Any sane person would realize when you need to adapt, or quit the game completely. If you have an infinity bow, boom. You have an unlimited number of instant damage potions, poison potions, slowness potions, etc... This is not something you have to adapt to, this is something you should leave behind because this update will ruin pvp forever.
At this point you're just trying to defend this "Stimpy" guy who you believe in, and we have no idea who the crap he is.
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Well that's a pretty absolute statement. Are you sure that it's not possible to I don't know... find a middle ground between quitting and adapting to change. Maybe avoid PvP for a little bit and deal with it later? And I am pretty sure that the potion arrows have a protection from that exploit. There isn't much of a point in quitting just because you hate the PvP changes. I hate some of the changes in 1.8, but it doesn't make the game unbearable. I hate the hunger bar. The hunger bar is pretty game-ruining, but I am not going to quit because of it.
This is not something you have to adapt to, this is something you should leave behind because this update will ruin pvp forever.
You do realize that if you configure a server a certain way the only difference between this update and the last one is the lack of sword blocking, right?
Any sane person would realize when you need to adapt, or quit the game completely. If you have an infinity bow, boom. You have an unlimited number of instant damage potions, poison potions, slowness potions, etc... This is not something you have to adapt to, this is something you should leave behind because this update will ruin pvp forever.
Oh, if only they would introduce a shield to block arrows, or even the ability to move to move sideways so you can dodge the arrows.
You're missing the point. Just because someone can doge a few arrows doesn't mean anything. The other player still has an unlimited number of those potions.
You're missing the point. Just because someone can doge a few arrows doesn't mean anything. The other player still has an unlimited number of those potions.
I don't get it. If you can dodge the arrows, you can dodge them forever. Anyways, have you ever heard of blacklisting?
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You're missing the point. Just because someone can doge a few arrows doesn't mean anything. The other player still has an unlimited number of those potions.
Not infinite.
Bows still break, eventually.
And you only need enough to get close enough to crack their head open with your sword.
Or, alternatively, use your own bow, preferably with your own mostly-infinite potion-effect arrows.
Well, its very easy for me. In PVP, I can dodge arrows like durr
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Sometimes I lag a bit, so that could be the problem. Speaking of which, arrow spammers are the worst. You get up close to them and they just spam arrows. I hope they nerf that too, or at least the knockback on it. A similar thing happens with skeletons.
To my experience, skeletons never fire the arrows fast enough for knockback abuse, unless you're in water, in which case you should consider tactical retreat instead of suicidal charge.
You're missing the point. Just because someone can doge a few arrows doesn't mean anything. The other player still has an unlimited number of those potions.
But doesn't the bow eventually break?
Also, currently, there is no crafting recipe for arrows with potions...
For Minecraft, i love how they change the Combat style, it's muuuuuuch better than swinging your sword and stuffs for 1 single second and then they die, that's not making sense at all.
Seeing as you need to fight the Ender Dragon to get Lingering Potions, it kinda makes sense for them to be powerful.
The new potion types (lingering and arrow) aren't even always better than splash.
Lingering potions
1) Lingering potions with instant effects are at maximum doubled, and apply much more slowly (giving your enemy time to take advantage of them).
2) Lingering potions with buffs are 1/4th the duration of splash, which makes them useless except in a few situations.
3) Lingering potions with debuffs are a nice trap, but the only real situation where you can land them and wouldn't be able to land a splash potion is when a player is chasing you, in which case you would have to time the potion very well due to the 1-second delay.
Potion arrows (which aren't craftable atm)
4) Potion arrow debuffs are hard-countered the moment someone points their shield at you. Their effects are still quite strong though, assuming you can punish the enemy if he tries to use a bucket of milk afterwards
5) Buff/heal potion arrows are nice variants of buff splash potions since they can't buff enemies by accident (shoot them upwards with an uncharged bow, and voila!), but you lose some HP, it slows you, and you can be knocked out of the way of them.
6) Arrows of harming just have more damage to compensate for shields.
No, as a matter of fact I'm not hung up on what this guy said. Most because it's not just him that's saying it. Almost all of the major pvpers of minecraft are saying that this will ruin pvp. Even forums that I frequent have threads dedicated to complain about the 1.9 combat update. So When you tell me that it's just one random person, no, it's actually not.
Putting the smiley face in your statement doesn't help you in any way, shape, or form. Saying that I don't know about minecraft pvp because I've only been on the FORUMS since 2012, is completely ignorant. I've been playing minecraft since alpha, and pvp since it started becoming a thing back in mid-later beta. Just because there was no hunger bar and no bow delay, doesn't mean pvp wasn't really there. Soup pvp has been here since beta 1.3.
Don't try to act like you know what you're talking about. Just because a few survival players, ones who don't even pvp competitively or are even good as a matter of fact, say that the 1.9 update will be awesome because spam clicking isn't effective anymore, just remember this. Combing is useless because it won't damage a player/ Fishing rods are useless because they don't deal knockback. Potions of lingering are OP for things like UHC or ANY form of pvp. Shields are insanely OP and are massive making it very hard to hit someone with an arrow. The only thing that these good pvpers wanted wasn't spam clicking. They wanted to remove the better connection wins aspect. Stimpy doesn't spam click. He has a good connection, which makes him better than anyone. Spam clicking doesn't actually do anything if you have a bad connection. And if you can't see that, than you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes down to pvp and what it's actually like.
And now you've just negated any previous argument you made, because rather than try to have a respectful dialogue as I was attempting, you have chosen to be rude and, quite frankly, childish.
- Fishing rods were more of a joke weapon, anyways, so not sure why you're so hung up on that.
- A lingering potion can only be made from Dragon's Breath, which is something I doubt most servers are going to just leave around for everyone to obtain. Especially PvP servers; they can easily just keep it from being obtainable. So, once again, you are choosing to flip out over something that can easily be made impossible to obtain without even any mods. Well done there.
- Shields are meant as a defensive object: not only do they only protect your front, but they slow you down significantly, meaning that someone without a shield can easily kite around the back and take them out if they play it smart. Or just pincer them from behind with two players. Honestly, shields are hardly OP.
- You do come across as hung up on what this one person says because you keep bringing him up like he's some sort of demigod. Thus far, most of us here are in agreement that we haven't even heard of that guy or any other "good PvP'ers" (whatever that's supposed to mean) who are legitimately complaining and providing rational arguments besides "rip pvp" (which is not a decent argument against the update, I might add).
- I never said that PvP was never there. I said that the current rendition of Minecraft's PvP was not there back in Alpha/Beta territory. If you truly have been playing since then, you would know! PvP has changed dramatically since back in the day, with the addition of a lot of different things and alterations to core mechanics that changed how people play. The same is true with this update.
- I noticed you avoided my "Minecraft changes" argument, as well. I take that either to mean you agree with me, or just can't actually come up with anything to counter it.
This update, contrary to popular belief, is actually going to make things better. Let's take a look at another game that is SOLELY PvP focused: Team Fortress 2.
In TF2, there are 9 different classes one can play, each class balanced so as to have their own tactics and strategies; within those classes there are more items that make it so that players can play the same class different ways - Engies can be offensive or defensive, Demomen melee-based or not, etc. You get the idea. TF2 has been around since 2007 with a massive community, and you know why? Because in addition to Valve updating it, it has VARIETY. Variety makes it so that there are a number of different strategies and techniques that can be used, making no game 100% the same.
Mojang is doing much the same with Minecraft. They are allowing for more strategies and variety to the game. In removing spam-clicking, they are making it so players have to THINK about what it is they are doing. If a player has a shield, an enemy has to think about how to go around that player. If a player is an archer, you have to think about how best to stay out of their line of sight. If a player has a ton of potions, you have to think about it. This update is actually going to make PvP better because it will force people to actually have to think about what their doing, rather than mindlessly smashing their mouse-click to attack.
Insulting someone by saying "you have no idea what you're talking about" makes you look like a fool if you aren't actually going to make a logical argument. I have created counter-arguments against each of your individual points; I suggest you look at them and try to make a rational statement before just spewing nonsense out of your mouth again.
I'm not complaining about old tactics not being useful anymore, I'm complaining about no tactics every being used anymore.
Tactics were created by the minecraft pvp community. If pvp and spam clicking was such an huge issue, why are people just starting to complain about it now? Why weren't they complaining about it two years ago?
Some tactics that are now ruined:
Even IF the fishing rod was supposed to be a joke weapon, it's still incredibly useful to obtain comboes. Now, fishing rods don't deal knockback which makes them useless.
Multiple ways to obtain comboes are useless because you're not damaging the player while they're in the combo.
Honestly, the thing that's going to ruin pvp is the hit delay, and the fact that a diamond hoe does more damage per second than a diamond sword. At least if comboes were still effective, then maybe this update wouldn't be completely stupid.
I'm not complaining about old tactics not being useful anymore, I'm complaining about no tactics every being used anymore.
Tactics were created by the minecraft pvp community. If pvp and spam clicking was such an huge issue, why are people just starting to complain about it now? Why weren't they complaining about it two years ago?
Some tactics that are now ruined:
Even IF the fishing rod was supposed to be a joke weapon, it's still incredibly useful to obtain comboes. Now, fishing rods don't deal knockback which makes them useless.
Multiple ways to obtain comboes are useless because you're not damaging the player while they're in the combo.
Honestly, the thing that's going to ruin pvp is the hit delay, and the fact that a diamond hoe does more damage per second than a diamond sword. At least if comboes were still effective, then maybe this update wouldn't be completely stupid.
Tactics change. I'm not sure if you mean "there will be no tactics any more" which is the dumbest argument I've heard (because, if anything, this update will mean more tactics than ever) or "none of the old tactics will work any more" which is equally as silly because tactics always change. In any game, players are forced to change tactics in order to get an edge on other players; it's just the nature of things.
Now, on that topic of Diamond Hoes doing more DPS:
Straight from the Minecraft 1.9 Wiki. They recently re-balanced weapons so that it wasn't as ridiculous, meaning that, as you can see, the Dia Sword still reigns supreme.
I will concede on one argument, and that is that the cooldown. Admittedly the cooldown seems a bit silly and awkwardly-forced right now, but considering that it was JUST implemented, who would think any better. Not to mention that they do seem focused on rebalancing things so that you DON'T have players running around with Dia Hoes slaughtering everyone.
Again, I reiterate: people are needlessly complaining. It is clear that Mojang is actively working towards balancing everything out, and since things have worked out nicely in the past...why not have some faith in them?
Also, I like that we are able to have a respectful conversation now.
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I'm not complaining about old tactics not being useful anymore, I'm complaining about no tactics every being used anymore.
Tactics were created by the minecraft pvp community. If pvp and spam clicking was such an huge issue, why are people just starting to complain about it now? Why weren't they complaining about it two years ago?
Some tactics that are now ruined:
Even IF the fishing rod was supposed to be a joke weapon, it's still incredibly useful to obtain comboes. Now, fishing rods don't deal knockback which makes them useless.
Multiple ways to obtain comboes are useless because you're not damaging the player while they're in the combo.
Honestly, the thing that's going to ruin pvp is the hit delay, and the fact that a diamond hoe does more damage per second than a diamond sword. At least if comboes were still effective, then maybe this update wouldn't be completely stupid
You clearly haven't stepped out of your bubble of pvpers in the past 4 years. People have been complaining about spam-clicking for a very long time, the typical pvper has just been too busy doing it (spam-clicking) and typing "l0ln00b", "u suck", etc. to notice. Tons of people hate pvp and how there is no strategy to it, but rather than an activity that requires actual thought, it is a contest of who can spam-click the most effectively, who has macro-bindings, and who has the most god gear, god apples, and strength pots. It is my belief that there is absolutely no strategy to vanilla pvp, despite what you say about these "combos" that you never listed and I can somehow obtain. The addition of shields and multiple types of arrows is barely a step in the right direction. If I had it my way, all combat items would have much higher cooldowns, and all the servers I played on would implement plugins such that there would be no god apples or Strength II potions, there would be no enchantments above level III, and there would be far more strategic advantages that could be gained through actual thought rather than ridiculous power, internet speed, and other such factors that I hate. I'm not going to get my hopes up though, because I know that the vocal majority would hate those changes. I've thought such things since I first played on a Minecraft pvp server.
If you play on a heavily modified, highly complex server (usually an RPG server or a copy of another strategy/online RP game), you will find that the majority of people who enjoy such servers have similar thoughts on the matter to mine.
Also, the fishing rod was not intended to be a joke weapon, it was intended
to be a fishing rod. I don't even know how you came to that conclusion.
At this point you're just trying to defend this "Stimpy" guy who you believe in, and we have no idea who the crap he is.
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You don't understand. The only reason why I play minecraft is for PvP. They ruin pvp, that's it, I'm done with the game.
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You do realize that if you configure a server a certain way the only difference between this update and the last one is the lack of sword blocking, right?
Like, you can make 1.9 1.8 without mods.
I joined at 1.7.3 beta, and never understood why people didn't like 1.8 beta. Literally the best update since I joined.
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Oh, if only they would introduce a shield to block arrows, or even the ability to move to move sideways so you can dodge the arrows.
Oh wait.
For those that hates the update rn, they should at least be thankful that Minecraft allows the user to play whatever version he or she wishes.
You're missing the point. Just because someone can doge a few arrows doesn't mean anything. The other player still has an unlimited number of those potions.
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I don't get it. If you can dodge the arrows, you can dodge them forever. Anyways, have you ever heard of blacklisting?
EDIT: You misspelled dodge doge.
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Not infinite.
Bows still break, eventually.
And you only need enough to get close enough to crack their head open with your sword.
Or, alternatively, use your own bow, preferably with your own mostly-infinite potion-effect arrows.
Well, its very easy for me. In PVP, I can dodge arrows like durr
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To my experience, skeletons never fire the arrows fast enough for knockback abuse, unless you're in water, in which case you should consider tactical retreat instead of suicidal charge.
But doesn't the bow eventually break?
Also, currently, there is no crafting recipe for arrows with potions...
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For Minecraft, i love how they change the Combat style, it's muuuuuuch better than swinging your sword and stuffs for 1 single second and then they die, that's not making sense at all.
I'm LOOKING forward for the update
Seeing as you need to fight the Ender Dragon to get Lingering Potions, it kinda makes sense for them to be powerful.
The new potion types (lingering and arrow) aren't even always better than splash.
Lingering potions
1) Lingering potions with instant effects are at maximum doubled, and apply much more slowly (giving your enemy time to take advantage of them).
2) Lingering potions with buffs are 1/4th the duration of splash, which makes them useless except in a few situations.
3) Lingering potions with debuffs are a nice trap, but the only real situation where you can land them and wouldn't be able to land a splash potion is when a player is chasing you, in which case you would have to time the potion very well due to the 1-second delay.
Potion arrows (which aren't craftable atm)
4) Potion arrow debuffs are hard-countered the moment someone points their shield at you. Their effects are still quite strong though, assuming you can punish the enemy if he tries to use a bucket of milk afterwards
5) Buff/heal potion arrows are nice variants of buff splash potions since they can't buff enemies by accident (shoot them upwards with an uncharged bow, and voila!), but you lose some HP, it slows you, and you can be knocked out of the way of them.
6) Arrows of harming just have more damage to compensate for shields.
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Curse PremiumAnd now you've just negated any previous argument you made, because rather than try to have a respectful dialogue as I was attempting, you have chosen to be rude and, quite frankly, childish.
- Fishing rods were more of a joke weapon, anyways, so not sure why you're so hung up on that.
- A lingering potion can only be made from Dragon's Breath, which is something I doubt most servers are going to just leave around for everyone to obtain. Especially PvP servers; they can easily just keep it from being obtainable. So, once again, you are choosing to flip out over something that can easily be made impossible to obtain without even any mods. Well done there.
- Shields are meant as a defensive object: not only do they only protect your front, but they slow you down significantly, meaning that someone without a shield can easily kite around the back and take them out if they play it smart. Or just pincer them from behind with two players. Honestly, shields are hardly OP.
- You do come across as hung up on what this one person says because you keep bringing him up like he's some sort of demigod. Thus far, most of us here are in agreement that we haven't even heard of that guy or any other "good PvP'ers" (whatever that's supposed to mean) who are legitimately complaining and providing rational arguments besides "rip pvp" (which is not a decent argument against the update, I might add).
- I never said that PvP was never there. I said that the current rendition of Minecraft's PvP was not there back in Alpha/Beta territory. If you truly have been playing since then, you would know! PvP has changed dramatically since back in the day, with the addition of a lot of different things and alterations to core mechanics that changed how people play. The same is true with this update.
- I noticed you avoided my "Minecraft changes" argument, as well. I take that either to mean you agree with me, or just can't actually come up with anything to counter it.
This update, contrary to popular belief, is actually going to make things better. Let's take a look at another game that is SOLELY PvP focused: Team Fortress 2.
In TF2, there are 9 different classes one can play, each class balanced so as to have their own tactics and strategies; within those classes there are more items that make it so that players can play the same class different ways - Engies can be offensive or defensive, Demomen melee-based or not, etc. You get the idea. TF2 has been around since 2007 with a massive community, and you know why? Because in addition to Valve updating it, it has VARIETY. Variety makes it so that there are a number of different strategies and techniques that can be used, making no game 100% the same.
Mojang is doing much the same with Minecraft. They are allowing for more strategies and variety to the game. In removing spam-clicking, they are making it so players have to THINK about what it is they are doing. If a player has a shield, an enemy has to think about how to go around that player. If a player is an archer, you have to think about how best to stay out of their line of sight. If a player has a ton of potions, you have to think about it. This update is actually going to make PvP better because it will force people to actually have to think about what their doing, rather than mindlessly smashing their mouse-click to attack.
Insulting someone by saying "you have no idea what you're talking about" makes you look like a fool if you aren't actually going to make a logical argument. I have created counter-arguments against each of your individual points; I suggest you look at them and try to make a rational statement before just spewing nonsense out of your mouth again.
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Curse PremiumPun totally intended.
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I'm not complaining about old tactics not being useful anymore, I'm complaining about no tactics every being used anymore.
Tactics were created by the minecraft pvp community. If pvp and spam clicking was such an huge issue, why are people just starting to complain about it now? Why weren't they complaining about it two years ago?
Some tactics that are now ruined:
Even IF the fishing rod was supposed to be a joke weapon, it's still incredibly useful to obtain comboes. Now, fishing rods don't deal knockback which makes them useless.
Multiple ways to obtain comboes are useless because you're not damaging the player while they're in the combo.
Honestly, the thing that's going to ruin pvp is the hit delay, and the fact that a diamond hoe does more damage per second than a diamond sword. At least if comboes were still effective, then maybe this update wouldn't be completely stupid.
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PvPers simply dislike the cooldown. Not even the elimination of cooldown via command blocks or future plugins satisfy them. -.-
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Curse PremiumTactics change. I'm not sure if you mean "there will be no tactics any more" which is the dumbest argument I've heard (because, if anything, this update will mean more tactics than ever) or "none of the old tactics will work any more" which is equally as silly because tactics always change. In any game, players are forced to change tactics in order to get an edge on other players; it's just the nature of things.
Now, on that topic of Diamond Hoes doing more DPS:
Straight from the Minecraft 1.9 Wiki. They recently re-balanced weapons so that it wasn't as ridiculous, meaning that, as you can see, the Dia Sword still reigns supreme.
I will concede on one argument, and that is that the cooldown. Admittedly the cooldown seems a bit silly and awkwardly-forced right now, but considering that it was JUST implemented, who would think any better. Not to mention that they do seem focused on rebalancing things so that you DON'T have players running around with Dia Hoes slaughtering everyone.
Again, I reiterate: people are needlessly complaining. It is clear that Mojang is actively working towards balancing everything out, and since things have worked out nicely in the past...why not have some faith in them?
Also, I like that we are able to have a respectful conversation now.
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You clearly haven't stepped out of your bubble of pvpers in the past 4 years. People have been complaining about spam-clicking for a very long time, the typical pvper has just been too busy doing it (spam-clicking) and typing "l0ln00b", "u suck", etc. to notice. Tons of people hate pvp and how there is no strategy to it, but rather than an activity that requires actual thought, it is a contest of who can spam-click the most effectively, who has macro-bindings, and who has the most god gear, god apples, and strength pots. It is my belief that there is absolutely no strategy to vanilla pvp, despite what you say about these "combos" that you never listed and I can somehow obtain. The addition of shields and multiple types of arrows is barely a step in the right direction. If I had it my way, all combat items would have much higher cooldowns, and all the servers I played on would implement plugins such that there would be no god apples or Strength II potions, there would be no enchantments above level III, and there would be far more strategic advantages that could be gained through actual thought rather than ridiculous power, internet speed, and other such factors that I hate. I'm not going to get my hopes up though, because I know that the vocal majority would hate those changes. I've thought such things since I first played on a Minecraft pvp server.
If you play on a heavily modified, highly complex server (usually an RPG server or a copy of another strategy/online RP game), you will find that the majority of people who enjoy such servers have similar thoughts on the matter to mine.
Also, the fishing rod was not intended to be a joke weapon, it was intended
to be a fishing rod. I don't even know how you came to that conclusion.