Yeah, but that doesn't mean that it's smart to waste it on something that barely does anything. It simply isn't worth the cost, doesn't matter if you have excess or not.
I think the problem with the beacon is the design. I think it looks great, but it takes too many resources for its area. However, if we changed how it looked then it wouldn't be as cool, so we have to keep it how it is, a long term situational investment.
That's a horrible comparision - It's not even remotely the same thing.
You can't compare collecting materials with a boss fight.
Actually, yes, I can. It's the same nonsensical logic. Why would players accept a fight where you HAVE to take two million turns to do it? Why would they not just go play something else, or try to find some way to just outright skip the broken boss? Just like with the beacon: Why in the world would they accept a method of buffing themselves that costs an insane amount of materials and is very weak, when they could just skip that and go straight to potions and enchantments? NOBODY here has given even one good reason for doing such a thing. Not. ONE.
It is very possible to collect materials over a period of time. You even admited this.
Yes, it is.
If you are able to collect one type of materials over a period of time, then logically you should be able to do the same for your pyramid.
Again though..... WHY? What.... is..... the.... POINT? Again, with the question that nobody has yet to deliver a sane answer to. Again, I say: Potions. Enchantments. Both are outright stronger, and both are good, thought out gameplay mechanics with (mostly) balanced costs. Give me a GOOD reason to use the pyramid and beacon over the potions and enchantments. No, seriously, I'd love to hear one. I *want* this thing to be useful. As I've said before, I like the concept.
But the execution is about as bloody awful as it's possible to get. The speed buff is useless because there's no range, and nowhere to run to. The jump buff is useless because there's also no VERTICAL range, so you cant use it to get very high at all ANYWAY; and why in the world would someone build a pyramid to go vertical faster when a ladder would do? You cant use the jump buff to aid in exploration because you cannot explore with the beacon's effects. Same with the combat buffs. You'd have to sit around in that dinky area waiting for mobs to come to you, or wander out and stupidly try to lure them in, which takes more time. And the regeneration..... ONLY works with the biggest pyramid. You'd have so very few of these regen points that you're better off with potions ANYWAY, because dangerous situations where you're near enough to the beacon for it's regen effects to be USEFUL are going to be very rare. NONE of the buffs make any sense within that limited range. None of them.
So, give me a reason to use this. A use that cant be done easier with potions/enchantments. Because no matter how I look at this, I cannot see one.
I think the problem with the beacon is the design. I think it looks great, but it takes too many resources for its area. However, if we changed how it looked then it wouldn't be as cool, so we have to keep it how it is, a long term situational investment.
Aye, I actually agree with this. The solution is not changing the cost.
The solution is changing what the thing DOES, and how it does it. Make the range bigger. MUCH bigger. If I'm within such a range where the beacon's light beam is in rendering distance, it should be giving me the buff. It's really that simple. And no vertical limit at all. THAT, I can see, potentially being worth the pyramid, depending on just what you want to do in the area. It still wouldnt be perfect.... but it'd be a hell of alot better than the screwed up gizmo it is now.
Actually, yes, I can. It's the same nonsensical logic. Why would players accept a fight where you HAVE to take two million turns to do it?
But, it's not at all the same.
If you are fighting a boss you can't fight him for awhile, then take a break and do something else. You have to keep fighting non-stop until the fight is finished. However, you can work towards building a pyramid over a certain period of time.
This is the whole problem with your "logic," if you can even call it that. The fact that you are unwilling to see this point is entirely why this debate is still going on and why you think that your ridiculous comparison is a fair and accurate one.
Give me a GOOD reason to use the pyramid and beacon over the potions and enchantments. No, seriously, I'd love to hear one. I *want* this thing to be useful. As I've said before, I like the concept.
Because the beacon gives you effects that potions cannot. You can also get resistance from the pyramid, instead of from a golden apple. You can use enchantments with the pyramid as an added bonus. The effects will never run out and it will never degrade. Once you build the pyramid you never have to collect materials to get those effects ever again.
You can build it in your mine to mine faster with haste, you can build it near your mob spawners to quickly kill mobs and get xp. Build it in the Nether and slay zombie pigmen for gold and xp, kill endermen in the end, the enderdragon, etc. etc.
My mind has changed on the beacon. At first i thought it was a waste, but recently I put all my unused resources to use and made the largest variant. After having loads of fun with all the powers I realized you can make other pyramids at almost 70% cheaper if it is attached to the first pyramid. I now have Strength II, Speed II, Jump II, Resistance II, Regeneration and Haste I. Its amazing. Im actually remodeling my house so that I dont need stairs anymore, I can just jump! It has soo many advantages you would never think about. I built a wall around my house showing where the powers end, inside this ring is where I fight mobs at night for easy xp. Something else I found out is that while your in the perimeter, you NEVER have to eat. Even if you start taking starvation damage you recover it too fast. The most useful powers are Damage II, Resistance II and Regen + anything else. Jump boost and Speed are fun, but not as practical when it comes to a survival aspect, and Haste is just plain dumb. My Efficiency IV Diamond Pickaxe already obliterates anything within 5 blocks instantly, I dont need anymore mining boosts. As weird as it sounds I just suggest you try it out. If you dont like it you can always break it back down into the ingots it was made from. I have always had a huge surplus of iron and gold anyways so it isnt much of a big deal to me. Its expensive, but it technically it is cheaper in the long run than getting the same effects via potions. Also you cant get Resistance any other way. There is no possible way anyone can use all the excess resources they get, especially if they mine alot like I do.
The solution is changing what the thing DOES, and how it does it. Make the range bigger. MUCH bigger. If I'm within such a range where the beacon's light beam is in rendering distance, it should be giving me the buff. It's really that simple. And no vertical limit at all. THAT, I can see, potentially being worth the pyramid, depending on just what you want to do in the area. It still wouldnt be perfect.... but it'd be a hell of alot better than the screwed up gizmo it is now.
That's pretty true, the buffs they give in that range are silly considering those buffs are more 'adventure' oriented.
If you are fighting a boss you can't fight him for awhile, then take a break and do something else. You have to keep fighting non-stop until the fight is finished. However, you can work towards building a pyramid over a certain period of time.
You can build it in your mine to mine faster with haste, you can build it near your mob spawners to quickly kill mobs and get xp. Build it in the Nether and slay zombie pigmen for gold and xp, kill endermen in the end, the enderdragon, etc. etc.
The question isn't "is it possible", the question is, is it worth it? What if we had to build a pyramid to the height limit for just a jump buff, would anyone do it? Very few would. There is a line that has to be drawn on how much things are worth.
The mining buff is an utter joke, how much are you really going to get in that small area?
Edit: does anyone know in the folder where the green border texture is for the beacon, I can't find it
This is the whole problem with your "logic," if you can even call it that. The fact that you are unwilling to see this point is entirely why this debate is still going on and why you think that your ridiculous comparison is a fair and accurate one.
Considering I'm talking to someone who is unwilling to see the (ridiculously obvious) problem of the MONSTROUS COST, that statement means very, very little. I note you still have yet to provide an example of this thing being actually practical and useful in such a way that it makes the 1500 ingots WORTH it, when that same time could be used to brew 200+ potions (or lots and lots of enchantments) that are stronger and provide the effects in an easier, more efficient way.
Because the beacon gives you effects that potions cannot.
Not really. The ONLY effect that it gives you that cannot (yet) be gotten otherwise is the jump buff.... and that's IT. But why dont we examine these a bit in detail?
You can also get resistance from the pyramid, instead of from a golden apple.
You know what else gives you resistance? Armor and enchantments. The resistance provided by the pyramid is weak, and pointless if you have enchanted diamond armor. Which, I note, takes REALLY SUPER ULTRA DRAMATICALLY LESS TIME AND RESOURCES TO MAKE THAN THE PYRAMID.
The effects will never run out and it will never degrade. Once you build the pyramid you never have to collect materials to get those effects ever again.
Wrong.
You're STILL missing the hyper-obvious problem that lots of people in this topic are seeing pretty much instantly. These "never wear off" effects ONLY WORK IN THE BEACON'S TINY RANGE. 40 blocks is barely anything. If you wanna use the battle enchantments? Well, guess what, you get to spend time LURING mobs into that range if they do not happen to spawn there. If you wanna use something like the jump boost to get over something? Better hope that that something just happens to be within that range, otherwise you get to waste pick durability (and lotsa time) MOVING the damn thing (and even then, why in the hell would you not just use a damn ladder or place a couple of quick blocks to get over the obstacle instead?) . Jump boost is an effect that COULD be useful for exploring..... too bad the pyramid's range is utterly worthless for this! Guess what potions and enchantments do though? WORK ANYWHERE. Particularly enchantments.... they're completely permanent until the tool/armor/sword/bow breaks. Armor in particular can give you so many defensive effects at once that you're basically invincible, considering that each piece of armor can be seperately enchanted. Enchantments and defense that work anywhere. If you're out exploring a forest and you run into trouble? Guess what? Beacon wont save you here, because you're outside of it's tiny range.
You can build it in your mine to mine faster with haste
Also wrong.
Using this will DRAMATICALLY increase the time it takes to mine something. Why? Again..... tiny range. If you build it on the surface, for instance, you cannot dig any lower than 40 layers and still have the effect. You'd have to dig out a big area UNDERGROUND for the pyramid to sit, and then drill a hole to the surface, in order to drop the effect range lower into the ground. Guess what you COULD be doing instead of building or moving this thing? You could be ALREADY MINING. Know what else gives you "haste"? A LEVEL ONE EFFICIENCY ENCHANTMENT. And it's not hard at all to get level 4 Efficiency, which is fast to the point of being a little absurd. Items like that will always be faster. Why in the flying hell would I want to waste time with a pyramid when I could just bring those tools? I could just bring an efficiency 4 pick with me, and just start mining, right away. No wasting time crafting iron blocks and then placing iron blocks and then placing a pyramid and then moving the pyramid whenever my inevitably large strip-mine's size exceed's that of the limited range of the Beacon's effects. Haste, like Speed Boost, is utterly useless within a tiny range like that. If the thing had a *BIG* range, such as "if it renders the beam on Far draw distance at all, you get the effect", now THAT would be useful. It would allow for a MASSIVE strip mine, of any depth, within the large range of effect. But it doesnt work that way, now does it? Oh, hold on..... it DOES work that way if I simply use enchantments! Those are instantly compatible with strip-mines OR caves of ANY size!
you can build it near your mob spawners to quickly kill mobs and get xp. Build it in the Nether and slay zombie pigmen for gold and xp, kill endermen in the end, the enderdragon, etc. etc.
Or you could.... you know.... fight them normally over the course of normal exploration (which also achieves side goals, such as EXPLORATION and FINDING ORES, and allows you to do things like mine coal, which gives you both coal AND XP). Or simply build a grinder, which most players are likely to prefer, due to the part where it doesnt cost 1500 ingots to do so. Instead, it usually costs a bit of a pickaxe and some stone maybe. Sometimes water is involved. While I'm not fond of grinders myself, there's no way in hell I'd waste the time getting the materials for and building a pyramid just to do the very same thing that grinders do, only SLOWER and LESS EFFICIENTLY. Oh, and you'd have to individually kill each mob seperately, using sword durability on each one. And all that slashing will use up Hunger Bar as you go, requiring the use of many food items. Grinders, however, can work WITHOUT YOU EVEN NEEDING TO MOVE. You just step away and do something else for 10 minutes, then you come back and toss ONE splash potion at the mob heap, killing ALL of them in a single blow; this is how the fall-damage grinders I'm familiar with work. And there's going to be all sorts of different designs for those.
Oh, and using the pyramid with it? Only works if you get a spawner that's high enough. If it's deep in the ground, you get to spend even MORE time digging out a spot and drilling a hole. Pointless. Grinders take time to build as well, but at least they dont have a batshit-insane cost, and are dramatically more efficient.
And yes. As you stated in bold, you can indeed work towards getting the pyramid over a period of time. But nobody has yet to provide even one honestly good, practical, efficient reason for doing this! This idea assumes that the player is mining out every freaking iron (or whatever) ore seam that they see, *and* doing lots.... and lots.... and lots.... and lots.... and lots.... of exploration. If I already have 4 stacks of iron, there's not too much reason to just keep mining more of it when I just dont need it yet. And maybe the player wants to spend time doing other, non-iron-mining related things. If they spend a bunch of time building a big mansion, or expanding a Nether Gate network, or hunting Nether mobs, or chopping down trees.... that's all time NOT spent gathering iron (or farming for gold/emerald). The longer you spend NOT doing that one thing, the longer it takes to produce the insane cost of the pyramid. The "get it over time" idea seriously will take a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE amount of time PER PYRAMID for many players, as most dont spend ALL of their time exploring areas full of the required ores.
No matter how you look at it or try to reason it out, there's one very, very simple fact here: The Beacon provides very, very little effect or practical use, when considering it's MASSIVE cost, particularly in comparison to all SORTS of other items, which give you a good value for the cost that they require. 1500 ingots for "not quite a potion"'s worth of power is NOT worth it. You can argue all you want, but that fact is not going to change. Particularly in a game where there's an absolutely stupid amount of ways to do different things in very efficient, sensible ways.
Or I could use all that iron for (many, MANY) other things that are more useful. I'm sure that the 500 iron picks I could make instead would serve me better than being able to run faster inside of a small box.
Exactly. See? This really isnt all that hard to understand.
EDIT:
Also, to Redstonevet90: I'm not going to argue with you any more on this topic. It's starting to get downright silly. I've made all of the points and feedback and stuff that I've wanted to on the topic of the Beacon block, and I've done so in extreme detail. Other forum goers have also chimed in repeatedly.
The blasted Beacon is unbalanced: That's the fact of it. If you still want to use the thing, great. Do so. If you want to continue to try to convince people that 1500 ingots is worth things like a 40 block speed boost, then go for it. But my points are made, and I'm going to move on to other topics, so dont expect responses if you quote me directly.
My mind has changed on the beacon. At first i thought it was a waste, but recently I put all my unused resources to use and made the largest variant. After having loads of fun with all the powers I realized you can make other pyramids at almost 70% cheaper if it is attached to the first pyramid. I now have Strength II, Speed II, Jump II, Resistance II, Regeneration and Haste I. Its amazing. Im actually remodeling my house so that I dont need stairs anymore, I can just jump! It has soo many advantages you would never think about. I built a wall around my house showing where the powers end, inside this ring is where I fight mobs at night for easy xp. Something else I found out is that while your in the perimeter, you NEVER have to eat. Even if you start taking starvation damage you recover it too fast. The most useful powers are Damage II, Resistance II and Regen + anything else. Jump boost and Speed are fun, but not as practical when it comes to a survival aspect, and Haste is just plain dumb. My Efficiency IV Diamond Pickaxe already obliterates anything within 5 blocks instantly, I dont need anymore mining boosts. As weird as it sounds I just suggest you try it out. If you dont like it you can always break it back down into the ingots it was made from. I have always had a huge surplus of iron and gold anyways so it isnt much of a big deal to me. Its expensive, but it technically it is cheaper in the long run than getting the same effects via potions. Also you cant get Resistance any other way. There is no possible way anyone can use all the excess resources they get, especially if they mine alot like I do.
Not a bad use there. That's the kind of reasoning I'd prefer to see! If you're willing to specifically remodel your base to provide ways to make the effects useful, THEN it might have some use. It'd still be way, WAY too pricey for those effects (seriously, that's the simple fact of all of it), but still, that's not a bad use.... IF you already had all that iron to begin with.
That all still is very.... specific.... to your one base, though. For many players, the layout of their bases would make such effects just not make any sense; not to mention, that if the base is simply too BIG, the Pyramid wont work in the whole thing. And some players have seriously ENORMOUS structures! Or, like myself, they may have MULTIPLE bases in multiple locations, that they move to and from depending on what they're doing. Would need more giant pyramids for that (which is part of the problem I'm trying to point out)
That's pretty true, the buffs they give in that range are silly considering those buffs are more 'adventure' oriented.
The question isn't "is it possible", the question is, is it worth it? What if we had to build a pyramid to the height limit for just a jump buff, would anyone do it? Very few would. There is a line that has to be drawn on how much things are worth.
The mining buff is an utter joke, how much are you really going to get in that small area?
Exactly. Granted, a metal pyramid that stretches to the sky would at least be absurdly impressive.
Aside from all of that though, I reiterate: I dont dislike the Beacon or the ideas behind it. I actually really LIKE the concepts behind this particular block. It's very creative and interesting! But that range simply NEEDS TO CHANGE for this thing to be worth it. That pretty much sums up the point of absolutely everything I've been trying to say all this time.
EDIT: Oops, got a double post going here. Not quite what I meant to do.
Not a bad use there. That's the kind of reasoning I'd prefer to see! If you're willing to specifically remodel your base to provide ways to make the effects useful, THEN it might have some use. It'd still be way, WAY too pricey for those effects (seriously, that's the simple fact of all of it), but still, that's not a bad use.... IF you already had all that iron to begin with.
That all still is very.... specific.... to your one base, though. For many players, the layout of their bases would make such effects just not make any sense; not to mention, that if the base is simply too BIG, the Pyramid wont work in the whole thing. And some players have seriously ENORMOUS structures! Or, like myself, they may have MULTIPLE bases in multiple locations, that they move to and from depending on what they're doing. Would need more giant pyramids for that (which is part of the problem I'm trying to point out)
Exactly. Granted, a metal pyramid that stretches to the sky would at least be absurdly impressive.
Aside from all of that though, I reiterate: I dont dislike the Beacon or the ideas behind it. I actually really LIKE the concepts behind this particular block. It's very creative and interesting! But that range simply NEEDS TO CHANGE for this thing to be worth it. That pretty much sums up the point of absolutely everything I've been trying to say all this time.
EDIT: Oops, got a double post going here. Not quite what I meant to do.
I can agree with your points. But one thing people need to remember is this is an absolute end game structure. I wouldnt have built the pyramid unless I was oozing with unused resources. Also, you have to plan it properly to get the most out of it like i did with my base. Its obviously not gonna be that useful for people who have multiple bases, like yourself. Just remember, its not a requirement to build so dont stress it too much. After you have played a world for a VERY long time you undoubtably have a huge amount of resources, and im glad they introduced a fun way to use them, even if it is inefficient. What I really want is more uses for the Nether Star, more reasons to fight the Wither.
I can agree with your points. But one thing people need to remember is this is an absolute end game structure. I wouldnt have built the pyramid unless I was oozing with unused resources. Also, you have to plan it properly to get the most out of it like i did with my base. Its obviously not gonna be that useful for people who have multiple bases, like yourself. Just remember, its not a requirement to build so dont stress it too much. After you have played a world for a VERY long time you undoubtably have a huge amount of resources, and im glad they introduced a fun way to use them, even if it is inefficient. What I really want is more uses for the Nether Star, more reasons to fight the Wither.
Yup, that too.
It's not like players cant use the thing. Definitely not what I've been saying. If they REALLY want to use the giant pyramid, that's fine. Even me; when I eventually end up with that silly amount of iron, I may well build one for the hell of it, mostly just to clear inventory space in chests. It wont be all that great, and it sure as hell wont provide even remotely close to the proper value for the cost, but I can at least use it to give the glass bridge that I cross to enter my base a permanent speed boost.
But the thing's just so bloody imbalanced, and it's really a shame. It could be worth SO much more than it is if done right.
At the very least, I'll be using the tiny-pyramid version to mark important locations with the light beam.
If you are fighting a boss you can't fight him for awhile, then take a break and do something else. You have to keep fighting non-stop until the fight is finished. However, you can work towards building a pyramid over a certain period of time.
This is the whole problem with your "logic," if you can even call it that. The fact that you are unwilling to see this point is entirely why this debate is still going on and why you think that your ridiculous comparison is a fair and accurate one.
Because the beacon gives you effects that potions cannot. You can also get resistance from the pyramid, instead of from a golden apple. You can use enchantments with the pyramid as an added bonus. The effects will never run out and it will never degrade. Once you build the pyramid you never have to collect materials to get those effects ever again.
You can build it in your mine to mine faster with haste, you can build it near your mob spawners to quickly kill mobs and get xp. Build it in the Nether and slay zombie pigmen for gold and xp, kill endermen in the end, the enderdragon, etc. etc.
I have a challenge for you, can you provide one practical use for the pyramid that can't be done more efficiently another way?
If you build it in your mine, you have to clear out an area to build it, then dig a hole for the light to shine through, then build the pyramid, then you can finally begin mining. Which would be all well and good, but whenever your mine moves outside of the 40 block radius, you have to dig another room, another hole, tear down the old pyramid, and re-build it, which will probably take much longer than the .1 second you save on each block with haste.
If you want to use it for an XP grinding purpose, you could just build an XP farm which lets you kill the mobs with one punch, which would take up a fraction of the time and resources put into the pyramid, hell you could build TWENTY XP grinders for a fraction of the resources and less time.
Seriously, the pyramid has no practical purpose that can't be done better by something else.
I have a challenge for you, can you provide one practical use for the pyramid that can't be done more efficiently another way?
If you build it in your mine, you have to clear out an area to build it, then dig a hole for the light to shine through, then build the pyramid, then you can finally begin mining. Which would be all well and good, but whenever your mine moves outside of the 40 block radius, you have to dig another room, another hole, tear down the old pyramid, and re-build it, which will probably take much longer than the .1 second you save on each block with haste.
If you want to use it for an XP grinding purpose, you could just build an XP farm which lets you kill the mobs with one punch, which would take up a fraction of the time and resources put into the pyramid, hell you could build TWENTY XP grinders for a fraction of the resources and less time.
Seriously, the pyramid has no practical purpose that can't be done better by something else.
Its a long term investment, designed for late end game. If you have played a world as long as i have on my main one then you will easily have the resources to build 1-2 full pyramids. Also, just a note, technically, it is in fact more efficient in the long run than brewing the respective potions. But, this is over a long time. Its an option build, dont stress it so much.
Its a long term investment, designed for late end game. If you have played a world as long as i have on my main one then you will easily have the resources to build 1-2 full pyramids. Also, just a note, technically, it is in fact more efficient in the long run than brewing the respective potions. But, this is over a long time. Its an option build, dont stress it so much.
Yes, it's optional, does that mean that it shouldn't be functional? The point isn't how difficult it is to build, it's that you barely get anything out of it.
And it really isn't as effective as potions, because of it's limited range. Yes, I can run faster and I never have to brew another swiftness potion... until I run 40 blocks away, rendering it totally useless. Sure, I could go stand by it to regenerate health, but what if I'm exploring a cave hundreds of meters away from my base?
I'm not sure if I mentioned this before on this thread, but what the beacon needs is one of two things; better range or better effects.
We all know that the beacon needs better range, as stated above, but what could also solve the problem is to give it better effects. What if I could stand by the beacon and regenerate not only health, but hunger? What if standing by it repaired my tools and armor? What if the beacon's radius could prevent blocks from being destroyed by the Creepers or otherwise? What if it made crops grow twenty times faster? These sorts of things make the effort you have to go through worth it. They need to provide you with effects that potions can't* to be any useful. Better effects would just make the beacon's pitiful range worth it in the end.
Also, I noticed earlier that redstonevelvet made a post regarding using the beacon in the End. That's a great idea, except for the part where the Enderdragon destroys it by flying into it. Oops.
*Yes, I realize that potions can provide you with instant health and regeneration, and food can restore your hunger. I'm just saying that the beacon should be able to make all of these unnecessary in its range.
I kind of assumed this was a multiplayer-oriented endgame feature. If you're a large group gathering the materials doesn't take that long and everyone benefits from it. Is that wrong somehow?
That's probably the most effective use considering you have a base and you could defend it with the buffs. Apparently mobs can still destroy your stuff with plugins so that might be a problem with that though, so you'd have to fight the wither again because people keep destroying it.
Also, I think it makes it sound better if we mention the full diameter of 81 instead of the 40 block radius, it makes it sound a little bigger. lol
You can also NOT have maxed out resistance armour and receive the extra pyramid buff, or you could simply choose another buff from the pyramid if you do... LOL.
But I'm pretty sure if you get to the point where you have 1k-some mineral and are able to kill wither I'm pretty sure getting high enchant armor is a synch.You could argue that you can throw lower levels on your armor and then supplement them with the buff, but once again it's in that small range.
On the point of keeping the good armor enchants and using a different buff, the other buffs are also fairly useless in that radius like everyone previously described. It is only useful when you cater to it and stay within that range.
But I'm pretty sure if you get to the point where you have 1k-some mineral and are able to kill wither I'm pretty sure getting high enchant armor is a synch.
Then pick a different buff?!?! There is a bunch to choose from.
Guys. Seriously? Let's all be nice to each other, there is absolutely NO reason to hate on other people or comment and single out certain people for their comments to this post. And I think the folks doing it know who I'm talking about, alright? If you have any comments or concerns, please PM me them.
So what if it's 80 blocks across total? You can still only go 40 blocks in any direction from the center before you lose the buff. Saying it has an 80 block range is stupid. Hell, 80 blocks still is barely anything considering how huge the world is, not to mention you will rarely be able to take advantage of the vertical range anyways, which cuts a huge amount off of those blocks that it theoretically effects.
The only time the 80 block total comes into play is if I make a pyramid halfway between 2 points, say my base and a farm. I could use speed to cut my travel time down by maybe a second. Is that really worth 1500 iron and a rather destructive boss fight? If I REALLY wanted to get a speed boost I could just set up a dispenser with splash potions of swiftness in it, which costs me next to nothing per trip. Sure you have to re-fill it and brew the potions (which are totally renewable except for glass, but how many times have you had a sand shortage. >_>), but it's SO MUCH CHEAPER it isn't even funny.
I think somebody used the example of a pizza earlier. If a pizza cost 1000 dollars and you had chests bursting with 100 dollar bills, would you buy it? Maybe, but what if there was another pizza shop that sold the same pizza (or maybe a better one, depending on the toppings [effects]) for 10 dollars? Which one would you buy then?
--Once I think about it, I stay around my base about 70% of the time, whether it's growing my farm or building my house. The rest is going to another biome to collect things or going down and mining. I just used the bed for the first night to set spawn and from then on keep it night. If any mobs starting wandering around the edges I take them out.
--Also, I'm sticking to using leather armor, since leather armor doesn't last very long, I put lv1 enchants on it. Since that's relatively low protection, that defense buff would be pretty nice. Adding this all up, the speed buff(going between plant farm<>house<>animal farm) and all the combat buffs (def/atk/regen defending the perimeter) would all be very useful to me.
--Why don't I wear better armor or use potions instead? Because I can dye the leather, iron armor makes the game too easy, and because whenever I start going on a potion fest I tend to use about 10 potions then stop bothering simply because I feel it's almost a waste of time. I mean sure, I'll use potions against wither, but I feel it's a waste of time always brewing speed/atk potions to kill things, I tend to skip the process after a while.
I also get 'elixir' syndrome. In rpg's I tend to stack up valuable items(potions) and always feel I need to save them for 'the right time' but then never use them.
I guess the beacon can be for people who are lazy in a way and use spare resources so they don't have to go through the brewing redundancy.
Actually, yes, I can. It's the same nonsensical logic. Why would players accept a fight where you HAVE to take two million turns to do it? Why would they not just go play something else, or try to find some way to just outright skip the broken boss? Just like with the beacon: Why in the world would they accept a method of buffing themselves that costs an insane amount of materials and is very weak, when they could just skip that and go straight to potions and enchantments? NOBODY here has given even one good reason for doing such a thing. Not. ONE.
Yes, it is.
Again though..... WHY? What.... is..... the.... POINT? Again, with the question that nobody has yet to deliver a sane answer to. Again, I say: Potions. Enchantments. Both are outright stronger, and both are good, thought out gameplay mechanics with (mostly) balanced costs. Give me a GOOD reason to use the pyramid and beacon over the potions and enchantments. No, seriously, I'd love to hear one. I *want* this thing to be useful. As I've said before, I like the concept.
But the execution is about as bloody awful as it's possible to get. The speed buff is useless because there's no range, and nowhere to run to. The jump buff is useless because there's also no VERTICAL range, so you cant use it to get very high at all ANYWAY; and why in the world would someone build a pyramid to go vertical faster when a ladder would do? You cant use the jump buff to aid in exploration because you cannot explore with the beacon's effects. Same with the combat buffs. You'd have to sit around in that dinky area waiting for mobs to come to you, or wander out and stupidly try to lure them in, which takes more time. And the regeneration..... ONLY works with the biggest pyramid. You'd have so very few of these regen points that you're better off with potions ANYWAY, because dangerous situations where you're near enough to the beacon for it's regen effects to be USEFUL are going to be very rare. NONE of the buffs make any sense within that limited range. None of them.
So, give me a reason to use this. A use that cant be done easier with potions/enchantments. Because no matter how I look at this, I cannot see one.
Aye, I actually agree with this. The solution is not changing the cost.
The solution is changing what the thing DOES, and how it does it. Make the range bigger. MUCH bigger. If I'm within such a range where the beacon's light beam is in rendering distance, it should be giving me the buff. It's really that simple. And no vertical limit at all. THAT, I can see, potentially being worth the pyramid, depending on just what you want to do in the area. It still wouldnt be perfect.... but it'd be a hell of alot better than the screwed up gizmo it is now.
But, it's not at all the same.
If you are fighting a boss you can't fight him for awhile, then take a break and do something else. You have to keep fighting non-stop until the fight is finished. However, you can work towards building a pyramid over a certain period of time.
This is the whole problem with your "logic," if you can even call it that. The fact that you are unwilling to see this point is entirely why this debate is still going on and why you think that your ridiculous comparison is a fair and accurate one.
Because the beacon gives you effects that potions cannot. You can also get resistance from the pyramid, instead of from a golden apple. You can use enchantments with the pyramid as an added bonus. The effects will never run out and it will never degrade. Once you build the pyramid you never have to collect materials to get those effects ever again.
You can build it in your mine to mine faster with haste, you can build it near your mob spawners to quickly kill mobs and get xp. Build it in the Nether and slay zombie pigmen for gold and xp, kill endermen in the end, the enderdragon, etc. etc.
The question isn't "is it possible", the question is, is it worth it? What if we had to build a pyramid to the height limit for just a jump buff, would anyone do it? Very few would. There is a line that has to be drawn on how much things are worth.
The mining buff is an utter joke, how much are you really going to get in that small area?
Edit: does anyone know in the folder where the green border texture is for the beacon, I can't find it
Considering I'm talking to someone who is unwilling to see the (ridiculously obvious) problem of the MONSTROUS COST, that statement means very, very little. I note you still have yet to provide an example of this thing being actually practical and useful in such a way that it makes the 1500 ingots WORTH it, when that same time could be used to brew 200+ potions (or lots and lots of enchantments) that are stronger and provide the effects in an easier, more efficient way.
Not really. The ONLY effect that it gives you that cannot (yet) be gotten otherwise is the jump buff.... and that's IT. But why dont we examine these a bit in detail?
You know what else gives you resistance? Armor and enchantments. The resistance provided by the pyramid is weak, and pointless if you have enchanted diamond armor. Which, I note, takes REALLY SUPER ULTRA DRAMATICALLY LESS TIME AND RESOURCES TO MAKE THAN THE PYRAMID.
Wrong.
You're STILL missing the hyper-obvious problem that lots of people in this topic are seeing pretty much instantly. These "never wear off" effects ONLY WORK IN THE BEACON'S TINY RANGE. 40 blocks is barely anything. If you wanna use the battle enchantments? Well, guess what, you get to spend time LURING mobs into that range if they do not happen to spawn there. If you wanna use something like the jump boost to get over something? Better hope that that something just happens to be within that range, otherwise you get to waste pick durability (and lotsa time) MOVING the damn thing (and even then, why in the hell would you not just use a damn ladder or place a couple of quick blocks to get over the obstacle instead?) . Jump boost is an effect that COULD be useful for exploring..... too bad the pyramid's range is utterly worthless for this! Guess what potions and enchantments do though? WORK ANYWHERE. Particularly enchantments.... they're completely permanent until the tool/armor/sword/bow breaks. Armor in particular can give you so many defensive effects at once that you're basically invincible, considering that each piece of armor can be seperately enchanted. Enchantments and defense that work anywhere. If you're out exploring a forest and you run into trouble? Guess what? Beacon wont save you here, because you're outside of it's tiny range.
Also wrong.
Using this will DRAMATICALLY increase the time it takes to mine something. Why? Again..... tiny range. If you build it on the surface, for instance, you cannot dig any lower than 40 layers and still have the effect. You'd have to dig out a big area UNDERGROUND for the pyramid to sit, and then drill a hole to the surface, in order to drop the effect range lower into the ground. Guess what you COULD be doing instead of building or moving this thing? You could be ALREADY MINING. Know what else gives you "haste"? A LEVEL ONE EFFICIENCY ENCHANTMENT. And it's not hard at all to get level 4 Efficiency, which is fast to the point of being a little absurd. Items like that will always be faster. Why in the flying hell would I want to waste time with a pyramid when I could just bring those tools? I could just bring an efficiency 4 pick with me, and just start mining, right away. No wasting time crafting iron blocks and then placing iron blocks and then placing a pyramid and then moving the pyramid whenever my inevitably large strip-mine's size exceed's that of the limited range of the Beacon's effects. Haste, like Speed Boost, is utterly useless within a tiny range like that. If the thing had a *BIG* range, such as "if it renders the beam on Far draw distance at all, you get the effect", now THAT would be useful. It would allow for a MASSIVE strip mine, of any depth, within the large range of effect. But it doesnt work that way, now does it? Oh, hold on..... it DOES work that way if I simply use enchantments! Those are instantly compatible with strip-mines OR caves of ANY size!
Or you could.... you know.... fight them normally over the course of normal exploration (which also achieves side goals, such as EXPLORATION and FINDING ORES, and allows you to do things like mine coal, which gives you both coal AND XP). Or simply build a grinder, which most players are likely to prefer, due to the part where it doesnt cost 1500 ingots to do so. Instead, it usually costs a bit of a pickaxe and some stone maybe. Sometimes water is involved. While I'm not fond of grinders myself, there's no way in hell I'd waste the time getting the materials for and building a pyramid just to do the very same thing that grinders do, only SLOWER and LESS EFFICIENTLY. Oh, and you'd have to individually kill each mob seperately, using sword durability on each one. And all that slashing will use up Hunger Bar as you go, requiring the use of many food items. Grinders, however, can work WITHOUT YOU EVEN NEEDING TO MOVE. You just step away and do something else for 10 minutes, then you come back and toss ONE splash potion at the mob heap, killing ALL of them in a single blow; this is how the fall-damage grinders I'm familiar with work. And there's going to be all sorts of different designs for those.
Oh, and using the pyramid with it? Only works if you get a spawner that's high enough. If it's deep in the ground, you get to spend even MORE time digging out a spot and drilling a hole. Pointless. Grinders take time to build as well, but at least they dont have a batshit-insane cost, and are dramatically more efficient.
And yes. As you stated in bold, you can indeed work towards getting the pyramid over a period of time. But nobody has yet to provide even one honestly good, practical, efficient reason for doing this! This idea assumes that the player is mining out every freaking iron (or whatever) ore seam that they see, *and* doing lots.... and lots.... and lots.... and lots.... and lots.... of exploration. If I already have 4 stacks of iron, there's not too much reason to just keep mining more of it when I just dont need it yet. And maybe the player wants to spend time doing other, non-iron-mining related things. If they spend a bunch of time building a big mansion, or expanding a Nether Gate network, or hunting Nether mobs, or chopping down trees.... that's all time NOT spent gathering iron (or farming for gold/emerald). The longer you spend NOT doing that one thing, the longer it takes to produce the insane cost of the pyramid. The "get it over time" idea seriously will take a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE amount of time PER PYRAMID for many players, as most dont spend ALL of their time exploring areas full of the required ores.
No matter how you look at it or try to reason it out, there's one very, very simple fact here: The Beacon provides very, very little effect or practical use, when considering it's MASSIVE cost, particularly in comparison to all SORTS of other items, which give you a good value for the cost that they require. 1500 ingots for "not quite a potion"'s worth of power is NOT worth it. You can argue all you want, but that fact is not going to change. Particularly in a game where there's an absolutely stupid amount of ways to do different things in very efficient, sensible ways.
Exactly. See? This really isnt all that hard to understand.
EDIT:
Also, to Redstonevet90: I'm not going to argue with you any more on this topic. It's starting to get downright silly. I've made all of the points and feedback and stuff that I've wanted to on the topic of the Beacon block, and I've done so in extreme detail. Other forum goers have also chimed in repeatedly.
The blasted Beacon is unbalanced: That's the fact of it. If you still want to use the thing, great. Do so. If you want to continue to try to convince people that 1500 ingots is worth things like a 40 block speed boost, then go for it. But my points are made, and I'm going to move on to other topics, so dont expect responses if you quote me directly.
Not a bad use there. That's the kind of reasoning I'd prefer to see! If you're willing to specifically remodel your base to provide ways to make the effects useful, THEN it might have some use. It'd still be way, WAY too pricey for those effects (seriously, that's the simple fact of all of it), but still, that's not a bad use.... IF you already had all that iron to begin with.
That all still is very.... specific.... to your one base, though. For many players, the layout of their bases would make such effects just not make any sense; not to mention, that if the base is simply too BIG, the Pyramid wont work in the whole thing. And some players have seriously ENORMOUS structures! Or, like myself, they may have MULTIPLE bases in multiple locations, that they move to and from depending on what they're doing. Would need more giant pyramids for that (which is part of the problem I'm trying to point out)
Exactly. Granted, a metal pyramid that stretches to the sky would at least be absurdly impressive.
Aside from all of that though, I reiterate: I dont dislike the Beacon or the ideas behind it. I actually really LIKE the concepts behind this particular block. It's very creative and interesting! But that range simply NEEDS TO CHANGE for this thing to be worth it. That pretty much sums up the point of absolutely everything I've been trying to say all this time.
EDIT: Oops, got a double post going here. Not quite what I meant to do.
I can agree with your points. But one thing people need to remember is this is an absolute end game structure. I wouldnt have built the pyramid unless I was oozing with unused resources. Also, you have to plan it properly to get the most out of it like i did with my base. Its obviously not gonna be that useful for people who have multiple bases, like yourself. Just remember, its not a requirement to build so dont stress it too much. After you have played a world for a VERY long time you undoubtably have a huge amount of resources, and im glad they introduced a fun way to use them, even if it is inefficient. What I really want is more uses for the Nether Star, more reasons to fight the Wither.
Yup, that too.
It's not like players cant use the thing. Definitely not what I've been saying. If they REALLY want to use the giant pyramid, that's fine. Even me; when I eventually end up with that silly amount of iron, I may well build one for the hell of it, mostly just to clear inventory space in chests. It wont be all that great, and it sure as hell wont provide even remotely close to the proper value for the cost, but I can at least use it to give the glass bridge that I cross to enter my base a permanent speed boost.
But the thing's just so bloody imbalanced, and it's really a shame. It could be worth SO much more than it is if done right.
At the very least, I'll be using the tiny-pyramid version to mark important locations with the light beam.
I have a challenge for you, can you provide one practical use for the pyramid that can't be done more efficiently another way?
If you build it in your mine, you have to clear out an area to build it, then dig a hole for the light to shine through, then build the pyramid, then you can finally begin mining. Which would be all well and good, but whenever your mine moves outside of the 40 block radius, you have to dig another room, another hole, tear down the old pyramid, and re-build it, which will probably take much longer than the .1 second you save on each block with haste.
If you want to use it for an XP grinding purpose, you could just build an XP farm which lets you kill the mobs with one punch, which would take up a fraction of the time and resources put into the pyramid, hell you could build TWENTY XP grinders for a fraction of the resources and less time.
Seriously, the pyramid has no practical purpose that can't be done better by something else.
Its a long term investment, designed for late end game. If you have played a world as long as i have on my main one then you will easily have the resources to build 1-2 full pyramids. Also, just a note, technically, it is in fact more efficient in the long run than brewing the respective potions. But, this is over a long time. Its an option build, dont stress it so much.
Yes, it's optional, does that mean that it shouldn't be functional? The point isn't how difficult it is to build, it's that you barely get anything out of it.
And it really isn't as effective as potions, because of it's limited range. Yes, I can run faster and I never have to brew another swiftness potion... until I run 40 blocks away, rendering it totally useless. Sure, I could go stand by it to regenerate health, but what if I'm exploring a cave hundreds of meters away from my base?
We all know that the beacon needs better range, as stated above, but what could also solve the problem is to give it better effects. What if I could stand by the beacon and regenerate not only health, but hunger? What if standing by it repaired my tools and armor? What if the beacon's radius could prevent blocks from being destroyed by the Creepers or otherwise? What if it made crops grow twenty times faster? These sorts of things make the effort you have to go through worth it. They need to provide you with effects that potions can't* to be any useful. Better effects would just make the beacon's pitiful range worth it in the end.
Also, I noticed earlier that redstonevelvet made a post regarding using the beacon in the End. That's a great idea, except for the part where the Enderdragon destroys it by flying into it. Oops.
*Yes, I realize that potions can provide you with instant health and regeneration, and food can restore your hunger. I'm just saying that the beacon should be able to make all of these unnecessary in its range.
Also, I think it makes it sound better if we mention the full diameter of 81 instead of the 40 block radius, it makes it sound a little bigger. lol
On the point of keeping the good armor enchants and using a different buff, the other buffs are also fairly useless in that radius like everyone previously described. It is only useful when you cater to it and stay within that range.
Then pick a different buff?!?! There is a bunch to choose from.
-Will
The only time the 80 block total comes into play is if I make a pyramid halfway between 2 points, say my base and a farm. I could use speed to cut my travel time down by maybe a second. Is that really worth 1500 iron and a rather destructive boss fight? If I REALLY wanted to get a speed boost I could just set up a dispenser with splash potions of swiftness in it, which costs me next to nothing per trip. Sure you have to re-fill it and brew the potions (which are totally renewable except for glass, but how many times have you had a sand shortage. >_>), but it's SO MUCH CHEAPER it isn't even funny.
I think somebody used the example of a pizza earlier. If a pizza cost 1000 dollars and you had chests bursting with 100 dollar bills, would you buy it? Maybe, but what if there was another pizza shop that sold the same pizza (or maybe a better one, depending on the toppings [effects]) for 10 dollars? Which one would you buy then?
--Also, I'm sticking to using leather armor, since leather armor doesn't last very long, I put lv1 enchants on it. Since that's relatively low protection, that defense buff would be pretty nice. Adding this all up, the speed buff(going between plant farm<>house<>animal farm) and all the combat buffs (def/atk/regen defending the perimeter) would all be very useful to me.
--Why don't I wear better armor or use potions instead? Because I can dye the leather, iron armor makes the game too easy, and because whenever I start going on a potion fest I tend to use about 10 potions then stop bothering simply because I feel it's almost a waste of time. I mean sure, I'll use potions against wither, but I feel it's a waste of time always brewing speed/atk potions to kill things, I tend to skip the process after a while.
I also get 'elixir' syndrome. In rpg's I tend to stack up valuable items(potions) and always feel I need to save them for 'the right time' but then never use them.
I guess the beacon can be for people who are lazy in a way and use spare resources so they don't have to go through the brewing redundancy.