As long as spam clicking is braindead no one is going to bother using the other stuff in the game that is somewhat different.
On properly balanced high ranked pvp 1v1 servers this is not the case. It's very often that people will go for a jump-crit at the risk of being knocked up for multiple hits (spamming jump is inefficient as you just get knocked up too often for only a chance of critting), try to block-hit at the cost of mobility, try to knockback off cliffs, etc. Spam-clicking is definitely the first thing you need to learn how to do to succeed, but in higher-ranked pvp everyone already spam-clicks correctly so the only advantages you can gain are from the other mechanics.
It's really a pretty deep system. Imo about equal to dark souls' pvp. Just because mechanical skill vastly improves your chances of winning doesn't mean that there isn't interesting strategy involved, just like in CoD and the like.
I agree that vanilla minecraft pvp is kind of imbalanced because resources are too easy to get (so flint and steel and similar items quickly become useless), but that's kind of irrelevant, because many servers can fix that with only minor rebalancing. Hunger games, 1v1's, Capture the Flag, Walls; all of these work very well.
Oh hey, more of this "updates are like modpacks" nonsense. Unfortunately Minecraft needs to lose some of its simplicity to fix some of the horrible features and mechanics that already exist.
They aren't like modpacks at all. Modpacks have a completely different goal than updates.
You gotta admit, those potion arrows are very mod-like.
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If you're interested in an awesome, white-listed, pure vanilla server, consider applying!
On properly balanced high ranked pvp 1v1 servers this is not the case. It's very often that people will go for a jump-crit at the risk of being knocked up for multiple hits (spamming jump is inefficient as you just get knocked up too often for only a chance of critting), try to block-hit at the cost of mobility, try to knockback off cliffs, etc. Spam-clicking is definitely the first thing you need to learn how to do to succeed, but in higher-ranked pvp everyone already spam-clicks correctly so the only advantages you can gain are from the other mechanics.
It's really a pretty deep system. Imo about equal to dark souls' pvp. Just because mechanical skill vastly improves your chances of winning doesn't mean that there isn't interesting strategy involved, just like in CoD and the like.
I agree that vanilla minecraft pvp is kind of imbalanced because resources are too easy to get (so flint and steel and similar items quickly become useless), but that's kind of irrelevant, because many servers can fix that with only minor rebalancing. Hunger games, 1v1's, Capture the Flag, Walls; all of these work very well.
The fact that a PvP server needs to step in and properly balance it seems to indicate to me that PvP balance is really crappy.
When everything is equal (gear, lag, etc.) then yeah, skill becomes relevant. But it's such a small factor that it's much easier and more effective to increase your power by gearing up. Being an effective fighter doesn't help nearly as much as having godly equipment, at which point you can spamclick everyone that doesn't have godly gear to death.
Sure, you can get an okay PvP system going if you force everyone to use the same gear or something similar, but regular vanilla PvP (which is what the combat system really is) is still pretty crappy.
The fact that a PvP server needs to step in and properly balance it seems to indicate to me that PvP balance is really crappy.
The game wasn't designed with PvP not being "grind to win" in mind, I think. It was designed with PvE balance, where grind-to-win is generally considered okay. Interesting PvP was something that didn't really even exist until 1.8, so it makes sense that it wasn't considered as a factor.
Also, in reality the most common form of unmodded PvP is to go in creative mode and give you and your friend whatever "kit" you think is fair.
I also think minecraft PvP's base mechanics (the ones that exist even without items) (that is, crits, sprinting, hunger, knockback, sprinting knockback) are very good. I mean, compare Minecraft fist-fighting to Skyrim fist-fighting. In Skyrim, you basically just kite so your attacks land and theirs don't. In Minecraft, you try to crit, knockup, knock-off, etc.
Minecraft doesn't have as many special combat mechanics (the ones you get using items) as skyrim, yeah, but I think that was almost a design goal . Mojang didn't want "Diamond sword of Greater Frost" in minecraft, nor did they want "Conjure Flame Atronarch". They wanted vanilla minecraft combat to be simple and intuitive, and it really is.
The game wasn't designed with PvP not being "grind to win" in mind, I think. It was designed with PvE balance, where grind-to-win is generally considered okay. Interesting PvP was something that didn't really even exist until 1.8, so it makes sense that it wasn't considered as a factor.
Also, in reality the most common form of unmodded PvP is to go in creative mode and give you and your friend whatever "kit" you think is fair.
I also think minecraft PvP's base mechanics (the ones that exist even without items) (that is, crits, sprinting, hunger, knockback, sprinting knockback) are very good. I mean, compare Minecraft fist-fighting to Skyrim fist-fighting. In Skyrim, you basically just kite so your attacks land and theirs don't. In Minecraft, you try to crit, knockup, knock-off, etc.
In other words, you're saying what I'm saying: Minecraft PvP is good/decent when equipment is equalized. Which occurs rather infrequently, at least from my experience (I have literally never heard of people giving themselves kits via Creative and then duking it out; even if this is true, almost every server where PvP is enabled also prevents you from switching into Creative).
The base mechanics may be good but that doesn't mean anything when you get far better results from getting better gear than you do from becoming a better fighter. It may be excusable because PvP was never really intended to be a thing (the only real reason it exists is because you have health and other players can be damaged; then a few new mechanics were slapped on in 1.8) but with 1.9 being dedicated to combat, there's not really going to be an excuse afterwards (and of course if 1.9 actually does fix the combat problems, there won't be anything to excuse; it'd already be good).
Minecraft doesn't have as many special combat mechanics (the ones you get using items) as skyrim, yeah, but I think that was almost a design goal . Mojang didn't want "Diamond sword of Greater Frost" in minecraft, nor did they want "Conjure Flame Atronarch". They wanted vanilla minecraft combat to be simple and intuitive, and it really is.
"Simple" and "intuitive" do not equate to "good". Nor are "simple" and "intuitive" properties that Minecraft has; while some parts of the game are easy to understand, there are also parts that are insanely difficult to guess (like crafting and creating Nether portals) without the wiki.
Those are arguably the sorts of things that would make the combat system decent: actual variety in equipment. Not to mention that those "special combat mechanics" need not be complicated; take a look at Terraria, where you understand the gist of a weapon after swinging/firing it a few times, and armor set bonuses and accessory bonuses are outright stated to you. It's easy to grasp everything about a particular weapon in a few seconds.
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Did something happen to you in your childhood to give you this unreasonable fear of rutabaga?
Those are arguably the sorts of things that would make the combat system decent: actual variety in equipment. Not to mention that those "special combat mechanics" need not be complicated; take a look at Terraria, where you understand the gist of a weapon after swinging/firing it a few times, and armor set bonuses and accessory bonuses are outright stated to you. It's easy to grasp everything about a particular weapon in a few seconds.
Minecraft, in my opinion, does not have the depth of material towards mining for 50 different types of swords.
Less items helps beginners understand the game well enough to play Survival instead of wondering every 30 seconds "What does this do?"
Spending 20+ hours on researching a game on it's wiki as a beginner is overkill.
Disclaimer: Of course I read the wiki. My point is reading the wiki should NOT be a necessity.
The lack of tutorials or information in the game has more to do with Notch being lazy towards the start. There actually used to be a tutorial button in the main menu sometime during indev. It never did anything. At that point the game was doomed to make players rely on the wiki.
The only information that even hints at the fact the game somewhat has progression are the achievement descriptions.
Minecraft, in my opinion, does not have the depth of material towards mining for 50 different types of swords.
Less items helps beginners understand the game well enough to play Survival instead of wondering every 30 seconds "What does this do?"
Spending 20+ hours on researching a game on it's wiki as a beginner is overkill.
Disclaimer: Of course I read the wiki. My point is reading the wiki should NOT be a necessity.
New equipment doesn't need to (and, for the most part, shouldn't) come from mining. Villager trades, structures, and enchanting are all viable ways to introduce new weapon mechanics.
As for "forcing players to spend 20+ hours researching a game on its wiki", you could just use the weapon and figure out how it works yourself? If the weapon mechanics are kept intuitive (which they can be; again, using Terraria as an example, you figure out the mechanics of a weapon about two seconds after you use it) then you'll be able to figure out how to use it on your own. And even if weapon mechanics were difficult to understand, newbies are still forced to go to the wiki anyway for crafting recipes and other unexplained mechanics. Not that that's a good thing, but you're not creating a new problem.
That I can't play any versions over 1.7.2 because of OpenGl issues.
That's sad, my old, broken laptop can play 1.8, but my laptop sucks and I don't use it. When 1.9 comes out, my laptop will probably not have the ability to play 1.9 because of my OpenGL version.
Agreed. This game sorely needs a "Not Enough Items"-like in-game encyclopedia. There are so many crafting recipes and mechanics that are very unintuitive, and new players should not be expected to just know.
its hard to play in a new version game...
On properly balanced high ranked pvp 1v1 servers this is not the case. It's very often that people will go for a jump-crit at the risk of being knocked up for multiple hits (spamming jump is inefficient as you just get knocked up too often for only a chance of critting), try to block-hit at the cost of mobility, try to knockback off cliffs, etc. Spam-clicking is definitely the first thing you need to learn how to do to succeed, but in higher-ranked pvp everyone already spam-clicks correctly so the only advantages you can gain are from the other mechanics.
It's really a pretty deep system. Imo about equal to dark souls' pvp. Just because mechanical skill vastly improves your chances of winning doesn't mean that there isn't interesting strategy involved, just like in CoD and the like.
I agree that vanilla minecraft pvp is kind of imbalanced because resources are too easy to get (so flint and steel and similar items quickly become useless), but that's kind of irrelevant, because many servers can fix that with only minor rebalancing. Hunger games, 1v1's, Capture the Flag, Walls; all of these work very well.
Spears, Daggers, and Hammers for 1.9
You gotta admit, those potion arrows are very mod-like.
If you're interested in an awesome, white-listed, pure vanilla server, consider applying!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/servers/pc-servers/2811770-axiba-smp-community-focused-vanilla-survival#c4
There have been a lot of mods that add arrows that do special things, personally I like that something like that is now in vanilla minecraft.
The fact that a PvP server needs to step in and properly balance it seems to indicate to me that PvP balance is really crappy.
When everything is equal (gear, lag, etc.) then yeah, skill becomes relevant. But it's such a small factor that it's much easier and more effective to increase your power by gearing up. Being an effective fighter doesn't help nearly as much as having godly equipment, at which point you can spamclick everyone that doesn't have godly gear to death.
Sure, you can get an okay PvP system going if you force everyone to use the same gear or something similar, but regular vanilla PvP (which is what the combat system really is) is still pretty crappy.
The game wasn't designed with PvP not being "grind to win" in mind, I think. It was designed with PvE balance, where grind-to-win is generally considered okay. Interesting PvP was something that didn't really even exist until 1.8, so it makes sense that it wasn't considered as a factor.
Also, in reality the most common form of unmodded PvP is to go in creative mode and give you and your friend whatever "kit" you think is fair.
I also think minecraft PvP's base mechanics (the ones that exist even without items) (that is, crits, sprinting, hunger, knockback, sprinting knockback) are very good. I mean, compare Minecraft fist-fighting to Skyrim fist-fighting. In Skyrim, you basically just kite so your attacks land and theirs don't. In Minecraft, you try to crit, knockup, knock-off, etc.
Minecraft doesn't have as many special combat mechanics (the ones you get using items) as skyrim, yeah, but I think that was almost a design goal . Mojang didn't want "Diamond sword of Greater Frost" in minecraft, nor did they want "Conjure Flame Atronarch". They wanted vanilla minecraft combat to be simple and intuitive, and it really is.
Spears, Daggers, and Hammers for 1.9
In other words, you're saying what I'm saying: Minecraft PvP is good/decent when equipment is equalized. Which occurs rather infrequently, at least from my experience (I have literally never heard of people giving themselves kits via Creative and then duking it out; even if this is true, almost every server where PvP is enabled also prevents you from switching into Creative).
The base mechanics may be good but that doesn't mean anything when you get far better results from getting better gear than you do from becoming a better fighter. It may be excusable because PvP was never really intended to be a thing (the only real reason it exists is because you have health and other players can be damaged; then a few new mechanics were slapped on in 1.8) but with 1.9 being dedicated to combat, there's not really going to be an excuse afterwards (and of course if 1.9 actually does fix the combat problems, there won't be anything to excuse; it'd already be good).
"Simple" and "intuitive" do not equate to "good". Nor are "simple" and "intuitive" properties that Minecraft has; while some parts of the game are easy to understand, there are also parts that are insanely difficult to guess (like crafting and creating Nether portals) without the wiki.
Those are arguably the sorts of things that would make the combat system decent: actual variety in equipment. Not to mention that those "special combat mechanics" need not be complicated; take a look at Terraria, where you understand the gist of a weapon after swinging/firing it a few times, and armor set bonuses and accessory bonuses are outright stated to you. It's easy to grasp everything about a particular weapon in a few seconds.
Minecraft, in my opinion, does not have the depth of material towards mining for 50 different types of swords.
Less items helps beginners understand the game well enough to play Survival instead of wondering every 30 seconds "What does this do?"
Spending 20+ hours on researching a game on it's wiki as a beginner is overkill.
Disclaimer: Of course I read the wiki. My point is reading the wiki should NOT be a necessity.
The lack of tutorials or information in the game has more to do with Notch being lazy towards the start. There actually used to be a tutorial button in the main menu sometime during indev. It never did anything. At that point the game was doomed to make players rely on the wiki.
The only information that even hints at the fact the game somewhat has progression are the achievement descriptions.
New equipment doesn't need to (and, for the most part, shouldn't) come from mining. Villager trades, structures, and enchanting are all viable ways to introduce new weapon mechanics.
As for "forcing players to spend 20+ hours researching a game on its wiki", you could just use the weapon and figure out how it works yourself? If the weapon mechanics are kept intuitive (which they can be; again, using Terraria as an example, you figure out the mechanics of a weapon about two seconds after you use it) then you'll be able to figure out how to use it on your own. And even if weapon mechanics were difficult to understand, newbies are still forced to go to the wiki anyway for crafting recipes and other unexplained mechanics. Not that that's a good thing, but you're not creating a new problem.
That's sad, my old, broken laptop can play 1.8, but my laptop sucks and I don't use it. When 1.9 comes out, my laptop will probably not have the ability to play 1.9 because of my OpenGL version.
Agreed. This game sorely needs a "Not Enough Items"-like in-game encyclopedia. There are so many crafting recipes and mechanics that are very unintuitive, and new players should not be expected to just know.
So many mods, so little time.
I hate the horrible, horrible lag. Some optimisation would be nice.
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