I already spend a lot of time in the Nether, but it's mostly traveling from one portal to the next, which is one of the main reasons that place was (originally) designed for. I guess I can just ignore this feature when it's rolled out, and keep all the nether wart in my worlds in the nether.
That's not what we want people to go the nether for! We'd rather you go there for an epic adventure with unspeakable horrors and terrifying monstrosities and murderous screams.
Well, It take a while for a few nether wart to reach maturity, which is why afking for your 2 or 3 plants to grow is kind of stupid. However, I made a 15x12 wart farm in the Nether and when I stand next to it, one wart reach maturity every 2 or 3 seconds. The bigger your farm, the faster you get warts and the less you wait for it. I did take me a while to build that though.
However, I don't have a problem with that since you still need soul sand to grow warts. This gives another use for one of the Nether material outside of the Nether. Instead of building one wart farm in the nether and going there to wait for your wart, you can now put some wart everywhere in the overworld you might new them. So we have Glowstone (which can be used for lamp and potion), Netherrack (burn continuously) and now soulsand is needed to grow wart. The more reasons there is to go seek ressources in the Nether and bring them to the overworld the better.
Now, what about some wierd property for endstone or the enderdragon egg ?
I was going to make I long detailed response, but it seems it has already been done by others.
The nether is an entire alternate dimension, and as of now, it has seven blocks! We need to be adding uses, not removing them.
That's disappointing. Instead of giving us more reasons to be in the Nether, Mojang takes away one of the few ones to build there. I'd rather have more reason to build in the nether than just add another room into my base.
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Very nice, I actually hate the nether, I only go for blaze rods, wart, and glowstone and I still have to go there for glowstone. Now I can add an extra room to my farm.
Quick question to people being happy due to all the afkin thing (which I totally understand) : what if other reasons to be in the nether /active/ were to be implemented ?
It isn't a bug. It was our original intention to keep you coming back to the nether to get them, but for most people this just meant afking for half an hour while your stuff grows as it didn't grow while you were in the overworld. That's not what we want people to go the nether for! We'd rather you go there for an epic adventure with ponies and rainbows and stuff.
I'm glad you were specific about this, but I still disagree with the move in terms of game design. My own assertion is that there is a scarcity of content for the Nether rather than a need to remove a feature from the Nether. There should be more exotic plants, creatures, and even block types for the Nether that would indicate its own kind of ecology as justification for why the pigmen actually seem to thrive there, what provides the food source for the Ghasts, Magma Cubes, and Blazes, and in general making the place something you would want to explore even though it has its own dangers.
At the moment, the Nether is largely a vast wasteland of Netherrack and Soul Sand punctuated by occasional hunks of gravel (which I even look forward to finding in my explorations of the Nether in spite of throwing the stuff away in the overworld). BTW, I especially love to build a castle of overworld materials in the Nether to make a "slice of heaven in Hell" with a stunning view of a lava ocean from my bedroom window. Well, what would be my bedroom if it wasn't for the fact you can't place beds there
For plants, there are only two things which "naturally" grow in the Nether: Netherwart and mushrooms. If there is room for a change, give more of a reason to farm stuff in the Nether or do something else there. At the moment, the Nether is the neglected step child of Minecraft.
Very nice, I actually hate the nether, I only go for blaze rods, wart, and glowstone and I still have to go there for glowstone. Now I can add an extra room to my farm.
Which proves my point above. I assume you also plan on building a cocoa production area on your farm as well? (a 1.3 change)
For myself, I love the Netherbrick in the fortresses and long for the day that some sort of fabrication method (not necessarily a crafting bench recipe) for those bricks was added to the game. *Something* made those fortresses, so what device or discovery was involved with their creation? Nether fortresses hint at some greater story of an ancient tribe that has long since vanished (and why the Blaze spawners still seem to be left behind as well).
Everyone who is complaining about this, is going about it all wrong. Tedium is not difficulty. If you want there to be more difficult challenges in the Nether, they shouldn't be posed by boring Nether wort farms. They should be posed by active threats, and while I understand the criticism of Mojang for failing to implement those threats, I don't think "keeping Nether wort in the Nether" is a valid solution.
Seriously, there is no danger in afking while a wart farm grows. I built some walls around mine, which immediately removes all threats, and I just stood there and watched tv/texted friends/did chores while I waited for it to grow. Periodically, I'd come back, harvest, and replant. There was no difficulty in this feature, just inconvenience.
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I've been a Minecraft player since Beta 1.7, still my favorite game!
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
The problem behind this change isn't that there's no difficulty in the Nether (although that is still a problem), it's that there's no content in the Nether, which is definitely the case. The majority of features added by Mojang either exist in the overworld naturally (villages, strongholds, new ores, mooshroom islands, etc) or are crafted with resources from the overworld (tripwires, enchanting tables, stone bricks, snow golems, iron golems, etc). The only thing of note in the Nether is the fortresses, which are purely used for reaching the End and potions. The only uses of the End are a joke of a boss battle and the potential for an efficient XP farm (which Mojang seems determined to break) and the game is completely playable without potions.
It isn't a bug. It was our original intention to keep you coming back to the nether to get them, but for most people this just meant afking for half an hour while your stuff grows as it didn't grow while you were in the overworld. That's not what we want people to go the nether for! We'd rather you go there for an epic adventure with ponies and rainbows and stuff.
I can see where this makes sense for people who find the nether sort of boring.
Ordinarily I am happy to see any change that will reduce the amount of grinding, AFKing, idling, or non-interactive play in Minecraft.
I personally disagree with overworld netherworts, but then again I'm usually the person on any server who goes to the Nether before I build a house.
Giving the Nether its unique flora and fauna made people want to explore it more and interact with it. It made settling in the Nether an attractive option for the player who wanted to corner the market on netherworts or blaze rods or magma creams or even just something to do when they are bored with the usual overworld mining and crafting.
Growing your netherworts on land returns the Nether to that non-interactive state it was in before blazes, forts, magma slimes, and netherworts existed. It used to be a place you went to ONCE and exploited for soulsand, netherrack, glowstone, and lava. Then you went home with as much loot as you could carry without getting killed. After that? Not much to do there.
What the Nether really needs, as a potential alternate world to the Overworld, is some additional, unique flora, fauna, materials, and physics properties to make growing netherworts not such a chore. Something for the player to interact with in the same chunks as his farm, that will occupy his time and skills and reward his stay in the Nether.
As it is now, I can see where one person on a server goes to the Nether once, and gathers a few netherworts, then comes back to the overworld and grows them at home for a tidy profit. Every other player can now simply buy them or steal a few stalks without ever going to the Nether at all. It is, simply put, boring.
It's the same problem servers currently have with melons. It seems they were originally meant to be special, a rare and unusual reward for players exploring abandoned mineshafts. But shortly after the first player actually does the legwork to find the seeds, it seems like every other player has suddenly too many melons. They become abundant, cheap, and quite boring/ordinary. The result: very few if any players after that first one, bother to explore abandoned mineshafts.
I guess as a player and an admin of different servers, it's hard to hear fellow players say "I'm bored" with all this new content and different dimensions to explore, tame, and bring to fruition. This just seems to take a little more of that away from the Nether and refocus it back on the overworld, where players are already saying "I'm bored".
Mind you, I would have liked to see some more unique flora, fauna, and materials/physics in the End as well, to encourage people to go there and try to build a permanent settlement. A few actually do that, but it's using existing Overworld seeds, saplings, and eggs; not unique and complementary materials, technologies, and farmables to the End. Frankly, that's pretty dull - and parallels what Nether life might be like if everything is now obtainable in the overworld.
edit: I am not talking about introducing creepers to the Nether or anything to make life unpredictably a hassle for players. The relative safety of an unlit room in the Nether is sort of what makes it unique - lighting up a Nether cavern or not, makes no difference to the magma cube or the angry pigman.
Not to mention that it won't actually change players' behaviour. It will make them even more likely to ignore the Nether as a whole, and just focus on their tiny crevice of hell by their portal in a cobble box, where they have moved the netherworts safely within reach of their gate back home. Add to that the prospect of bringing the farm to overworld and that destroys any point to going to the Nether a second time, whatsoever.
Well if Mojang are removing reasons to go to the nether, why not make Glowstone, Netherrack, Soul sand, netherwart, Netherbrick (+fence/stairs) available in the overworld, then completely remove the nether.
Now you're just being silly.
Aside from finding a nether fortress, you have the materials readily available to harvest any of those. And in the case of glowstone, it can be dangerous depending on where it is situated and the availability of low-hanging glowstone. Nether wart? You sit there. The end. That's it. You can't use bone meal on it, you can't go too far away from it.
You're not doing anything. It's a ridiculous keeping it as it is. It's like saying you have to wait in line in the DMV, just because you do. Depending how close the fortress is, I don't even build a farm. I take some netherrack, it in, and then go play another game like Skyrim for an hour or two.
While I'm all in favor of reforming the Nether to make it much more interesting, but keeping nether wart only growable in the Nether is not interesting. It's the dullest of dull. Not even standing in front of a mob grinder leveling up is as dull as waiting for nether wart to grow.
Is this a joke ? Like, a bad one ? Why do Mojang seem to want to make the game easier with each update ?
Currently, the only real "danger" in Minecraft is, when wandering in the nether you fear that a ghast shooting at you might hit some nearby pigmen hence making them aggro you... which can quickly become a nightmare ! And yes, the boss fight in the end is everything BUT dangerous, once you know how to deal with it.
But, back to the topic :
The nether is far from being exploited to its full potential. As of things are, we only need to go there to search for a Nether Fortress, "raid" it to kill a few blazes (brewing stand), find some nether wart and go back home...
However, why would the nether be that home, or let's say a "vacation" cottage ? I'm sure you could come up with some interesting ideas (ie : not overpowered like... hum, level cap at 30 + mining for exp, anyone ?). And I say YOU, Dinnerbone, as it seems that you're the only one who proved some creativity lately ( tripwire = brilliant ), while other look like they gave up on it a whiiiiile back.
I'm sorry if it seems harsh, but seeing a game with such potential loosing its charm due to a real lack of game design is a pain...
I've been playing MC for more than one and a half year now and without mods I would have quit after 6 months or less.
Which makes seems even more painful is that you probably all have at Mojang a ton of creativity that asks nothing but to express itself.
This company has earned tens of millions already. Maybe it's time for less community-leaded design and more brain-leaded one.
Because frankly, mature people aren't the most heard ones down here (and have probably left, hurt by repetitive facepalms).
Again, I don't intend to be mean, especially against you, Dinnerbone, for the reason stated above.
My only wish is that I (amongst other with the same point of view) can convince you to operate a 180 degree turn on that one...
ps : Sorry if my English is difficult to understand. Not my mother tongue.
See, I think that what Minecraft really needs is a new mob... Specifically a 1X1 flying, glowing, white cube that is invincible, spawns very rarely (and only in the dark, like all the over world mob) and shots little white balls at you that do about 1 damage (and would bypass armor). Then we would have a mob that we actually might run away from... Instead of just mauling it.
OT, I think that it is an OK addition, but I think that it would have been better to make the nether have a bit more content to keep a person in it
See, I think that what Minecraft really needs is a new mob... Specifically a 1X1 flying, glowing, white cube that is invincible, spawns very rarely (and only in the dark, like all the over world mob) and shots little white balls at you that do about 1 damage (and would bypass armor). Then we would have a mob that we actually might run away from... Instead of just mauling it.
Or, you know... Give Ghasts more health than a cow. =_=
It isn't a bug. It was our original intention to keep you coming back to the nether to get them, but for most people this just meant afking for half an hour while your stuff grows as it didn't grow while you were in the overworld. That's not what we want people to go the nether for! We'd rather you go there for an epic adventure with ponies and rainbows and stuff.
Then maybe you should add the content required for an epic adventure first, before stripping it of its existing content. The nether's one of the safest places in the game at the moment.
I hope this was a bug. Requiring a Netherwart farm in the Nether seemed like one sure way to force players into actually going into the Nether every once in awhile to do something other than hunting zombie pigmen or fighting Ghasts.
This is also something I don't see on any list of official changes to the game. That isn't the final word, but I do question if this was a good move.
yeah, thanks for forcing us to be somewhere we don't want to be. I find this change exactly suited to my taste, from the minute I found Nether-wort I figured it would grow anywhere as long as it was on soul sand.
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Villagers need to turn into zombies once killed by a zombie... March 24th 2012
I fixed that for you.
However, I don't have a problem with that since you still need soul sand to grow warts. This gives another use for one of the Nether material outside of the Nether. Instead of building one wart farm in the nether and going there to wait for your wart, you can now put some wart everywhere in the overworld you might new them. So we have Glowstone (which can be used for lamp and potion), Netherrack (burn continuously) and now soulsand is needed to grow wart. The more reasons there is to go seek ressources in the Nether and bring them to the overworld the better.
Now, what about some wierd property for endstone or the enderdragon egg ?
I was going to make I long detailed response, but it seems it has already been done by others.
The nether is an entire alternate dimension, and as of now, it has seven blocks! We need to be adding uses, not removing them.
That would be wonderful, of course.
I'm glad you were specific about this, but I still disagree with the move in terms of game design. My own assertion is that there is a scarcity of content for the Nether rather than a need to remove a feature from the Nether. There should be more exotic plants, creatures, and even block types for the Nether that would indicate its own kind of ecology as justification for why the pigmen actually seem to thrive there, what provides the food source for the Ghasts, Magma Cubes, and Blazes, and in general making the place something you would want to explore even though it has its own dangers.
At the moment, the Nether is largely a vast wasteland of Netherrack and Soul Sand punctuated by occasional hunks of gravel (which I even look forward to finding in my explorations of the Nether in spite of throwing the stuff away in the overworld). BTW, I especially love to build a castle of overworld materials in the Nether to make a "slice of heaven in Hell" with a stunning view of a lava ocean from my bedroom window. Well, what would be my bedroom if it wasn't for the fact you can't place beds there
For plants, there are only two things which "naturally" grow in the Nether: Netherwart and mushrooms. If there is room for a change, give more of a reason to farm stuff in the Nether or do something else there. At the moment, the Nether is the neglected step child of Minecraft.
Which proves my point above. I assume you also plan on building a cocoa production area on your farm as well? (a 1.3 change)
For myself, I love the Netherbrick in the fortresses and long for the day that some sort of fabrication method (not necessarily a crafting bench recipe) for those bricks was added to the game. *Something* made those fortresses, so what device or discovery was involved with their creation? Nether fortresses hint at some greater story of an ancient tribe that has long since vanished (and why the Blaze spawners still seem to be left behind as well).
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
Nether should be challenging, agree. That challenge should NOT come from trying to stay awake while essentially watching paint dry.
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
And this is the latest snapshot, right?
I can see where this makes sense for people who find the nether sort of boring.
Ordinarily I am happy to see any change that will reduce the amount of grinding, AFKing, idling, or non-interactive play in Minecraft.
I personally disagree with overworld netherworts, but then again I'm usually the person on any server who goes to the Nether before I build a house.
Giving the Nether its unique flora and fauna made people want to explore it more and interact with it. It made settling in the Nether an attractive option for the player who wanted to corner the market on netherworts or blaze rods or magma creams or even just something to do when they are bored with the usual overworld mining and crafting.
Growing your netherworts on land returns the Nether to that non-interactive state it was in before blazes, forts, magma slimes, and netherworts existed. It used to be a place you went to ONCE and exploited for soulsand, netherrack, glowstone, and lava. Then you went home with as much loot as you could carry without getting killed. After that? Not much to do there.
What the Nether really needs, as a potential alternate world to the Overworld, is some additional, unique flora, fauna, materials, and physics properties to make growing netherworts not such a chore. Something for the player to interact with in the same chunks as his farm, that will occupy his time and skills and reward his stay in the Nether.
As it is now, I can see where one person on a server goes to the Nether once, and gathers a few netherworts, then comes back to the overworld and grows them at home for a tidy profit. Every other player can now simply buy them or steal a few stalks without ever going to the Nether at all. It is, simply put, boring.
It's the same problem servers currently have with melons. It seems they were originally meant to be special, a rare and unusual reward for players exploring abandoned mineshafts. But shortly after the first player actually does the legwork to find the seeds, it seems like every other player has suddenly too many melons. They become abundant, cheap, and quite boring/ordinary. The result: very few if any players after that first one, bother to explore abandoned mineshafts.
I guess as a player and an admin of different servers, it's hard to hear fellow players say "I'm bored" with all this new content and different dimensions to explore, tame, and bring to fruition. This just seems to take a little more of that away from the Nether and refocus it back on the overworld, where players are already saying "I'm bored".
Mind you, I would have liked to see some more unique flora, fauna, and materials/physics in the End as well, to encourage people to go there and try to build a permanent settlement. A few actually do that, but it's using existing Overworld seeds, saplings, and eggs; not unique and complementary materials, technologies, and farmables to the End. Frankly, that's pretty dull - and parallels what Nether life might be like if everything is now obtainable in the overworld.
edit: I am not talking about introducing creepers to the Nether or anything to make life unpredictably a hassle for players. The relative safety of an unlit room in the Nether is sort of what makes it unique - lighting up a Nether cavern or not, makes no difference to the magma cube or the angry pigman.
Not to mention that it won't actually change players' behaviour. It will make them even more likely to ignore the Nether as a whole, and just focus on their tiny crevice of hell by their portal in a cobble box, where they have moved the netherworts safely within reach of their gate back home. Add to that the prospect of bringing the farm to overworld and that destroys any point to going to the Nether a second time, whatsoever.
Now you're just being silly.
Aside from finding a nether fortress, you have the materials readily available to harvest any of those. And in the case of glowstone, it can be dangerous depending on where it is situated and the availability of low-hanging glowstone. Nether wart? You sit there. The end. That's it. You can't use bone meal on it, you can't go too far away from it.
You're not doing anything. It's a ridiculous keeping it as it is. It's like saying you have to wait in line in the DMV, just because you do. Depending how close the fortress is, I don't even build a farm. I take some netherrack, it in, and then go play another game like Skyrim for an hour or two.
While I'm all in favor of reforming the Nether to make it much more interesting, but keeping nether wart only growable in the Nether is not interesting. It's the dullest of dull. Not even standing in front of a mob grinder leveling up is as dull as waiting for nether wart to grow.
It gets a result.
See, I think that what Minecraft really needs is a new mob... Specifically a 1X1 flying, glowing, white cube that is invincible, spawns very rarely (and only in the dark, like all the over world mob) and shots little white balls at you that do about 1 damage (and would bypass armor). Then we would have a mob that we actually might run away from... Instead of just mauling it.
OT, I think that it is an OK addition, but I think that it would have been better to make the nether have a bit more content to keep a person in it
Or, you know... Give Ghasts more health than a cow. =_=
Then maybe you should add the content required for an epic adventure first, before stripping it of its existing content. The nether's one of the safest places in the game at the moment.
yeah, thanks for forcing us to be somewhere we don't want to be. I find this change exactly suited to my taste, from the minute I found Nether-wort I figured it would grow anywhere as long as it was on soul sand.
That might be nice, but I was thinking of them for the over world