1. One of the main points of survival is to add a challenge to building stuff! I don't see what people don't understand about this. Just read the development and philosophy section: http://www.minecraft.net/game
So creative mode is no fun, and how are you supposed to build massive castles, etc, with a limited number of blocks?
2. I know some of you want it as a trophy block, but wouldn't blaze rods serve the same function? In fact, blaze rods would serve as a harder-to-obtain trophies, since not only do you need to find a nether fortress, but you need to kill a enemy of fire with both long-range and close-range attacks! What, you want a placeable trophy? Make a brewing stand. It will serve both as a trophy and a functional block.
3. Adding a recipe for it will not remove any challenge! Trust me, I am making a renewable resources mod that aims to maintain challenge level, and with the exception of clay, every item maintains it's challenge (sometimes even more challenging). To the main point, it's possible to add a challenging recipe that makes sense for it.
4. Many of you say, "Nether fortresses have so many bricks! Just harvest them!" But for some people, that would be equivilant to destroying a historical site. Who wants to destroy a valuable mark of the past for your own selfish needs?
5. For those of you who say "get a mod," people shouldn't have to download something that has a possibility of ruining their game just to finish a building project.
Except for the fact that you wish for a crafting process that would require some effort and not just a simple "cook some Netherrack", I can't see any of these points as any convincing arguments. They are all your opinions more than anything else. Just as I have my opinion that for some blocks we should be required to seek out the source, or sources. The Netherbrick can really be found in infinite quantities.
A recipe could be a nice change if it means a balanced choice between spending time gathering the materials for the crafting process and the effort needed to seek out a Nether fortress.
Instead of replying to even more posts, I will list all my arguments and counterarguments in support of a nether brick recipe here.
1. One of the main points of survival is to add a challenge to building stuff! I don't see what people don't understand about this. Just read the development and philosophy section: http://www.minecraft.net/game
So creative mode is no fun, and how are you supposed to build massive castles, etc, with a limited number of blocks?
2. I know some of you want it as a trophy block, but wouldn't blaze rods serve the same function? In fact, blaze rods would serve as a harder-to-obtain trophies, since not only do you need to find a nether fortress, but you need to kill a enemy of fire with both long-range and close-range attacks! What, you want a placeable trophy? Make a brewing stand. It will serve both as a trophy and a functional block.
3. Adding a recipe for it will not remove any challenge! Trust me, I am making a renewable resources mod that aims to maintain challenge level, and with the exception of clay, every item maintains it's challenge (sometimes even more challenging). To the main point, it's possible to add a challenging recipe that makes sense for it.
4. Many of you say, "Nether fortresses have so many bricks! Just harvest them!" But for some people, that would be equivilant to destroying a historical site. Who wants to destroy a valuable mark of the past for your own selfish needs?
5. For those of you who say "get a mod," people shouldn't have to download something that has a possibility of ruining their game just to finish a building project.
There are some arguments and counterarguments that I am forgetting, but I believe this destroys almost all arguments against a nether brick recipe.
Here's my counters toward your arguments (when I can):
1. Again, would adding a recipe remove some of the challenge to gathering resources in survival? Not that there is much of a challenge, but most of the ideas involve Netherack which is stupidly common in the Nether. Being able to only obtain the blocks by mining them from pre-determined but infinitely numbered structures that contain some of the most annoying and difficult monsters in the game is a challenge. More challenging than gathering Netherrack and smelting then crafting or what ever recipe is used.
2. Blaze rods are farmable though. Build a cobble stone room around the spawner and a small room attached for yourself and you can farm the **** out of Blazes. No difficulty really. Nether strongholds require travel (especially when you're done with one), lava, and other Nether mobs. It is more difficult to do, hence why people view it as a trophy. Basically, it requires more effort than simple mining.
3. Where is the evidence for this? All recipe suggestions in this thread have required Netherrack to be smelted then crafted into bricks or just crafted into bricks. Netherrack is ridiculously easy to mine with even a stone pick axe. How would you create a recipe that maintains the difficulty of surviving numerous mobs, lava, and mining that it currently has? I mean, hurray for your mod and all but until I see it and try it I won't be convinced that the difficulty is maintained.
4. I would be perfectly willing to destroy a Nether fortress/stronghold/[insert official name here] for the resources. If some people don't want to mine them then fine. They made a decision to not do what is necessary to get the materials they want for construction. It is a choice and like in real life and most (if not all) video games, choices have consequences and they'll have to deal with it.
5. Of course they shouldn't need a mod. They just need to go and get their resources. They don't need the mod, they can get it themselves. However, one should note that effort to obtain resources should be one of the first things considered when starting a project. If you don't want to put in the effort to obtain a resource to complete your build well, you made the decision to use that material. You could have chosen another one, another game mode, or another project.
I think these counters warrant a response since they poke holes in your argument destroying points. Also, I think it is important to note that I'd like to see a recipe for Netherbricks but I won't lose any sleep we don't get one. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.
Nether Fortress is infinite
Just like diamond ore
and the resource on the Earth
You want to build your home?
Break other guys' home and collect their bricks!
Oh COME ON!
Nether is HELL and it's supposed to be full of hate, pain and violence
Here's my counters toward your arguments (when I can):
1. Again, would adding a recipe remove some of the challenge to gathering resources in survival? Not that there is much of a challenge, but most of the ideas involve Netherack which is stupidly common in the Nether. Being able to only obtain the blocks by mining them from pre-determined but infinitely numbered structures that contain some of the most annoying and difficult monsters in the game is a challenge. More challenging than gathering Netherrack and smelting then crafting or what ever recipe is used.
And, to be frank, the reason why Netherrack, this stupidly common block, is the preferred choice when it comes to thinking about a possible crafting recipe is because it is so fricking common and serves no other purpose than creating infinite fireplaces, while general Nether mining/exploration causes it to obscenely build up from just a short expedition in the Nether. To be honest, it would be really nice to be able to craft Netherrack *somehow* into Nether Brick, as it would give a good use to this rather useless, near-purposeless block and empty out the several chests full that people seem to accumulate rather quickly.
And really, Blaze spawners are the only *challenging* part of the Nether fortresses, and that is only if you decided to forgo making even one fire protection potion. All the rest is simple torching.
2. Blaze rods are farmable though. Build a cobble stone room around the spawner and a small room attached for yourself and you can farm the **** out of Blazes. No difficulty really. Nether strongholds require travel (especially when you're done with one), lava, and other Nether mobs. It is more difficult to do, hence why people view it as a trophy. Basically, it requires more effort than simple mining.
If by "more difficult" you mean only marginally so unless you aggro the limitless Zombie Pigmen that spawn in the narrow halls of the Nether Fortresses, or decide to tackle a Blaze spawner which has "No difficulty, really".
Seriously, which is harder:
Placing Torches
Mining Netherrack
It's a real toss-up when it comes to which is more difficult.
3. Where is the evidence for this? All recipe suggestions in this thread have required Netherrack to be smelted then crafted into bricks or just crafted into bricks. Netherrack is ridiculously easy to mine with even a stone pick axe. How would you create a recipe that maintains the difficulty of surviving numerous mobs, lava, and mining that it currently has? I mean, hurray for your mod and all but until I see it and try it I won't be convinced that the difficulty is maintained.
Not saying you would want my opinion on the matter, but as I said prior, requiring 4-9 stacks of Netherrack (with the possibility of other ingredients) per stack of Nether Brick would be plenty annoying in and of itself to keep it a choice between mining the brick itself or making it.
And no, mining Nether Brick is not as hard as you make it sound.
4. I would be perfectly willing to destroy a Nether fortress/stronghold/[insert official name here] for the resources. If some people don't want to mine them then fine. They made a decision to not do what is necessary to get the materials they want for construction. It is a choice and like in real life and most (if not all) video games, choices have consequences and they'll have to deal with it.
This is Minecraft, not real life. There should always be more than one way to obtain blocks because the creative aspect of Minecraft is the defining aspect of Minecraft, not anything else.
5. Of course they shouldn't need a mod. They just need to go and get their resources. They don't need the mod, they can get it themselves. However, one should note that effort to obtain resources should be one of the first things considered when starting a project. If you don't want to put in the effort to obtain a resource to complete your build well, you made the decision to use that material. You could have chosen another one, another game mode, or another project.
Not going to disagree here. Though, I will say that adding alternative ways to obtain these blocks will make it so that actually building with them is not going to end up being a pain on your computer/server due to creating more chunks to look for them.
I think these counters warrant a response since they poke holes in your argument destroying points. Also, I think it is important to note that I'd like to see a recipe for Netherbricks but I won't lose any sleep we don't get one. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.
Too bad. Deal with. If you don't want to download a mod, that your deal. You can always use creative mode. Get the blocks, then use a tool to switch back to survival. Nether bricks serve no purpose in SURVIVAL mode or than decorations. If you want to build something build it in creative mode. Like I said, you can just destroy the brick.
Nether brick has a ridiculous explosive resistance. Like if you set TNT right by a Nether Brick wall, only 1-2 blocks will be perma-destroyed, and maybe 2 more will be turned into drops. Great for creeper-proofing a compound.
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I've been a Minecraft player since Beta 1.7, still my favorite game!
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
I don't think that nether bricks are that rare. Every time that I have gone to the nether there has been a nearby nether fortress. Once I accidentally portalled into a fortress. For me, the biggest worry of the nether is getting lost and losing my portal with no obsidian to return (100% serious).
Nether brick has a ridiculous explosive resistance. Like if you set TNT right by a Nether Brick wall, only 1-2 blocks will be perma-destroyed, and maybe 2 more will be turned into drops. Great for creeper-proofing a compound.
The blast resistance of nether brick is the same as cobble, stone, ore blocks, all slabs, and even iron bars. All of the materials with a blast resistance of 30 are just as explosion-resistant. Also, end stone, water, lava, obsidian, bedrock, and an enchantment table ALL are more blast resistant.
Those against adding it, does adding a crafting recipe effect you in any single way? No, it will not change the way you play the game, nothing will be forced on you. If you don't want a recipe you don't have to use it. You can rape an pillage nether fortresses all you like and post signs that say you did just such if you want a trophy so bad.
Those for adding it, does adding a crafting recipe effect you? Yes. You will be able to craft as much nether brick as you need to build. The nether already needs more content and reason to stay there. Adding the ability to refine netherrack and make tools gives us that.
Those against adding it, does adding a crafting recipie effect you in any single way? No, it will not change the way you play the game, nothing will be forced on you. If you don't want a recipie you don't have to use it. You can rape an pillage nether fortresses all you like and post signs that say you did just such if you want a trophy so bad.
Those for adding it, does adding a crafting recipie effect you? Yes. You will be able to craft as much nether brick as you need to build. The nether already needs more content and reason to stay there. Adding the ability to refine netherrack and make tools gives us that.
Thank you. the vast majority of people who play minecraft have no idea how an open ended, emergent gameplay videogame works. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it, and just because it isn't meant to be there doesn't mean you can't make it yourself.
Acually, the Nether has a end to it. So the nether fortress is finite. But anyway, stronghold brick doesn't have a recipe, and it's only 3 per world. You want a recipe for that too?
Instead of replying to even more posts, I will list all my arguments and counterarguments in support of a nether brick recipe here.
1. One of the main points of survival is to add a challenge to building stuff! I don't see what people don't understand about this. Just read the development and philosophy section: http://www.minecraft.net/game
So creative mode is no fun, and how are you supposed to build massive castles, etc, with a limited number of blocks?
2. I know some of you want it as a trophy block, but wouldn't blaze rods serve the same function? In fact, blaze rods would serve as a harder-to-obtain trophies, since not only do you need to find a nether fortress, but you need to kill a enemy of fire with both long-range and close-range attacks! What, you want a placeable trophy? Make a brewing stand. It will serve both as a trophy and a functional block.
3. Adding a recipe for it will not remove any challenge! Trust me, I am making a renewable resources mod that aims to maintain challenge level, and with the exception of clay, every item maintains it's challenge (sometimes even more challenging). To the main point, it's possible to add a challenging recipe that makes sense for it. For example, the recipe could require blaze rods, which means you'll have to find a nether fortress anyways.
4. Many of you say, "Nether fortresses have so many bricks! Just harvest them!" But for some people, that would be equivilant to destroying a historical site. Who wants to destroy a valuable mark of the past for your own selfish needs?
5. For those of you who say "get a mod," people shouldn't have to download something that has a possibility of ruining their game just to finish a building project.
6. No one would force you to use the nether brick recipe. So what do you have against it?
There are some arguments and counterarguments that I am forgetting, but I believe this destroys almost all arguments against a nether brick recipe.
Too bad. Deal with. If you don't want to download a mod, that your deal. You can always use creative mode. Get the blocks, then use a tool to switch back to survival. Nether bricks serve no purpose in SURVIVAL mode or than decorations. If you want to build something build it in creative mode. Like I said, you can just destroy the brick.
Too bad.Not everything can go your way.Thats like saying that you don't want to destroy a dungeon for
it's material but you want a way to get the special item there.Just go search, it isn't like it's far anyway.
Read point 4. Dungeons are just rectangular prisms; nether fortresses are towering, complex structures.
Here's my counters toward your arguments (when I can):
1. Again, would adding a recipe remove some of the challenge to gathering resources in survival? Not that there is much of a challenge, but most of the ideas involve Netherack which is stupidly common in the Nether. Being able to only obtain the blocks by mining them from pre-determined but infinitely numbered structures that contain some of the most annoying and difficult monsters in the game is a challenge. More challenging than gathering Netherrack and smelting then crafting or what ever recipe is used. What does this have to do with survival and creative modes?
2. Blaze rods are farmable though. Build a cobble stone room around the spawner and a small room attached for yourself and you can farm the **** out of Blazes. No difficulty really. Nether strongholds require travel (especially when you're done with one), lava, and other Nether mobs. It is more difficult to do, hence why people view it as a trophy. Basically, it requires more effort than simple mining. You need to find a nether fortress before you find blaze rods. They only spawn in nether fortresses! Looking for a blaze spawner then attacking them is much harder than simply mining blocks. You're farm idea might work, until a blaze throws a fireball at you.
3. Where is the evidence for this? All recipe suggestions in this thread have required Netherrack to be smelted then crafted into bricks or just crafted into bricks. Netherrack is ridiculously easy to mine with even a stone pick axe. How would you create a recipe that maintains the difficulty of surviving numerous mobs, lava, and mining that it currently has? I mean, hurray for your mod and all but until I see it and try it I won't be convinced that the difficulty is maintained. Read my newly-edited third point. It will require blaze rods. They would be much harder than mining nether bricks.
4. I would be perfectly willing to destroy a Nether fortress/stronghold/[insert official name here] for the resources. If some people don't want to mine them then fine. They made a decision to not do what is necessary to get the materials they want for construction. It is a choice and like in real life and most (if not all) video games, choices have consequences and they'll have to deal with it. Opinion, read my new point 6.
5. Of course they shouldn't need a mod. They just need to go and get their resources. They don't need the mod, they can get it themselves. However, one should note that effort to obtain resources should be one of the first things considered when starting a project. If you don't want to put in the effort to obtain a resource to complete your build well, you made the decision to use that material. You could have chosen another one, another game mode, or another project. Read points 1, 3, 4, and 6.
I think these counters warrant a response since they poke holes in your argument destroying points. Also, I think it is important to note that I'd like to see a recipe for Netherbricks but I won't lose any sleep we don't get one. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.
I heard some pretty cool guy made this mod called Never Alone, it adds nether brick as a recipe, Netherrack + Cobblestone.
It seems pretty legit, you should totally go to his thread and tell him what an amazing guy he is. <3
BTW - I'm sorry but i couldn't help but notice this ~
Son. Da fuq happened to your brain when you typed that out.
OH GOD I JUST READ THE REST OF THE THREAD - I feel like my IQ just dropped a metric ton.
I don't claim to be the best speller in the world as well as being a bit dyslexic, and I was playing COD and responding in between games PLUS the built in FireFox spell checker seems to have issues with the new forums and sometimes will not tell me when I F*ck up. I am usually very careful to make sure posts are spell checked but as I said I was a bit distracted.
Hi, i am going to farm blazes and i am going to do that using a fire protection potion wich requires a brewing stand wich requires blaze rods. I think ill need a time machine to get one from the future!
On your first trip to the nether fortress, kill enough Blazes to get, holy crap, 2 Blaze rods! Then run back to the overworld (or make it in the fortress if you want) brew up a potion and wow, you're in the future.
Also blazes need a realy high light level to not spawn. You cant just run in place a few torches and stop there spawning. You will have to fight several before you are succesfull.
Fight a couple, get some rods, make your potion, proceed to torch up the spawner.
Traveling the landscape is part of the challange. Ghasts constantly shooting the ground from underneath you while traveling close/over lava/burning netherrack adds a challanges, yes. There is also no hostile free day time.
Erm, what does traversing the Nether have to do with conquering a nether fortress once you found one?
Anny netherbrick recipe should at the very least require something from a netherfortress. Otherwise its just alot easyer. As for netherrack you dont need to face anny of the dangers of the nether. You just dig straight into the first netherrack wall and can mine it in peace forever. Its the spelunking vs branch mining. Branch mining requires little to no effort. Spelunking is constant dangers.
I don't agree. Why should there be a requirement like that when making Stone Brick does not require something from a Stronghold? All that is needed for Stone Brick is 4 Stone and no one complains about that recipe.
He does, i do, others do.
Speaking of holes, your arguments are quite like swiss cheese
This is Minecraft, not real life. There should always be more than one way to obtain blocks because the creative aspect of Minecraft is the defining aspect of Minecraft, not anything else.
This is the only point of yours I'm going to dispute since the others already have. You do realize that I said other games as well. Every decision you make has consequences. Also, talking about the creative aspect, part of creativity is working with what you have and what you can get.
Bold is your counterargument to my counterargument. Below is my rebuttal to your counterargument using the same number scheme as before.
Here's my counters toward your arguments (when I can):
1. Again, would adding a recipe remove some of the challenge to gathering resources in survival? Not that there is much of a challenge, but most of the ideas involve Netherack which is stupidly common in the Nether. Being able to only obtain the blocks by mining them from pre-determined but infinitely numbered structures that contain some of the most annoying and difficult monsters in the game is a challenge. More challenging than gathering Netherrack and smelting then crafting or what ever recipe is used. What does this have to do with survival and creative modes?
2. Blaze rods are farmable though. Build a cobble stone room around the spawner and a small room attached for yourself and you can farm the **** out of Blazes. No difficulty really. Nether strongholds require travel (especially when you're done with one), lava, and other Nether mobs. It is more difficult to do, hence why people view it as a trophy. Basically, it requires more effort than simple mining. You need to find a nether fortress before you find blaze rods. They only spawn in nether fortresses! Looking for a blaze spawner then attacking them is much harder than simply mining blocks. You're farm idea might work, until a blaze throws a fireball at you.
3. Where is the evidence for this? All recipe suggestions in this thread have required Netherrack to be smelted then crafted into bricks or just crafted into bricks. Netherrack is ridiculously easy to mine with even a stone pick axe. How would you create a recipe that maintains the difficulty of surviving numerous mobs, lava, and mining that it currently has? I mean, hurray for your mod and all but until I see it and try it I won't be convinced that the difficulty is maintained. Read my newly-edited third point. It will require blaze rods. They would be much harder than mining nether bricks.
4. I would be perfectly willing to destroy a Nether fortress/stronghold/[insert official name here] for the resources. If some people don't want to mine them then fine. They made a decision to not do what is necessary to get the materials they want for construction. It is a choice and like in real life and most (if not all) video games, choices have consequences and they'll have to deal with it. Opinion, read my new point 6.
5. Of course they shouldn't need a mod. They just need to go and get their resources. They don't need the mod, they can get it themselves. However, one should note that effort to obtain resources should be one of the first things considered when starting a project. If you don't want to put in the effort to obtain a resource to complete your build well, you made the decision to use that material. You could have chosen another one, another game mode, or another project. Read points 1, 3, 4, and 6.
First, doing what you did is really annoying and makes replying directly to you slightly more annoying.
1. It has everything to do with survival and creative. Using your own point #1, "one of the main points of survival is to add a challenge to building stuff." Adding a recipe (barring your own ridiculous recipe, I view that as over the top) using the suggestions of most people have put forward would lessen the challenge by a significant degree and would go contrary to your first point. As a note for later, I will ignore your suggested recipe because it kinda runs counter to the purpose of having the recipe to begin with.
2. You underestimate the power of a properly built cobble stone room around a Blaze spawner. With a dirt block obstructing the top of the door (in which the door is a single block wide and two tall) and attacking their feet would easily prevent damage. I've done this several times since their addition and barring a few practice flubs, never got hit by a Blaze and was safe from other mobs. Since they are relatively easy to farm, they would not be good trophies. It is all the challenges involved in dismantling a Nether fortress that makes them somewhat decent trophies.
3. While your new third point and suggested recipe for netherbrick would be challenging it would be too laborious to be a competitive option when compared to dismantling a Nether fortress. It would be an appeasement for those who want them to be difficult to obtain, but it would completely defeat the purpose of adding a recipe. If I understand some underlying reasons for this, adding a recipe would be helpful to those who want to be "more" creative in survival. Your recipe completely fails in this regard because it would arguably be harder than want we currently have.
4. The reason it would concern me would be the devaluing of the effort used to gather Netherbrick before the change. I know I felt the same way when the recipe to make a Glowstone went from a 3x3 square of glowstone powder to a 2x2 square. That means that the 5 stacks of Glowstone that I had made beforehand were made with more than twice the effort and materials. It is a crappy feeling though I do appreciate the change. That is something that needs to be taken into account when adding a recipe to Netherbricks. Will it devalue the effort of those who collected a large amount before hand? If so, then by how much?
5. I've dismissed or countered your points 1, 3, 4, and 6. You never truly countered my counter to your fourth point. You just came up with a new one that I address right above (which coincidently address your new sixth point). I've come up with rebuttals for 1 and 3. However, it should be noted that your points as they stand do not address my point that creativity requires some planning and decisions. If you're not willing to go by your decisions for whatever reason, you need to change them.
Again, I need to stress that I would be all for the recipe so long it isn't more difficult than the current method of obtaining Netherbrick nor significantly easier.
I don't agree. Why should there be a requirement like that when making Stone Brick does not require something from a Stronghold? All that is needed for Stone Brick is 4 Stone and no one complains about that recipe.
Maybe it's due to Strongholds and the Stone Brick recipe came at the exact same update. Nether Brick however, was revealed in September of last year and officially released in November. Going from now, That's 4-6 months where we were forced to have the Nether Fortresses as the only source of Nether Brick. It is a different situation and those who went through the effort to gather thousands of blocks of the stuff to complete their builds will have gotten the shaft. It would somewhat devalue the effort put into getting them.
Using an example from above, it would be similar to the recipe change for Glowstone. All the effort would have gone to waste since the easier method negates the effort needed beforehand.
This is the only point of yours I'm going to dispute since the others already have. You do realize that I said other games as well. Every decision you make has consequences. Also, talking about the creative aspect, part of creativity is working with what you have and what you can get.
Bold is your counterargument to my counterargument. Below is my rebuttal to your counterargument using the same number scheme as before.
First, doing what you did is really annoying and makes replying directly to you slightly more annoying.
1. It has everything to do with survival and creative. Using your own point #1, "one of the main points of survival is to add a challenge to building stuff." Adding a recipe (barring your own ridiculous recipe, I view that as over the top) using the suggestions of most people have put forward would lessen the challenge by a significant degree and would go contrary to your first point. As a note for later, I will ignore your suggested recipe because it kinda runs counter to the purpose of having the recipe to begin with.
2. You underestimate the power of a properly built cobble stone room around a Blaze spawner. With a dirt block obstructing the top of the door (in which the door is a single block wide and two tall) and attacking their feet would easily prevent damage. I've done this several times since their addition and barring a few practice flubs, never got hit by a Blaze and was safe from other mobs. Since they are relatively easy to farm, they would not be good trophies. It is all the challenges involved in dismantling a Nether fortress that makes them somewhat decent trophies.
3. While your new third point and suggested recipe for netherbrick would be challenging it would be too laborious to be a competitive option when compared to dismantling a Nether fortress. It would be an appeasement for those who want them to be difficult to obtain, but it would completely defeat the purpose of adding a recipe. If I understand some underlying reasons for this, adding a recipe would be helpful to those who want to be "more" creative in survival. Your recipe completely fails in this regard because it would arguably be harder than want we currently have.
4. The reason it would concern me would be the devaluing of the effort used to gather Netherbrick before the change. I know I felt the same way when the recipe to make a Glowstone went from a 3x3 square of glowstone powder to a 2x2 square. That means that the 5 stacks of Glowstone that I had made beforehand were made with more than twice the effort and materials. It is a crappy feeling though I do appreciate the change. That is something that needs to be taken into account when adding a recipe to Netherbricks. Will it devalue the effort of those who collected a large amount before hand? If so, then by how much?
5. I've dismissed or countered your points 1, 3, 4, and 6. You never truly countered my counter to your fourth point. You just came up with a new one that I address right above (which coincidently address your new sixth point). I've come up with rebuttals for 1 and 3. However, it should be noted that your points as they stand do not address my point that creativity requires some planning and decisions. If you're not willing to go by your decisions for whatever reason, you need to change them.
Again, I need to stress that I would be all for the recipe so long it isn't more difficult than the current method of obtaining Netherbrick nor significantly easier.
EDIT:
Maybe it's due to Strongholds and the Stone Brick recipe came at the exact same update. Nether Brick however, was revealed in September of last year and officially released in November. Going from now, That's 4-6 months where we were forced to have the Nether Fortresses as the only source of Nether Brick. It is a different situation and those who went through the effort to gather thousands of blocks of the stuff to complete their builds will have gotten the shaft. It would somewhat devalue the effort put into getting them.
Using an example from above, it would be similar to the recipe change for Glowstone. All the effort would have gone to waste since the easier method negates the effort needed beforehand.
1. One reason I want that recipe is to get nether bricks without have to dismantling tons of beautiful fortresses, but still make it challenging to get. Also, this recipe would make it possible to get more netherbricks than the fortresses provide. In addition, it ensures that you need to find nether bricks first before you make almost an infinite amount. I'll make an easier recipe if you want, though.
2. It is still easier to mine a bunch of blocks than to kill a bunch of blazes.
4. and 3. Devalue? I thought my recipe was harder. And I think of the difficulty as the cost for the ability to obtain a lot more nether bricks than one normally could. As you said, there are consequences for making decisions.
5. Back to your point of decisions, what block has the same color and effect as nether brick? What if someone wants that effect? What if someone can't think of a different project?
Edit: If you want an easier recipe, then here you go:
I used to wish that there was a recipe for gunpowder, so that I could mass produce TNT for large scale mining projects. Then I realized that with some preparatory work, I could get as much gunpowder as I wanted, without any risk.
I used to wish that there was different recipe for making sticky pistons than using slimeballs, Then I realized that with some preparatory work, I could get as many slimeballs as I wanted, without any risk..
Blaze rods are the same way: with a bit of preparatory work, you can get as many blaze rods as you want, without any risk.
Much like mossy cobblestone, mossy stone bricks, or cracked stone bricks, the value of nether bricks as a building material is the effort it takes to get it. It requires more effort to mine it physically from the Nether Ruin, than it does to craft it from the fruits of killing blazes. Killing blazes is easy. Quite often, when mining nether bricks, you've got to worry about lava below, ghasts above, which means you've got to erect countermeasures, or risk getting killed.
If you're really serious about making nether brick hard to create, make sure it includes a nether component that's genuinely hard to get in the nether.
I suggest this one:
= 8 nether
four clay blocks ( ), four magna cream ( ), and a ghast tear ( ). That way, you still need to kill blazes (or find a lot of magma cubes) to make it, but crafting it is still an achievement.
I used to wish that there was a recipe for gunpowder, so that I could mass produce TNT for large scale mining projects. Then I realized that with some preparatory work, I could get as much gunpowder as I wanted, without any risk.
I used to wish that there was different recipe for making sticky pistons than using slimeballs, Then I realized that with some preparatory work, I could get as many slimeballs as I wanted, without any risk..
Blaze rods are the same way: with a bit of preparatory work, you can get as many blaze rods as you want, without any risk.
Much like mossy cobblestone, mossy stone bricks, or cracked stone bricks, the value of nether bricks as a building material is the effort it takes to get it. It requires more effort to mine it physically from the Nether Ruin, than it does to craft it from the fruits of killing blazes. Killing blazes is easy. Quite often, when mining nether bricks, you've got to worry about lava below, ghasts above, which means you've got to erect countermeasures, or risk getting killed.
If you're really serious about making nether brick hard to create, make sure it includes a nether component that's genuinely hard to get in the nether.
I suggest this one:
= 8 nether
four clay blocks ( ), four magna cream ( ), and a ghast tear ( ). That way, you still need to kill blazes (or find a lot of magma cubes) to make it, but crafting it is still an achievement.
(edited to correct typos)
Your recipe defeats the purpose of getting more nether bricks. It would be hard to find enough clay blocks to get enough nether bricks you want, leading back to the original problem. Unless you also add a recipe for clay blocks, but coincidentally, that is the only item I am having a hard time making a recipe for. Also, gunpowder and slimeballs are nothing like nether bricks, because they're renewable mob drops.
3. While your new third point and suggested recipe for netherbrick would be challenging it would be too laborious to be a competitive option when compared to dismantling a Nether fortress. It would be an appeasement for those who want them to be difficult to obtain, but it would completely defeat the purpose of adding a recipe. If I understand some underlying reasons for this, adding a recipe would be helpful to those who want to be "more" creative in survival. Your recipe completely fails in this regard because it would arguably be harder than want we currently have.
Your recipe defeats the purpose of getting more nether bricks. It would be hard to find enough clay blocks to get enough nether bricks you want, leading back to the original problem. Unless you also add a recipe for clay blocks, but coincidentally, that is the only item I am having a hard time making a recipe for.
I'm pretty sure that my recipe:
is challenging enough (or even too challenging), according to this:
and I'm sure your recipe is harder than mine.
*blinks*
I figured that the ghast tear or magma creams would be the hard component to get, not the clay blocks. Clay blocks are easy to craft: take the four clay balls you get for digging up a clay block, put them in a 2x2 square, and you get one clay block.
And the point of the recipe is that it should be as hard to craft nether bricks as it to harvest them. Most of us are perfectly happy nibbling away at those useless bridges to nowhere to get our nether brick, with all the risks that usually come with it. If you want to play the conservationist in the game, then you should expend at least as much effort as we are.
Dude, stop asking to make the game easier, go out find, and attain nether brick. Noone wants minecraft to simply hand **** to you on a silver platter.
This mod is the best.
Except for the fact that you wish for a crafting process that would require some effort and not just a simple "cook some Netherrack", I can't see any of these points as any convincing arguments. They are all your opinions more than anything else. Just as I have my opinion that for some blocks we should be required to seek out the source, or sources. The Netherbrick can really be found in infinite quantities.
A recipe could be a nice change if it means a balanced choice between spending time gathering the materials for the crafting process and the effort needed to seek out a Nether fortress.
Here's my counters toward your arguments (when I can):
1. Again, would adding a recipe remove some of the challenge to gathering resources in survival? Not that there is much of a challenge, but most of the ideas involve Netherack which is stupidly common in the Nether. Being able to only obtain the blocks by mining them from pre-determined but infinitely numbered structures that contain some of the most annoying and difficult monsters in the game is a challenge. More challenging than gathering Netherrack and smelting then crafting or what ever recipe is used.
2. Blaze rods are farmable though. Build a cobble stone room around the spawner and a small room attached for yourself and you can farm the **** out of Blazes. No difficulty really. Nether strongholds require travel (especially when you're done with one), lava, and other Nether mobs. It is more difficult to do, hence why people view it as a trophy. Basically, it requires more effort than simple mining.
3. Where is the evidence for this? All recipe suggestions in this thread have required Netherrack to be smelted then crafted into bricks or just crafted into bricks. Netherrack is ridiculously easy to mine with even a stone pick axe. How would you create a recipe that maintains the difficulty of surviving numerous mobs, lava, and mining that it currently has? I mean, hurray for your mod and all but until I see it and try it I won't be convinced that the difficulty is maintained.
4. I would be perfectly willing to destroy a Nether fortress/stronghold/[insert official name here] for the resources. If some people don't want to mine them then fine. They made a decision to not do what is necessary to get the materials they want for construction. It is a choice and like in real life and most (if not all) video games, choices have consequences and they'll have to deal with it.
5. Of course they shouldn't need a mod. They just need to go and get their resources. They don't need the mod, they can get it themselves. However, one should note that effort to obtain resources should be one of the first things considered when starting a project. If you don't want to put in the effort to obtain a resource to complete your build well, you made the decision to use that material. You could have chosen another one, another game mode, or another project.
I think these counters warrant a response since they poke holes in your argument destroying points. Also, I think it is important to note that I'd like to see a recipe for Netherbricks but I won't lose any sleep we don't get one. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.
Just like diamond ore
and the resource on the Earth
You want to build your home?
Break other guys' home and collect their bricks!
Oh COME ON!
Nether is HELL and it's supposed to be full of hate, pain and violence
And really, Blaze spawners are the only *challenging* part of the Nether fortresses, and that is only if you decided to forgo making even one fire protection potion. All the rest is simple torching.
If by "more difficult" you mean only marginally so unless you aggro the limitless Zombie Pigmen that spawn in the narrow halls of the Nether Fortresses, or decide to tackle a Blaze spawner which has "No difficulty, really".
Seriously, which is harder:
Placing Torches
Mining Netherrack
It's a real toss-up when it comes to which is more difficult.
Not saying you would want my opinion on the matter, but as I said prior, requiring 4-9 stacks of Netherrack (with the possibility of other ingredients) per stack of Nether Brick would be plenty annoying in and of itself to keep it a choice between mining the brick itself or making it.
And no, mining Nether Brick is not as hard as you make it sound.
This is Minecraft, not real life. There should always be more than one way to obtain blocks because the creative aspect of Minecraft is the defining aspect of Minecraft, not anything else.
Not going to disagree here. Though, I will say that adding alternative ways to obtain these blocks will make it so that actually building with them is not going to end up being a pain on your computer/server due to creating more chunks to look for them.
I don't see the holes, really
Nether brick has a ridiculous explosive resistance. Like if you set TNT right by a Nether Brick wall, only 1-2 blocks will be perma-destroyed, and maybe 2 more will be turned into drops. Great for creeper-proofing a compound.
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
The blast resistance of nether brick is the same as cobble, stone, ore blocks, all slabs, and even iron bars. All of the materials with a blast resistance of 30 are just as explosion-resistant. Also, end stone, water, lava, obsidian, bedrock, and an enchantment table ALL are more blast resistant.
Why does everyone think I don't have an avatar? Is there anyone who can see the one black pixel.
Please click the dragons, they need to grow. Also, my fully grown dragons can be found in my bio.
Those against adding it, does adding a crafting recipe effect you in any single way? No, it will not change the way you play the game, nothing will be forced on you. If you don't want a recipe you don't have to use it. You can rape an pillage nether fortresses all you like and post signs that say you did just such if you want a trophy so bad.
Those for adding it, does adding a crafting recipe effect you? Yes. You will be able to craft as much nether brick as you need to build. The nether already needs more content and reason to stay there. Adding the ability to refine netherrack and make tools gives us that.
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
Thank you. the vast majority of people who play minecraft have no idea how an open ended, emergent gameplay videogame works. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it, and just because it isn't meant to be there doesn't mean you can't make it yourself.
http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Stone_Brick
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Read points 1 and 5.
Read point 4. Dungeons are just rectangular prisms; nether fortresses are towering, complex structures.
Read point 3.
bold = my counterargument
Read point 5.
Hopefully, this post will end this debate.
I don't claim to be the best speller in the world as well as being a bit dyslexic, and I was playing COD and responding in between games PLUS the built in FireFox spell checker seems to have issues with the new forums and sometimes will not tell me when I F*ck up. I am usually very careful to make sure posts are spell checked but as I said I was a bit distracted.
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
Fight a couple, get some rods, make your potion, proceed to torch up the spawner.
Erm, what does traversing the Nether have to do with conquering a nether fortress once you found one?
I don't agree. Why should there be a requirement like that when making Stone Brick does not require something from a Stronghold? All that is needed for Stone Brick is 4 Stone and no one complains about that recipe.
Speaking of holes, your arguments are quite like swiss cheese
This is the only point of yours I'm going to dispute since the others already have. You do realize that I said other games as well. Every decision you make has consequences. Also, talking about the creative aspect, part of creativity is working with what you have and what you can get.
Bold is your counterargument to my counterargument. Below is my rebuttal to your counterargument using the same number scheme as before.
First, doing what you did is really annoying and makes replying directly to you slightly more annoying.
1. It has everything to do with survival and creative. Using your own point #1, "one of the main points of survival is to add a challenge to building stuff." Adding a recipe (barring your own ridiculous recipe, I view that as over the top) using the suggestions of most people have put forward would lessen the challenge by a significant degree and would go contrary to your first point. As a note for later, I will ignore your suggested recipe because it kinda runs counter to the purpose of having the recipe to begin with.
2. You underestimate the power of a properly built cobble stone room around a Blaze spawner. With a dirt block obstructing the top of the door (in which the door is a single block wide and two tall) and attacking their feet would easily prevent damage. I've done this several times since their addition and barring a few practice flubs, never got hit by a Blaze and was safe from other mobs. Since they are relatively easy to farm, they would not be good trophies. It is all the challenges involved in dismantling a Nether fortress that makes them somewhat decent trophies.
3. While your new third point and suggested recipe for netherbrick would be challenging it would be too laborious to be a competitive option when compared to dismantling a Nether fortress. It would be an appeasement for those who want them to be difficult to obtain, but it would completely defeat the purpose of adding a recipe. If I understand some underlying reasons for this, adding a recipe would be helpful to those who want to be "more" creative in survival. Your recipe completely fails in this regard because it would arguably be harder than want we currently have.
4. The reason it would concern me would be the devaluing of the effort used to gather Netherbrick before the change. I know I felt the same way when the recipe to make a Glowstone went from a 3x3 square of glowstone powder to a 2x2 square. That means that the 5 stacks of Glowstone that I had made beforehand were made with more than twice the effort and materials. It is a crappy feeling though I do appreciate the change. That is something that needs to be taken into account when adding a recipe to Netherbricks. Will it devalue the effort of those who collected a large amount before hand? If so, then by how much?
5. I've dismissed or countered your points 1, 3, 4, and 6. You never truly countered my counter to your fourth point. You just came up with a new one that I address right above (which coincidently address your new sixth point). I've come up with rebuttals for 1 and 3. However, it should be noted that your points as they stand do not address my point that creativity requires some planning and decisions. If you're not willing to go by your decisions for whatever reason, you need to change them.
Again, I need to stress that I would be all for the recipe so long it isn't more difficult than the current method of obtaining Netherbrick nor significantly easier.
EDIT:
Maybe it's due to Strongholds and the Stone Brick recipe came at the exact same update. Nether Brick however, was revealed in September of last year and officially released in November. Going from now, That's 4-6 months where we were forced to have the Nether Fortresses as the only source of Nether Brick. It is a different situation and those who went through the effort to gather thousands of blocks of the stuff to complete their builds will have gotten the shaft. It would somewhat devalue the effort put into getting them.
Using an example from above, it would be similar to the recipe change for Glowstone. All the effort would have gone to waste since the easier method negates the effort needed beforehand.
Yes, you need to find it:
1. One reason I want that recipe is to get nether bricks without have to dismantling tons of beautiful fortresses, but still make it challenging to get. Also, this recipe would make it possible to get more netherbricks than the fortresses provide. In addition, it ensures that you need to find nether bricks first before you make almost an infinite amount. I'll make an easier recipe if you want, though.
2. It is still easier to mine a bunch of blocks than to kill a bunch of blazes.
4. and 3. Devalue? I thought my recipe was harder. And I think of the difficulty as the cost for the ability to obtain a lot more nether bricks than one normally could. As you said, there are consequences for making decisions.
5. Back to your point of decisions, what block has the same color and effect as nether brick? What if someone wants that effect? What if someone can't think of a different project?
Edit: If you want an easier recipe, then here you go:
I used to wish that there was different recipe for making sticky pistons than using slimeballs, Then I realized that with some preparatory work, I could get as many slimeballs as I wanted, without any risk..
Blaze rods are the same way: with a bit of preparatory work, you can get as many blaze rods as you want, without any risk.
Much like mossy cobblestone, mossy stone bricks, or cracked stone bricks, the value of nether bricks as a building material is the effort it takes to get it. It requires more effort to mine it physically from the Nether Ruin, than it does to craft it from the fruits of killing blazes. Killing blazes is easy. Quite often, when mining nether bricks, you've got to worry about lava below, ghasts above, which means you've got to erect countermeasures, or risk getting killed.
If you're really serious about making nether brick hard to create, make sure it includes a nether component that's genuinely hard to get in the nether.
I suggest this one:
= 8 nether
four clay blocks ( ), four magna cream ( ), and a ghast tear ( ). That way, you still need to kill blazes (or find a lot of magma cubes) to make it, but crafting it is still an achievement.
(edited to correct typos)
Your recipe defeats the purpose of getting more nether bricks. It would be hard to find enough clay blocks to get enough nether bricks you want, leading back to the original problem. Unless you also add a recipe for clay blocks, but coincidentally, that is the only item I am having a hard time making a recipe for. Also, gunpowder and slimeballs are nothing like nether bricks, because they're renewable mob drops.
I'm pretty sure that my recipe:
is challenging enough (or even too challenging), according to this:
and I'm sure your recipe is harder than mine.
*blinks*
I figured that the ghast tear or magma creams would be the hard component to get, not the clay blocks. Clay blocks are easy to craft: take the four clay balls you get for digging up a clay block, put them in a 2x2 square, and you get one clay block.
And the point of the recipe is that it should be as hard to craft nether bricks as it to harvest them. Most of us are perfectly happy nibbling away at those useless bridges to nowhere to get our nether brick, with all the risks that usually come with it. If you want to play the conservationist in the game, then you should expend at least as much effort as we are.