Since Villager trading was first announced earlier this week there was a firestorm of reactions. Some were positive and the others were critical and some downright hateful.
After spending some time with the Villagers in a remote area of the Desert I have learned that in a way trading can easily be abused. Let's admit it. Who isn't planning to kidnap the best NPC merchants and bringing them back to there base? Though the logistics of that might be a nightmare... so many rails!
Here is how it works for those who are unaware. Every villager is either buying or selling something. Diamond tools, iron weapons and armor, Leather armor, saddles, and food from bread to melons and cooked food. To name some of them. Everytime you trade with a villager you get a new trade available the next time you speak with the NPC. So far I have gotten about 5 or so different trades from a few villagers.
So don't out right count out the NPC selling shears for 3 emeralds. For all you know his next available thing could be a diamond pick... or maybe he will want 15 white wool for a 1 stupid emerald. Maybe they are all random... I haven't really noticed if there has been a patern.
Some of the items these villagers want can easily be obtained. Take wheat for example. So far the amount of wheat you can sell is about 21 per Emerald. I have seen white wool vary between 15 and 17 per emerald. But wheat is really renewable. So those with large farms or just a lot of bone meal can easily get enough to trade for that beautiful diamond axe some NPC is selling the first time around for 9 emeralds. Not sure if it's fixed or if I just got ripped off.
I have a small wheat farm back home but that was close to 500 or so blocks away. So i spent the night killing skeletons and harvesting wheat. It's actually quite a bit of work and it was surprisingly fun.
But here comes the too easy part. Big farms = lots of wheat. Lots of wheat = lots of easy Diamond Axes. Now luckily 189 wheat isn't something a new player will not have at the start of the game.
So I can definitely see the outcry about this being unbalanced. But if I have learned anything about the Minecraft community is that we are always looking for ways to exploit the system and when we find a way to exploit it... we assume even the newest of players will know this.
There is a bright side. So far that one lone NPC was the ONLY one I found that was selling a diamond tool right away. And again it took me 189 or so wheat to get it. On creative I did manage to find an NPC who was willing to trade a diamond pick for some emeralds. Not sure the amount. But that was only after a few trades.
So.
In my opinion I can definitely see how this could unbalanced. But my only real change to the current system is to make it so that diamond tools are NEVER the first thing a NPC will sell you and maybe bump up the cost slightly by 1 or 2 emeralds. of course 9 emeralds to a new player is actually quite a lot. 9 emeralds can also be a pain if you can't find a NPC that buys 21 wheat(so far one of the easier trades I have found aside from wool) per emerald. But this is diamond axe scenario is exactly what happened to me.
Ok I made no sense what so ever.
Depending on how you play the game and with a little luck... you can get diamond tools fairly easy. But if you are like me and don't build a massive sheep/wheat farm and decide to have fun and actually work for the stuff. Then it's fairly fun.
My advice is also to SEPERATE the villagers. Seriously. Them bastards run all over the place and trying to find the NPC you want can be a pain in the ass. You sprint over to one and say 'Hey are you... oh nevermind you want Ender eyes." Oh look another NPC... oh wait you want emeralds... oh hey you what do you want to buy? Ender eyes again... seriously where the frak is the guy who is buying wheat?!
Ok so I am rambling. i like it... but again I think the system could use a few tweaks. I would also like to see trade exclusive items. Things I can only get from the villagers.
Like I said a few days ago : Mojang has a habit of giving people what they ask for - but with a quirky twist. People wanted to ride the animals - which they can with a saddle - you just can't steer them like everyone expected to be able to do. We now have trading - but it's not like trading systems in other games, it's the "minecraft" way.
I initially got confused because I assumed that it was automatically a two-way trade. That is, I thought you could trade emeralds for object OR object for emeralds. But it's not. It's a one way trade, EITHER emeralds for object OR object for emeralds. Once I got that, it made sense!
Oh, and I got a villager who wanted 3 or 4 bread (can't remember, but it was a low low number) for one emerald. That's not much wheat!!
According to the wiki, villagers can have unlimited offers, BUT they can have a chance to offer an item they already offer, overriding it and adding nothing that time
The more times you trade, and the more stuff they offer, they more chance they have of offering something they already had.
Sorry but this doesn't clear anything up for me. Now I'm confused. Mind re-explaining?
He's mad because villager's ask for specific items to trade to or for, instead of a large list of items you can choose from to purchase or sell like other games.
Like, you can't just unload your junk items to villager's and expect emeralds unless they specifically want the junk - He wanted to be able to do that
To be honest, I was a bit let down when I learned about the trading system... I was really hoping for gold coins/ nuggets. Just so we can have a flipping use for them other than potions.
Also the fact that non-renewable resources are no longer... well, 'non-renewable'. Kinda takes the zing out of finding saddles in dungeons when you could just go to the local village and buy as many as you want.
But then again, it is only a snapshot. So things could change based on the community's opinion on it. So I'd give it a 3/5; Not great, but could be a lot worse.
(And the new gravel is awesome. Very happy about that. I know its not trading related... But its still awesome.)
Hello. Sorry - on re-reading what I wrote it doesn't entirely make sense. Let me try again...
I expected a two way trade. Say the Testificate has a picture of 20 chickens pointing to 1 emerald in the trading screen. What I thought this meant is that they would trade 20 chickens (from me) for 1 emerald (from them) OR 1 emerald (from me) for 20 chickens (from them). This is the two-way bit. All I had to do was put 20 chickens in the slot to get one emerald back OR put 1 emerald to get 20 chickens.
BUT this is not how it works. There is a specific trade, some buying some selling. Only one of the cases above applies for each trade. If they are "buying" chickens then you can give them 20 chickens and get one emerald, but if you have a bag full of emeralds you will go hungry. Another testificate might be selling chickens though - just have to find them. At least, that's my understanding of how it works at this point in time - I might have it wrong!! Sorry if I have laboured the point, but I stuffed it up so bad above I hope I am making up for it.
And I think there was some suggestion that I was "mad" about this system - which I am not in any way. I like it. We all just have to get used to it.
One thing is the idea that the more you trade with a particular testificate, the more options they give you is a good one. Now you have "invested" in that partiuclar one, you will seek them out, and protect them. They give you a "good deal" etc - or have that diamond pickaxe you want so bad. Adds a new twist the the gameplay. I'm not fond of side-scrolling options, I would like to see al trades in one screen, but - meh.
Another interesting point is that the different kinds of testificate trade different items.
Normal BrownRobe Villagers have quite random things from food to tools or armour.
The PurpleRobe priests are a bit creepy, they want ender eyes, glowstone, redstone or rotten flesh are ones I found.
The BlackApron blacksmiths do tools, ingots and even some good armour, like I found a guy selling chainmail.
The WhiteApron Merchants seem to mainly like coal and random stuff like the villagers.
The WhiteRobe Librarians like paper, books, bookshelves and compasses were the ones I found.
So really if you have killed a ton of zombies, try and find a priest as there is a chance he'll want the rotten flesh....wait what!?!?!?
The priest could also be selling exp potions as I have found
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If this is added to multiplayer it is gonna make the economy plugins mess up...
For example my server uses chestshops and essentialeconomy.
If the villagers trade for cheap then the players cant sell cheaper in their own shops, which would suck, and mess up the economy.
I think the purpose of villager trading is to allow people to play Minecraft any way they want, and still get all the toys. For example, if you want to exclusively be a miner you can still get food. If you want to exclusively be a farmer, you can still get diamond tools and armor. If you just want to search caves and fight monsters, you can still get everything. It allows players to specialize instead of having to do everything. It also provides a reward for making a giant highly efficient mechanized factory or farm, since all those items that previously were excessive now can be traded away.
This is a bit sad, since it makes many parts of Minecraft's gameplay optional. Part of the fun and mystique of the game was being alone (or with a few real life people) and having to figure out how to do everything yourself. Getting each new resource was a quest or an engineering challenge. Now it's just a trade away.
But letting people play they game the way they want to play it is worthwhile. This takes the focus of the game away from resource gathering and moves it more towards giving players free time to build.
I think the purpose of villager trading is to allow people to play Minecraft any way they want, and still get all the toys. For example, if you want to exclusively be a miner you can still get food. If you want to exclusively be a farmer, you can still get diamond tools and armor. If you just want to search caves and fight monsters, you can still get everything. It allows players to specialize instead of having to do everything. It also provides a reward for making a giant highly efficient mechanized factory or farm, since all those items that previously were excessive now can be traded away.
This is a bit sad, since it makes many parts of Minecraft's gameplay optional. Part of the fun and mystique of the game was being alone (or with a few real life people) and having to figure out how to do everything yourself. Getting each new resource was a quest or an engineering challenge. Now it's just a trade away.
But letting people play they game the way they want to play it is worthwhile. This takes the focus of the game away from resource gathering and moves it more towards giving players free time to build.
those who want free time to build are free to use creative. survival is for those players who enjoy resource gathering. for me, villager trading will just take the fun our of minecraft D:
i like the trading options as long as every thing is reasonable and the REASON THEY WANT ZOMBIE MEAT is zombies kill them they want revenge basicaly u kill them slim there population down and there happy to pay you pluss zombie meat is just ur proof that u did it so i like to sell them some to i hope they keep that option
and i built big pigman spawner (with mods =] ) and i get tons of zombie meat and some gold ill be hecka rich =]
A diamond axe really isn't much of a gain. Even if you are lucky enough to find a villager offering 1 emerald for 20 wheat (just taken from their fields) you're still having to find the village in the first place, try and keep track of which villager trades what, and go through the process of trading things just for a tool that lets you chop wood quicker. Even a diamond pickaxe isn't much of a gain in the grand scheme of things since it would just move you ahead about an hour or two of playing. Given the frequency of caves, coal, iron, and direct paths down to layer 10, diamond, even a casual player can usually get their first few pieces of diamond equipment within the first few hours if they really want to. And diamond equipment doesn't really mean much on its own since players would likely die, use it up, or just leave it in a chest for "special occasions".
Anyone who is complaining about balance really needs to play the game more often. The individual skills and luck of the player are really the only balancing point that exists. You can quite completely go through the game and defeat the enderdragon with little more than stone tools, a bow, leather armor, a few buckets and a handful of redstone (all of which easily made within the first day or obtainable in dungeons since alpha). Diamond, or even a house isn't needed.
After spending some time with the Villagers in a remote area of the Desert I have learned that in a way trading can easily be abused. Let's admit it. Who isn't planning to kidnap the best NPC merchants and bringing them back to there base? Though the logistics of that might be a nightmare... so many rails!
Here is how it works for those who are unaware. Every villager is either buying or selling something. Diamond tools, iron weapons and armor, Leather armor, saddles, and food from bread to melons and cooked food. To name some of them. Everytime you trade with a villager you get a new trade available the next time you speak with the NPC. So far I have gotten about 5 or so different trades from a few villagers.
So don't out right count out the NPC selling shears for 3 emeralds. For all you know his next available thing could be a diamond pick... or maybe he will want 15 white wool for a 1 stupid emerald. Maybe they are all random... I haven't really noticed if there has been a patern.
Some of the items these villagers want can easily be obtained. Take wheat for example. So far the amount of wheat you can sell is about 21 per Emerald. I have seen white wool vary between 15 and 17 per emerald. But wheat is really renewable. So those with large farms or just a lot of bone meal can easily get enough to trade for that beautiful diamond axe some NPC is selling the first time around for 9 emeralds. Not sure if it's fixed or if I just got ripped off.
I have a small wheat farm back home but that was close to 500 or so blocks away. So i spent the night killing skeletons and harvesting wheat. It's actually quite a bit of work and it was surprisingly fun.
But here comes the too easy part. Big farms = lots of wheat. Lots of wheat = lots of easy Diamond Axes. Now luckily 189 wheat isn't something a new player will not have at the start of the game.
So I can definitely see the outcry about this being unbalanced. But if I have learned anything about the Minecraft community is that we are always looking for ways to exploit the system and when we find a way to exploit it... we assume even the newest of players will know this.
There is a bright side. So far that one lone NPC was the ONLY one I found that was selling a diamond tool right away. And again it took me 189 or so wheat to get it. On creative I did manage to find an NPC who was willing to trade a diamond pick for some emeralds. Not sure the amount. But that was only after a few trades.
So.
In my opinion I can definitely see how this could unbalanced. But my only real change to the current system is to make it so that diamond tools are NEVER the first thing a NPC will sell you and maybe bump up the cost slightly by 1 or 2 emeralds. of course 9 emeralds to a new player is actually quite a lot. 9 emeralds can also be a pain if you can't find a NPC that buys 21 wheat(so far one of the easier trades I have found aside from wool) per emerald. But this is diamond axe scenario is exactly what happened to me.
Ok I made no sense what so ever.
Depending on how you play the game and with a little luck... you can get diamond tools fairly easy. But if you are like me and don't build a massive sheep/wheat farm and decide to have fun and actually work for the stuff. Then it's fairly fun.
My advice is also to SEPERATE the villagers. Seriously. Them bastards run all over the place and trying to find the NPC you want can be a pain in the ass. You sprint over to one and say 'Hey are you... oh nevermind you want Ender eyes." Oh look another NPC... oh wait you want emeralds... oh hey you what do you want to buy? Ender eyes again... seriously where the frak is the guy who is buying wheat?!
Ok so I am rambling. i like it... but again I think the system could use a few tweaks. I would also like to see trade exclusive items. Things I can only get from the villagers.
As is... it's not all that bad. Honestly.
OK I am done.
I initially got confused because I assumed that it was automatically a two-way trade. That is, I thought you could trade emeralds for object OR object for emeralds. But it's not. It's a one way trade, EITHER emeralds for object OR object for emeralds. Once I got that, it made sense!
Oh, and I got a villager who wanted 3 or 4 bread (can't remember, but it was a low low number) for one emerald. That's not much wheat!!
According to the wiki, villagers can have unlimited offers, BUT they can have a chance to offer an item they already offer, overriding it and adding nothing that time
The more times you trade, and the more stuff they offer, they more chance they have of offering something they already had.
He's mad because villager's ask for specific items to trade to or for, instead of a large list of items you can choose from to purchase or sell like other games.
Like, you can't just unload your junk items to villager's and expect emeralds unless they specifically want the junk - He wanted to be able to do that
Also the fact that non-renewable resources are no longer... well, 'non-renewable'. Kinda takes the zing out of finding saddles in dungeons when you could just go to the local village and buy as many as you want.
But then again, it is only a snapshot. So things could change based on the community's opinion on it. So I'd give it a 3/5; Not great, but could be a lot worse.
(And the new gravel is awesome. Very happy about that. I know its not trading related... But its still awesome.)
I expected a two way trade. Say the Testificate has a picture of 20 chickens pointing to 1 emerald in the trading screen. What I thought this meant is that they would trade 20 chickens (from me) for 1 emerald (from them) OR 1 emerald (from me) for 20 chickens (from them). This is the two-way bit. All I had to do was put 20 chickens in the slot to get one emerald back OR put 1 emerald to get 20 chickens.
BUT this is not how it works. There is a specific trade, some buying some selling. Only one of the cases above applies for each trade. If they are "buying" chickens then you can give them 20 chickens and get one emerald, but if you have a bag full of emeralds you will go hungry. Another testificate might be selling chickens though - just have to find them. At least, that's my understanding of how it works at this point in time - I might have it wrong!! Sorry if I have laboured the point, but I stuffed it up so bad above I hope I am making up for it.
And I think there was some suggestion that I was "mad" about this system - which I am not in any way. I like it. We all just have to get used to it.
One thing is the idea that the more you trade with a particular testificate, the more options they give you is a good one. Now you have "invested" in that partiuclar one, you will seek them out, and protect them. They give you a "good deal" etc - or have that diamond pickaxe you want so bad. Adds a new twist the the gameplay. I'm not fond of side-scrolling options, I would like to see al trades in one screen, but - meh.
The priest could also be selling exp potions as I have found
For example my server uses chestshops and essentialeconomy.
If the villagers trade for cheap then the players cant sell cheaper in their own shops, which would suck, and mess up the economy.
This is a bit sad, since it makes many parts of Minecraft's gameplay optional. Part of the fun and mystique of the game was being alone (or with a few real life people) and having to figure out how to do everything yourself. Getting each new resource was a quest or an engineering challenge. Now it's just a trade away.
But letting people play they game the way they want to play it is worthwhile. This takes the focus of the game away from resource gathering and moves it more towards giving players free time to build.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1251579-better-than-trading-moar-power11-18wip/#entry15265238
those who want free time to build are free to use creative. survival is for those players who enjoy resource gathering. for me, villager trading will just take the fun our of minecraft D:
and i built big pigman spawner (with mods =] ) and i get tons of zombie meat and some gold ill be hecka rich =]
pic of zombie meat and gold nuggets all fo me =]
http://www.mediafire...24602z1pkxfew2z
Anyone who is complaining about balance really needs to play the game more often. The individual skills and luck of the player are really the only balancing point that exists. You can quite completely go through the game and defeat the enderdragon with little more than stone tools, a bow, leather armor, a few buckets and a handful of redstone (all of which easily made within the first day or obtainable in dungeons since alpha). Diamond, or even a house isn't needed.