This enchanting stuff... wow no wonder you people love your xp grinders. I mean I got this diamond pick with like 3 unbreakable and 4 effeciency or something and that thing just tears through everything. This would have been great if... you know I actually killed the mobs for the xp. But what did I do to earn my 265 or so levels? I went mining. Coal mostly. Some redstone and some diamonds a little lapis.
The only reason I ever got high levels was in hopes to get Silk Touch and Fortune. Well I got that now too. But I don't feel like I earned it at all. I mean I got 2 picks with fortune and two picks with silk touch. Something like that. Still got 135 levels to go. Well ok I got a bit lucky I think.
So yeah. I feel like a big fat cheater. Good thing this is a snap shot... because there is no way in hell this should be the way it is once it's released.
Hell maybe just keep the current XP gain just make the high end stuff like... a few hundred levels?
Although I must admit. Getting exp from destroying spawners is kind of nice. I hate those pesky Cave spiders. lol
You guysdo know that silk touch doesn't get you exp while mining, you have to break the block or smelt it. Gotta love when people don't actually test the snapshot..
However, it seems as though fortune might give you more exp while mining because you get more drop.
Complaining about a nonexistent Silk Touch loophole makes you look foolish. If you're not going to test it yourself, at least bring up the issue as a question. Example: "Hey, wouldn't Silk Touch let you get nearly infinite XP, or did they figure out some way to prevent that?"
But yes, the XP awards are a bit high, IMO. I like the mechanic otherwise.
The amount of XP given upon the mining of various ores is definitely too high, though I wouldn't call the feeling cheating. I'm generally happy I won't need to use a plugin to substitute this any longer. All Jeb needs to do is balance the distribution of XP and then remove XP being dropped from monsters that aren't killed by players. This would complete the whole system in my eyes.
Yeah you don't get exp from mining ores. You have to smelt the stuff first.
then remove XP being dropped from monsters that aren't killed by players. This would complete the whole system in my eyes.
This could help. Because right now all you really need to do is get a hit or so in before they die and you get the exp. Before the changes that was fine. But now... again just makes it a tad to easy.
Also it's nice that it isn't a giant grind... but there should be some work involved involved in it. With mining it wouldn't be a big grind even with the way enchanting worked before this snapshot. This is the first update that I actually think this makes Minecraft much easier. Day 2 since I started the world over and I already got some nice picks.
Because we "spend" xp for the enchantments they are more of a currency system then actual XP. For this reason it should NOT be exponential. It'd be like working at a job and the first hour gives you $10 the second hour only gives you $5 and so on, the harder you work the less you earn.
Removing the exponential growth probably would have been enough, assuming they added the lvl 50 enchantment was ALWAYS available like the lvl 30 is now. Now they could restore the old peek values or at least raise the amount of XP required for each level.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
I agree with the OP. Too easy right now. Way, WAY too easy.
I keep repeating this, but: 7 levels of XP, from about 10 seconds of mining coal. That's what I got right away. SEVEN LEVELS. TEN SECONDS. Probably like, 10-12 coal blocks. In a system with a max level of 30. I cant imagine just what Jeb was thinking when putting this in like this, unless these really are just placeholder numbers until he gets it all figured out.
I dont like having to use grinders myself; THAT does feel like cheating, but with the previous system was the ONLY way to get high level stuff. Buuuuuuuut..... The current setup is just absurd.
It should take some time to gain ONE level.... not like a really stupid amount of time, I'm thinking, more around the amount of time that it took to gain one level in the previous system when you were currently at around.... level 16-ish. I would find that very acceptable. And then, they dont need to CURVE the XP at all. Just have it take a sane amount of time per level, dont have that time increase, since an XP curve only works if the XP being DROPPED also curves, which is what the problem was with the previous system.
I cant imagine just what Jeb was thinking when putting this in like this, unless these really are just placeholder numbers until he gets it all figured out.
Simple:
-Make it a bit more random to get enchants like fortune III, Sharpness V ect.
-He want to know if it too much random.
-Make levels easy to get on purpose in snapshot which is for testing purposes.
-People on reddit then put post like "I enchanted 20 picks and I got X picks with Y enchants and I got X picks with Z enchants."
-People on reddit say " Enchant Z is a bit rarer, but since level cap is 30, fair enough."
-Jeb/bukkit team collect easy user data via reddit threads.
-Balancing next snapshot.
Simple:
-Make it a bit more random to get enchants like fortune III, Sharpness V ect.
-He want to know if it too much random.
-Make levels easy to get on purpose in snapshot which is for testing purposes.
-People on reddit then put post like "I enchanted 20 picks and I got X picks with Y enchants and I got X picks with Z enchants."
-People on reddit say " Enchant Z is a bit rarer, but since level cap is 30, fair enough."
-Jeb/bukkit team collect easy user data via reddit threads.
-Balancing next snapshot.
Aye, definitely hoping you're correct on that count. I can see him doing that; that makes alot more sense. ...... I hope. Guess we gotta just wait and see what happens.
Experience may be a bit too easy to get, sure, but ultimately making it a bit more accessible just saves you time. Grinding in games isn't fun, it's tedious.
Because we "spend" xp for the enchantments they are more of a currency system then actual XP. For this reason it should NOT be exponential. It'd be like working at a job and the first hour gives you $10 the second hour only gives you $5 and so on, the harder you work the less you earn.
Glad someone else has pointed this out. I was under the impression I was in a total minority on this. Let me just say that I think the quantity of XP per gem drop/smelted ore collected was a bit excessive in the first snapshot that had them (12w22a?) -- I confess, though, I waited a few days before switching to 12w23b, and mostly regret it, since it didn't resolve any of the rendering issue much -- but going to this exponential process seems to be making the process needlessly back-and-forth, essential forcing people into a pattern of gameplay that I tend to find a bit annoying. To collect and use XP efficiently, I probably need to be going to the enchanting table after every 15 points accrue, except for those cases where I really, really want to accept the random risk of maybe getting a top-end 30 pt enchantment. There's absolutely no incentive for amassing larger numbers of XP under this scheme, especially outside of Peaceful mode (and I can kill myself even there given how much I tend to dip in the lava).
Granted, I'm also not hugely interested in building grinders to speed up the process, but this reversion seems to pretty much encourage that approach more than any other.
Think this way. The xp grinder, the real cheat imo, are nearly useless now...
Yeah, now I'm looking for an automated cobbleminer/stonesmelter. One person's "cheat" is another person's productivity enhancement.
Different players have different goals. I'm thrilled that XP is no longer exclusively earned from killing, and I can accept that some resources remain only collectable from hunting mobs. But if your focus is on building something up, minimizing the threat of mobs is part of the formula, so I think the rebalancing in principle was a great choice to make. 12w22a probably made collecting XP too much of an exponential thing, but when you consider that enchantments are almost totally random and the only use for XP is enchantments, it seems to me either the enchantments ought to be more controllable/selectable, or the XP generation ought to be a bit more forgiving.
Then again, I always like exponential growth in my games, but it almost always leads to memory leaks and stack overflows.
It's hard to say what the perfect balance is, Either it's too easy and it breaks the game, or it's too hard and it becomes a boring grind.
To me I think one of the problems is the way EXP is presented makes it too obvious you are getting massive levels quickly. What I think should be done is a whole scale back to where numbers of levels aren't even shown. Simply use the 18 EXP bars as a measurement. Naturally this means it would be capped (or the exp bar can change colors if you max out the green exp), and while this kind of "hides" the numbers, It would be less obvious that you were getting a "lot" of exp, and it would simply look normal.
Since the major problem is how high the number is.
So 18 EXP bars, maybe have it fill up three times = 54 level max cap.
Just my thought x3 But some people probably prefer numbers
Yeah you don't get exp from mining ores. You have to smelt the stuff first.
This could help. Because right now all you really need to do is get a hit or so in before they die and you get the exp. Before the changes that was fine. But now... again just makes it a tad to easy.
Also it's nice that it isn't a giant grind... but there should be some work involved involved in it. With mining it wouldn't be a big grind even with the way enchanting worked before this snapshot. This is the first update that I actually think this makes Minecraft much easier. Day 2 since I started the world over and I already got some nice picks.
Easiest way to fix mob grinders is to simply change the value so it only drops when most of the damage is done by the player. Like say if fall damage NEARLY kills the enemy and you kill by punching it you get nothing. As far as ores it should be limited to slightly rarer stuff like lapis/redstone giving some exp, and diamond or emerald giving a full bar regardless due to rarity. Or at least completely nerf coals rate.
In w24a, you mean? Yes, I haven't noticed any significant difference... earning XP becomes exponentially harder as you level up (which is how it is in the release version)
The difference preserved from 22a is the broadened set of actions that will generate XP orbs: smelting just about anything (food, cobble, clay, iron and gold ores) -- with XP orbs released when you take your stuff out of the furnace, and also immediately upon excavating those blocks that drop useful items in usable form (that is: redstone, coal, lapis lazuli, diamonds etc., but not iron or gold).
The only reason I ever got high levels was in hopes to get Silk Touch and Fortune. Well I got that now too. But I don't feel like I earned it at all. I mean I got 2 picks with fortune and two picks with silk touch. Something like that. Still got 135 levels to go. Well ok I got a bit lucky I think.
So yeah. I feel like a big fat cheater. Good thing this is a snap shot... because there is no way in hell this should be the way it is once it's released.
Hell maybe just keep the current XP gain just make the high end stuff like... a few hundred levels?
Although I must admit. Getting exp from destroying spawners is kind of nice. I hate those pesky Cave spiders. lol
The new enchantment system is pointless, in my opinion. :B
That really needs a fix.... or at least the xp from ores should be less, just enough to make it pòintless to mine it with silk touch pickaxe.
However, it seems as though fortune might give you more exp while mining because you get more drop.
But yes, the XP awards are a bit high, IMO. I like the mechanic otherwise.
This could help. Because right now all you really need to do is get a hit or so in before they die and you get the exp. Before the changes that was fine. But now... again just makes it a tad to easy.
Also it's nice that it isn't a giant grind... but there should be some work involved involved in it. With mining it wouldn't be a big grind even with the way enchanting worked before this snapshot. This is the first update that I actually think this makes Minecraft much easier. Day 2 since I started the world over and I already got some nice picks.
Enchanting is supposed to be the final tier, so I'm absolutely stoked that we no longer have to do this completely asinine grind.
Removing the exponential growth probably would have been enough, assuming they added the lvl 50 enchantment was ALWAYS available like the lvl 30 is now. Now they could restore the old peek values or at least raise the amount of XP required for each level.
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
I keep repeating this, but: 7 levels of XP, from about 10 seconds of mining coal. That's what I got right away. SEVEN LEVELS. TEN SECONDS. Probably like, 10-12 coal blocks. In a system with a max level of 30. I cant imagine just what Jeb was thinking when putting this in like this, unless these really are just placeholder numbers until he gets it all figured out.
I dont like having to use grinders myself; THAT does feel like cheating, but with the previous system was the ONLY way to get high level stuff. Buuuuuuuut..... The current setup is just absurd.
It should take some time to gain ONE level.... not like a really stupid amount of time, I'm thinking, more around the amount of time that it took to gain one level in the previous system when you were currently at around.... level 16-ish. I would find that very acceptable. And then, they dont need to CURVE the XP at all. Just have it take a sane amount of time per level, dont have that time increase, since an XP curve only works if the XP being DROPPED also curves, which is what the problem was with the previous system.
Simple:
-Make it a bit more random to get enchants like fortune III, Sharpness V ect.
-He want to know if it too much random.
-Make levels easy to get on purpose in snapshot which is for testing purposes.
-People on reddit then put post like "I enchanted 20 picks and I got X picks with Y enchants and I got X picks with Z enchants."
-People on reddit say " Enchant Z is a bit rarer, but since level cap is 30, fair enough."
-Jeb/bukkit team collect easy user data via reddit threads.
-Balancing next snapshot.
Aye, definitely hoping you're correct on that count. I can see him doing that; that makes alot more sense. ...... I hope. Guess we gotta just wait and see what happens.
Glad someone else has pointed this out. I was under the impression I was in a total minority on this. Let me just say that I think the quantity of XP per gem drop/smelted ore collected was a bit excessive in the first snapshot that had them (12w22a?) -- I confess, though, I waited a few days before switching to 12w23b, and mostly regret it, since it didn't resolve any of the rendering issue much -- but going to this exponential process seems to be making the process needlessly back-and-forth, essential forcing people into a pattern of gameplay that I tend to find a bit annoying. To collect and use XP efficiently, I probably need to be going to the enchanting table after every 15 points accrue, except for those cases where I really, really want to accept the random risk of maybe getting a top-end 30 pt enchantment. There's absolutely no incentive for amassing larger numbers of XP under this scheme, especially outside of Peaceful mode (and I can kill myself even there given how much I tend to dip in the lava).
Granted, I'm also not hugely interested in building grinders to speed up the process, but this reversion seems to pretty much encourage that approach more than any other.
Yeah, now I'm looking for an automated cobbleminer/stonesmelter. One person's "cheat" is another person's productivity enhancement.
Different players have different goals. I'm thrilled that XP is no longer exclusively earned from killing, and I can accept that some resources remain only collectable from hunting mobs. But if your focus is on building something up, minimizing the threat of mobs is part of the formula, so I think the rebalancing in principle was a great choice to make. 12w22a probably made collecting XP too much of an exponential thing, but when you consider that enchantments are almost totally random and the only use for XP is enchantments, it seems to me either the enchantments ought to be more controllable/selectable, or the XP generation ought to be a bit more forgiving.
Then again, I always like exponential growth in my games, but it almost always leads to memory leaks and stack overflows.
To me I think one of the problems is the way EXP is presented makes it too obvious you are getting massive levels quickly. What I think should be done is a whole scale back to where numbers of levels aren't even shown. Simply use the 18 EXP bars as a measurement. Naturally this means it would be capped (or the exp bar can change colors if you max out the green exp), and while this kind of "hides" the numbers, It would be less obvious that you were getting a "lot" of exp, and it would simply look normal.
Since the major problem is how high the number is.
So 18 EXP bars, maybe have it fill up three times = 54 level max cap.
Just my thought x3 But some people probably prefer numbers
Easiest way to fix mob grinders is to simply change the value so it only drops when most of the damage is done by the player. Like say if fall damage NEARLY kills the enemy and you kill by punching it you get nothing. As far as ores it should be limited to slightly rarer stuff like lapis/redstone giving some exp, and diamond or emerald giving a full bar regardless due to rarity. Or at least completely nerf coals rate.
In w24a, you mean? Yes, I haven't noticed any significant difference... earning XP becomes exponentially harder as you level up (which is how it is in the release version)
The difference preserved from 22a is the broadened set of actions that will generate XP orbs: smelting just about anything (food, cobble, clay, iron and gold ores) -- with XP orbs released when you take your stuff out of the furnace, and also immediately upon excavating those blocks that drop useful items in usable form (that is: redstone, coal, lapis lazuli, diamonds etc., but not iron or gold).