Minecraft Forums

Quote from AThingWithAThing»

So I can see what is fun-

• PVP - They actually removed spam clicking. While the new system needs some balancing, it is a decent system.
• Map making - What did they do? Oh, wait, they added new features.
• Exploration - Added more stuff.
• Mobs - Added a new creative mob.
• Notch Apples - Considering hopw gold farms give off nuggets, it would take 648 nuggets to craft a Notch Apple. In half the time of making a gold farm, you could probably find one or two notch apples. 648 nuggets is over ten stacks.

But before this escalates, let us stop arguing before it gets too off topic.

You're the best.

I think at this point, all the reasons, whether to agree or not, have been made.

Moderators, I think we can safely lock this and let Mojang (probably Searge or Grumm) decide.

Quote from Kholdstare»

This is arguably a good thing, considering they reduce the relevance of skill in combat (which 1.9 is trying to remedy).

Think about it: the entire purpose of a god apple is to be extremely expensive (irrelevant with a gold farm) and extremely powerful. Powerful enough to kill someone solely because of that god apple, even if skill should have dictated the death of the apple-user. At least now, they're more valuable due to being finite and much rarer, meaning you'll encounter them a lot less, especially as time goes on. Eventually a server will run out completely if they have a worldborder. Definitely a good thing.

A much better idea would be their complete removal, but given the nuclear explosion that occurred when an insignificant item like the rose was removed... well, this is probably the most well-balanced thing we'll get.

Wait, people got mad because the Rose was removed? But your quote made me realize, this is going to break a lot of servers, notably Factions. And I mean BREAK. Powerful Factions are either going to
A. Be raided constantly for Apples
B. Be avoided because of their Apples
C. Go on a rampage with their Apples, then be screwed over shortly after
D. Sell their Apples for millions
So high ranking factions are going to be screwed or become insanely powerful. I wonder how long PvP focused servers will survive.

Edit: Oopsie, forgot to factor plugins in while making this statement.

Quote from IndiePhunq»

I think at this point, all the reasons, whether to agree or not, have been made.

Moderators, I think we can safely lock this and let Mojang (probably Searge or Grumm) decide.

Unless people care to counter my point made above, I'm in agreement here. (No offense to OP, we just ran out of things to discuss)

Quote from AThingWithAThing»

Factions aren't vanilla. They could easily add a recipe with plugins.

The game doesn't work around the players, the players work around the game.

I wasn't defending Factions, I hate those servers. But yeah, I didn't realize that, suppose I should've done my research.

Quote from bobotheboss111111»

YES! And after servers reset, gold will be absolutely useless and all the good old fun of PvPing with super gapples will be dead.

This won't even just break a lot of faction servers, this will break the factions gamemode in general.

And yes, noobs cared about what flowers are in minecraft.

1.Ahh yes, the gold old fun of using a gamebreaking powerup while using a broken combat system.
2. I personally have no problem with that, but that's a topic for another day.
3. Noobs is an ugly word. I didn't care for roses, but perhaps those who used them for aesthetics missed them. I don't think that's cause for public outrage however.

I am so happy! They buffed it to what it originally was. I might go back to playing pvp again!!! Every server I played the notch Apple was so op. You almost kill someone and they eat a notch Apple. Now it takes skill to kill someone. Not a person who had the most notch apples. 1.9 is going to be amazing! 🎉🎊🎉🎊💥💫✨💫🎈🎉😍😄😄😍

ok lets think about this logically,

if Notch apples are removed than no faction will have them, if nether of us have them, than nether of us have that distinct advantage over each other.

it is similar to the Sharpness/armor situation sharpness was nerfed so that sharpness 5 does 10 attack damage instead of 13, while armor was nerfed to 66% damage reduction with diamond as apposed to 80% so, by nerfing both things, you create balance,

Quote from Genius_idiot»

ok lets think about this logically,

if Notch apples are removed than no faction will have them, if nether of us have them, than nether of us have that distinct advantage over each other.

In 1.8 with crafting golden apples, if 2 factions each wanted to make a golden apple to crush their enemy, they would mine gold at roughly the same rate as their opponent due to gold being far more common and consistent, but requiring lots more to reduce the benefits of luck (If you find a gold ore in half the time compared to your opponent, you still need to find another 71 gold, and it's unlikely you'll be luckier then them another 71 times). This would result in both factions getting a golden apple in roughly the same time which is similar to having no apples at all.

But 1.9 it is pure luck now. It doesn't matter if you mine at the same speed as your opponent. If their luck gets them a golden apple before you and you don't get an apple soon after (high probability since you need to raid about 32 dungeon chests or 71 mineshaft chests to get approximately 1 apple, that's alot of time between finding apples) they could then go to your base, eat the apple and have an advantage over you that you never got because they were luckier.

Also, even if another golden apple is found, there is a 50% chance that the faction who found the first apple would find it instead! Even though it would only happen half the time while playing, it's still quite a high percentage considering the result would be one faction with 2 apples and the other having none at all!

Quote from Hex_27»

Why are there so many combat nerfs, especially equipment???

Why can I not enjoy my powerful armor I've worked so hard on?? Why? Why must it be balanced to make it "harder"?? It's not like you can't die in it. This is like making diamond armor too close to the commonly obtained iron armor! The effort difference... It's too big!

It is actually MUCH worse than that; try this - on Normal difficulty enchant a full set of diamond armor with Protection IV. Then spawn a creeper in a 1x1 hole in the ground (to reliably guarantee a direct hit; do not try this in a field of tall grass and tell me they deal barely any damage; blocks in the way, even tall grass, reduce the damage you get) and jump in. Guess what happens?

That's just inexcusable - that 66% damage reduction becomes ZERO damage reduction with the level of damage from a creeper's explosion, 49 on Normal (Protection IV still reduces it, but only by 53.3%, which allows over 11 hearts of damage through). The damage reduction formula shows why - every 2 points of damage takes away one armor point:

damage = damage * ( 1 - ( defensePoints - damage / 2 ) / 30 ).
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Armor#Upcoming_changes

I even reduced armor protection in one of my own mods - but it was independent of how much damage your received (NB: I did this long before 1.9 was in the works, even before 1.8 came out. This was a trade-off for having diamond armor with the same durability as diamond tools. Also, note that 1.9 has nerfed iron armor, which is more like chain in 1.8, and leather is basically useless (if it wasn't before); in my mod I added extra points so lower tiers were close to vanilla, thus diamond armor had less of an advantage, just as diamond swords only deal 14% more damage and tools only mine 33% faster than iron with durability being the main selling point of diamond).

Also, an interesting fact - compare creeper damage with difficulty to other mobs, e.g. skeletons or zombies - notice something? Creeper damage scales up to a MUCH greater degree with difficulty (due to how the game scales it; e.g. Easy is Normal / 2 + 1, thus spiders deal 2 on both Easy and Normal; Hard is Normal * 1.5) - this means that if you rate your armor as I do (instead of wearing maxed-out armor I only have Protection IV on two pieces and do not wear a helmet unless a mob drops one) "Hard" is actually easier than "Easy" (in other words, creeper damage is 3 times higher on Hard as Easy but skeleton damage barely increases; zombie damage doubles, and so on. Thus, to get the same amount of creeper damage after armor on Hard as on Easy you get less damage from most other sources. By upgrading my armor I can triple the average protection that I get so that is not an issue (I play on Normal and creepers can take up to 6 hearts). Of course, this is no longer possible in 1.9 so I'd only play on Easy to ensure that a creeper can never one-shot me, while still getting very good, if not better, protection from other mobs; maxed-out armor still provides up to 84.4% damage reduction).

Also, IMO Notch apples were useless - not because of their cost (hey, I mined enough gold for three the last time I played, and I had fun doing that) - but because there is almost no use for them in singleplayer; I've never seen the need for any potions either aside from Weakness (to cure villagers) and a Fire Resistance potion or two so I can get a stack of blaze rods with little effort. Maybe for fighting the Wither - not that I ever bothered doing so (in legit Survival) since the prize, beacons, are not very useful for my playstyle, and otherwise you don't really need regeneration or any of the other buffs (this will be even more true in 1.9; just eat to get faster regeneration than Regeneration II).

I also doubt that factions are going to be fighting over severely nerfed Notch apples in 1.9 - they hardly provide much of an advantage over a food like golden carrots for regeneration and most of the other effects are much more easily obtained with potions, plus splash potions can be applied almost instantly, and Absorption is lost when you take any damage (one of the 1.6 snapshots gave them Health Boost instead, which regenerates until the effect wears off).

If a server wants notch apples, they can just get a plugin. Problem solved.

Quote from PD101»

If you've been playing minecraft since the beginning like me, then you would understand the feeling that minecraft is drifting further and further away from what it originally was. Which was awesome.

Amen.


Been playing since 1.0.

Quote from bobotheboss111111»

1. Gamebreaking powerup? Thats like saying the blue shell in mariokart is "Gamebreaking"
2. Factions is the reason I am typing. If factions die, I leave, and so many others will come with me. My friends have already mostly left.
3. Flowers... WHO CARES???????????????
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A ROSE AND A POPPY IN AN AMAZING ADVENTURE SURVIVAL GAME?

Woah, I may have opened a can of worms in bringing this thread back to life.
1.How is the blue shell gamebreaking? It's easy enough to recover from it by using other powerups. Sure, it's still a bit OP, but nothing gamebreaking.
2.As TheFriendlyVillager said somewhere in this thread (or was it another thread?) Mojang doesn't care about Factions. Factions is not their problem, the updates are made for Singleplayer.
3.As I said, removing roses isn't really a cause for public outrage, but some people are attached to their aesthetics. I'd be royally ticked off I'm my precious Nether Quartz was removed, that's for sure.

And you still haven't accounted for the fact that the combat system was broken, and clearly needed a revamp. From a designers standpoint, Minecraft should not have gotten as popular as it was, because so much of it was broken and/or unfinished. When Minecraft achieved it's insane popularity, Mojang was totally blindsided, and now they're scrambling to fix the game.