There's been a lot of debate on here about mob farming and how its and "exploit," however I would disagree and here's why...
Mob farmers mine, explore, chop wood, fight and kill mobs, and collect resources just as everyone else does. How else do you think they get the materials for their traps?
Mobs should drop items whether or not they are killed by the player. (you already miss out on the xp)
This is the main argument that I see against mob traps:
Mining is more about adventure and exploration than a grinder is. :/
i disagree.
a grinder is more inventive and requires a vast knowledge of the game, to manipulate the game environment using the resources you collected/explored for and discovered. you need to knowledge of how redstone works, how mobs work, where to explore to find the resources you need, how to craft your materials, and constructing the mob trap.
and what's your point? say for argument sake what your saying is true - then people are only allowed to play the game, the way YOU play the game?
that doesn't sound very fun and doesn't fit with the model of a sandbox game.
Now take iron farming for example:
(Jeb is looking at nerfing the spawn rate, which i agree with - Jeb's Twitter)
1) you must 1st find a npc village, a water source, and a lava source
2) get the npcs to the proper population to spawn several golems.
3) collect/mine/make materials
4) then build it
5) get the npcs inside it (probably with rails and rail cars/you can also have them mate and drop into your trap)
6) there's a fair bit of ingenuity involved in making a farm and knowledge about how mobs and redstone works.
That being said, think about how many arrows, spider eyes, string, etc. you could get if you spent all of that time killing mobs instead of making a mob trap - in the same amount of time you would have gotten roughly the same amount of items. (they are low grade items anyway)
the only difference is that to build a mob trap it requires a lot of ingenuity and collecting lots of resources. it isn't easy - it is inventive and challenging.
Now imagine trying to build and defend a mob trap on a survival pvp/server!
Please make all mob drops farmable.
(Mobs don't have to be killed by the player to drop items)
There's been a lot of debate on here about mob farming and how its and "exploit," however I would disagree and here's why...
Mob farmers mine, explore, chop wood, fight and kill mobs, and collect resources just as everyone else does. How else do you think they get the materials for their traps?
Mobs should drop items whether or not they are killed by the player. (you already miss out on the xp)
Now take iron farming for example:
(i think their drop rate is good, their spawn rate just needs to be nerfed slightly)
1) you must 1st find a npc village, a water source, and a lava source
2) get the npcs to the proper population to spawn several golems.
3) collect/mine/make redstone, pistons, rails, lava buckets, smooth stone, coal, furnances, pressure plates, rail cars, doors, glass, pick, other tools, iron ingots, water buckets, repeaters, etc.
4) then build it
5) get the npcs inside it (probably with rails and rail cars)
6) there's a fair bit of ingenuity involved in making a farm and knowledge about how mobs and redstone works.
That being said, think about how many arrows, spider eyes, string, etc. you could get if you spent all of that time killing mobs instead of making a mob trap - in the same amount of time you would have gotten roughly the same amount of items.
the only difference is that to build a mob trap it requires a lot of ingenuity and collecting lots of resources.
Now imagine trying to build and defend a mob trap on a survival pvp server!
Whoever had the first golem farm up on the faction server I play on completely shitwrecked the other factions.
It's turning into whoever has the most golem farms now.
Face it. Legit golem farms are the new end game in terms of efficiency+resources.
Did you really need to make your own topic about this?
Anyway, in the long run it's easier to make a farm. Sure it's a pain in the ass to build but once it's built, then it's built. You don't have to do anything. I also don't understand why people want the game to be harder, yet don't care about farms... Not directed at you I'm just sayin'.
Whoever had the first golem farm up on the faction server I play on completely shitwrecked the other factions.
It's turning into whoever has the most golem farms now.
Face it. Legit golem farms are the new end game in terms of efficiency+resources.
TNT. :Flint and Steel:
Either way, it is up to the server admin to add balance to the game. If the admin thinks it is already balanced, then it is up to you. If you don't like it, you don't have to do it, and that is really the only thing you can say on this topic. In the spirit of "live and let live", if you don't like mob farms/grinders, don't make them. It's really that simple.
I have an idea! Let's put the farms in a place where others can't find em!
Like far from our base?
Exactly!
Jokes aside, iron is reasonably strong and it came down to who had more equipment then the other.
Because the golem team was completely stocked up, they still lolzerged the other bases.
I have an idea! Let's put the farms in a place where others can't find em!
Like far from our base?
Exactly!
Jokes aside, iron is reasonably strong and it came down to who had more equipment then the other.
Because the golem team was completely stocked up, they still lolzerged the other bases.
I'm missing something here. What is keeping your faction from moving to a secretive location and building an iron farm?
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I've been a Minecraft player since Beta 1.7, still my favorite game!
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
We saw this topic about millions on times on the forums and as always is going to get to anything than a flame wars IMHO. Im going to reply to OP post anyways just to give my humle opinion.
Mobs have a certain spawn conditions and those conditions might be positivly checked by player-made buildings. On some of the updates, the Mojang gave a kick by adding more dificulties to those conditions (like lighting all huge cave systems and mob behavior). Now, the spawn conditions, the mob behavior etc ARE part of the game coding.
One of the things i like from minecraft is the "freewill". The player can build a mob farm if he worked to do it and we know its quite a work to get everything done, for some mobs. The coding is there, is up to the player to evaluate to play how he/she wants to play the game.
Mobs have a certain spawn conditions and those conditions might be positivly checked by player-made buildings. On some of the updates, the Mojang gave a kick by adding more dificulties to those conditions (like lighting all huge cave systems and mob behavior). Now, the spawn conditions, the mob behavior etc ARE part of the game coding.
One of the things i like from minecraft is the "freewill". The player can build a mob farm if he worked to do it and we know its quite a work to get everything done, for some mobs. The coding is there, is up to the player to evaluate to play how he/she wants to play the game.
Redstone kinda uses tremendous utility if you can not longer automate mob traps. The only time i started actually needing more then 10 redstone is when i started making automated systems.
The thing about farming iron is, if you set it up, it takes no other effort afterwards.
From exp grinders, you have to at least waste energy killing the mobs or using potions. Item farming is still fairly 'expliotatious' except for the fact that you don't get ores and the devices used for them are much more complicated then:
wood, stone, and a bucket to make an iron farm
Simply put, it trumps other mob farms in simplicity and usefulness.
Sure, someone can go farm diamond, but how long will it last against an endless horde of iron-clad? You kill the guy with diamond and he'll have to MINE AND TAKE TIME AND ENERGY to get it back instead of WALKING OVER TO A COLLECTION POINT.
The thing about farming iron is, if you set it up, it takes no other effort afterwards.
you are not taking into consideration the ingenuity and time it takes to gather the resources, find an npc village, get the npc to the proper population, and build it. if you take that amount of time and focus on collecting only iron you will be able to gather a lifetime supply of iron.
the amount of time and work is the same. here an example:
Person A:
with a mob farm he works for a long time in the beginning and receives no iron and use up what items he has. it takes a long time before he receives any iron from his trap, but then he begins receiving iron quickly once its built.
Person B:
gathers items from the environment and works and gathers iron constantly. he has iron sooner and has been collecting it for longer than the iron farmer so he has built up a large stock pile.
it works out to each person gathering roughly the same amount over the same period of time.
From exp grinders, you have to at least waste energy killing the mobs or using potions. Item farming is still fairly 'expliotatious' except for the fact that you don't get ores and the devices used for them are much more complicated then:
wood, stone, and a bucket to make an iron farm
Simply put, it trumps other mob farms in simplicity and usefulness.
Not true.
it is much more complicated than anyother mob trap. and you need way more resources to build it than you have listed.
Perhaps you should read the OP before posting an opinion that isn't based on any facts.
(i mean this in the nicest way)
Perhaps you should read the OP before posting an opinion that isn't based on any facts.
Perhaps you should read Kyo's posts before you reply to them.
Who cares about the initial investment required to build a mob grinder, when it consistently gives greater returns than would be accomplished by mining or fighting, for an indefinite amount of time afterward? It's called a difficulty curve, and in the case of this grinder, that curve is just too steep to justify keeping it in the game as-is.
I think it's funny that you guys are only thinking of the balance for factions.. That has nothing to do with minecraft balance.. If there is no factions people can just go wreck the golem farms, or take them for themselves and get all the iron. lol gay factions is gay. :tongue.gif:
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Anyone interested in a small PvP CTF server? Check out my post!
Perhaps you should read Kyo's posts before you reply to them.
Who cares about the initial investment required to build a mob grinder, when it consistently gives greater returns than would be accomplished by mining or fighting, for an indefinite amount of time afterward? It's called a difficulty curve, and in the case of this grinder, that curve is just too steep to justify keeping it in the game as-is.
Perhaps you should read the OP as well.
But, I'm not going to get into a flame war with either of you, so i will re-post part of the OP:
1) you must 1st find a npc village, a water source, and a lava source
2) get the npcs to the proper population to spawn several golems.
3) collect/mine/make redstone, pistons, rails, lava buckets, smooth stone, coal, furnances, pressure plates, rail cars, doors, glass, pick, other tools, iron ingots, water buckets, repeaters, etc.
4) then build it
5) get the npcs inside it (probably with rails and rail cars)
6) there's a fair bit of ingenuity involved in making a farm and knowledge about how mobs and redstone works.
How is this not challenging? You have to engage in every aspect of the game before you are ready to build your trap, then you have to have the ingenuity to build it.
-----------------------------------------------
i will also ask how much iron do you really need? if you have 50 blocks of iron, would 100 blocks give you any advantage?
No. - because once you have a lifetime supply, you have a lifetime supply.
Besides there are many materials that are way better than iron and more advantageous to have. an iron farm will never make anyone unstoppable.
it is much more complicated than anyother mob trap. and you need way more resources to build it than you have listed.
Perhaps you should read the OP before posting an opinion that isn't based on any facts.[/b]
(i mean this in the nicest way)
Does this take more then wood for signs+pressure plates, dirt blocks, and a bucket?
It doesn't, in fact, it took less then what I said.
You don't even need stone..
Get 2 villagers in a room, seal it, put doors around it, wait for population in that room to reach 15, put a hole and a sign as a collection point, make mob trap out of dirt/signs/lava/water.
Done.
Yes, you can mine, but you won't have to mine anymore now that you can walk passed your collection point. There will be no walking down long shafts for more iron, just walking over to a spot.
Law of diminishing return(mining) vs. exponential growth(simple farm).
Mob farmers mine, explore, chop wood, fight and kill mobs, and collect resources just as everyone else does. How else do you think they get the materials for their traps?
Mobs should drop items whether or not they are killed by the player. (you already miss out on the xp)
This is the main argument that I see against mob traps:
i disagree.
a grinder is more inventive and requires a vast knowledge of the game, to manipulate the game environment using the resources you collected/explored for and discovered. you need to knowledge of how redstone works, how mobs work, where to explore to find the resources you need, how to craft your materials, and constructing the mob trap.
and what's your point?
say for argument sake what your saying is true - then people are only allowed to play the game, the way YOU play the game?
that doesn't sound very fun and doesn't fit with the model of a sandbox game.
Now take iron farming for example:
(Jeb is looking at nerfing the spawn rate, which i agree with - Jeb's Twitter)
1) you must 1st find a npc village, a water source, and a lava source
2) get the npcs to the proper population to spawn several golems.
3) collect/mine/make materials
4) then build it
5) get the npcs inside it (probably with rails and rail cars/you can also have them mate and drop into your trap)
6) there's a fair bit of ingenuity involved in making a farm and knowledge about how mobs and redstone works.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i dont see what difference it makes if you farm iron, or mine it.
iron is easy to find.
in the time it would take you to collect your materials for the iron farm, then build it, you could have mined a life time supply of iron already.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That being said, think about how many arrows, spider eyes, string, etc. you could get if you spent all of that time killing mobs instead of making a mob trap - in the same amount of time you would have gotten roughly the same amount of items. (they are low grade items anyway)
the only difference is that to build a mob trap it requires a lot of ingenuity and collecting lots of resources.
it isn't easy - it is inventive and challenging.
Now imagine trying to build and defend a mob trap on a survival pvp/server!
Please make all mob drops farmable.
(Mobs don't have to be killed by the player to drop items)
Whoever had the first golem farm up on the faction server I play on completely shitwrecked the other factions.
It's turning into whoever has the most golem farms now.
Face it. Legit golem farms are the new end game in terms of efficiency+resources.
Anyway, in the long run it's easier to make a farm. Sure it's a pain in the ass to build but once it's built, then it's built. You don't have to do anything. I also don't understand why people want the game to be harder, yet don't care about farms... Not directed at you I'm just sayin'.
TNT. :Flint and Steel:
Either way, it is up to the server admin to add balance to the game. If the admin thinks it is already balanced, then it is up to you. If you don't like it, you don't have to do it, and that is really the only thing you can say on this topic. In the spirit of "live and let live", if you don't like mob farms/grinders, don't make them. It's really that simple.
iron isn't that strategically advantageous for this to happen IMO... unless everyone else on the server only has leather armour and stone swords... :S
Besides you could wreck the iron farmers with TNT, lava, and diamonds.
why didn't you try killing all of their npcs?... they don't respawn :S
Yes.
Like far from our base?
Exactly!
Jokes aside, iron is reasonably strong and it came down to who had more equipment then the other.
Because the golem team was completely stocked up, they still lolzerged the other bases.
I'm missing something here. What is keeping your faction from moving to a secretive location and building an iron farm?
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
Or getting.... TNT, lava, and diamonds?
or if that fails search for their iron farm and kill all their npcs/destroy the farm? :S
i don't care what you say iron isn't strategically advantageous.
Well you can think whatever you like.
What I seen is that if you have an iron farm in a hidden location, you can just post someone there and you're suddenly done getting your equipment.
No one cares for diamonds anymore, since all surviving factions are loaded with iron. No shortages, pure iron. Forever.
Mobs have a certain spawn conditions and those conditions might be positivly checked by player-made buildings. On some of the updates, the Mojang gave a kick by adding more dificulties to those conditions (like lighting all huge cave systems and mob behavior). Now, the spawn conditions, the mob behavior etc ARE part of the game coding.
One of the things i like from minecraft is the "freewill". The player can build a mob farm if he worked to do it and we know its quite a work to get everything done, for some mobs. The coding is there, is up to the player to evaluate to play how he/she wants to play the game.
I agree.
Most likely the spawn rate will be nerfed, which i agree with.
https://twitter.com/#!/jeb_/status/173039984687845377
From exp grinders, you have to at least waste energy killing the mobs or using potions. Item farming is still fairly 'expliotatious' except for the fact that you don't get ores and the devices used for them are much more complicated then:
wood, stone, and a bucket to make an iron farm
Simply put, it trumps other mob farms in simplicity and usefulness.
Sure, someone can go farm diamond, but how long will it last against an endless horde of iron-clad? You kill the guy with diamond and he'll have to MINE AND TAKE TIME AND ENERGY to get it back instead of WALKING OVER TO A COLLECTION POINT.
you are not taking into consideration the ingenuity and time it takes to gather the resources, find an npc village, get the npc to the proper population, and build it. if you take that amount of time and focus on collecting only iron you will be able to gather a lifetime supply of iron.
the amount of time and work is the same.
here an example:
Person A:
with a mob farm he works for a long time in the beginning and receives no iron and use up what items he has. it takes a long time before he receives any iron from his trap, but then he begins receiving iron quickly once its built.
Person B:
gathers items from the environment and works and gathers iron constantly. he has iron sooner and has been collecting it for longer than the iron farmer so he has built up a large stock pile.
it works out to each person gathering roughly the same amount over the same period of time.
Not true.
it is much more complicated than anyother mob trap. and you need way more resources to build it than you have listed.
Perhaps you should read the OP before posting an opinion that isn't based on any facts.
(i mean this in the nicest way)
Perhaps you should read Kyo's posts before you reply to them.
Who cares about the initial investment required to build a mob grinder, when it consistently gives greater returns than would be accomplished by mining or fighting, for an indefinite amount of time afterward? It's called a difficulty curve, and in the case of this grinder, that curve is just too steep to justify keeping it in the game as-is.
Perhaps you should read the OP as well.
But, I'm not going to get into a flame war with either of you, so i will re-post part of the OP:
1) you must 1st find a npc village, a water source, and a lava source
2) get the npcs to the proper population to spawn several golems.
3) collect/mine/make redstone, pistons, rails, lava buckets, smooth stone, coal, furnances, pressure plates, rail cars, doors, glass, pick, other tools, iron ingots, water buckets, repeaters, etc.
4) then build it
5) get the npcs inside it (probably with rails and rail cars)
6) there's a fair bit of ingenuity involved in making a farm and knowledge about how mobs and redstone works.
How is this not challenging? You have to engage in every aspect of the game before you are ready to build your trap, then you have to have the ingenuity to build it.
-----------------------------------------------
i will also ask how much iron do you really need? if you have 50 blocks of iron, would 100 blocks give you any advantage?
No. - because once you have a lifetime supply, you have a lifetime supply.
Besides there are many materials that are way better than iron and more advantageous to have. an iron farm will never make anyone unstoppable.
It doesn't, in fact, it took less then what I said.
You don't even need stone..
Get 2 villagers in a room, seal it, put doors around it, wait for population in that room to reach 15, put a hole and a sign as a collection point, make mob trap out of dirt/signs/lava/water.
Done.
Yes, you can mine, but you won't have to mine anymore now that you can walk passed your collection point. There will be no walking down long shafts for more iron, just walking over to a spot.
Law of diminishing return(mining) vs. exponential growth(simple farm).