If the game is going to expand further by adding dynamics like trading and currency, that's great.
BUT...
It will NOT work as the game is right now. Everything can be obtained far too easliy to merit trading. If this kind of stuff is going to become vanilla. (Which I like the idea of it) The game needs to be spread out a bit. What I mean is...
The "Path", from start till endgame stuff is way, WAY too short for this kind of system. It needs to be expanded somehow and made longer while still keeping the game's feeling involved.
I'm most likely not explaining this as well as possible. But I'm sure some of you get the idea, if you can refine it, go ahead.
If nothing is changed, it will just become a "cool", but useless feature. "Hey SWEET I can buy an iron sword from this village, LOL doesn't matter I already have 300+ iron ingots"
Make sense?
I hope Jeb is thinking about these kind of issues.
Honestly Multiplayer could benifit SO MUCH from an expanded system. Especially in the RP side of the multiplayer world. Making shops and selling items would be alot more useful if half the items were not obtained within 30 minutes.
Anyway... I'm just worried is all.
Discuss.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
What is the benefit of it? Probably so that people can decide what things they want to make locally and what they want to trade for... instead of doing everything themselves.
For example, trading excess iron/wood/coal you might have for leather (books) instead of going through all the steps involved with breeding several dozen cows. Technically speaking, you'd probably be spending the same amount of time mining for those materials compared to; time fencing off an area, making a larger wheat farm, finding cows somewhere, leading those cows back to your fenced area, swearing profusely because you forgot a gate, having to chase down those cows again... then waiting to breed enough for the slaughter.
The idea has little to do with multiplayer, although it could probably offer some benefit by supplying a base currency for player to player or player to NPC trading. But rather it deals with giving the player some way of interacting with towns and NPCs, other than looting and killing.
I believe that the merit of trading in Minecraft would more be about, as said, trading excess/infinite materials for rarer, non-renewable ones. I think that chances are, most blocks/items will be buyable via trading, but the prices will obviously vary, so it's sorta . . . yeah, a slightly odd process of using lots of lesser things to get some bigger things.
Oh and this means that you can live exclusively above ground and still get ores and such.
Also, my god if this means that you can finally get bones/string on Peaceful . . . >_< I'VE WAITED SO LONG ;_;
Need more diamonds? Just explore further away and dig. There are only two things in the world which are actually of a limited quantity... Endstone and a dragon egg. Everything else can be gotten more of as more of the world generates... And don't try to tell me that any server has managed to fully mine out larger than a 100k x 100k area for materials before they switched maps as they would still have to be using a map from alpha and be populated with a few hundred dedicated miners to be logistically possible.
Yeah, I do think everything is too quick to get unless the villagers could sell you things like slimeballs, which I highly doubt. I guess you can see it as more bonus items if there is a so-called new ore and you can buy things once you come back from mining.
What are you suggesting, Locklear? You're kind of vague as to what could be done to expand this system.
What he's saying is that by the time you find a village and have things to trade, you usually have everything they could even offer. Everything is too accessible.
i think a lot of it depends on how the admins manage the economy. if you have ranks and residence for example - balance the economy by making tlots and ranks more expensive if items can be easily traded for by villagers. don't have your spawn/town near a villages and limit the warps, /sethomes. don't have an admin shop. make it a purely player-run economy.
have a mod which makes ores appear in large deposits like in real life, which can make it hard to find it because many chunks have no ores at all. This would be a good hold out till I find the mother lode and set up a mining operation there.
I'd love to be able to trade a stack of wheat for a stack of cobblestone. I prefer the sunshine to those dark and smelly caves. I wonder how much I can make off my melon patches?
I think each village should have a limited stock of money and items.
and abundant items on a village would be cheaper, and scarce ones would be more expensive.
Example: A village has plenty of iron on stock, so selling price will be 2 coins instead of the usual 3 (i don't know the prices, i'm just guessing), while it has very scarce amounts of coal, so a piece of coal will cost 2 coins instead of 1.
And the more we buy a certain item from a village, they will get scarce, so they will get more expensive and the system will be more dynamic and won't make the game too easy.
What he's saying is that by the time you find a village and have things to trade, you usually have everything they could even offer. Everything is too accessible.
Yes that is basically what I mean. The "tech tree" or whatever we call it is too short, Not in amount of items, but in how fast you get them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
I see your point. Hmmm... I see no easy solution to this. However, one thing to potentially make it more useful for the late-game would be purchasing experience, as experience is consumable and it takes more for each consecutive level, so you need a lot of it. This would cut down on the time spent at experience grinders, which I see as a good thing, as well as giving people a something to do with all their excess materials.
Another option would be to add items that only villagers can get you, or items that are extremely difficult to get through other means. I'm not sure what this would be, but I think that it must be used up quickly; otherwise, you would practically never trade with villagers.
One main issue I see is Iron. The long debated "too much Iron" issue. But I am not talking about that issue entirely. Iron is one step below diamond (the 2nd best material) Yet it can be obtained so quickly that other materials become rather useless.
Look at this.
Wood Stone Iron Gold Diamond
Gold doesn't really count as a normal tool material. So let's forget about it for a second. Ok? Now we have...
Wood Stone Iron Diamond
Wood is generally only used for the first 30 minutes or so...So let's cut it out as well for now, now we have...
Stone Iron Diamond
Stone has 132 uses, Iron has 251, and Diamond has 1562. So let's cut out diamond for a minute since it's super strong and out of the normal range.
Stone Iron
There you have it, that's it. People typically use Stone tools or Iron. What does that mean? I'm sure you're all asking by now. Well, 80% of the game is basically 2 material types. Wood, in the start is 10%, and Diamond at end game is 10%. But Stone and Iron are 40% each. That's it. Many other mining games have more than just 2 main materials. I'm not saying we need tons and tons of materials. It just seems out of scale that iron is fairly easy to get yet it's the 2nd best. It's not balanced.
Look at Terraria.
With that said, I'm not saying one game is flat out better than the other, or any kind of bollocks. What Terraria has, is better tier scaling.
This should help explain it. Green = Good, Red = Bad
+ Terraria - You can't get the 2nd best material in the game in the first hour of the game.
- Minecraft - One hour in, you have the 2nd best material in the game.
BUT...Terraria is not without faults...
- Terraria - Too many tier causes semi lower tiers become absolutely useless.
+ Minecraft - Only has 5 tiers, 4 normal ones. AKA Stone is never truly useless.
I hope this explains my thoughts better.
Basically, if minecraft is only going to have 5 (4) tiers of tools, they need to be spread out and scaled better.
Very true, but complaints and all of that stuff isn't going to get jeb/Notch to notice...
Plus, it's be quite a lot of content to implent, adding the tiers and stuff. Don't forget the whining of the community when they all don't like the change.
They could just go back to the old ore generation with different formations. I remember when I started in late alpha or early beta that it took me a long time to even make proper iron armor.
They could just go back to the old ore generation with different formations. I remember when I started in late alpha or early beta that it took me a long time to even make proper iron armor.
The ore generation is the same as late alpha/beta. Just the caves are easier to explore, and there's more ways to obtain ores, like from chests, so you find them more often as a result.
The ore generation is the same as late alpha/beta. Just the caves are easier to explore, and there's more ways to obtain ores, like from chests, so you find them more often as a result.
The frequency of generating ores was definitely raised though,
The frequency of generating ores was definitely raised though,
I'm not so sure about that. To me, it seems like it's the same. I get ores just as rarely when strip mining.
As I've said, I'm fairly sure that the bigger cave systems make ores more exposed, making it appear more common, when there's just more area for them to generate, which is why I've noticed no change during strip mining.
That, and the wiki doesn't mention it.
BUT...
It will NOT work as the game is right now. Everything can be obtained far too easliy to merit trading. If this kind of stuff is going to become vanilla. (Which I like the idea of it) The game needs to be spread out a bit. What I mean is...
The "Path", from start till endgame stuff is way, WAY too short for this kind of system. It needs to be expanded somehow and made longer while still keeping the game's feeling involved.
I'm most likely not explaining this as well as possible. But I'm sure some of you get the idea, if you can refine it, go ahead.
If nothing is changed, it will just become a "cool", but useless feature. "Hey SWEET I can buy an iron sword from this village, LOL doesn't matter I already have 300+ iron ingots"
Make sense?
I hope Jeb is thinking about these kind of issues.
Honestly Multiplayer could benifit SO MUCH from an expanded system. Especially in the RP side of the multiplayer world. Making shops and selling items would be alot more useful if half the items were not obtained within 30 minutes.
Anyway... I'm just worried is all.
Discuss.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
For example, trading excess iron/wood/coal you might have for leather (books) instead of going through all the steps involved with breeding several dozen cows. Technically speaking, you'd probably be spending the same amount of time mining for those materials compared to; time fencing off an area, making a larger wheat farm, finding cows somewhere, leading those cows back to your fenced area, swearing profusely because you forgot a gate, having to chase down those cows again... then waiting to breed enough for the slaughter.
The idea has little to do with multiplayer, although it could probably offer some benefit by supplying a base currency for player to player or player to NPC trading. But rather it deals with giving the player some way of interacting with towns and NPCs, other than looting and killing.
Oh and this means that you can live exclusively above ground and still get ores and such.
Also, my god if this means that you can finally get bones/string on Peaceful . . . >_< I'VE WAITED SO LONG ;_;
Which ones are those?
Need more diamonds? Just explore further away and dig. There are only two things in the world which are actually of a limited quantity... Endstone and a dragon egg. Everything else can be gotten more of as more of the world generates... And don't try to tell me that any server has managed to fully mine out larger than a 100k x 100k area for materials before they switched maps as they would still have to be using a map from alpha and be populated with a few hundred dedicated miners to be logistically possible.
All this is is options for different play styles.
and abundant items on a village would be cheaper, and scarce ones would be more expensive.
Example: A village has plenty of iron on stock, so selling price will be 2 coins instead of the usual 3 (i don't know the prices, i'm just guessing), while it has very scarce amounts of coal, so a piece of coal will cost 2 coins instead of 1.
And the more we buy a certain item from a village, they will get scarce, so they will get more expensive and the system will be more dynamic and won't make the game too easy.
Yes that is basically what I mean. The "tech tree" or whatever we call it is too short, Not in amount of items, but in how fast you get them.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Another option would be to add items that only villagers can get you, or items that are extremely difficult to get through other means. I'm not sure what this would be, but I think that it must be used up quickly; otherwise, you would practically never trade with villagers.
Look at this.
Wood
Stone
Iron
Gold
Diamond
Gold doesn't really count as a normal tool material. So let's forget about it for a second. Ok? Now we have...
Wood
Stone
Iron
Diamond
Wood is generally only used for the first 30 minutes or so...So let's cut it out as well for now, now we have...
Stone
Iron
Diamond
Stone has 132 uses, Iron has 251, and Diamond has 1562. So let's cut out diamond for a minute since it's super strong and out of the normal range.
Stone
Iron
There you have it, that's it. People typically use Stone tools or Iron. What does that mean? I'm sure you're all asking by now. Well, 80% of the game is basically 2 material types. Wood, in the start is 10%, and Diamond at end game is 10%. But Stone and Iron are 40% each. That's it. Many other mining games have more than just 2 main materials. I'm not saying we need tons and tons of materials. It just seems out of scale that iron is fairly easy to get yet it's the 2nd best. It's not balanced.
With that said, I'm not saying one game is flat out better than the other, or any kind of bollocks. What Terraria has, is better tier scaling.
This should help explain it. Green = Good, Red = Bad
+ Terraria - You can't get the 2nd best material in the game in the first hour of the game.
- Minecraft - One hour in, you have the 2nd best material in the game.
BUT...Terraria is not without faults...
- Terraria - Too many tier causes semi lower tiers become absolutely useless.
+ Minecraft - Only has 5 tiers, 4 normal ones. AKA Stone is never truly useless.
I hope this explains my thoughts better.
Basically, if minecraft is only going to have 5 (4) tiers of tools, they need to be spread out and scaled better.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Very true, but complaints and all of that stuff isn't going to get jeb/Notch to notice...
Plus, it's be quite a lot of content to implent, adding the tiers and stuff. Don't forget the whining of the community when they all don't like the change.
The frequency of generating ores was definitely raised though,
256 tall for tower junkies and sky bases.
256 deep, making diamond extremely hard to get too.
1 - 16 Diamonds
16 - 48 Redstone
48 - 80 Gold
128 - 192 Normal amount of Iron
192 to 256 Barely any iron.
Something like that, I'm sure Jeb could do better.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
As I've said, I'm fairly sure that the bigger cave systems make ores more exposed, making it appear more common, when there's just more area for them to generate, which is why I've noticed no change during strip mining.
That, and the wiki doesn't mention it.