Seems like you need to right click a block, like a fence, with a bucket in order to "fill" the block with water, turning it into a source block. Otherwise, water will not flow through like it showed in the Update Aquatic reveal. Sounds really, really janky fix as a response to but muh farmz.
Oh well. Thoughts?
Added to the post. I hope that how they do it doesn't just make the water physics more inconsistent though; this seems like it could just make it more confusing.
I hope that how they do it doesn't just make the water physics more inconsistent though; this seems like it could just make it more confusing.
Seems pretty clear to me. If you want water to flow through your fences, "just add water (by rightclicking on it with a bucket)". What is less clear is how that source will behave. Will it be a "true" source, where water flows outwards in all directions up to 7 blocks away (two flows of water moving in opposing directions) or will it be a second type of source block that accepts water flowing into it and continues/resets that flow on the other sides (like a repeater for water flows)?
Well, I would have preferred my solution [leave current water-stop fences etc as is and add new blocks for water-flow fences etc], but I'm cautiously optimistic…
No current builds get griefed and players who hate "air bubbles" get a way not to have them.
quotes attributed to Jeb
"The things that we showed at Minecon may have been too much, so we're
trying more simple way of doing the water physics, more similar to the
old style. The most important thing is to have non solid blocks inside
water, like stairs and fences, but the way we're gonna do it is that if you have a fence and you put water on it, that's gonna be a water source block, but water itself won't flow through fences [...] because that would break a lot of contraptions that people make using trapdoors and such."
"We want water physics to work like they do today. The difference is that you can put water on the fence, and then the fence will be inside water"
@ DuhDerp:
My hope is that placing a source block on a fence post (standing on a level surface) will result in the same pattern of flow one now sees, but with the post in the center (source) block… [but that's not the way I read the most recent description…]
It sounds to me more like placing water on a fence will definitely create visual presence, and MAY pass items through the fence, but one would need water sources on both sides on the fence to get the "cane through fence" effect demoed…
.
quote=Vampire_Asunder "Sounds really, really janky fix as a response to but muh farmz."
Sub-optimal compared to having both water-flow & water-stop versions of blocks, but it at least gives the "bubble-haters" the ability to make their builds look "nice" whereas the previous change would have irredeemably broken a number of longstanding and common builds (eg water-brake drop shafts).
This may also be a temporary solution to avoid throwing 1.14 off-schedule, with full implementation of a form of fences, etc that allow water flow coming in 1.15 etc.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
This may also be a temporary solution to avoid throwing 1.14 off-schedule, with full implementation of a form of fences, etc that allow water flow coming in 1.15 etc.
Really doubtful. I feel like Jeb would tell us if it was a temporary fix. "We want water physics to work like they do
today. The difference is that you can put water on the fence, and then
the fence will be inside water" is the nail in the coffin for that, imo. New, interesting waterfeatures were cut in twain as soon as he said "we want water physics to work like they do today."
Anyway. While I still think the ability to have water source blocks in non-solid blocks is better than not having it, I still think they should reconsider. This is an extremely weird fix, and a case where a vocal anti-change minority was listened to more than the majority, who would welcome innovative change to the game. It's kinda sad, because you can tell some code went into the stuff we saw in the update reveal.
Oh and Jens reasoning for no penguins also made me super duper mad but that's a topic for another day.
This may also be a temporary solution to avoid throwing 1.14 off-schedule, with full implementation of a form of fences, etc that allow water flow coming in 1.15 etc.
Schedule? Why not spending more time on it instead waiting for 1.15?
Instead releasing 3 updates in a year, why not 2 updates in a year.
Will they lose money if they're not following their schedules?
I was excited about the water changes. I WANTED it to work like in the reveal.
Currently, we have to deal with the air pockets, no two ways about it. At the reveal it looked like we were challenged to find new ways of creating air bubbles in order to breathe in our underwater bases. Now it's all the same exept we have to go through the effort to get rid of air bubbles with buckets.
This is even less realistic or immersive or any positive adjective I can think of right now than the current way.
The only People that will be happy about that are builders who are too lazy to redisign their elevators, farms and redstone builds.
If this is really how it is going, I will not touch 1.14 until there is a mod that fixes that!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I just took the Minecraft Noob test! Check out what I scored. Think you can beat me?!
Roughly 95% of Minecraft
players hate Villagers and would be very happy if they were removed. If
you are one of the 5% who actually like villagers, copy this into your
signature and hope it never happens. ~EnderDude124
quote=ScotsMiser
This may also be a temporary solution to avoid throwing 1.14 off-schedule, with full implementation of a form of fences, etc that allow water flow coming in 1.15 etc.
quote=Vampire_Asunder
Really doubtful.[…]
I still think they should reconsider […] a case where a vocal anti-change minority was listened to more than the majority, who would welcome innovative change to the game.
Firstly, I think it likely the actual majority of players either:
was unaware of the upcoming water physics changes
OR
had some periphrial awarness, but had not thought through many of the implications of those changes.
.[I strongly suspect that the percentage of total MC players reading the various announcements and board discussions (much less participating) is comparatively small.]
Secondly, "innovative"' while by definition a synonm for 'new' or 'novel', carries a [i]connotation[/i] of 'advanced' or 'improved'; which point – in reference to the originally announced 1.14 water-physics – is very much open to debate.
Thirdly, while there were "anti-change" opinions posted, there were also those (myself among them) who would have welcomed the new water-physics [i]provided it was implemented without griefing existing worlds and builds[/i].
Rather than cast yourself as the oppressed [pseudo-] majority deprived of of new and 'funerer' features by a minority of vocal reactionaries, you would better advance your agenda [which I take to be the inclusion of water-flow fences etc.] by
taking heart that MS/Mj listened to the concerns of a "vocal … minority"
AND
working [i]with[/i] the 'change without griefing' supporters to build a sufficiently numerous "vocal … minority" that MS/Mj will acceed to your request for new mechanics.
To that end "but muh farmz. " comments and mis-representing 'change without griefing' as "anti-change" are both counterproductive….
Should you – instead – be able to show MS/Mj a way of implementing mechanics you want [i]without[/i] alienating another "vocal … minority", my feeling is that "We want water physics to work like they do today. [emphasis added]" would rapidly change to "We want water physics to work like they do today… but to include these new cool features…
… a 'win' for all parties.
EDIT [i]italics tags seem broken :dunno: [/i]
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
It really does suck, though, that I just started a new world in 1.12.2.
It'd be nice if they made "necessary" updates all consecutively, as opposed to ten thousand "filler" updates (like 1.10) that just make situations like this happen. If there weren't as many filler updates, the end to "I'm going to have to create a new world so that I can play the game with an update that should have come out four years ago" would be a lot sooner.
This is a pretty bad way of handling it. Wasted effort, too; the new water physics made sense and addressed a long-standing “problem”.
If you wanted to make sure that the update wouldn't break farms, you could either make it so that old waterflow isn't updated until it receives a block update (meaning that old farms continue functioning until they're altered), or simply make it a gamerule that's off by default (so old worlds function as before, but you can enable water flowing later through semi-transparent blocks after you've changed your arms, or if you're creating a new world).
This is a pretty bad way of handling it. Wasted effort, too; the new water physics made sense and addressed a long-standing “problem”.
If you wanted to make sure that the update wouldn't break farms, you could either make it so that old waterflow isn't updated until it receives a block update (meaning that old farms continue functioning until they're altered), or simply make it a gamerule that's off by default (so old worlds function as before, but you can enable water flowing later through semi-transparent blocks after you've changed your arms, or if you're creating a new world).
I quite like the idea of it being a game rule setting, set to off by default, that would be good way of handling such a major change for some (me included) ...
This is a pretty bad way of handling it. Wasted effort, too; the new water physics made sense and addressed a long-standing “problem”.
If you wanted to make sure that the update wouldn't break farms, you could either make it so that old waterflow isn't updated until it receives a block update (meaning that old farms continue functioning until they're altered), or simply make it a gamerule that's off by default (so old worlds function as before, but you can enable water flowing later through semi-transparent blocks after you've changed your arms, or if you're creating a new world).
I have no idea how you're building your farms to even be worried about the water destroying your crops. I've long since dug trenches for the water and covered them with half slabs to keep my veggies from falling in. No problems what so ever with water messing up crops this way.
Agreed. Besides, with how extensive this update is and how much it changes, it's going to break old worlds anyway. People REALLY want to use the old water physics and old world maps they'll play in an older version like I know people still do for preferred mods etc.
I for one am VERY MUCH looking forward to the new water physics update. I'll finally be able to build that bridge on stilts (fences) going into the water, without it chunking off the water block and looking horrid.
Roughly 95% of Minecraft
players hate Villagers and would be very happy if they were removed. If
you are one of the 5% who actually like villagers, copy this into your
signature and hope it never happens. ~EnderDude124
I have no idea how you're building your farms to even be worried about the water destroying your crops. I've long since dug trenches for the water and covered them with half slabs to keep my veggies from falling in. No problems what so ever with water messing up crops this way.
Agreed. Besides, with how extensive this update is and how much it changes, it's going to break old worlds anyway. People REALLY want to use the old water physics and old world maps they'll play in an older version like I know people still do for preferred mods etc.
I for one am VERY MUCH looking forward to the new water physics update. I'll finally be able to build that bridge on stilts (fences) going into the water, without it chunking off the water block and looking horrid.
Have fun placing a water bucket on each and every post.
Have fun placing a water bucket on each and every post.
Maybe someone will. I know I'll hate it.
I mean, if they just told us there will be a way to remove the air pockets, I would not really complain. I would maybe post something about "Why not the other way around? Like remove the air pockets by default and make it possible to create air pockets with a bucket?", but that would be it.
After them promising us just that and then going from "Water will just flow through blocks that it makes sense that it flows through" to "You will be able to remove air pockets with a bucket if you want."
I expected changes like doors stopping water when closed but let it through when open or the other way around, depending on where the water block is. Maybe for Lava too.
But then came the comments where everyone yelled "MY FARMS WILL BREAK!!! MY FARMS WILL BREAK!!! MY FARMS WILL BREAK!!! MY FARMS WILL BREAK!!!" and the entire thing turned into... well... that. Nothing.
Now I am trying to decide if just keeping the air pockets and not having any way of removing them from the builds is better than the bucket thing.
What could work as a compromise would be that placing a fence, a trap door or a ladder or any other such block doesn't remove the water if it is placed in water, neither flowing nor source, but if it already is placed outside of water, it will only let water through if water is placed directly on it. If water is placed next to it when it was "dry" before, it will not fill with water.
Items that swim in water will still let the items through, the door thing would still work, my creeper-farm-idea would still be doable and the other farms would still work as before. Win-Win.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I just took the Minecraft Noob test! Check out what I scored. Think you can beat me?!
Roughly 95% of Minecraft
players hate Villagers and would be very happy if they were removed. If
you are one of the 5% who actually like villagers, copy this into your
signature and hope it never happens. ~EnderDude124
Y'know, it's not the end of the world just because you have to use a bucket now. Last I checked getting a bucket of water doesn't require a trek over the sahara desert or anything. Especially when you're in a body of water.
It doesn't make Minecraft unplayable. After all, we currently have no way of removing the air pockets at all.
The update aquatic tries to make the underwater building less restrictive by allowing us to place transparent blocks other than glass blocks without the air pockets. That in itself is great.
And while water buckets are not exactly expansive, I still expect it to be a pain in the butt haveing to waterbucket every block I place underwater that isn't a full block, just to get rit of the air pockets.
To the point where I seriously think about if not being able to get rid of them at all is better than being able to, but only in a lenghy, tedious proccess, when it could have been compleatly different.
When building an underwater base, I would prefer worrying about how to breathe there over worrying about how to get rid of the air where it is not needed. But yeah, maybe it IS just me and me alone...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I just took the Minecraft Noob test! Check out what I scored. Think you can beat me?!
Roughly 95% of Minecraft
players hate Villagers and would be very happy if they were removed. If
you are one of the 5% who actually like villagers, copy this into your
signature and hope it never happens. ~EnderDude124
Added to the post. I hope that how they do it doesn't just make the water physics more inconsistent though; this seems like it could just make it more confusing.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Seems pretty clear to me. If you want water to flow through your fences, "just add water (by rightclicking on it with a bucket)". What is less clear is how that source will behave. Will it be a "true" source, where water flows outwards in all directions up to 7 blocks away (two flows of water moving in opposing directions) or will it be a second type of source block that accepts water flowing into it and continues/resets that flow on the other sides (like a repeater for water flows)?
Well, I would have preferred my solution [leave current water-stop fences etc as is and add new blocks for water-flow fences etc], but I'm cautiously optimistic…
No current builds get griefed and players who hate "air bubbles" get a way not to have them.
quotes attributed to Jeb
"The things that we showed at Minecon may have been too much, so we're
trying more simple way of doing the water physics, more similar to the
old style. The most important thing is to have non solid blocks inside
water, like stairs and fences, but the way we're gonna do it is that if you have a fence and you put water on it, that's gonna be a water source block, but water itself won't flow through fences [...] because that would break a lot of contraptions that people make using trapdoors and such."
"We want water physics to work like they do today. The difference is that you can put water on the fence, and then the fence will be inside water"
@ DuhDerp:
My hope is that placing a source block on a fence post (standing on a level surface) will result in the same pattern of flow one now sees, but with the post in the center (source) block… [but that's not the way I read the most recent description…]
It sounds to me more like placing water on a fence will definitely create visual presence, and MAY pass items through the fence, but one would need water sources on both sides on the fence to get the "cane through fence" effect demoed…
.
quote=Vampire_Asunder "Sounds really, really janky fix as a response to but muh farmz."
Sub-optimal compared to having both water-flow & water-stop versions of blocks, but it at least gives the "bubble-haters" the ability to make their builds look "nice" whereas the previous change would have irredeemably broken a number of longstanding and common builds (eg water-brake drop shafts).
This may also be a temporary solution to avoid throwing 1.14 off-schedule, with full implementation of a form of fences, etc that allow water flow coming in 1.15 etc.
My brother loves tridents. I think he is insane but I like this idea.
Don't pretend to be someone you aren't. Be yourself. Even if you try to be someone else ill knows its you. Your a terrible actor.
Really doubtful. I feel like Jeb would tell us if it was a temporary fix. "We want water physics to work like they do
today. The difference is that you can put water on the fence, and then
the fence will be inside water" is the nail in the coffin for that, imo. New, interesting waterfeatures were cut in twain as soon as he said "we want water physics to work like they do today."
Anyway. While I still think the ability to have water source blocks in non-solid blocks is better than not having it, I still think they should reconsider. This is an extremely weird fix, and a case where a vocal anti-change minority was listened to more than the majority, who would welcome innovative change to the game. It's kinda sad, because you can tell some code went into the stuff we saw in the update reveal.
Oh and Jens reasoning for no penguins also made me super duper mad but that's a topic for another day.
The quickest way to my heart is with a smile.
Oh, and a white-oak stake.
Schedule? Why not spending more time on it instead waiting for 1.15?
Instead releasing 3 updates in a year, why not 2 updates in a year.
Will they lose money if they're not following their schedules?
It's about new updates, not new games.
My videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/robingravel
My cartoons: http://www.dailymotion.com/robin-gravel
Flash Animation (if your computer supports flash):
http://robingravel.byethost15.com/eflash.htm
Few flash movies have easter egg/extras
I was excited about the water changes. I WANTED it to work like in the reveal.
Currently, we have to deal with the air pockets, no two ways about it. At the reveal it looked like we were challenged to find new ways of creating air bubbles in order to breathe in our underwater bases. Now it's all the same exept we have to go through the effort to get rid of air bubbles with buckets.
This is even less realistic or immersive or any positive adjective I can think of right now than the current way.
The only People that will be happy about that are builders who are too lazy to redisign their elevators, farms and redstone builds.
If this is really how it is going, I will not touch 1.14 until there is a mod that fixes that!
Roughly 95% of Minecraft
players hate Villagers and would be very happy if they were removed. If
you are one of the 5% who actually like villagers, copy this into your
signature and hope it never happens. ~EnderDude124
quote=ScotsMiser
This may also be a temporary solution to avoid throwing 1.14 off-schedule, with full implementation of a form of fences, etc that allow water flow coming in 1.15 etc.
quote=Vampire_Asunder
Really doubtful.[…]
I still think they should reconsider […] a case where a vocal anti-change minority was listened to more than the majority, who would welcome innovative change to the game.
Firstly, I think it likely the actual majority of players either:
.[I strongly suspect that the percentage of total MC players reading the various announcements and board discussions (much less participating) is comparatively small.]
Secondly, "innovative"' while by definition a synonm for 'new' or 'novel', carries a [i]connotation[/i] of 'advanced' or 'improved'; which point – in reference to the originally announced 1.14 water-physics – is very much open to debate.
Thirdly, while there were "anti-change" opinions posted, there were also those (myself among them) who would have welcomed the new water-physics [i]provided it was implemented without griefing existing worlds and builds[/i].
Rather than cast yourself as the oppressed [pseudo-] majority deprived of of new and 'funerer' features by a minority of vocal reactionaries, you would better advance your agenda [which I take to be the inclusion of water-flow fences etc.] by
To that end "but muh farmz. " comments and mis-representing 'change without griefing' as "anti-change" are both counterproductive….
Should you – instead – be able to show MS/Mj a way of implementing mechanics you want [i]without[/i] alienating another "vocal … minority", my feeling is that "We want water physics to work like they do today. [emphasis added]" would rapidly change to "We want water physics to work like they do today… but to include these new cool features…
… a 'win' for all parties.
EDIT [i]italics tags seem broken :dunno: [/i]
I am super excited to get my hands on this update! They are adding tons of stuff to do which is absolutely amazing.
The ocean was definitely a bland place before, even with the guardian temples.
It really does suck, though, that I just started a new world in 1.12.2.
Joined Minecraft - January 2013
It'd be nice if they made "necessary" updates all consecutively, as opposed to ten thousand "filler" updates (like 1.10) that just make situations like this happen. If there weren't as many filler updates, the end to "I'm going to have to create a new world so that I can play the game with an update that should have come out four years ago" would be a lot sooner.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
This is far from a bad way of handling it.
Figured it was time for a change.
https://minecraft.net/en-us/article/java-edition-technically-updated
Update Aquatic is now 1.13 and is merged with the technical update.
Means we'll get a snapshot quicker.
I quite like the idea of it being a game rule setting, set to off by default, that would be good way of handling such a major change for some (me included) ...
Mintutor now works in 1.13!
MrKite & Mc_Etlam ... I salute you!
If you go to gamepedia, they have come up with a name for it! "Phantoms"
https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/1.13
=>>Story of my life<<=
I have no idea how you're building your farms to even be worried about the water destroying your crops. I've long since dug trenches for the water and covered them with half slabs to keep my veggies from falling in. No problems what so ever with water messing up crops this way.
Agreed. Besides, with how extensive this update is and how much it changes, it's going to break old worlds anyway. People REALLY want to use the old water physics and old world maps they'll play in an older version like I know people still do for preferred mods etc.
I for one am VERY MUCH looking forward to the new water physics update. I'll finally be able to build that bridge on stilts (fences) going into the water, without it chunking off the water block and looking horrid.
Updated: Aug. 24 2023 See thread for details
I think he called the fill transparent blocks with buckets bad and suggested a better alternative.
And I agree, this alternative would be much better.
Roughly 95% of Minecraft
players hate Villagers and would be very happy if they were removed. If
you are one of the 5% who actually like villagers, copy this into your
signature and hope it never happens. ~EnderDude124
Have fun placing a water bucket on each and every post.
The quickest way to my heart is with a smile.
Oh, and a white-oak stake.
Maybe someone will. I know I'll hate it.
I mean, if they just told us there will be a way to remove the air pockets, I would not really complain. I would maybe post something about "Why not the other way around? Like remove the air pockets by default and make it possible to create air pockets with a bucket?", but that would be it.
After them promising us just that and then going from "Water will just flow through blocks that it makes sense that it flows through" to "You will be able to remove air pockets with a bucket if you want."
I expected changes like doors stopping water when closed but let it through when open or the other way around, depending on where the water block is. Maybe for Lava too.
But then came the comments where everyone yelled "MY FARMS WILL BREAK!!! MY FARMS WILL BREAK!!! MY FARMS WILL BREAK!!! MY FARMS WILL BREAK!!!" and the entire thing turned into... well... that. Nothing.
Now I am trying to decide if just keeping the air pockets and not having any way of removing them from the builds is better than the bucket thing.
What could work as a compromise would be that placing a fence, a trap door or a ladder or any other such block doesn't remove the water if it is placed in water, neither flowing nor source, but if it already is placed outside of water, it will only let water through if water is placed directly on it. If water is placed next to it when it was "dry" before, it will not fill with water.
Items that swim in water will still let the items through, the door thing would still work, my creeper-farm-idea would still be doable and the other farms would still work as before. Win-Win.
Roughly 95% of Minecraft
players hate Villagers and would be very happy if they were removed. If
you are one of the 5% who actually like villagers, copy this into your
signature and hope it never happens. ~EnderDude124
Y'know, it's not the end of the world just because you have to use a bucket now. Last I checked getting a bucket of water doesn't require a trek over the sahara desert or anything. Especially when you're in a body of water.
Figured it was time for a change.
It doesn't make Minecraft unplayable. After all, we currently have no way of removing the air pockets at all.
The update aquatic tries to make the underwater building less restrictive by allowing us to place transparent blocks other than glass blocks without the air pockets. That in itself is great.
And while water buckets are not exactly expansive, I still expect it to be a pain in the butt haveing to waterbucket every block I place underwater that isn't a full block, just to get rit of the air pockets.
To the point where I seriously think about if not being able to get rid of them at all is better than being able to, but only in a lenghy, tedious proccess, when it could have been compleatly different.
When building an underwater base, I would prefer worrying about how to breathe there over worrying about how to get rid of the air where it is not needed. But yeah, maybe it IS just me and me alone...
Roughly 95% of Minecraft
players hate Villagers and would be very happy if they were removed. If
you are one of the 5% who actually like villagers, copy this into your
signature and hope it never happens. ~EnderDude124