It doesn't, in fact, it took less then what I said.
You are misinformed.
the trap you posted will only work in creative because a room that size will not accommodate 15 villagers. they won't breed (which takes almost a week to reach 15 villagers btw).
the were spawned on top of eachother using creative. you need a bigger room - then your room will be too big and the golem will be spawing on all sides of it and not in the kill zone.
the trap you posted will only work in creative because a room that size will not accommodate 15 villagers. they won't breed.
the were spawned in using creative. this trap will not work without creative.
---------------------------------
also this isnt true either...
an iron farm produces at a constant rate - not exponentially and mining isn't a diminishing return either.
------------------------------------
this is what you need to build and you need to find an npc village and build it there then get the npcs into it.
Yeah, there's a lot more materials.
Let me repeat:
Get 2 villagers in a house.(the only hard step of the entire process)
Put many doors around the room.
put a 1-wide hole going down a couple of blocks, put a sign at the top of the hole(this hole will be in the middle of the room).
only put the hole+sign when they are at 15, villagers WILL fall down it because this is a classic way to make mobs fall off ledges.
Then make that farm in the video I posted. This is simply you being ignorant of efficient means.
Let me repeat:
Get 2 villagers in a house.(the only hard step of the entire process)
Put many doors around the room.
put a 1-wide hole going down a couple of blocks, put a sign at the top of the hole(this hole will be in the middle of the room).
only put the hole+sign when they are at 15, villagers WILL fall down it because this is a classic way to make mobs fall off ledges.
Then make that farm in the video I posted. This is simply you being ignorant of efficient means.
signs no longer fool mobs. your video was clearly made in creative.
either way you still have to wait about a week to have 15 villagers.
Btw, iron farm is exponential because villagers can breed even more.
its not exponential growth. you can only cram so many villagers into a room.
----------------------------
but, you proved that it can be done more efficiently than i previously thought, however with the spawn rate of iron golems being nerfed i still stand by my OP - even though it requires less materials to build.
no i wasn't speculating, but the previous poster said that signs no longer fooling mobs was a bug not a fix. my bad.
its not exponential growth. you can only cram so many villagers into a room.
Put doors around the tube they are in: villagers mate.
When you put a block on either side of a door within 5 blocks at any height, it is considered a house. Within 40 block distance you can make a house for them to respond with breeding to 'fill the house'.
You know what's funny? Iron farms are terrible simply because all the iron drops create insane lag.
RedstoneVet doesn't seem to understand diminishing returns versus consistent returns (technically exponentiation in the case of a grinder which takes effort to build), and it makes debating with him downright impossible.
If it's so easy, how about trying to do it legit in a survival world... Make a video showing us how it's done... On a fresh world.
I can almost guarantee that it will take you longer than an hour of decided effort to rig up, not counting the 2-6 hours it would probably take to find a village with living villagers and having enough resources built up to even start.
Now here's the kicker... To what end? What does this really give the player for all that effort? Most of us who do any significant amount of mining already get enough iron after a few hours to where we don't know what to do with it any more. Are we getting upset because someone might go and make a 5,000 piece minecart track? A house made out of iron blocks?
Even when I am playing and going through abandoned mines, and countless areas with a high infestation of mobs, I have rarely used more than 2-3 stacks of iron before I had some diamond to use. On one world where I have around 80 hours invested, I literally have a chest full of iron ingots saved up just from mining and collecting.
This falls to the same fatal flaws that go with other farming methods... You spend 30-120 minutes building something, another 10-90 minutes refining the design, use it for 10 minutes, get bored, stash the product in a chest somewhere, and never look back. Just like a cobblestone generator in your mine, a drop farm from a skeleton spawner, a blaze farm, or an automatic wheat/melon farm, and dozens of other things. Regardless what it is, and how limitless the supply, eventually you will run out of things that make any sense, and even things that don't to do with it all. About the only farm with any long-term benefit is an exp farm... and that's only because you can't repair enchanted things without losing the enchantment.
And from the SMP standpoint... Find better servers with admins who give a **** and this will never be an issue.
you are not taking into consideration the ingenuity and time it takes to gather the resources, find an npc village, get the npc to the proper population, and build it. if you take that amount of time and focus on collecting only iron you will be able to gather a lifetime supply of iron.
What is this "lifetime supply of iron" of yours? A few stacks? Building a half dozen iron golems to patrol my underground base alone will cost that. So will the 3km railroad I'm building. I was going through that in iron picks alone clearing out the Underhall when I was low on diamond. Hell, one mistep while playing with lava can cost a whole stack in armor, tools, and buckets.
What is this "lifetime supply of iron" of yours? A few stacks? Building a half dozen iron golems to patrol my underground base alone will cost that. So will the 3km railroad I'm building. I was going through that in iron picks alone clearing out the Underhall when I was low on diamond. Hell, one mistep while playing with lava can cost a whole stack in armor, tools, and buckets.
Let me offer a testimate to the other end of the scale: My personal iron stockpile totals exactly 24,435 ingots. Every. Single. Ingot. Was legitimately obtained, granted over an extended time period. I could easily start making buildings out of iron blocks and wouldn't miss the stuff.
What would I do with more? Probably let it rot in the box. Once I have fitted myself with some fresh armor; and maybe plotted an invasion of the nether...
But it sounds like you just haven't hit the 'comfort point' of resources yet. Once you manage to get there (aside from an unfortunate griefer attack) you'll really have no want for the stuff aside from armor repairs.
Let me offer a testimate to the other end of the scale: My personal iron stockpile totals exactly 24,435 ingots. Every. Single. Ingot. Was legitimately obtained, granted over an extended time period. I could easily start making buildings out of iron blocks and wouldn't miss the stuff.
What would I do with more? Probably let it rot in the box. Once I have fitted myself with some fresh armor; and maybe plotted an invasion of the nether...
But it sounds like you just haven't hit the 'comfort point' of resources yet. Once you manage to get there (aside from an unfortunate griefer attack) you'll really have no want for the stuff aside from armor repairs.
That's hilarious, but no. I'm well past the 'comfort point', and into the "building world-spanning projects" point.
I can create a stockpile of whatever resource you want if I just never use it. But I use iron. A lot of it. I'm about to start filling a couple of double chests with buckets of lava. I also need a couple hundred pistons to add a feature to my mob farm. That nether you're talking about? Watch how fast it eats up iron picks when you're building a 3x3 rail tunnel to the fortress you found. I go through iron on a consistent basis. Easily enough to make building a golem farm pay off.
That's hilarious, but no. I'm well past the 'comfort point', and into the "building world-spanning projects" point.
I can create a stockpile of whatever resource you want if I just never use it. But I use iron. A lot of it. I'm about to start filling a couple of double chests with buckets of lava. I also need a couple hundred pistons to add a feature to my mob farm. That nether you're talking about? Watch how fast it eats up iron picks when you're building a 3x3 rail tunnel to the fortress you found. I go through iron on a consistent basis. Easily enough to make building a golem farm pay off.
Go diamond hunting with an enchanted pickaxe with Fortune III... you'll get a stack or two of diamond fairly quickly. Can convert this to diamond pickaxes enough to enchant with unbreaking I or II. These will last you a VERY long time.
Regardless, projects like that usually aren't something that people can do legit without spending hundreds of hours in a world or using cheats/mods of some kind. Meanwhile most of the people complaining seem to be ones who spend more time on the forums than playing. Most normal players wouldn't know what to do with a double chest of iron (or diamond) if you gave them one.
If it's so easy, how about trying to do it legit in a survival world... Make a video showing us how it's done... On a fresh world.
I can almost guarantee that it will take you longer than an hour of decided effort to rig up, not counting the 2-6 hours it would probably take to find a village with living villagers and having enough resources built up to even start.
I haven't bothered trying yet because I'm currently playing a different game. Are you telling me my explanation would be impossible to do in a short period of time? They breed pretty fast after you place plenty of doors.
I have more of a problem with how it changes the game. It's becoming less about mining every single update.
Go diamond hunting with an enchanted pickaxe with Fortune III... you'll get a stack or two of diamond fairly quickly. Can convert this to diamond pickaxes enough to enchant with unbreaking I or II. These will last you a VERY long time.
Regardless, projects like that usually aren't something that people can do legit without spending hundreds of hours in a world or using cheats/mods of some kind. Meanwhile most of the people complaining seem to be ones who spend more time on the forums than playing. Most normal players wouldn't know what to do with a double chest of iron (or diamond) if you gave them one.
...because Fortune III pops up all the time.
And I've had stacks of diamonds. I've gone *through* stacks of diamonds.
Please don't decide that your playstyle is how "normal" players play minecraft, and that everything else is deviant. I'm not the only one who builds railroads or uses pistons.
That's hilarious, but no. I'm well past the 'comfort point', and into the "building world-spanning projects" point.
I can create a stockpile of whatever resource you want if I just never use it. But I use iron. A lot of it. I'm about to start filling a couple of double chests with buckets of lava. I also need a couple hundred pistons to add a feature to my mob farm. That nether you're talking about? Watch how fast it eats up iron picks when you're building a 3x3 rail tunnel to the fortress you found. I go through iron on a consistent basis. Easily enough to make building a golem farm pay off.
This post bewilders me greatly, as it appears to be trying to imply that I only have iron because I never use Iron...
Lets take a quick look at the projects you listed:
A double chest of buckets: Despite my urge to ask why you need that many... I do have a double-box full of buckets. Of which: I didn't craft any of them. Got them all from dungeon chests.
A couple hundred pistons for a mob farm? Alright, how about instead a few hundred pistons for decorative gates, and panic switches for homes. Anesthetic stuff mostly. Just last evening I installed 38 pistons to act as side tables in a dwarven-style city currently being built into a ravine.
Nether? Quite a ways back I personally build a 5-wide walkway from entrance portal, to a fortress 800 blocks away; encased the entire thing in iron fences with smooth stone slabs on top.
Still working on our over-world rail station though. Our resident redstone enthusiast has made a delightful little switch board based system to control which destination the visitor is sent to. However each destination requires an inbound and outbound track; so it gets rail intensive.
I built sir, not just stock pile; and there is still an obnoxious amount of materials left over already.
It isn't an 'exploit' due to the sandbox nature of the game. The point of a sandbox is to do whatever the hell you want.
this!
The bigger problem with mob farms seems to come from free range multiplayer servers that are already full of hacks, exploits, and more griefers than I care to count. The percentage of players involved in this type of play are in the minority and are the most susceptible to these types of problems. IMO, no one should join a random MP server without expecting this kind of thing to happen. If you don't like it, start your own private server or play on SP. People who want to game to change over these petty matters are simply being selfish.
I built sir, not just stock pile; and there is still an obnoxious amount of materials left over already.
K, not buying it. Where are you getting all of this iron? Are you actually full clearing chunks? All 285 that you'd need just to get the amount that you have "left over"? I've actually done a good bit of clearing at bedrock level, and before enchants it was barely sustainable using iron and diamond picks- I had to resort to stone occasionally. Even with enchants you can run out of diamond.
What percentage of your time do you actually spend building compared to mining? Or am I supposed to believe that you just found that much iron sitting around on the surface?
RedstoneVet doesn't seem to understand diminishing returns versus consistent returns (technically exponentiation in the case of a grinder which takes effort to build), and it makes debating with him downright impossible.
you are ignorant, so to finally put this to rest.
:dry.gif: a grinder isn't exponential growth because you get a constant rate of return from it.
ie. the amount of drops will only be what the grinder is capable of producing. a grinder is not capable of increasing its production of drops over time. it drops iron at a constant rate (so many drops per hour) given that golems always drop the same amount of iron ingots - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth
:dry.gif: also mining isn't a diminishing return. not even close.
The law of diminishing returns (also law of diminishing marginal returns or law of increasing relative cost) states that in all productive processes, adding more of one factor of production, while holding all others constant, will at some point yield lower per-unit returns. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns)
This means by mining more iron the total amount of iron that you are able to collect will decrease exponentially depending on how much you mine. this is not true.
ie. a pick will mine so many iron blocks before it breaks. it will always mine the same amount. this is constant. the time it takes you for mine iron varies slightly, but will always be roughly the same everytime since iron is very common.
---------------------------------------------------------- Therefore, mining and a mob traps both give a constant rate of return. (mining is not quite constant, because time can vary slightly, but it is very close)
if you graphed the production of iron for both mining and a mob trap the line would be flat at a set amount per hour. it is constant, or near constant.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Next time only use terminology when you know what it means because you are dead wrong on this one.
You are misinformed.
the trap you posted will only work in creative because a room that size will not accommodate 15 villagers. they won't breed (which takes almost a week to reach 15 villagers btw).
the were spawned on top of eachother using creative. you need a bigger room - then your room will be too big and the golem will be spawing on all sides of it and not in the kill zone.
this trap will not work without creative.
---------------------------------
This isn't true either...
an iron farm produces at a constant rate - not exponentially and mining isn't a diminishing return either.
------------------------------------
this is what you need to build and you need to find an npc village and build it there then get the npcs into it.
Yeah, there's a lot more materials.
Get 2 villagers in a house.(the only hard step of the entire process)
Put many doors around the room.
put a 1-wide hole going down a couple of blocks, put a sign at the top of the hole(this hole will be in the middle of the room).
only put the hole+sign when they are at 15, villagers WILL fall down it because this is a classic way to make mobs fall off ledges.
Then make that farm in the video I posted. This is simply you being ignorant of efficient means.
signs no longer fool mobs. your video was clearly made in creative.
either way you still have to wait about a week to have 15 villagers.
also:
This isn't true either...
an iron farm produces at a constant rate - not exponentially and mining isn't a diminishing return either.
Btw, iron farm is exponential because villagers can breed even more.
no i wasn't speculating, but the previous poster said that signs no longer fooling mobs was a bug not a fix. my bad.
its not exponential growth. you can only cram so many villagers into a room.
----------------------------
but, you proved that it can be done more efficiently than i previously thought, however with the spawn rate of iron golems being nerfed i still stand by my OP - even though it requires less materials to build.
When you put a block on either side of a door within 5 blocks at any height, it is considered a house. Within 40 block distance you can make a house for them to respond with breeding to 'fill the house'.
You know what's funny? Iron farms are terrible simply because all the iron drops create insane lag.
the spawn rate is being looked at and probably nerfed to balance the rate of drops.
https://twitter.com/#!/jeb_/status/173039984687845377
If it's so easy, how about trying to do it legit in a survival world... Make a video showing us how it's done... On a fresh world.
I can almost guarantee that it will take you longer than an hour of decided effort to rig up, not counting the 2-6 hours it would probably take to find a village with living villagers and having enough resources built up to even start.
Now here's the kicker... To what end? What does this really give the player for all that effort? Most of us who do any significant amount of mining already get enough iron after a few hours to where we don't know what to do with it any more. Are we getting upset because someone might go and make a 5,000 piece minecart track? A house made out of iron blocks?
Even when I am playing and going through abandoned mines, and countless areas with a high infestation of mobs, I have rarely used more than 2-3 stacks of iron before I had some diamond to use. On one world where I have around 80 hours invested, I literally have a chest full of iron ingots saved up just from mining and collecting.
This falls to the same fatal flaws that go with other farming methods... You spend 30-120 minutes building something, another 10-90 minutes refining the design, use it for 10 minutes, get bored, stash the product in a chest somewhere, and never look back. Just like a cobblestone generator in your mine, a drop farm from a skeleton spawner, a blaze farm, or an automatic wheat/melon farm, and dozens of other things. Regardless what it is, and how limitless the supply, eventually you will run out of things that make any sense, and even things that don't to do with it all. About the only farm with any long-term benefit is an exp farm... and that's only because you can't repair enchanted things without losing the enchantment.
And from the SMP standpoint... Find better servers with admins who give a **** and this will never be an issue.
I sure am glad [not the developer] is telling me how to play my game.
woo, excuse me there... little bit of a flareup. Carry on.
What is this "lifetime supply of iron" of yours? A few stacks? Building a half dozen iron golems to patrol my underground base alone will cost that. So will the 3km railroad I'm building. I was going through that in iron picks alone clearing out the Underhall when I was low on diamond. Hell, one mistep while playing with lava can cost a whole stack in armor, tools, and buckets.
Let me offer a testimate to the other end of the scale: My personal iron stockpile totals exactly 24,435 ingots. Every. Single. Ingot. Was legitimately obtained, granted over an extended time period. I could easily start making buildings out of iron blocks and wouldn't miss the stuff.
What would I do with more? Probably let it rot in the box. Once I have fitted myself with some fresh armor; and maybe plotted an invasion of the nether...
But it sounds like you just haven't hit the 'comfort point' of resources yet. Once you manage to get there (aside from an unfortunate griefer attack) you'll really have no want for the stuff aside from armor repairs.
That's hilarious, but no. I'm well past the 'comfort point', and into the "building world-spanning projects" point.
I can create a stockpile of whatever resource you want if I just never use it. But I use iron. A lot of it. I'm about to start filling a couple of double chests with buckets of lava. I also need a couple hundred pistons to add a feature to my mob farm. That nether you're talking about? Watch how fast it eats up iron picks when you're building a 3x3 rail tunnel to the fortress you found. I go through iron on a consistent basis. Easily enough to make building a golem farm pay off.
Go diamond hunting with an enchanted pickaxe with Fortune III... you'll get a stack or two of diamond fairly quickly. Can convert this to diamond pickaxes enough to enchant with unbreaking I or II. These will last you a VERY long time.
Regardless, projects like that usually aren't something that people can do legit without spending hundreds of hours in a world or using cheats/mods of some kind. Meanwhile most of the people complaining seem to be ones who spend more time on the forums than playing. Most normal players wouldn't know what to do with a double chest of iron (or diamond) if you gave them one.
I have more of a problem with how it changes the game. It's becoming less about mining every single update.
...because Fortune III pops up all the time.
And I've had stacks of diamonds. I've gone *through* stacks of diamonds.
Please don't decide that your playstyle is how "normal" players play minecraft, and that everything else is deviant. I'm not the only one who builds railroads or uses pistons.
This post bewilders me greatly, as it appears to be trying to imply that I only have iron because I never use Iron...
Lets take a quick look at the projects you listed:
A double chest of buckets: Despite my urge to ask why you need that many... I do have a double-box full of buckets. Of which: I didn't craft any of them. Got them all from dungeon chests.
A couple hundred pistons for a mob farm? Alright, how about instead a few hundred pistons for decorative gates, and panic switches for homes. Anesthetic stuff mostly. Just last evening I installed 38 pistons to act as side tables in a dwarven-style city currently being built into a ravine.
Nether? Quite a ways back I personally build a 5-wide walkway from entrance portal, to a fortress 800 blocks away; encased the entire thing in iron fences with smooth stone slabs on top.
Still working on our over-world rail station though. Our resident redstone enthusiast has made a delightful little switch board based system to control which destination the visitor is sent to. However each destination requires an inbound and outbound track; so it gets rail intensive.
I built sir, not just stock pile; and there is still an obnoxious amount of materials left over already.
this!
The bigger problem with mob farms seems to come from free range multiplayer servers that are already full of hacks, exploits, and more griefers than I care to count. The percentage of players involved in this type of play are in the minority and are the most susceptible to these types of problems. IMO, no one should join a random MP server without expecting this kind of thing to happen. If you don't like it, start your own private server or play on SP. People who want to game to change over these petty matters are simply being selfish.
K, not buying it. Where are you getting all of this iron? Are you actually full clearing chunks? All 285 that you'd need just to get the amount that you have "left over"? I've actually done a good bit of clearing at bedrock level, and before enchants it was barely sustainable using iron and diamond picks- I had to resort to stone occasionally. Even with enchants you can run out of diamond.
What percentage of your time do you actually spend building compared to mining? Or am I supposed to believe that you just found that much iron sitting around on the surface?
you are ignorant, so to finally put this to rest.
:dry.gif: a grinder isn't exponential growth because you get a constant rate of return from it.
ie. the amount of drops will only be what the grinder is capable of producing. a grinder is not capable of increasing its production of drops over time. it drops iron at a constant rate (so many drops per hour) given that golems always drop the same amount of iron ingots - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth
:dry.gif: also mining isn't a diminishing return. not even close.
The law of diminishing returns (also law of diminishing marginal returns or law of increasing relative cost) states that in all productive processes, adding more of one factor of production, while holding all others constant, will at some point yield lower per-unit returns. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns)
This means by mining more iron the total amount of iron that you are able to collect will decrease exponentially depending on how much you mine. this is not true.
ie. a pick will mine so many iron blocks before it breaks. it will always mine the same amount. this is constant. the time it takes you for mine iron varies slightly, but will always be roughly the same everytime since iron is very common.
----------------------------------------------------------
Therefore, mining and a mob traps both give a constant rate of return. (mining is not quite constant, because time can vary slightly, but it is very close)
if you graphed the production of iron for both mining and a mob trap the line would be flat at a set amount per hour. it is constant, or near constant.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Next time only use terminology when you know what it means because you are dead wrong on this one.