Anone else find it funny that 100-50 people +'d a single post? I call shananagins.
It has become a long discussion over game rebalancing.
Books were made harder (leather requirement),
But then, enchanting were made easier (fewer bookshelves),
Soon after that, leather were made more useful (item frame) leading to potential shortage for book,
Yet at the same time, cows were made more portable (entities traveling portal).
This could go on for quite a while.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
iron crossbow with iron-tipped arrows, storage boat, animal-carrying boat, animal feeder, ridable baby enderdragon, gravity-falling lava/water source-entities, iron spikes on fences, clay-ceramic golems/armors/tools, diamond shears, iron-backed books, rotatable handheld map
From standard gameplay [books are only for the bookshelves that are required to reach max enchant lvl] point of view I really dont mind the current situation. It makes people consider farming an option.
But for people like me... Goddamn It will take quite some time to get that much leather. It seems I will have to give up on my library... Or postpone the project until I have farmed enough leather.
You can buy books and bookshelves from Villagers as well. I just built a massive sugarcane farm and wheat farm next to one, added some housing so more villagers spawn, and already have a full double chest of books.
I suppose I could farm cows for the leather as well, but the wheat/cane is easier to automate on a large scale and there are a lot of other useful items you can buy from villagers.
Look folks, the leather requirement is here, it's not going away, alternatives have been added. Can we please let this thread die already?
Pigs should not drop more pork chops but cows should drop more leather. Maybe cows should also drop 0-1 bone as well?
--Ocram
Are you suggesting cows drop bones instead of meat, or both? If cows were to drop 1 to 3 meat, 1 to 3 leather, and possibly a bone I can't imagine anyone would bother much with pigs then.
You only need 45 leather for a full bookshelf ring, which will allow you to do a lvl 30 enchantment (The new max level enchantment). 45 leather isn't *THAT* hard to get, and lvl 30 enchantments last forever.
Yes, that is true. However, think of how many cows you need to kill for that leather and how you're got a 33.33% chance of not getting any from a kill. Also, think of how many decorative uses leather has (like any bookshelf past the 15th). Should decorative blocks really have a somewhat unreliable drop?
Yes, that is true. However, think of how many cows you need to kill for that leather and how you're got a 33.33% chance of not getting any from a kill. Also, think of how many decorative uses leather has (like any bookshelf past the 15th). Should decorative blocks really have a somewhat unreliable drop?
Bookshelves serve a pratical purpose - enchanting
So, really it isn't a "decorative" block. You are just choosing to use it that way.
Colored wool is a decorative block because decoration is its only purpose.
Yes, bookshelves are more expensive than they used to be, but the only thing that this means is that only the wealthier players, or the player with good cow farms will be able to decorate their houses with bookshelves.
Wealth has nothing to do with it. Anyone can produce as many bookshelves as they have time for. The time requirement, however, has been upped dramatically (keeping in mind that bookshelves were already one of the more time-consuming blocks to construct); hence only players with heaps of time to waste will be able to decorate their houses with bookshelves.
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You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me
(keeping in mind that bookshelves were already one of the more time-consuming blocks to construct); hence only players with heaps of time to waste will be able to decorate their houses with bookshelves.
You also realize that you can do other things while your sugarcane is growing and cows are maturing right?
Or
You can make a automated sugarcane farm and a large cow farm very easily.
Or
If its SMP you can trade for it and buy it at player/admin shops.
Wealth has everything to do with it. One of the reasons why diamond is so expensive is because it takes time to get a lot of it.
You also realize that you can do other things while your sugarcane is growing and cows are maturing right?
Or
You can make a automated sugarcane farm and a large cow farm very easily.
Or
If its SMP you can trade for it and buy it at player/admin shops.
Thank you, right now in the SMP server i play in i have a very nice farm going, cows, pigs, wolfs, sugarcane, wheat, coco, pumpkins, melons, mushrooms, nether warts, and trees are all apart of it, getting leather isn't to hard for me nor is food/resources, heck i could cut my self off from the overworld and be completely fine. I'm glad they changed the recipe, it actually gives a use to leather in survival (other than dying it for things such as capture the wool or any other team based thing).
Making bookcases isn't anything like looking for diamonds. You have to wait for the trees to grow, wait for the reeds to grow... and now, for the wheat and cows to grow as well. Sure you can do other things while you wait (... so long as you stay near your farm chunks, because they won't update otherwise), but those things've got nothing to do with the production of bookcases other then the fact that you're burning time.
Yes, the generation and collection of the required materials does involve some input from the player. But it's simple repetition; harvest'n'replant, feed'n'kill. You're not "meeting challenges" to reach your goal, you're just performing the exact same tasks over and over until you meet your quota. It's grinding, pure and simple, and the only "difficulty" is in finding the extra time to do it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me
Making bookcases isn't anything like looking for diamonds. *snip*
But it's simple repetition; harvest'n'replant, feed'n'kill. You're not "meeting challenges" to reach your goal... *snip*
It's grinding, pure and simple, and the only "difficulty" is in finding the extra time to do it.
It's the exact same for mining diamonds, or collecting any materials in MC. None of it is difficullt or challenging, it's all repetitive. Mining for diamonds is very repetitive and time consuming.
So, grinding/repetition isn't a valid argument.
This is why I play PvP because it is the only thing about MC that isn't repetitive.
Just because I keep see this popping up, but leather had a use before books. It was used for armor. However, when passive mob spawning changed and the leather drop didn't, leather armor became more difficult to get then iron. So people stopped making it and that discrepancy was never addressed, but it did have a use.
It's the exact same for mining diamonds, or collecting any materials in MC. None of it is difficullt or challenging, it's all repetitive. Mining for diamonds is very repetitive and time consuming.
No it's not. You can hit caves and lava pockets while mining and your cave system is ever expanding. You can also choose to just go spelunking through the natural cave systems for more fighting and less digging.
Farming is done exact same place all the time, in exactly the same way. That's the nature of farming, and what makes it boring.
For those who don't like cows, yes this is your dream.
But even then, unless you have a very expansive cow farm, leather is very hard to obtain, especially because there is not a 100% chance of a cow dropping a peace of leather.
Making a 'proper' enchantement room is already hard enough, I personally don't think they should change the recipy.
Unless they implement cooking rotten flesh to give leather or somehing like that.
Please note that this is my personal oppinion and that arguing about it is pointless.
But suggestions and your oppinion is definitely encouraged! Thank you! xD
Making the other animals drop leather actually decreases the incentive to keep a variety of animals around. Making pigs drop leather just like cows means you get to have cows OR pigs, instead of cows AND pigs, which is less variety in players' farms.
That's actually false because pigs are rather useless when compared to cows no matter what because any drop they have cows also have due to the fact they don't have any unique drops. People who keep animals for drops will still need variety because of the items only those specific animals provide, and limiting leather to cows means players have to keep cows for both milk and leather, can completely ignore pigs and unless they use a lot of wool (colored or otherwise), can also ignore sheep. So, right now the most efficient farm for producing leather includes cows and excludes pigs, and if they change it, the most efficient farm includes cows, ignores pigs and might include sheep, but only if that player needs a lot of wool.
I personally just kill all the pigs that spawn on sight because....they are rather useless at the moment.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
When cows drop no leather, it seems needlessly cruel to render their deaths so useless.
Maybe some kind of slaughtering item could be added to the game, to increase the consistency/amount of farmable mob drops? A syringe that causes cows to drop no meat, but max leathers? Some kind of machete? Guillotine? I'm just riffing here...
In the process of killing a wild cow with a sword, I can see how the leather might be rendered unusable. Surely, then, we should have a more efficient option for effectively harvesting the domesticated cows we've worked so hard to raise?
That's actually false because pigs are rather useless when compared to cows no matter what because any drop they have cows also have due to the fact they don't have any unique drops. People who keep animals for drops will still need variety because of the items only those specific animals provide, and limiting leather to cows means players have to keep cows for both milk and leather, can completely ignore pigs and unless they use a lot of wool (colored or otherwise), can also ignore sheep. So, right now the most efficient farm for producing leather includes cows and excludes pigs, and if they change it, the most efficient farm includes cows, ignores pigs and might include sheep, but only if that player needs a lot of wool.
I personally just kill all the pigs that spawn on sight because....they are rather useless at the moment.
Which is why beef needs to get a nerf in hunger restoration. By making cows less useful in meat you properly give cows and pigs two completely different uses. By making pigs drop leather you make them basically the same thing as a cow, except still inferior, because you need a cow around for milk anyways.
Making bookcases isn't anything like looking for diamonds. You have to wait for the trees to grow, wait for the reeds to grow... and now, for the wheat and cows to grow as well. Sure you can do other things while you wait (... so long as you stay near your farm chunks, because they won't update otherwise), but those things've got nothing to do with the production of bookcases other then the fact that you're burning time.
Yes, the generation and collection of the required materials does involve some input from the player. But it's simple repetition; harvest'n'replant, feed'n'kill. You're not "meeting challenges" to reach your goal, you're just performing the exact same tasks over and over until you meet your quota. It's grinding, pure and simple, and the only "difficulty" is in finding the extra time to do it.
There are plenty of things you can do with the time you have - kill mobs, get bones from skeletons (to turn them into bonemeal for your trees and crops, speeding up the process AND allowing you to breed more animals in less time), mine (honestly, no one mentions that you can MINE in your spare time, ironic considering that this is MINEcraft we're discussing here), craft other useful things, and generally occupy yourself in some fashion. In SMP, for example, crops will grow regardless of your presence there, usually because another player will likely be on, and your cows and sugar cane will likely be fully grown as well.
Also, automatic wheat farming, since you gonna need to use that redstone you mined in your spare time SOMEHOW. Point is, there are many things you can do to accelerate the process of making things like bookshelves, with or without leather involved. The only thing that can't be sped up all too much out of everything you listed is the suger cane, and even with that you can just make more space for it. If anything, requiring leather (the book binding, I presume) lends it an extra use and gives players more incentive to obtain it.
It has become a long discussion over game rebalancing.
Books were made harder (leather requirement),
But then, enchanting were made easier (fewer bookshelves),
Soon after that, leather were made more useful (item frame) leading to potential shortage for book,
Yet at the same time, cows were made more portable (entities traveling portal).
This could go on for quite a while.
You can buy books and bookshelves from Villagers as well. I just built a massive sugarcane farm and wheat farm next to one, added some housing so more villagers spawn, and already have a full double chest of books.
I suppose I could farm cows for the leather as well, but the wheat/cane is easier to automate on a large scale and there are a lot of other useful items you can buy from villagers.
Look folks, the leather requirement is here, it's not going away, alternatives have been added. Can we please let this thread die already?
--Ocram
He's probably 12 or something. My brother does the same. If I kill a cow and he sees it he starts crying and I get grounded. BS!
You made my day, sir!
Are you suggesting cows drop bones instead of meat, or both? If cows were to drop 1 to 3 meat, 1 to 3 leather, and possibly a bone I can't imagine anyone would bother much with pigs then.
Yes, that is true. However, think of how many cows you need to kill for that leather and how you're got a 33.33% chance of not getting any from a kill. Also, think of how many decorative uses leather has (like any bookshelf past the 15th). Should decorative blocks really have a somewhat unreliable drop?
Bookshelves serve a pratical purpose - enchanting
So, really it isn't a "decorative" block. You are just choosing to use it that way.
Colored wool is a decorative block because decoration is its only purpose.
Yes, bookshelves are more expensive than they used to be, but the only thing that this means is that only the wealthier players, or the player with good cow farms will be able to decorate their houses with bookshelves.
Wealth has everything to do with it. One of the reasons why diamond is so expensive is because it takes time to get a lot of it.
You also realize that you can do other things while your sugarcane is growing and cows are maturing right?
Or
You can make a automated sugarcane farm and a large cow farm very easily.
Or
If its SMP you can trade for it and buy it at player/admin shops.
Yes, the generation and collection of the required materials does involve some input from the player. But it's simple repetition; harvest'n'replant, feed'n'kill. You're not "meeting challenges" to reach your goal, you're just performing the exact same tasks over and over until you meet your quota. It's grinding, pure and simple, and the only "difficulty" is in finding the extra time to do it.
It's the exact same for mining diamonds, or collecting any materials in MC. None of it is difficullt or challenging, it's all repetitive. Mining for diamonds is very repetitive and time consuming.
So, grinding/repetition isn't a valid argument.
This is why I play PvP because it is the only thing about MC that isn't repetitive.
Maybe in single player if you go really far away... which you shouldn't have to and I've never had this problem in SMP.
Farming is done exact same place all the time, in exactly the same way. That's the nature of farming, and what makes it boring.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
But even then, unless you have a very expansive cow farm, leather is very hard to obtain, especially because there is not a 100% chance of a cow dropping a peace of leather.
Making a 'proper' enchantement room is already hard enough, I personally don't think they should change the recipy.
Unless they implement cooking rotten flesh to give leather or somehing like that.
Please note that this is my personal oppinion and that arguing about it is pointless.
But suggestions and your oppinion is definitely encouraged! Thank you! xD
That's actually false because pigs are rather useless when compared to cows no matter what because any drop they have cows also have due to the fact they don't have any unique drops. People who keep animals for drops will still need variety because of the items only those specific animals provide, and limiting leather to cows means players have to keep cows for both milk and leather, can completely ignore pigs and unless they use a lot of wool (colored or otherwise), can also ignore sheep. So, right now the most efficient farm for producing leather includes cows and excludes pigs, and if they change it, the most efficient farm includes cows, ignores pigs and might include sheep, but only if that player needs a lot of wool.
I personally just kill all the pigs that spawn on sight because....they are rather useless at the moment.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
Maybe some kind of slaughtering item could be added to the game, to increase the consistency/amount of farmable mob drops? A syringe that causes cows to drop no meat, but max leathers? Some kind of machete? Guillotine? I'm just riffing here...
In the process of killing a wild cow with a sword, I can see how the leather might be rendered unusable. Surely, then, we should have a more efficient option for effectively harvesting the domesticated cows we've worked so hard to raise?
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
There are plenty of things you can do with the time you have - kill mobs, get bones from skeletons (to turn them into bonemeal for your trees and crops, speeding up the process AND allowing you to breed more animals in less time), mine (honestly, no one mentions that you can MINE in your spare time, ironic considering that this is MINEcraft we're discussing here), craft other useful things, and generally occupy yourself in some fashion. In SMP, for example, crops will grow regardless of your presence there, usually because another player will likely be on, and your cows and sugar cane will likely be fully grown as well.
Also, automatic wheat farming, since you gonna need to use that redstone you mined in your spare time SOMEHOW. Point is, there are many things you can do to accelerate the process of making things like bookshelves, with or without leather involved. The only thing that can't be sped up all too much out of everything you listed is the suger cane, and even with that you can just make more space for it. If anything, requiring leather (the book binding, I presume) lends it an extra use and gives players more incentive to obtain it.