Personally I don't really get it, to me it goes against everything minecraft is about. A game about spending hours collecting resources and building structures, turning a blank canvas into whatever you want it to be and shaping the world to your will. And then you die and lose everything, I play games to escape reality not be reminded of it. Sure you can spectate the world, but you can't continue something you've poured so much time into; it seems like a waste to me.
I started a hardcore world a while back to see what it's like these days, built a nice little hobbit hole and some farms and then basically did nothing else because I'd hate to erase even those few hours of effort. It was a different experience to regular survival for sure, and I would guess that the higher stakes are what draw people to it, but for me it just makes me not want to play.
So to the people that love hardcore mode, why? What makes you come back to it after you die?
I don't play it myself, but I can see why others would, it is one life, and world gets wiped after spectator mode is done with.
But I'd rather not have all my builds be deleted if it can be helped because to me having all your work be destroyed for a mistake isn't what I would call fun. Some would allege that the game is too easy but if you suggested they play on hardcore mode, I bet the majority of them probably won't because they are well aware of the implications of that or what may happen if they put a lot of time into building up a small town and then one mistake in the Nether or End cost them potentially years of work.
It's bad enough that we can lose inventory items if we die in lava or in the Void, or simply not remembering the place or exact coordinates where we died, hardcore mode puts this penalty on overdrive and includes your entire world also.
Not enough people do seem to acknowledge that there is such a thing as too hard or excessive punishment, because they like seeing others suffer in some way which is unfortunately a nefarious thing about human nature.
I'm not saying there are people who are wanting hardcore mode to become the standard mode of the game replacing the other survival difficulty modes, but over the time I've been on these forums there have been numerous suggestions I witnessed that in my view weren't much better, some associates I frequent threads with saw the same.
Hardcore mode does need to be implemented as a separate difficulty mode in bedrock edition, as it already is in Java edition.
But it should be just that, nothing more because not everyone wants to deal with the complete erasure of their world and in game progress.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. I would generally agree that minecraft doesn't really offer that much challenge but I don't think it needs to be a hard game. I guess hardcore is mainly a challenge mode that forces a player to beat the game without dying, but to me it just doesn't make sense in a game that doesn't really end.
Also I had no idea there was no hardcore mode in bedrock, that seems like a strange choice.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. I would generally agree that minecraft doesn't really offer that much challenge but I don't think it needs to be a hard game. I guess hardcore is mainly a challenge mode that forces a player to beat the game without dying, but to me it just doesn't make sense in a game that doesn't really end.
Also I had no idea there was no hardcore mode in bedrock, that seems like a strange choice.
There are plenty of survival games that cater to players that want more of a challenge anyway, and besides I don't feel like super hard or grindy fits Minecraft except for hardcore mode because it is a game for everyone not just adults. If people younger than I am don't like being killed by Creepers or Skeletons all the time they should have the option to have less or none of that happening in an official non cheat related game mode.
I don't play on easy or peaceful but I am proud that this game does have these modes for younger or inexperienced players so they can learn the basics so they can someday hold their own in normal or hard when that time comes.
There are plenty of survival games that cater to players that want more of a challenge anyway, and besides I don't feel like super hard or grindy fits Minecraft except for hardcore mode because it is a game for everyone not just adults. If people younger than I am don't like being killed by Creepers or Skeletons all the time they should have the option to have less or none of that happening in an official non cheat related game mode.
I don't play on easy or peaceful but I am proud that this game does have these modes for younger or inexperienced players so they can learn the basics so they can someday hold their own in normal or hard when that time comes.
Not to mention mobs are just annoying when you're trying to build something; if I'm playing creative I can almost guarantee you that I'll be on peaceful. Hardcore on the other hand must have been added to appease masochists, different strokes for different folks I guess.
Not to mention mobs are just annoying when you're trying to build something; if I'm playing creative I can almost guarantee you that I'll be on peaceful. Hardcore on the other hand must have been added to appease masochists, different strokes for different folks I guess.
I'm fine with hardcore mode's addition because it is a separate mode so does nothing to interfere with the general Minecraft survival experience, it's there for people who got bored of the other modes and wanted to test their limits.
I just don't like it when people make non optional suggestions that end up affecting lower difficulties and are forced on players who don't want it. These changes include things like rarer ore generation, pillager raids able to destroy player bases and steal their items, diseases, natural disasters and so on.
I can't help but wonder that these suggestions are sometimes being made by people who got upset that they cannot enter somebody else's whitelist world due to having a reputation of breaking rules and griefing, so they're trying to have Mojang code AI to do the job for them.
It isn't necessarily hardcore mode advocates, because a lot of people trying to have these changes forced on the general Minecraft experience do play on the other modes too and unfortunately bedrock edition doesn't allow you to stop updates being forced on you.
I think it's for the people that want a more realistic minecraft experience which includes all the losses that come with living a good life. One life.
I agree, I do want it to become an option in bedrock edition because this is one of the points that get brought up when people compare Java to bedrock edition.
Minecraft would be a truly sandbox experience if bedrock edition had all the features Java version did.
I can see why others may not like hardcore mode, as you can lose possibly hundreds of hours of work to some baby zombie. I think that the reason why many people like it is because it makes Minecraft a more challenging game. Some people may feel that this extra challenge is needed, as Minecraft can be a very easy game. Others may just want a new Minecraft experience. Plus, it is also a gamble, and some people can find those kind of things exciting. Another thing is that if you happen to build something incredible and don't want to lose it, they can always make a copy of the world and play it in a different game mode. In addition to this, Minecraft hardcore content seems to be popular on YouTube (as seen with Ph1LzA and Luke TheNotable's hardcore series), so aspiring Minecraft YouTubers may play hardcore in hopes of becoming more popular.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. I would generally agree that minecraft doesn't really offer that much challenge but I don't think it needs to be a hard game. I guess hardcore is mainly a challenge mode that forces a player to beat the game without dying, but to me it just doesn't make sense in a game that doesn't really end.
Also I had no idea there was no hardcore mode in bedrock, that seems like a strange choice.
To me minecraft is realy more a sandbox then a game. Sometimes i regred that i've deleted my very first world but since minecraft doesn't have a story aka "lore" i haven't kept a single world for more then a few months. Aside from accomplishing your own goals there is no beating the game imo.
Minecraft gets better with every option. Hardcore fit's very well in minecraft becouse it's the only end to a game with no true goal.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
I'm fine with hardcore mode's addition because it is a separate mode so does nothing to interfere with the general Minecraft survival experience, it's there for people who got bored of the other modes and wanted to test their limits.
I just don't like it when people make non optional suggestions that end up affecting lower difficulties and are forced on players who don't want it. These changes include things like rarer ore generation, pillager raids able to destroy player bases and steal their items, diseases, natural disasters and so on.
I can't help but wonder that these suggestions are sometimes being made by people who got upset that they cannot enter somebody else's whitelist world due to having a reputation of breaking rules and griefing, so they're trying to have Mojang code AI to do the job for them.
It isn't necessarily hardcore mode advocates, because a lot of people trying to have these changes forced on the general Minecraft experience do play on the other modes too and unfortunately bedrock edition doesn't allow you to stop updates being forced on you.
I have no issue with it being in the game for sure, but it doesn't really make sense to me as it stands (see below). Maybe it needs an overhaul where some of those features that would make the game more difficult could be added exclusively to hardcore mode.
When i create a world in that mode, i turn off insomnia before getting started and don't craft / steal a bed.
That's my only rule: don't skip a night unless you find a village!
Then i think about what i wan't to accomplish. I've never realy tried to go for the dragon, that wouldn't satisfy me.
I'm mostly traveling the overworld in hardcore, trying to find a beautiful place to build something or search for rare items.
I don't take it to serious. The moment i stumble into an illager outpost i am dead meat for sure!
What i also enjoy is to play minecraft realy dark, no matter the difficulty.
With optifine (by that i mean the glowing torch in the hand thingy) it's just way more fun to explore the darkness.
Also i wouldn't make backups from hardcore worlds. Sure dying to a glitch or lag is frustrating but to me it counts.
Minecraft just isn't a safe game when it comes to that.
That's an interesting take, personally minecraft's world-gen isn't interesting enough for me to just wander around. Why do that on hardcore rather than another difficulty?
To me minecraft is realy more a sandbox then a game. Sometimes i regred that i've deleted my very first world but since minecraft doesn't have a story aka "lore" i haven't kept a single world for more then a few months. Aside from accomplishing your own goals there is no beating the game imo.
Minecraft gets better with every option. Hardcore fit's very well in minecraft becouse it's the only end to a game with no true goal.
I totally agree, I'd argue that the end of the "game" is after you beat the ender dragon and the credits roll, but obviously that isn't all the content in the game. That's why I said it doesn't make sense to me in a game that doesn't end, the only two outcomes to a hardcore world are you die, or you choose to stop playing. I guess that adds one more outcome than regular survival but is it really a useful option?
I can see why others may not like hardcore mode, as you can lose possibly hundreds of hours of work to some baby zombie. I think that the reason why many people like it is because it makes Minecraft a more challenging game. Some people may feel that this extra challenge is needed, as Minecraft can be a very easy game. Others may just want a new Minecraft experience. Plus, it is also a gamble, and some people can find those kind of things exciting. Another thing is that if you happen to build something incredible and don't want to lose it, they can always make a copy of the world and play it in a different game mode. In addition to this, Minecraft hardcore content seems to be popular on YouTube (as seen with Ph1LzA and Luke TheNotable's hardcore series), so aspiring Minecraft YouTubers may play hardcore in hopes of becoming more popular.
Minecraft is not a difficult game, that's for sure, but hardcore doesn't add difficulty - it adds consequence. I can see how it makes for a different experience, but I still don't understand why anyone would want to play a game with such a punishing consequence.
I'm gonna compare minecraft to dark souls here, which is obviously extreme, but they're the hardest games I can think of that I enjoy. Dark souls was so difficult when it came out that it spawned an entirely new genre of games, but playing them feels good because they reward skill and aggression and it really feels like you've accomplished something when you make any progress. But what is the consequence for dying in a dark souls game? The only thing you lose is a bit of progression, your souls (which you can get back) and a bit of your humanity. The designers expect players to die a lot so they made the consequence pretty insignificant to encourage players to keep pushing and then when you succeed there's this amazing feeling of relief and pride.
Minecraft's hardcore mode on the other hand, is no harder than regular minecraft except that when you die (not if) you lose everything. That's more brutal than most ironman modes in any other game I can think of. I can see how looking at your accomplishments in a hardcore world could give you the same sense of pride, but there will always be the threat of dying to something random that for me at least would overshadow that pride.
As a side note, I didn't know you could copy hardcore worlds and change the gamemode. That kind of defeats the whole point doesn't it?
I have no issue with it being in the game for sure, but it doesn't really make sense to me as it stands (see below). Maybe it needs an overhaul where some of those features that would make the game more difficult could be added exclusively to hardcore mode.
That's an interesting take, personally minecraft's world-gen isn't interesting enough for me to just wander around. Why do that on hardcore rather than another difficulty?
I totally agree, I'd argue that the end of the "game" is after you beat the ender dragon and the credits roll, but obviously that isn't all the content in the game. That's why I said it doesn't make sense to me in a game that doesn't end, the only two outcomes to a hardcore world are you die, or you choose to stop playing. I guess that adds one more outcome than regular survival but is it really a useful option?
Minecraft is not a difficult game, that's for sure, but hardcore doesn't add difficulty - it adds consequence. I can see how it makes for a different experience, but I still don't understand why anyone would want to play a game with such a punishing consequence.
I'm gonna compare minecraft to dark souls here, which is obviously extreme, but they're the hardest games I can think of that I enjoy. Dark souls was so difficult when it came out that it spawned an entirely new genre of games, but playing them feels good because they reward skill and aggression and it really feels like you've accomplished something when you make any progress. But what is the consequence for dying in a dark souls game? The only thing you lose is a bit of progression, your souls (which you can get back) and a bit of your humanity. The designers expect players to die a lot so they made the consequence pretty insignificant to encourage players to keep pushing and then when you succeed there's this amazing feeling of relief and pride.
Minecraft's hardcore mode on the other hand, is no harder than regular minecraft except that when you die (not if) you lose everything. That's more brutal than most ironman modes in any other game I can think of. I can see how looking at your accomplishments in a hardcore world could give you the same sense of pride, but there will always be the threat of dying to something random that for me at least would overshadow that pride.
As a side note, I didn't know you could copy hardcore worlds and change the gamemode. That kind of defeats the whole point doesn't it?
It was never meant to be a difficult game, but it isn't overly easy either, I can think of games that are far more stupidly easy and boring, Fez being one of them, death is literally inconsequential in that game, you don't get game overs, when you die you just respawn and worst of all you lose nothing, no items.
At least in Minecraft there is a consequence for death, even on modes lower than hardcore, the possibly of losing items and you definitely don't get all your XP back, and you may lose track of where your items were, or what happened to me once on my current survival world, where I picked up most of my gear, but a netherrite hoe (which I crafted, it wasn't from a rare trade thank goodness) just glitched through the ground so was lost due to being out of site, which was absurd but whatever, I can make a new one, I just have to keep my feather falling 4 boots on to prevent another death by falling.
The reason I took them off is because they had frost walker, so were a potential hazard for me when I was using riptide while it was raining over an ocean. In bedrock edition frost walker causes water to become ice even if you're stationary on the X and Z coordinates, which should not happen, but it does and is a known bug.
I don't feel like the game should be made too much harder though, otherwise enchantments would begin to lose their value because enchantments would then be unable to protect you from most hazards in the game., then it would defeat the point of the addition of enchantments and potions.
In the Caves and Cliffs update I am predicting that ravines will become much more dangerous so we will need to be extra careful about them by the time this update is released to all versions. At the moment though with full enchanted armour ravines don't matter all that much, even with ones with lava at the bottom if you've got Fire Protection 4, you usually have enough time to get out before fatal damage is done, but you shouldn't mess around or you'll pay the price for it because lava can destroy non netherite items.
Personally I don't really get it, to me it goes against everything minecraft is about.
Yeah uhhh...
A game about spending hours collecting resources and building structures, turning a blank canvas into whatever you want it to be and shaping the world to your will. And then you die and lose everything, I play games to escape reality not be reminded of it. Sure you can spectate the world, but you can't continue something you've poured so much time into; it seems like a waste to me.
It's simple, if playing that mode is an issue, then just don't play it. People wanted a difficulty harder than Hard, and what's exactly what they got.
I started a hardcore world a while back to see what it's like these days, built a nice little hobbit hole and some farms and then basically did nothing else because I'd hate to erase even those few hours of effort. It was a different experience to regular survival for sure, and I would guess that the higher stakes are what draw people to it, but for me it just makes me not want to play.
The mode is not for everyone. It prevents people from getting careless or completely fearless about "well I'll just run back to the spot I died and pick up all my stuff". It adds that sense that one mistake will cost you everything so you better make every move count. This is the added difficulty that people wanted. A lot of people who play it already created everything imaginable and now want to play against the game instead of having all that pure freedom.
So to the people that love hardcore mode, why? What makes you come back to it after you die?
Simply to see "how good I am" or "how far I could go" just for the heck of it.
It was never meant to be a difficult game, but it isn't overly easy either, I can think of games that are far more stupidly easy and boring, Fez being one of them, death is literally inconsequential in that game, you don't get game overs, when you die you just respawn and worst of all you lose nothing, no items.
At least in Minecraft there is a consequence for death, even on modes lower than hardcore, the possibly of losing items and you definitely don't get all your XP back, and you may lose track of where your items were, or what happened to me once on my current survival world, where I picked up most of my gear, but a netherrite hoe (which I crafted, it wasn't from a rare trade thank goodness) just glitched through the ground so was lost due to being out of site, which was absurd but whatever, I can make a new one, I just have to keep my feather falling 4 boots on to prevent another death by falling.
The reason I took them off is because they had frost walker, so were a potential hazard for me when I was using riptide while it was raining over an ocean. In bedrock edition frost walker causes water to become ice even if you're stationary on the X and Z coordinates, which should not happen, but it does and is a known bug.
I don't feel like the game should be made too much harder though, otherwise enchantments would begin to lose their value because enchantments would then be unable to protect you from most hazards in the game., then it would defeat the point of the addition of enchantments and potions.
In the Caves and Cliffs update I am predicting that ravines will become much more dangerous so we will need to be extra careful about them by the time this update is released to all versions. At the moment though with full enchanted armour ravines don't matter all that much, even with ones with lava at the bottom if you've got Fire Protection 4, you usually have enough time to get out before fatal damage is done, but you shouldn't mess around or you'll pay the price for it because lava can destroy non netherite items.
I've never played fez, but yeah I heard it wasn't that great.
As far as minecraft, I actually like the level of consequence in regular survival, it's enough to make you want to stay alive but it's not so punishing that you don't want to play. For me at least, hardcore pushes too far towards the punishing side and I see no incentive to play it. I'd be more interested in it if there were more changes to the core gameplay, currently it doesn't feel any harder than the regular game but if I mess up, I lose everything. IMO that isn't more difficult, it's just more annoying.
It's simple, if playing that mode is an issue, then just don't play it. People wanted a difficulty harder than Hard, and what's exactly what they got.
The mode is not for everyone. It prevents people from getting careless or completely fearless about "well I'll just run back to the spot I died and pick up all my stuff". It adds that sense that one mistake will cost you everything so you better make every move count. This is the added difficulty that people wanted. A lot of people who play it already created everything imaginable and now want to play against the game instead of having all that pure freedom.
Simply to see "how good I am" or "how far I could go" just for the heck of it.
Yeah I figured that would come up, I don't play hardcore, I think I've tried it twice - fairly recently and quite a while ago. Which is why I made this thread, personally I think it's a weird design choice to add more consequence rather than more difficulty in a "hardcore" mode. That doesn't make it any more difficult than hard.
As far as that last sentence, I've always seen it as a challenge mode, but not a very compelling one, I don't really understand why you put so much effort into something that will ultimately end in failure.
Yeah I figured that would come up, I don't play hardcore, I think I've tried it twice - fairly recently and quite a while ago. Which is why I made this thread, personally I think it's a weird design choice to add more consequence rather than more difficulty in a "hardcore" mode. That doesn't make it any more difficult than hard.
Uhhhh, yes. Yes it does. Technically that's just straight up objectively wrong. Having one life is harder than having infinite lives. It's not the most creative idea in the world to add difficulty in that way, but it still adds difficulty. I'm not here to stomp on your opinion, but I don't see how Hardcore Mode is as bizarre as you think it is.
As far as that last sentence, I've always seen it as a challenge mode, but not a very compelling one, I don't really understand why you put so much effort into something that will ultimately end in failure.
I agree, Hardcore isn't this genius idea for adding difficulty, and I think there should be an "Expert" or "Harder" mode that still has infinite (or maybe even limited) lives where the damage done to the player is higher than Hard. But Hardcore Mode is fine too. As for the part I marked in blue, this is something a lot of players love. The freedom of doing what you want is still there, you just have to be careful to not rush into those Zombie Pigmen fights where you're outnumbered. You have to think a little more before rushing into the Nether with little to no armor. You have to plan your movements before throwing yourself in those Cave Spider filled abandoned mines.
Maybe you find it ridiculous that days and days of work could vanish from one mistake, but that hanging over your head is something a lot players adore because it keeps them on their toes. The mere fact of infinite lives spoils it for them. There's probably some players out there going "how can anyone NOT play hardcore mode? if you can just respawn forever, where's the real challenge?" Again, Hardcore Mode isn't for everyone, and no one is forced to play it.
I'm thinking about giving it a go once I get more familiar with the game. I may build a small house or two but I don't see myself spending a bunch of time building fancy things in hardcore. I rather a mode where I lose all my items after death but able to play the same world. have the game spawn me far away from my previous base. I like the idea of stumbling across them someday on accident should I go exploring.
I'm thinking about giving it a go once I get more familiar with the game. I may build a small house or two but I don't see myself spending a bunch of time building fancy things in hardcore. I rather a mode where I lose all my items after death but able to play the same world. have the game spawn me far away from my previous base. I like the idea of stumbling across them someday on accident should I go exploring.
We only have 1 life for real anyway, we already have something that can permanently halt us, I don't like to be reminded of it when I'm gaming. With death you really do lose everything. If I was to attempt hardcore I'd do it for the same reasons as you, but I wouldn't use it for building cities on because one error, something humans naturally do, would mean losing hundreds of hours of work and in my opinion would be time wasted.
At least on hard, normal and easy if you have arena battles with friends and die you'll still respawn back at the bed in your house. And something like PVP battles can be a lot harder than battling monsters with fully enchanted armour. Losing an entire world is a steep penalty even for players who are good at the game and have survived long sessions in the Nether and End. Hardcore mode is strictly for challenge and nothing less, it's a difficulty tier that exists but you are not forced to use it, players who want it have it, players who don't want it, don't have to use it.
We only have 1 life for real anyway, we already have something that can permanently halt us, I don't like to be reminded of it when I'm gaming. With death you really do lose everything. If I was to attempt hardcore I'd do it for the same reasons as you, but I wouldn't use it for building cities on because one error, something humans naturally do, would mean losing hundreds of hours of work and in my opinion would be time wasted.
At least on hard, normal and easy if you have arena battles with friends and die you'll still respawn back at the bed in your house. And something like PVP battles can be a lot harder than battling monsters with fully enchanted armour. Losing an entire world is a steep penalty even for players who are good at the game and have survived long sessions in the Nether and End. Hardcore mode is strictly for challenge and nothing less, it's a difficulty tier that exists but you are not forced to use it, players who want it have it, players who don't want it, don't have to use it.
Yeah, hardcore is not for everyone. These kind of modes should always be optional. If there was a similar mode available to how I described in my previous post then I could easily see myself gravitate towards it while not being too scared to have creative builds or try risky things... Even if it meant losing all items in chests. I've played so many permadeath games, stuff like FTL (faster than light) and there's something special about accomplishing those things, it can also give nail biting moments that you wouldn't get in a normal game. We can bring up such games but the reality is that a lot of them are designed around such mode.. The time invested while still experiencing the best parts of the game is not as punishing as Minecraft.
I agree with some of the posts above how hardcore in minecraft is more about the consequence than adding challenging mechanics. I wouldn't expect them to make super challenging bosses or something tho. There's nothing wrong with skipping builds etc. to beeline the enderdragon or whatever your end goal is, but in order to not have a ton of time with EVERYTHING flushed down the drain over a slip up, then you can't get too involved building ambitious things or long adventures, which puts a huge dent in minecrafts charm/gameloop.
If my character dies several times in survival then I got the supplies to easily get back on my feet. I may experience moments of panic, they are less likely to happen now. Having those super intense moments don't really exist for me. Also, at some point it's going to be difficult to decide, "okay now I'm finished." The experience of having to start from scratch serves a unique vibe and I rather not ignore. So I guess my plans are to keep playing on this world, but if it gets stale then I'll fly far away and start a new base without my items. I hope that explains why I hope for such mode to be available some day, cause it really would offer a unique feel for the game. Ooop I just read there's no hardcore in bedrock so looks like I can't even experience that anytime soon. lol
Uhhhh, yes. Yes it does. Technically that's just straight up objectively wrong. Having one life is harder than having infinite lives. It's not the most creative idea in the world to add difficulty in that way, but it still adds difficulty. I'm not here to stomp on your opinion, but I don't see how Hardcore Mode is as bizarre as you think it is.
I agree, Hardcore isn't this genius idea for adding difficulty, and I think there should be an "Expert" or "Harder" mode that still has infinite (or maybe even limited) lives where the damage done to the player is higher than Hard. But Hardcore Mode is fine too. As for the part I marked in blue, this is something a lot of players love. The freedom of doing what you want is still there, you just have to be careful to not rush into those Zombie Pigmen fights where you're outnumbered. You have to think a little more before rushing into the Nether with little to no armor. You have to plan your movements before throwing yourself in those Cave Spider filled abandoned mines.
Maybe you find it ridiculous that days and days of work could vanish from one mistake, but that hanging over your head is something a lot players adore because it keeps them on their toes. The mere fact of infinite lives spoils it for them. There's probably some players out there going "how can anyone NOT play hardcore mode? if you can just respawn forever, where's the real challenge?" Again, Hardcore Mode isn't for everyone, and no one is forced to play it.
I'd still argue that the added consequence of hardcore does not make it more difficult than hard moment to moment. Damage does not change, hunger depletion does not change, the length of a night doesn't change, mob spawning rates don't change, the only change is the consequence of failure. That forces you to be far more careful, of course, but the actual difficulty is the same. But honestly its just semantics at this point, I think you understand what I mean.
Aside from that, I can see how it would appeal to a player that likes the heightened level of danger and feels that being able to respawn is a detriment to the experience. For that reason, I appreciate that Mojang added it, more options for the player base is never a bad thing. I guess I'm just not a fan of it, though I would be interested in an expert or very hard difficulty.
Yeah, hardcore is not for everyone. These kind of modes should always be optional. If there was a similar mode available to how I described in my previous post then I could easily see myself gravitate towards it while not being too scared to have creative builds or try risky things... Even if it meant losing all items in chests. I've played so many permadeath games, stuff like FTL (faster than light) and there's something special about accomplishing those things, it can also give nail biting moments that you wouldn't get in a normal game. We can bring up such games but the reality is that a lot of them are designed around such mode.. The time invested while still experiencing the best parts of the game is not as punishing as Minecraft.
I agree with some of the posts above how hardcore in minecraft is more about the consequence than adding challenging mechanics. I wouldn't expect them to make super challenging bosses or something tho. There's nothing wrong with skipping builds etc. to beeline the enderdragon or whatever your end goal is, but in order to not have a ton of time with EVERYTHING flushed down the drain over a slip up, then you can't get too involved building ambitious things or long adventures, which puts a huge dent in minecrafts charm/gameloop.
If my character dies several times in survival then I got the supplies to easily get back on my feet. I may experience moments of panic, they are less likely to happen now. Having those super intense moments don't really exist for me. Also, at some point it's going to be difficult to decide, "okay now I'm finished." The experience of having to start from scratch serves a unique vibe and I rather not ignore. So I guess my plans are to keep playing on this world, but if it gets stale then I'll fly far away and start a new base without my items. I hope that explains why I hope for such mode to be available some day, cause it really would offer a unique feel for the game. Ooop I just read there's no hardcore in bedrock so looks like I can't even experience that anytime soon. lol
I love FTL, I've been playing a lot of slay the spire recently too, and darkest dungeon is fun even though I'm not very good at it, I generally enjoy rougelikes. Games like that work because they really lean into it and the fun comes from understanding and using the systems to your advantage, and then delivering a satisfying pay-off. And like you said, Minecraft wasn't designed like that, so hardcore's always felt a bit tacked on to me, that's not to say I think they should remove it though, the people who like it would be really mad at that.
Rather than really hard bosses, I'd like to see them add more challenging mechanics to hardcore or a different expert mode with respawns like you mentioned. I think it would be interesting to add the common suggestions like thirst and temperature, maybe even natural disasters, that get shot down for being too disruptive to hardcore (or a special expert mode). In a mode like that, they would add to the challenge without being too annoying as it's the player's choice to use them or not. I doubt that they ever will though.
Personally I don't really get it, to me it goes against everything minecraft is about. A game about spending hours collecting resources and building structures, turning a blank canvas into whatever you want it to be and shaping the world to your will. And then you die and lose everything, I play games to escape reality not be reminded of it. Sure you can spectate the world, but you can't continue something you've poured so much time into; it seems like a waste to me.
I started a hardcore world a while back to see what it's like these days, built a nice little hobbit hole and some farms and then basically did nothing else because I'd hate to erase even those few hours of effort. It was a different experience to regular survival for sure, and I would guess that the higher stakes are what draw people to it, but for me it just makes me not want to play.
So to the people that love hardcore mode, why? What makes you come back to it after you die?
I don't play it myself, but I can see why others would, it is one life, and world gets wiped after spectator mode is done with.
But I'd rather not have all my builds be deleted if it can be helped because to me having all your work be destroyed for a mistake isn't what I would call fun. Some would allege that the game is too easy but if you suggested they play on hardcore mode, I bet the majority of them probably won't because they are well aware of the implications of that or what may happen if they put a lot of time into building up a small town and then one mistake in the Nether or End cost them potentially years of work.
It's bad enough that we can lose inventory items if we die in lava or in the Void, or simply not remembering the place or exact coordinates where we died, hardcore mode puts this penalty on overdrive and includes your entire world also.
Not enough people do seem to acknowledge that there is such a thing as too hard or excessive punishment, because they like seeing others suffer in some way which is unfortunately a nefarious thing about human nature.
I'm not saying there are people who are wanting hardcore mode to become the standard mode of the game replacing the other survival difficulty modes, but over the time I've been on these forums there have been numerous suggestions I witnessed that in my view weren't much better, some associates I frequent threads with saw the same.
Hardcore mode does need to be implemented as a separate difficulty mode in bedrock edition, as it already is in Java edition.
But it should be just that, nothing more because not everyone wants to deal with the complete erasure of their world and in game progress.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. I would generally agree that minecraft doesn't really offer that much challenge but I don't think it needs to be a hard game. I guess hardcore is mainly a challenge mode that forces a player to beat the game without dying, but to me it just doesn't make sense in a game that doesn't really end.
Also I had no idea there was no hardcore mode in bedrock, that seems like a strange choice.
There are plenty of survival games that cater to players that want more of a challenge anyway, and besides I don't feel like super hard or grindy fits Minecraft except for hardcore mode because it is a game for everyone not just adults. If people younger than I am don't like being killed by Creepers or Skeletons all the time they should have the option to have less or none of that happening in an official non cheat related game mode.
I don't play on easy or peaceful but I am proud that this game does have these modes for younger or inexperienced players so they can learn the basics so they can someday hold their own in normal or hard when that time comes.
Not to mention mobs are just annoying when you're trying to build something; if I'm playing creative I can almost guarantee you that I'll be on peaceful. Hardcore on the other hand must have been added to appease masochists, different strokes for different folks I guess.
I'm fine with hardcore mode's addition because it is a separate mode so does nothing to interfere with the general Minecraft survival experience, it's there for people who got bored of the other modes and wanted to test their limits.
I just don't like it when people make non optional suggestions that end up affecting lower difficulties and are forced on players who don't want it. These changes include things like rarer ore generation, pillager raids able to destroy player bases and steal their items, diseases, natural disasters and so on.
I can't help but wonder that these suggestions are sometimes being made by people who got upset that they cannot enter somebody else's whitelist world due to having a reputation of breaking rules and griefing, so they're trying to have Mojang code AI to do the job for them.
It isn't necessarily hardcore mode advocates, because a lot of people trying to have these changes forced on the general Minecraft experience do play on the other modes too and unfortunately bedrock edition doesn't allow you to stop updates being forced on you.
I think it's for the people that want a more realistic minecraft experience which includes all the losses that come with living a good life. One life.
Don't make me drive unless you wanna make me sliiide, left right left right
I agree, I do want it to become an option in bedrock edition because this is one of the points that get brought up when people compare Java to bedrock edition.
Minecraft would be a truly sandbox experience if bedrock edition had all the features Java version did.
When i create a world in that mode, i turn off insomnia before getting started and don't craft / steal a bed.
That's my only rule: don't skip a night unless you find a village!
Then i think about what i wan't to accomplish. I've never realy tried to go for the dragon, that wouldn't satisfy me.
I'm mostly traveling the overworld in hardcore, trying to find a beautiful place to build something or search for rare items.
I don't take it to serious. The moment i stumble into an illager outpost i am dead meat for sure!
What i also enjoy is to play minecraft realy dark, no matter the difficulty.
With optifine (by that i mean the glowing torch in the hand thingy) it's just way more fun to explore the darkness.
Also i wouldn't make backups from hardcore worlds. Sure dying to a glitch or lag is frustrating but to me it counts.
Minecraft just isn't a safe game when it comes to that.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
I can see why others may not like hardcore mode, as you can lose possibly hundreds of hours of work to some baby zombie. I think that the reason why many people like it is because it makes Minecraft a more challenging game. Some people may feel that this extra challenge is needed, as Minecraft can be a very easy game. Others may just want a new Minecraft experience. Plus, it is also a gamble, and some people can find those kind of things exciting. Another thing is that if you happen to build something incredible and don't want to lose it, they can always make a copy of the world and play it in a different game mode. In addition to this, Minecraft hardcore content seems to be popular on YouTube (as seen with Ph1LzA and Luke TheNotable's hardcore series), so aspiring Minecraft YouTubers may play hardcore in hopes of becoming more popular.
To me minecraft is realy more a sandbox then a game. Sometimes i regred that i've deleted my very first world but since minecraft doesn't have a story aka "lore" i haven't kept a single world for more then a few months. Aside from accomplishing your own goals there is no beating the game imo.
Minecraft gets better with every option. Hardcore fit's very well in minecraft becouse it's the only end to a game with no true goal.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
I have no issue with it being in the game for sure, but it doesn't really make sense to me as it stands (see below). Maybe it needs an overhaul where some of those features that would make the game more difficult could be added exclusively to hardcore mode.
That's an interesting take, personally minecraft's world-gen isn't interesting enough for me to just wander around. Why do that on hardcore rather than another difficulty?
I totally agree, I'd argue that the end of the "game" is after you beat the ender dragon and the credits roll, but obviously that isn't all the content in the game. That's why I said it doesn't make sense to me in a game that doesn't end, the only two outcomes to a hardcore world are you die, or you choose to stop playing. I guess that adds one more outcome than regular survival but is it really a useful option?
Minecraft is not a difficult game, that's for sure, but hardcore doesn't add difficulty - it adds consequence. I can see how it makes for a different experience, but I still don't understand why anyone would want to play a game with such a punishing consequence.
I'm gonna compare minecraft to dark souls here, which is obviously extreme, but they're the hardest games I can think of that I enjoy. Dark souls was so difficult when it came out that it spawned an entirely new genre of games, but playing them feels good because they reward skill and aggression and it really feels like you've accomplished something when you make any progress. But what is the consequence for dying in a dark souls game? The only thing you lose is a bit of progression, your souls (which you can get back) and a bit of your humanity. The designers expect players to die a lot so they made the consequence pretty insignificant to encourage players to keep pushing and then when you succeed there's this amazing feeling of relief and pride.
Minecraft's hardcore mode on the other hand, is no harder than regular minecraft except that when you die (not if) you lose everything. That's more brutal than most ironman modes in any other game I can think of. I can see how looking at your accomplishments in a hardcore world could give you the same sense of pride, but there will always be the threat of dying to something random that for me at least would overshadow that pride.
As a side note, I didn't know you could copy hardcore worlds and change the gamemode. That kind of defeats the whole point doesn't it?
It was never meant to be a difficult game, but it isn't overly easy either, I can think of games that are far more stupidly easy and boring, Fez being one of them, death is literally inconsequential in that game, you don't get game overs, when you die you just respawn and worst of all you lose nothing, no items.
At least in Minecraft there is a consequence for death, even on modes lower than hardcore, the possibly of losing items and you definitely don't get all your XP back, and you may lose track of where your items were, or what happened to me once on my current survival world, where I picked up most of my gear, but a netherrite hoe (which I crafted, it wasn't from a rare trade thank goodness) just glitched through the ground so was lost due to being out of site, which was absurd but whatever, I can make a new one, I just have to keep my feather falling 4 boots on to prevent another death by falling.
The reason I took them off is because they had frost walker, so were a potential hazard for me when I was using riptide while it was raining over an ocean. In bedrock edition frost walker causes water to become ice even if you're stationary on the X and Z coordinates, which should not happen, but it does and is a known bug.
I don't feel like the game should be made too much harder though, otherwise enchantments would begin to lose their value because enchantments would then be unable to protect you from most hazards in the game., then it would defeat the point of the addition of enchantments and potions.
In the Caves and Cliffs update I am predicting that ravines will become much more dangerous so we will need to be extra careful about them by the time this update is released to all versions. At the moment though with full enchanted armour ravines don't matter all that much, even with ones with lava at the bottom if you've got Fire Protection 4, you usually have enough time to get out before fatal damage is done, but you shouldn't mess around or you'll pay the price for it because lava can destroy non netherite items.
Yeah uhhh...
It's simple, if playing that mode is an issue, then just don't play it. People wanted a difficulty harder than Hard, and what's exactly what they got.
The mode is not for everyone. It prevents people from getting careless or completely fearless about "well I'll just run back to the spot I died and pick up all my stuff". It adds that sense that one mistake will cost you everything so you better make every move count. This is the added difficulty that people wanted. A lot of people who play it already created everything imaginable and now want to play against the game instead of having all that pure freedom.
Simply to see "how good I am" or "how far I could go" just for the heck of it.
I've never played fez, but yeah I heard it wasn't that great.
As far as minecraft, I actually like the level of consequence in regular survival, it's enough to make you want to stay alive but it's not so punishing that you don't want to play. For me at least, hardcore pushes too far towards the punishing side and I see no incentive to play it. I'd be more interested in it if there were more changes to the core gameplay, currently it doesn't feel any harder than the regular game but if I mess up, I lose everything. IMO that isn't more difficult, it's just more annoying.
Yeah I figured that would come up, I don't play hardcore, I think I've tried it twice - fairly recently and quite a while ago. Which is why I made this thread, personally I think it's a weird design choice to add more consequence rather than more difficulty in a "hardcore" mode. That doesn't make it any more difficult than hard.
As far as that last sentence, I've always seen it as a challenge mode, but not a very compelling one, I don't really understand why you put so much effort into something that will ultimately end in failure.
Uhhhh, yes. Yes it does. Technically that's just straight up objectively wrong. Having one life is harder than having infinite lives. It's not the most creative idea in the world to add difficulty in that way, but it still adds difficulty. I'm not here to stomp on your opinion, but I don't see how Hardcore Mode is as bizarre as you think it is.
I agree, Hardcore isn't this genius idea for adding difficulty, and I think there should be an "Expert" or "Harder" mode that still has infinite (or maybe even limited) lives where the damage done to the player is higher than Hard. But Hardcore Mode is fine too. As for the part I marked in blue, this is something a lot of players love. The freedom of doing what you want is still there, you just have to be careful to not rush into those Zombie Pigmen fights where you're outnumbered. You have to think a little more before rushing into the Nether with little to no armor. You have to plan your movements before throwing yourself in those Cave Spider filled abandoned mines.
Maybe you find it ridiculous that days and days of work could vanish from one mistake, but that hanging over your head is something a lot players adore because it keeps them on their toes. The mere fact of infinite lives spoils it for them. There's probably some players out there going "how can anyone NOT play hardcore mode? if you can just respawn forever, where's the real challenge?" Again, Hardcore Mode isn't for everyone, and no one is forced to play it.
I'm thinking about giving it a go once I get more familiar with the game. I may build a small house or two but I don't see myself spending a bunch of time building fancy things in hardcore. I rather a mode where I lose all my items after death but able to play the same world. have the game spawn me far away from my previous base. I like the idea of stumbling across them someday on accident should I go exploring.
We only have 1 life for real anyway, we already have something that can permanently halt us, I don't like to be reminded of it when I'm gaming. With death you really do lose everything. If I was to attempt hardcore I'd do it for the same reasons as you, but I wouldn't use it for building cities on because one error, something humans naturally do, would mean losing hundreds of hours of work and in my opinion would be time wasted.
At least on hard, normal and easy if you have arena battles with friends and die you'll still respawn back at the bed in your house. And something like PVP battles can be a lot harder than battling monsters with fully enchanted armour. Losing an entire world is a steep penalty even for players who are good at the game and have survived long sessions in the Nether and End. Hardcore mode is strictly for challenge and nothing less, it's a difficulty tier that exists but you are not forced to use it, players who want it have it, players who don't want it, don't have to use it.
Yeah, hardcore is not for everyone. These kind of modes should always be optional. If there was a similar mode available to how I described in my previous post then I could easily see myself gravitate towards it while not being too scared to have creative builds or try risky things... Even if it meant losing all items in chests. I've played so many permadeath games, stuff like FTL (faster than light) and there's something special about accomplishing those things, it can also give nail biting moments that you wouldn't get in a normal game. We can bring up such games but the reality is that a lot of them are designed around such mode.. The time invested while still experiencing the best parts of the game is not as punishing as Minecraft.
I agree with some of the posts above how hardcore in minecraft is more about the consequence than adding challenging mechanics. I wouldn't expect them to make super challenging bosses or something tho. There's nothing wrong with skipping builds etc. to beeline the enderdragon or whatever your end goal is, but in order to not have a ton of time with EVERYTHING flushed down the drain over a slip up, then you can't get too involved building ambitious things or long adventures, which puts a huge dent in minecrafts charm/gameloop.
If my character dies several times in survival then I got the supplies to easily get back on my feet. I may experience moments of panic, they are less likely to happen now. Having those super intense moments don't really exist for me. Also, at some point it's going to be difficult to decide, "okay now I'm finished." The experience of having to start from scratch serves a unique vibe and I rather not ignore. So I guess my plans are to keep playing on this world, but if it gets stale then I'll fly far away and start a new base without my items. I hope that explains why I hope for such mode to be available some day, cause it really would offer a unique feel for the game. Ooop I just read there's no hardcore in bedrock so looks like I can't even experience that anytime soon. lol
I'd still argue that the added consequence of hardcore does not make it more difficult than hard moment to moment. Damage does not change, hunger depletion does not change, the length of a night doesn't change, mob spawning rates don't change, the only change is the consequence of failure. That forces you to be far more careful, of course, but the actual difficulty is the same. But honestly its just semantics at this point, I think you understand what I mean.
Aside from that, I can see how it would appeal to a player that likes the heightened level of danger and feels that being able to respawn is a detriment to the experience. For that reason, I appreciate that Mojang added it, more options for the player base is never a bad thing. I guess I'm just not a fan of it, though I would be interested in an expert or very hard difficulty.
I love FTL, I've been playing a lot of slay the spire recently too, and darkest dungeon is fun even though I'm not very good at it, I generally enjoy rougelikes. Games like that work because they really lean into it and the fun comes from understanding and using the systems to your advantage, and then delivering a satisfying pay-off. And like you said, Minecraft wasn't designed like that, so hardcore's always felt a bit tacked on to me, that's not to say I think they should remove it though, the people who like it would be really mad at that.
Rather than really hard bosses, I'd like to see them add more challenging mechanics to hardcore or a different expert mode with respawns like you mentioned. I think it would be interesting to add the common suggestions like thirst and temperature, maybe even natural disasters, that get shot down for being too disruptive to hardcore (or a special expert mode). In a mode like that, they would add to the challenge without being too annoying as it's the player's choice to use them or not. I doubt that they ever will though.