
And to everyone saying endermen, creepers, withers, and enderdragon are all halloween. No.
As you can see the idea of making a Halloween update that adds a bunch of Halloweenish thing seems like a bad idea, if, in fact the witches are Halloweenish. Now we will also look at the other side of this:
About the only thing in modern Halloween that you could say is specific to Halloween are jack-o-lanterns,
which the game has already. Zombies, Witches, Ghosts, Skeletons, and Spiders are all extremely common
in Halloween themes. And no, Witches are not more specific to Halloween than any of the others I've
mentioned.
So now we look at the fact that Minecraft allready has a bunch of Halloween themed things in it allready, however, the witches still come short in a undead/monster apocalypse, if that is what you classify Minecraft as, so really, arguing that they are Halloween related all depends on weather you think the game is Halloween themed already.
I fail to see how a witch isn't "Minecraft-esque." Look at most of the monsters we have now, zombies,
skeletons, spiders, zombie pigmen, and the sorts.. They're all haunting and halloween like. Adding a witch
only contributes to that theme. And then you factor in the enchanting and brewing part of the game,
welcome to what magic is.
This says much of the same stuff, but it adds that enchanting and brewing help to make the witch seem more Minecrafty
Another thing about them is that they are rather stereotypical:
I have no particular opinion on the matter. It seems random and dumb, but to be honest, looking back, if
I'd been here for most of the new stuff I would have thought the same. I mean, look at Endermen. But
they're classic now.
We have to keep this in mind, all new mobs may seem dumb to some people, but we shouldn't say that they shouldn't be added because of it, we should, however, look at it and see if it is really boring or not.
I honestly don't think that fits Minecraft. I mean witches? I know it probably would be scary, since its a
person rather than a monster or animal. But still.... Witches? Seriously? On reddit someone suggested a
Headless Pig Jockey. Thats more like Minecraft. Witches? More like something that would be in a
magical game. I liked all the Minecraft related mobs. Skeletons, creepers, zombies etc... Witches have
nothing to do with Minecraft.
But I'm still looking forward to freaking out when I see one and running to hide in my shelter. But still, I
honestly dont think its a good idea. Hopefully its spawn rate will be very low...
This doesnt really make me happy... Witches isnt exiting at all. I really hope hes lying now =(
But again thats just my opinion
As you can see, several people have expressed that fact that witches seem boring, espesially compared to the other newer mobs, but we can also say that zombies and the like are rather boring as well (that being the other side of this argument), but I will point out that the boringish mobs are all the old ones, so we have come to expect more interesting things from Mojang now, whether or not that is a good thing remains to be seen.
Because the game is suppose to be genderless, and the name 'witch' (even though the word itself doesn't mean anything of the sort) is gererally going to be considered female, and if we start having gerder in Minecraft it will open up a bunch of stuff that is like "why is the witch female, but all the other mobs genderless" and it could lead to a lot of complaints, these complaints could thearetically lead to better things later on, but I think we all agree that one of the last things this communitty needs is more complaints.
The only odd thing about having a witch is that the word witch more often than not conveys a specific
gender: female. That is the only thing I worry about.
There's also the problem of a witch not being gender neutral like everything else in the game.
Witch is a feminine term, or is usually a feminine term unless amalgamated with a masculine title, like king.
So unless the witch is going to look like a Nazgûl, which is possible, and is not called a witch, there's
always going to be that femininity associated with it, which makes it un-minecrafty.
There have allready been some arguments agaist this:
Really? That's pretty pathetic. You're going to complain about an aspect of the game and you think it's a
problem, just because it implies some sort of gender? Really? I mean, witch doesn't even have to specify
gender, even though stereotypically female, it is only the same as saying nurse implies someone is female.
It does not technically, even if that is how it is known in common usage.
And arguing that this is not a mincecraft worthy mob because you think the name hints at gender is
unbelievably petty.
This person takes to the point of being semi-insulting to prove the point, however, I think they miss the mark, gender in Minecraft is a bigger deal then this particular person says it is.
Are you overlooking the fact that chickens and cows are female? And the zombies clearly look like males.
I don't kow why you're advocating the idea that a mob being female is 'un-Minecrafty.' It
seems like an unnecessary argument and standpoint to make.
This is to some degree true, we already have mobs that seem to have a gender, but we are still left with fact that we will be better off to have less things that are assosiated with gender
Personally, Witches puts this over the top for me. I run a private server for a group of "like minded"
individuals, who in our RL world want to have nothing to do with spiritism. Enchanting tables is pretty
borderline even. Yea, it's just a game. But, we have reputations in RL that could be tarnished by admiting
that we plan a game that has witches in it. I'm sorry if anyone else here considers this too extreem in
thinking. In a gaming market that has very limited MMO's that are "clean" enough for our interests, we've
been finding a lot of enjoyment with Minecraft. If there's no way to disable the witches, then it could
result in my having to shut down our server.
This person has convictions based on what they beleive, I will digress slightly here; all of us have convictions based on what we beleive, for example, I think we all agree that it would be really bad to start performing human sacrifices (I really hope we all think that) and we have the conviction that it is wrong based on what we believe, some people just have stronger convictions (sometimes caused by religeon, other times it is other things), and this person doesn't think that their convictions will agree with witches. There was a thread with someone saying that it would cause people to stop playing for religeous reasons, that thread is now locked, but the point is still valid; some people will stop playing Minecraft if witches get added for religeous reasons. I will say that I am a Christion, and I do find the witches to be somewhat offensive, this will not stop me from playing this great game that we all enjoy, but it will make my experience somewhat less enjoyable
Now this was from a primarilly Christion standpoint, but someone brought up another one:
And lots of wiccans find the old images of ugly evil women turning people into frogs offensive.
Personally, I know next to nothing about wiccans (and no, I don't have a desire to learn more), but evidently at least some of them will be offended by witches in game. Now I said that I would put in counter arguments, but about the only thing that people said in responce to this is (not a quote, because I am not going to quote someone insulting someone else) "Why do we care? Stop playing the game then!" This however is a selfish responce that does nothing to prove anything wrong, and some people use a "I am sorry that you have issues, but just get a mod" but this doesn't really help to disprove this reason to dislike witches either. So I have not found any responce that is worth putting up here.
5) They seem to sentient, and it takes away from the 'you are alone' feel.
At first I didn't like the idea, because I thought it meant you would no longer be alone (IMO testificates
don't count as people, because they are still fairly dumb). But now I know they're villagers maybe it won't
be very bad.
Yeah, not really a fan of this idea. It just seems really lame.
I didn't really like the addition of testificates to start with because it seemed better that the player was the
only non-undeadified humanoid mob. It ruined the feeling that the player was the only survivor of some
terrible catastrophy. But with their big noses they seem different enough to be non-human... just. Like the
innocent race that managed to survive when the human civilisation destroyed itself.
And now we're getting witches, another humanoid mob but hostile this time. Probably flying around on
broomsticks. Possibly waving magic wands. Try as I might I just can't take it seriously anymore, it's like
it's become a big incoherant joke.
If they wanted to add a new mob ghosts would have fit perfectly. Would have fit nicely with the current
theme of undead roaming the land.
These brings out the fact that they are testificate like, but there still remains the fact that the more things that you can do that other mobs can do, the less you will feel alone.
Personally, I believe that the Witch kind of takes away the loneliness of Minecraft. I want to feel relieved and filled with joy when I stumble upon a village, or when I tame a wolf or ocelot. I'd name the village, I'd name the dog, I'd name the cat. I'd love just having their company. But now, if I come upon a witch, I'm filled with sadness and despair. This thing wants to kill me. This self- aware, bipedal, potion- throwing THING wants me dead. I hate that. I want to be the Witch's friend, I want it to teach me to brew better potions. I want it to fight along side me in a dark cave filled with skeletons and zombies. Oh, and for the love of all that is holy, make it look better. It's so stereotypical and simple. I chuckle when I see the nose go up. I want it to look intimidating, not clownish. Give it, like, a pair of goggles, a patchy robe, and a smaller, paler nose. A better name would be cool too. Like, brewmaster, or alchemist, or something crazier. Ooh, make it look like a hagraven! That'd be awesome
Witches are a good idea.
I like them because they had a human environment.
I am not sure why this person thinks that it is good to not feel alone, but it is evident that some people will like the witch beter because of this.
The counter argument ends up being somnething like this: "What about the testifacates?" to this I would say simply: Yes, but the more things that you can do that the mobs can also do makes you feel lest alone. (but that is my opinion)
I like the idea of it, but i don't like the fact that it is a witch. I don't think hostile mobs should be related to
the villagers. I would be hoping for something like the blaze, but an overworld version of it.
YAY MORE CARTOONY TESTIFICATES WOOOO.
Honestly, the testificate model needs to be scraped and replaced with the player model, that would fit in
so much better.
Its out of place because all of the hostile mobs before were either neutral appearance wise(zombie,slime)
to mildly disturbing(ghast,enderman,creeper,wither), but when i look at the witch, i just chuckle a bit at
how stupid it looks. Its not threatening at all. Not to mention that it has a VERY conventional witch look,
devs missed the mark there. If it had black circles(rectangles?) under its eyes, no hat, the coat is blood
red , a giant scar on the side of its head, and had a more threatening posture, then i would except it. When
i first saw witches were being added, i thought it was like hagraven type witches, not this silly costume stuff.
I associate villagers with stupidity and the innocence of a sheep, nothing that's dangerous.
And now that image throws really hurting potions at me D:
As you can see, some people don't like the witch being asosiated with the testificates, for a variity of reasons, there really wasn't a counter argument to this either, unless you consider something to the effect of "Yes but it's your opinion that this is a bad thing" to be a good counter, which I personally don't
Now that we have covered the reasons, I will go into posible sulotions:
1) Get Mojang to skrap witches.
All I can say to this is:
(Yes I know that this is taken totally out of context, but I thought it was funny)
(So no, I don't want them removed)
2) Keep witches, the people who have issuse with them will have to get over it.
This may be what ends up happening, but I think that it would be better if we went with the last option:
3) Rename/change/remake witches so that most (it not all) of these problems will vanish.
Now I think that this is the best course of action, as a new version of the witch could:
1) Fit Minecraft better.
2) Be cool, and new, and exciting.
3) Be completly genderless.
4) Be entirely unoffensive, from a moral and/or religious standpoint.
5) Be some moster, so that we still feel more alone
6) Not be a testificate.
7) Still give us a new mob (Yay )
8) Still have a strange magical nose (not sure if this is a good thing or not...)
Oviously if they made a new mob there would still be people that would dislike it, but I think it would be fairly easy to make one that was less controversal then this witch that we have now.
I have already found quite a bit of support for this kind of idea:
They really shouldn't be called 'Witches' in my opinion. They're more like Villagers that learned how to
brew potions. If anything they should be called "Brewers"! Well, I'll be fine with this as an addition as long
as they do something with the hat. I don't know why but it just bothers me...
The Lich: a horrible mage who became an undead and practices evil magic.
The Undying Warlock: a vile spellcaster who never dies.
The Skeleton Mage: A skeleton that shoots magic bolts.
Will-O-Wisp: a floating block of light that makes an eerie sound, and shoots beams of light.
Why the Witch? Witches are lame in comparison to any of the above!
Im for it, but its eh for me.
A ghost or wraith would have been better, but I'll settle for pretty much anything.
and a variety of the post I quoted in this post have expressed some thought toward changing to witch to something different
One of the big reasons a support this third option is because I like a lot of the aspects the witch has at the moment, such as: Potion based mob (because it is a cool and new way to do things), spawn in huts in swamps (because swamps need this sort of thing, and because it is a cool new way on making a mob spawn), and other such things, however, the things listed above are a very real problem that some people have, so I will now say:
My Idea: Is to rename and possibly remodel/retexture it so that it would be less offensive to the people who have issue with it, but it would still throw potions, still spawn in swamps, and still be pretty much the same, gameplay wise, so we would still be fighting the same thing, but it would be called something different and therefor be less controversial.
Something like this (but not necessarily this):
Simple fix. Make them look less like your standard villager, and more creepy. Re-name them to be Alchemist.
Bam. Everyone wins.
Now, would that be so bad? Would you as someone who likes the witch give up a very small thing to make other members of your community happier? Or will you say that this is the best course just because you like it, Now I am not saying that my idea is the best, but I do believe that it would be at least a good start.
Now, why would we want to change them? How would it help? Well, I have a few things that this could effect, at least to a limited extent:
1) Happier people are nicer to be around. I know that this community tends to be rather rude, and uncaring, but, if people were a little happier, we might have slightly less of that.
2) Happier people will tell their friends, so that more people can enjoy this great game that we enjoy (also so that Mojang can make more money, but that doesn't effect the average Minecrafter) and because if people are playing this game, which inspires great amounts a creativity, instead of a game were we blow other peoples heads off, we might have a better world.
3) Happier people will be better for humanity as a whole, we could have a better world if more people were more happy (yes I know, this is a huge stretch to relate the witch to this, hence the "at least to a limited extent" at the beginning of this)
Now, from when I edited this in (10/12/2012) it was 49.59% that think we should do nothing, and the remaining 50 odd percent thinking that something should be done, now, if the witch were to simply be renamed, I think that at least half of the people who don't like it would think they would be fine, and at the same time, almost all of the people who think it should stay the same would still be just as (or only slightly more) unhappy with the witch as they are now (namely, not unhappy at all) so that is what I think should be done, I personally, think that they would be totally fine it they were renamed, it would harm nothing (or hardly anything), and it would give a (perhaps small) benefit.
Thank you for reading, I hope that you will vote on the poll (if the poll is not up, I am sorry, it seems that polls have been vanishing off of topics recently , I also hope that you all, if and when you are replying to this thread, will maintain a degree of courteousness to other people and their opinions, Oh, and if a failed to explain something very well, or if I missed something that someone said as evidence for or against something, I am sorry, but feel free to post it so that I can implement it into this post. Again, thanks for reading. Have fun with the new update either way
I think witches shouldn't be in minecraft because i don't feel they are creative enough. Sure, there are zombies, skeletons, and spiders but that doesn't mean they should add more stereotypical things to the game. Plus, any controversy will just cause tons of problems and anger towards Mojang. Witches just seem weird to me.
I don't like the witch because its offensive to wicca/pagan witches and such. Seeing threads about I want to drown the witch. I want to burn the witch at the stake. Why won't the witch drown? Does she float or sink? Is pretty darn offensive. And I'm sure there will be drown the witch, stake, and such mods down the line.
I would like it more if it had another name that's less offensive. Villagers have the name testficate, these witch mobs are testficates, not humans. testcraft or something is less offensive. If all the witch does is throw potions, thats not a witch. That is an alchemist.
I see you still haven't learned to do unbiased polls.
But in any case, my opinion on this is that "witch" is a misnomer. The way you have to fight them is more interesting than other mobs. It would be for the best that they were changed to be an Apothecary, neutral, and have a home in villages or somewhere out of the way. That way, we get a mob that can be used at all times of the year, can keep many of the traits of witches if they turn hostile, and could give us a supply of potion reagents.
I see you still haven't learned to do unbiased polls.
But in any case, my opinion on this is that "witch" is a misnomer. The way you have to fight them is more interesting than other mobs. It would be for the best that they were changed to be an Apothecary, neutral, and have a home in villages or somewhere out of the way. That way, we get a mob that can be used at all times of the year, can keep many of the traits of witches if they turn hostile, and could give us a supply of potion reagents.
Hello again old friend, thanks for the input, but how would you suggest that I change this poll to make is less biased? And what part of the poll do you find biased?
I don't like the witch because its offensive to wicca/pagan witches and such. Seeing threads about I want to drown the witch. I want to burn the witch at the stake. Why won't the witch drown? Does she float or sink? Is pretty darn offensive. And I'm sure there will be drown the witch, stake, and such mods down the line.
That sounds like a personal issue. Your modern mythology is far from a legitimate reason to be offended by something like this.
I don't like the witch because its offensive to wicca/pagan witches and such. Seeing threads about I want to drown the witch. I want to burn the witch at the stake. Why won't the witch drown? Does she float or sink? Is pretty darn offensive. And I'm sure there will be drown the witch, stake, and such mods down the line.
I would like it more if it had another name that's less offensive. Villagers have the name testficate, these witch mobs are testficates, not humans. testcraft or something is less offensive. If all the witch does is throw potions, thats not a witch. That is an alchemist.
Sooo... Im a human with a skeleton. Im so offended by all these skeletons in games!
But seriously, people shouldn't be offended of what they are, if they really want to be that person.
I still feel it's too early to judge whether they should be 'in game or not' but I like the way they look. When I first heard 'ranged mob' I assumed it would attack farther than a potion. Potions are a neat attack for a mob, but they don't go very far. I guess it could still be difficult to fight if it was in a room.
I really hope they give them houses in the forests, I think that would be the perfect place.
I never actually saw the picture but now that I have, at least it's not as bad as I thought. I agree with the witches living in forests if they do stay in the game.
I'm torn of the witch, I like the concept, a potion wielding mob but I'm not really a fan of its appearance. It's like the snow golems all over again although I will say I like witches more then snow golems currently.
I really like the witch.
first of all the name I feel is classic, some people might feel better if it was called warlock, but personally I feel witch is more iconic (and better for the genderlessness* of minecraft)
I just downloaded the new screenshot and fought a couple of witches and they are really tough (probably the toughest non-boss mob).
I love that they are rogue villagers and i love that they use actual potions. Both of which(witch) I feel minecraft needed.
A potion using mob is a must because we have mobs using swords and arrows and explosives.
I feel it is important that the witch is the same race as the villagers because it adds to the mythology. They were born a villager and something happened that made them turn evil.
I am disappointed that people hear witch and think halloween, when i hear witch I think of potions and evil magic. I am a lover of horror and monsters and I feel the witch is a classic monster that should be feared in games.
I feel the witch fits into the world more than a vampire or werewolf would, and because of the twilight books those two classic monsters are pretty overused these days. It is very good taste of mojang to add an evil magic user and label it witch (necromancer, warlock, mage, brewmaster all do not have the same simple ring to them)
As for the outfit I think it is spot on. it could use a little work (make the skin a little more pale maybe) but thats what texture packs are for.
As for pagans who are offended, isn't pagan a derogatory term given to polytheists by christians? Yes the witch has bad history with salem and crusades but that has nothing to do with videogames. The definition of witch is a magic (witch craft) user, if you are wiccan and are offended by a magic user in a video game then i dont know what to tell you. The fact that people are making jokes about drowning or burning the witch is because of history/pop-culture (monty python anyone?). I suggest you be more insulted by the sword (a metal christian cross used to kill many 'pagans' in the crusades) and be honored that the witch (apparently the wiccans sacred mascot lol) has made an appearance in this game.
i am excited to see the changes made to the witch (hopefully a little brewing hut to live in) and hopefully the witch becomes a feared and respected mob in minecraft. In left for dead the witch is a tough respected foe, it should be the same in minecraft.
NOTE-i am pretty biast tho because I am a huge fan of black magic in games, in wow i would always play warlock and in other games i try to always lean towards necromancer (dnd3.5 dread necro ftw). I also am a fan of black metal and absolutely love bands like 'burning witch' and 'skeleton witch'. Salem the band and the genre of music called witchhouse is very important to me.
edit- this is my first post, ive been a long time ghost of these forums, this is the first time i felt i had to write my opinion
I feel the witch fits into the world more than a vampire or werewolf would, and because of the twilight books those two classic monsters are pretty overused these days.
Well, let's just hope those bats don't turn into vampires..
Caves and ravines are scary enough already!
The third part. A simple Yes and No is all that's needed.
Well, I would say that this gives a little better input as to what people think of the idea of changing them slightly, and I still don't see how it is biased (which means nothing as it would be very hard for me to see my own bias) but I think I will leave it as it is.
I still feel it's too early to judge whether they should be 'in game or not' but I like the way they look. When I first heard 'ranged mob' I assumed it would attack farther than a potion. Potions are a neat attack for a mob, but they don't go very far. I guess it could still be difficult to fight if it was in a room.
I really hope they give them houses in the forests, I think that would be the perfect place.
Personally, I think it is a little too early as well, but I wanted to have this thread in place as the witch progressed, so I think that next Thursday will be the do or die sort of day for the witches
I'm torn of the witch, I like the concept, a potion wielding mob but I'm not really a fan of its appearance. It's like the snow golems all over again although I will say I like witches more then snow golems currently.
I agree with this, I do like what the witch does, but I don't like that it is a witch or is appearance (I honestly think that it looks like a peaceful mob)
Well, let's just hope those bats don't turn into vampires..
Caves and ravines are scary enough already!
Yeah, honestly I am not thinking that mobs are the way to make the game more scary, what we need is better sound effects because they really do make a difference... Unless the mobs are so wimpy that there is no way they will kill you. My way to make the game more scary would be to add one mob that is immune to your attacks and just dies after a certain amount of time, and then give it really scary music
I would suggest one of two things:
a.) Give witches brooms, have them live on little huts in swamps that are stood up on stilts that resemble chicken legs
b.) Rename them mad alchemists or something
I have had family members burnt at the stake in England and Ireland as witches by mindless religious zealots...
But , a witch in this game...even if I choose to burn them alive in their little huts...does not offend me in the least...and I find it actually funny .
If you find a witch in this game offensive...really? Have you ever played ANY game where you cast a spell? summon minions , ressurect the dead? Have you never watched The Wizard of Oz? Have you never watched certain Disney Classics? Will you never use , or allow a family member to use , the product Witch Hazel? Have you never read a Harry Potter book , or watched any of the movies? If you have done any of the above and you find a witch in game offensive , you are almost as big a hypocrite as the vermin that burnt my ancestors alive . Most so called witches that were hunted down , were midwives and herbalists...and actually helped people...
Its a GAME , the witch will not come and eat your children...even though they should spawn during village zombie invasions and do exactly that!
Witches will be living in huts in the swamp , it has allready been stated in a few posts and tweets .
They now not only fit into Minecraft , with their use of potions like the player themselves can use , backing the brewing system and showing it used in the Minecraft world...but also give swamps something special to look forward to...
Its semi sterotypical appearance , fits in with the game and the rest of its blocky cartoonish graphics...yet , I think they need some more work...I do like the hat...
First of all, I definitely do not want them to become something other than a testificate. The simple design adds so much implied mythology and makes the Minecraft world feel so much more cohesive, but still doesn't get in the way of the game's story-less feel. I do think, however, that the hat should be removed and replaced with something like a headband or hair, that would look less stereotypical. As for the name, I don't mind 'witch' but for moral reasons it could be changed to something like 'outcast' or 'heretic'.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
No, there has never, ever been a sandbox game with a story or ending... except Grand Theft Auto... and Saints Row... and Red Dead Redemption... and Crack Down... and Assassins Creed...
Note: Sorry for the spelling errors, spellchecker was being stupid
Also: link to page with info on witch: http://www.minecraft...d-mob-is-witch/
I made this thread because of the various things that I have been noting about the witch, I myself think that it is ok, but I think that it could be easily made better, I have also noticed that a lot of other people have expressed dislike or disapointment that this new ranged mob is a witch, this thread is devoted to unpacking those reasons, and seeing if they are legitimate reasons to dislike the witch, I intead to present each of these points with both sides of the argument, if you feel that you could add something to any of the arguments, feel free to post it, I will try to edit it into this post. I will also say that I quote a lot of people, so if you feel that I took something that you said totally out of context to manipulate what you said to say something you didn't, then you may post and complain, I will at the very least remove your name from that quote, and (if it isn't really central to a point that is being made) may remove it all together. I will also say that I put a lot of my own opinion in this, so please try to remember, this is just my opinion.
Lets start with this:
We must keep this in mind, as sometimes the only reason that we dislike something is because it is new, but that isn't really a logical reason as we will get used to it if/when it gets added.
I will also add this:
I quote this to say that we shouldn't judge them to hard, as we don't know that much about them... Yet, but several things are already in the witch that people don't like, so lets go into them:
1) It doesn't really seem to fit in Minecraft.
We all know that Minecraft isn't really the best theamed in the first place (we have things like enchanting with TNT, which makes almost no sense) but we all know that aside from a few things Minecraft tends to have a basic theme runing through it, and I think that most of us like it this way, but the real question is; do the witch mobs fit with the other mobs that we already have?
As we can see here, there are some things which some of the other mobs have in common that the witch doesn't have, but that in and of itself doesn't make it not fit. For example; we have creapers, endermen, and spiders, none of which are undead, so we can't say that witches don't fit based on that alone. This post also brings out the fact that witches could be a reason why the other mobs are here, I personally don't think that it is good to have back story for Minecraft, as that limits the imagionation as to what happened to cause this apocalips, but that is just my opinion.
It can also be said that they don't fit because of this:
Hopefully all of us know that all of the enimys don't really exist in real life, however, people are out there that would call themseves witches (even if they don't fit the Minecraft ones at all) so this makes the witch seem out of the theme
A good portion of us will, when someone says 'witch' will think of something halloween realated, I myself think of the lawn ordament of a witch splatered against a tree, so at least some of us realate witches to holloween, wereas the only other mobs that I would relate to it would be the spiders and the skelitons, so it now stands out a little bit more from the other mobs, and this opinion is not just mine;
I now quote something that really brings this out (In my opinion)
The validity of this all depends on weather you consider Minecraft Halloween themed or undead/monster apocalypse themed, I personally don't think of halloween at all when I play, so I would say that I consider it undead/monster apocalypse themed:
I will note though, that the other monsters in Minecraft (endermen, creepers) don't fit this theme either. Now we will also look at this:
As you can see the idea of making a Halloween update that adds a bunch of Halloweenish thing seems like a bad idea, if, in fact the witches are Halloweenish. Now we will also look at the other side of this:
So now we look at the fact that Minecraft allready has a bunch of Halloween themed things in it allready, however, the witches still come short in a undead/monster apocalypse, if that is what you classify Minecraft as, so really, arguing that they are Halloween related all depends on weather you think the game is Halloween themed already.
This says much of the same stuff, but it adds that enchanting and brewing help to make the witch seem more Minecrafty
Another thing about them is that they are rather stereotypical:
They do fit the stereotypical version of witches that most of us hold, at least to some degree.
Now from what I said before they don't really fit the other mobs that well (they do fit somewhat, but they seem odd at the same time)
This however could be said about all new content.
Now, as we come to the end of this section, I will quote this:
This person aserts that witches don't fit, but they also like the idea of a new potion based ranged mob (presumably)
We have to keep this in mind, all new mobs may seem dumb to some people, but we shouldn't say that they shouldn't be added because of it, we should, however, look at it and see if it is really boring or not.
(all Notch spam aside, this person makes a good point)
As you can see, several people have expressed that fact that witches seem boring, espesially compared to the other newer mobs, but we can also say that zombies and the like are rather boring as well (that being the other side of this argument), but I will point out that the boringish mobs are all the old ones, so we have come to expect more interesting things from Mojang now, whether or not that is a good thing remains to be seen.
Because the game is suppose to be genderless, and the name 'witch' (even though the word itself doesn't mean anything of the sort) is gererally going to be considered female, and if we start having gerder in Minecraft it will open up a bunch of stuff that is like "why is the witch female, but all the other mobs genderless" and it could lead to a lot of complaints, these complaints could thearetically lead to better things later on, but I think we all agree that one of the last things this communitty needs is more complaints.
There have allready been some arguments agaist this:
This person takes to the point of being semi-insulting to prove the point, however, I think they miss the mark, gender in Minecraft is a bigger deal then this particular person says it is.
This is to some degree true, we already have mobs that seem to have a gender, but we are still left with fact that we will be better off to have less things that are assosiated with gender
Now for some bad humor:
(yeah, sorry for bringing this back up, but I thought it was really funny, and I thought we could use a comical reprive)
Now we will continue
This person has convictions based on what they beleive, I will digress slightly here; all of us have convictions based on what we beleive, for example, I think we all agree that it would be really bad to start performing human sacrifices (I really hope we all think that) and we have the conviction that it is wrong based on what we believe, some people just have stronger convictions (sometimes caused by religeon, other times it is other things), and this person doesn't think that their convictions will agree with witches. There was a thread with someone saying that it would cause people to stop playing for religeous reasons, that thread is now locked, but the point is still valid; some people will stop playing Minecraft if witches get added for religeous reasons. I will say that I am a Christion, and I do find the witches to be somewhat offensive, this will not stop me from playing this great game that we all enjoy, but it will make my experience somewhat less enjoyable
Now this was from a primarilly Christion standpoint, but someone brought up another one:
Personally, I know next to nothing about wiccans (and no, I don't have a desire to learn more), but evidently at least some of them will be offended by witches in game. Now I said that I would put in counter arguments, but about the only thing that people said in responce to this is (not a quote, because I am not going to quote someone insulting someone else) "Why do we care? Stop playing the game then!" This however is a selfish responce that does nothing to prove anything wrong, and some people use a "I am sorry that you have issues, but just get a mod" but this doesn't really help to disprove this reason to dislike witches either. So I have not found any responce that is worth putting up here.
These brings out the fact that they are testificate like, but there still remains the fact that the more things that you can do that other mobs can do, the less you will feel alone.
I am not sure why this person thinks that it is good to not feel alone, but it is evident that some people will like the witch beter because of this.
The counter argument ends up being somnething like this: "What about the testifacates?" to this I would say simply: Yes, but the more things that you can do that the mobs can also do makes you feel lest alone. (but that is my opinion)
As you can see, some people don't like the witch being asosiated with the testificates, for a variity of reasons, there really wasn't a counter argument to this either, unless you consider something to the effect of "Yes but it's your opinion that this is a bad thing" to be a good counter, which I personally don't
Now that we have covered the reasons, I will go into posible sulotions:
1) Get Mojang to skrap witches.
All I can say to this is:
(Yes I know that this is taken totally out of context, but I thought it was funny)
(So no, I don't want them removed)
2) Keep witches, the people who have issuse with them will have to get over it.
This may be what ends up happening, but I think that it would be better if we went with the last option:
3) Rename/change/remake witches so that most (it not all) of these problems will vanish.
Now I think that this is the best course of action, as a new version of the witch could:
1) Fit Minecraft better.
2) Be cool, and new, and exciting.
3) Be completly genderless.
4) Be entirely unoffensive, from a moral and/or religious standpoint.
5) Be some moster, so that we still feel more alone
6) Not be a testificate.
7) Still give us a new mob (Yay )
8) Still have a strange magical nose (not sure if this is a good thing or not...)
Oviously if they made a new mob there would still be people that would dislike it, but I think it would be fairly easy to make one that was less controversal then this witch that we have now.
I have already found quite a bit of support for this kind of idea:
and a variety of the post I quoted in this post have expressed some thought toward changing to witch to something different
My Idea: Is to rename and possibly remodel/retexture it so that it would be less offensive to the people who have issue with it, but it would still throw potions, still spawn in swamps, and still be pretty much the same, gameplay wise, so we would still be fighting the same thing, but it would be called something different and therefor be less controversial.
Something like this (but not necessarily this):
Now, would that be so bad? Would you as someone who likes the witch give up a very small thing to make other members of your community happier? Or will you say that this is the best course just because you like it, Now I am not saying that my idea is the best, but I do believe that it would be at least a good start.
Now, why would we want to change them? How would it help? Well, I have a few things that this could effect, at least to a limited extent:
1) Happier people are nicer to be around. I know that this community tends to be rather rude, and uncaring, but, if people were a little happier, we might have slightly less of that.
2) Happier people will tell their friends, so that more people can enjoy this great game that we enjoy (also so that Mojang can make more money, but that doesn't effect the average Minecrafter) and because if people are playing this game, which inspires great amounts a creativity, instead of a game were we blow other peoples heads off, we might have a better world.
3) Happier people will be better for humanity as a whole, we could have a better world if more people were more happy (yes I know, this is a huge stretch to relate the witch to this, hence the "at least to a limited extent" at the beginning of this)
Now, from when I edited this in (10/12/2012) it was 49.59% that think we should do nothing, and the remaining 50 odd percent thinking that something should be done, now, if the witch were to simply be renamed, I think that at least half of the people who don't like it would think they would be fine, and at the same time, almost all of the people who think it should stay the same would still be just as (or only slightly more) unhappy with the witch as they are now (namely, not unhappy at all) so that is what I think should be done, I personally, think that they would be totally fine it they were renamed, it would harm nothing (or hardly anything), and it would give a (perhaps small) benefit.
Thank you for reading, I hope that you will vote on the poll (if the poll is not up, I am sorry, it seems that polls have been vanishing off of topics recently , I also hope that you all, if and when you are replying to this thread, will maintain a degree of courteousness to other people and their opinions, Oh, and if a failed to explain something very well, or if I missed something that someone said as evidence for or against something, I am sorry, but feel free to post it so that I can implement it into this post. Again, thanks for reading. Have fun with the new update either way
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
A witch.
A witch who?
I WITCH I could come in.
Bu-dum-tss
That was terrible even for bad humor
I would like it more if it had another name that's less offensive. Villagers have the name testficate, these witch mobs are testficates, not humans. testcraft or something is less offensive. If all the witch does is throw potions, thats not a witch. That is an alchemist.
But in any case, my opinion on this is that "witch" is a misnomer. The way you have to fight them is more interesting than other mobs. It would be for the best that they were changed to be an Apothecary, neutral, and have a home in villages or somewhere out of the way. That way, we get a mob that can be used at all times of the year, can keep many of the traits of witches if they turn hostile, and could give us a supply of potion reagents.
Yeah, that was pretty bad
Hello again old friend, thanks for the input, but how would you suggest that I change this poll to make is less biased? And what part of the poll do you find biased?
The third part. A simple Yes and No is all that's needed.
That sounds like a personal issue. Your modern mythology is far from a legitimate reason to be offended by something like this.
Sooo... Im a human with a skeleton. Im so offended by all these skeletons in games!
But seriously, people shouldn't be offended of what they are, if they really want to be that person.
I really hope they give them houses in the forests, I think that would be the perfect place.
first of all the name I feel is classic, some people might feel better if it was called warlock, but personally I feel witch is more iconic (and better for the genderlessness* of minecraft)
I just downloaded the new screenshot and fought a couple of witches and they are really tough (probably the toughest non-boss mob).
I love that they are rogue villagers and i love that they use actual potions. Both of which(witch) I feel minecraft needed.
A potion using mob is a must because we have mobs using swords and arrows and explosives.
I feel it is important that the witch is the same race as the villagers because it adds to the mythology. They were born a villager and something happened that made them turn evil.
I am disappointed that people hear witch and think halloween, when i hear witch I think of potions and evil magic. I am a lover of horror and monsters and I feel the witch is a classic monster that should be feared in games.
I feel the witch fits into the world more than a vampire or werewolf would, and because of the twilight books those two classic monsters are pretty overused these days. It is very good taste of mojang to add an evil magic user and label it witch (necromancer, warlock, mage, brewmaster all do not have the same simple ring to them)
As for the outfit I think it is spot on. it could use a little work (make the skin a little more pale maybe) but thats what texture packs are for.
As for pagans who are offended, isn't pagan a derogatory term given to polytheists by christians? Yes the witch has bad history with salem and crusades but that has nothing to do with videogames. The definition of witch is a magic (witch craft) user, if you are wiccan and are offended by a magic user in a video game then i dont know what to tell you. The fact that people are making jokes about drowning or burning the witch is because of history/pop-culture (monty python anyone?). I suggest you be more insulted by the sword (a metal christian cross used to kill many 'pagans' in the crusades) and be honored that the witch (apparently the wiccans sacred mascot lol) has made an appearance in this game.
i am excited to see the changes made to the witch (hopefully a little brewing hut to live in) and hopefully the witch becomes a feared and respected mob in minecraft. In left for dead the witch is a tough respected foe, it should be the same in minecraft.
NOTE-i am pretty biast tho because I am a huge fan of black magic in games, in wow i would always play warlock and in other games i try to always lean towards necromancer (dnd3.5 dread necro ftw). I also am a fan of black metal and absolutely love bands like 'burning witch' and 'skeleton witch'. Salem the band and the genre of music called witchhouse is very important to me.
edit- this is my first post, ive been a long time ghost of these forums, this is the first time i felt i had to write my opinion
Caves and ravines are scary enough already!
Well, I would say that this gives a little better input as to what people think of the idea of changing them slightly, and I still don't see how it is biased (which means nothing as it would be very hard for me to see my own bias) but I think I will leave it as it is.
Personally, I think it is a little too early as well, but I wanted to have this thread in place as the witch progressed, so I think that next Thursday will be the do or die sort of day for the witches
I agree with this, I do like what the witch does, but I don't like that it is a witch or is appearance (I honestly think that it looks like a peaceful mob)
Yeah, honestly I am not thinking that mobs are the way to make the game more scary, what we need is better sound effects because they really do make a difference... Unless the mobs are so wimpy that there is no way they will kill you. My way to make the game more scary would be to add one mob that is immune to your attacks and just dies after a certain amount of time, and then give it really scary music
a.) Give witches brooms, have them live on little huts in swamps that are stood up on stilts that resemble chicken legs
b.) Rename them mad alchemists or something
But , a witch in this game...even if I choose to burn them alive in their little huts...does not offend me in the least...and I find it actually funny .
If you find a witch in this game offensive...really? Have you ever played ANY game where you cast a spell? summon minions , ressurect the dead? Have you never watched The Wizard of Oz? Have you never watched certain Disney Classics? Will you never use , or allow a family member to use , the product Witch Hazel? Have you never read a Harry Potter book , or watched any of the movies? If you have done any of the above and you find a witch in game offensive , you are almost as big a hypocrite as the vermin that burnt my ancestors alive . Most so called witches that were hunted down , were midwives and herbalists...and actually helped people...
Its a GAME , the witch will not come and eat your children...even though they should spawn during village zombie invasions and do exactly that!
Witches will be living in huts in the swamp , it has allready been stated in a few posts and tweets .
They now not only fit into Minecraft , with their use of potions like the player themselves can use , backing the brewing system and showing it used in the Minecraft world...but also give swamps something special to look forward to...
Its semi sterotypical appearance , fits in with the game and the rest of its blocky cartoonish graphics...yet , I think they need some more work...I do like the hat...