Actually, coal does not give that much xp, it's the fact that you only need 17 xp to get a level.
-For comparison, a blaze give 10 xp.
-A normal mob give 5 xp.
-The bottle of enchanting give 3-11 xp each.
-While a single block of ore give less xp than each of the above, but they come in veins.
The problem is that each of these give you level too fast because the amount of xp needed in order to level up is so very little.
EDIT: I read the other post and I agree that the older system was a chore. However I think we went to "It's to boring" to "It's Boring I have too much of the stuff"
I don't think IPostStuff realizes that enchanted items... Are ridiculously powerful.
There is absolutely nothing in the game that warrants any of the enchantments, besides those that are tailored for very specific situations (e.g. Feather Fall, Respiration, Silk Touch). Everything else is just overkill, because there are no challenges in the game that would ever necessitate "Protection IV" or "Sharpness V" or "Infinity I".
With that being said, why should that power be available to the player after a few coal veins?
As you wrote in your post, enchantments are an overkill that you don't really need. Having that in mind, why should there be a lot of pointless grind between you and your enchantments?
There shouldn't be a GRIND for them, because that would just be tedious. I agree with getting XP from tasks other than killing mobs, such as mining or smelting. However, the current numbers are ridiculously out of whack. Something that allows you to mow through mobs like they're butter, should be a special reward you receive OCCASIONALLY, not every few minutes. And I say every few minutes, because I just got ten levels for MINING A COAL VEIN.
then smelt 1-3 stacks of cobblestone again and again. (Once smelted, place the smoothstone on the ground and mine again)
Anyone who would take advantage of this earned that exp.
That's hours of pointless "busy work". you do realize that, right?
Better to go out an exploit the terrain than sit there in a 4x4x4 room smacking stone, smelting and replacing just to smack it again.
You missed the point. Mining and smelting is still a slower method of getting XP than mob trap method.
The mob trap I have in my world took me 4 hours to build at the start of the game I believe. It has over 1000 square meters of spawning space and gets me to lvl30 in about 2 minutes. I believe I will be able to enchant 20 items as opposed to your 10 in the same 40 minutes you spent caving.
The time and resources it takes to build one don't really matter since you only have to do it once. This also applies to enchanting arrays, but they still render "I got X xp at the start of the game" argument invalid.
As for smelting argument, yes you can smelt common stuff for XP I guess. But why waste time and resources when there are vastly superior methods such as mob farms or even simple mining? And on a flip side, why shouldn't this be a decent alternative if you are bored out of your mind from left mouse button-mashing?
Your whole reply basically boils down to coal giving too much XP because it is a common resource. As I wrote earlier, if anything, it may be the only thing in this system that may need a slight tweak.
I strongly suggest you read all of my previous posts in this thread as they (imho) express my point of view really well, and explain why I like this system so much.
Er....
....mob traps dont really count, as far as balancing this goes. No, seriously. They DO NOT COUNT.
The system needs to be balanced around so-called "normal" gameplay. Running around, fighting monsters sometimes, sometimes strip-mining or caving, sometimes building.... well, actual buildings. Minecraft being what it is, there will ALWAYS be cheap ways of getting silly amounts of stuff such as traps/grinders/whatever. There always have been. If I go use my grinder in my other world, with the current system, it's actually WAY faster than 30 levels in 2 minutes, because it was designed around 1: The previous system of taking forever to get to 50, and 2: my extreme impatience. It doesnt even require that I MOVE. Or attack. Stand in it for a short time, browse the web or something while it goes (and under the current system, even ONE minute is possibly enough), and then when I go back to the game.... throw a weaponized potion exactly once. Simple.
.....buuuuuuuut, just because *I* and some others can do that, doesnt whatsoever mean the system itself should be balanced around that fact. It'd be like saying that chickens need to breathe fire and have 2000 HP simply because people have found an easy way of mass-producing chicken meat via some sort of contraption or specific setup. Or like saying that it should just rain diamonds instead of water, because people have found super-efficient ways of getting them, so why bother having to get them, just have them fall out of the sky!
Balancing the game around ideas like that just doesnt work. It needs to be balanced under the assumption that the player will not be using grinders/traps. Because many of them WONT. Or some of them, like myself, have used them in the past..... but only because of how broke the system was, and didnt actually WANT to use them.
There shouldn't be a GRIND for them, because that would just be tedious. I agree with getting XP from tasks other than killing mobs, such as mining or smelting. However, the current numbers are ridiculously out of whack. Something that allows you to mow through mobs like they're butter, should be a special reward you receive OCCASIONALLY, not every few minutes. And I say every few minutes, because I just got ten levels for MINING A COAL VEIN.
This.
Enchantments are powerful. Really powerful. Even the low level ones are useful, and the HIGH level ones can be so strong that they're very nearly broken.
A full, level 30 enchantment of horrible shrieking laser doom is something that should be RELATIVELY rare during normal gameplay, unless you spend some time "saving up" and not using all of those levels for awhile. And no, I dont mean a grind; I mean just over the course of normal activities. I'd rather go into a cave for an hour or two, exploring/fighting, seeking out ores and items like I usually do, and then come out and have this feeling of "Hey, cool! I was at level 12 when I went in there, now I'm at 20!", rather than "Ok, got my enchantment table. Now all I need is 2 coal seams and half a creeper and I BECOME A GOD", which is how it feels now.
While smelting ores is balanced (it give 3 level for a stack) you can abuse this by smelting logs to get mainly charcoal (or just get coal, it's so common), then smelt 1-3 stacks of cobblestone again and again. (Once smelted, place the smoothstone on the ground and mine again)
Just need to get xp from smelting the ores and nothing more.
They could make it so you get XP just from mining. I believe it's possible for the game to detect if a block is natural or placed. They could make it so you only get XP from natural blocks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
They could make it so you get XP just from mining. I believe it's possible for the game to detect if a block is natural or placed. They could make it so you only get XP from natural blocks.
Or on the other way, just get xp when smelting iron and gold ore only.
Both work.
-For comparison, a blaze give 10 xp.
-A normal mob give 5 xp.
-The bottle of enchanting give 3-11 xp each.
-While a single block of ore give less xp than each of the above, but they come in veins.
The problem is that each of these give you level too fast because the amount of xp needed in order to level up is so very little.
EDIT: I read the other post and I agree that the older system was a chore. However I think we went to "It's to boring" to "It's Boring I have too much of the stuff"
There is absolutely nothing in the game that warrants any of the enchantments, besides those that are tailored for very specific situations (e.g. Feather Fall, Respiration, Silk Touch). Everything else is just overkill, because there are no challenges in the game that would ever necessitate "Protection IV" or "Sharpness V" or "Infinity I".
With that being said, why should that power be available to the player after a few coal veins?
There shouldn't be a GRIND for them, because that would just be tedious. I agree with getting XP from tasks other than killing mobs, such as mining or smelting. However, the current numbers are ridiculously out of whack. Something that allows you to mow through mobs like they're butter, should be a special reward you receive OCCASIONALLY, not every few minutes. And I say every few minutes, because I just got ten levels for MINING A COAL VEIN.
Anyone who would take advantage of this earned that exp.
That's hours of pointless "busy work". you do realize that, right?
Better to go out an exploit the terrain than sit there in a 4x4x4 room smacking stone, smelting and replacing just to smack it again.
This is GOING to get tweaked, so get your levels while they're hot.
Er....
....mob traps dont really count, as far as balancing this goes. No, seriously. They DO NOT COUNT.
The system needs to be balanced around so-called "normal" gameplay. Running around, fighting monsters sometimes, sometimes strip-mining or caving, sometimes building.... well, actual buildings. Minecraft being what it is, there will ALWAYS be cheap ways of getting silly amounts of stuff such as traps/grinders/whatever. There always have been. If I go use my grinder in my other world, with the current system, it's actually WAY faster than 30 levels in 2 minutes, because it was designed around 1: The previous system of taking forever to get to 50, and 2: my extreme impatience. It doesnt even require that I MOVE. Or attack. Stand in it for a short time, browse the web or something while it goes (and under the current system, even ONE minute is possibly enough), and then when I go back to the game.... throw a weaponized potion exactly once. Simple.
.....buuuuuuuut, just because *I* and some others can do that, doesnt whatsoever mean the system itself should be balanced around that fact. It'd be like saying that chickens need to breathe fire and have 2000 HP simply because people have found an easy way of mass-producing chicken meat via some sort of contraption or specific setup. Or like saying that it should just rain diamonds instead of water, because people have found super-efficient ways of getting them, so why bother having to get them, just have them fall out of the sky!
Balancing the game around ideas like that just doesnt work. It needs to be balanced under the assumption that the player will not be using grinders/traps. Because many of them WONT. Or some of them, like myself, have used them in the past..... but only because of how broke the system was, and didnt actually WANT to use them.
Also:
This.
Enchantments are powerful. Really powerful. Even the low level ones are useful, and the HIGH level ones can be so strong that they're very nearly broken.
A full, level 30 enchantment of horrible shrieking laser doom is something that should be RELATIVELY rare during normal gameplay, unless you spend some time "saving up" and not using all of those levels for awhile. And no, I dont mean a grind; I mean just over the course of normal activities. I'd rather go into a cave for an hour or two, exploring/fighting, seeking out ores and items like I usually do, and then come out and have this feeling of "Hey, cool! I was at level 12 when I went in there, now I'm at 20!", rather than "Ok, got my enchantment table. Now all I need is 2 coal seams and half a creeper and I BECOME A GOD", which is how it feels now.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
Or on the other way, just get xp when smelting iron and gold ore only.
Both work.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.