My friend decided to give the 1 week trial of Realms a try so I thought it'd be fun to play on our own server together, since it's been awhile since I played a real Minecraft playthrough.
There's a lot of new stuff I haven't experienced yet like the underwater update so I decided to give some of that content a try. Found an early ship wreck and got some things, cool. Swam a distance from spawn and found an underwater ruins, got rid of the Drowned, went down and looted some chests. Found a map and made my way over to the X which took a good half hour or so before some Phantoms came and killed me. I tried with all I could with my stone sword, but it didn't do ANYTHING to them. And when you're in the ocean, you're just not fast enough to reliably dodge them. So I get killed since going too long without sleep is "overpowered" somehow apparently.
I remembered my coords and we head back, he finds the chest and it's loaded with emeralds, diamonds, gold, iron, and a heart of the sea. I take the stuff and head back, happy to get something out of this frustrating death.. but then a bunch of drowned spawn later on, one with a trident, and murders me. Knocked me out of my boat, and couldn't out swim it. Even tried to use other drowned as shields to block some hits, but it wasn't enough. Literally no chance at all, it just kills me. Tried to go back to get my items again, but it takes too long searching in the middle of the ocean. Finally found my boat with items no where to be seen.
Just why? Why. Why is there a need to punish players for not sleeping? How is any new player supposed to figure that out? How are new players supposed to deal with drowned with tridents? I was literally just passing by. I wasn't stopping to check out ruins or anything, just rowing by to get back to spawn and I get killed for it, and lose my items permanently. I can get it if they're inside temples or whatever, but I was just PASSING BY. This is so frustrating. I have NEVER been this frustrated before when playing Minecraft, and I've played it for years. It makes me not want to play.
I just don't get it. Why are these punishments necessary? Why is it risky to swim around? Why is it risky to not find wool so you can sleep? This adds nothing but frustration for no reason and only makes the game worse. This is the most unfun experience of Minecraft I've had BY FAR.
Sounds like you ran into a number of the predicted issues (with 1.13 by the sound of it):
MobB largely forces one to stay under cover [MobB does not spawn if the player is under any light blocking block (leaves included) or below sea level.], except when the day is bright enough for them to have finished burning, until able to procure a bed...
...and then to play with one eye on the clock.
Trident weilding drowned are quite rare as evidenced by the efforts of players to find duch when wishing to secure a trident. [Which is cold comfort to an early game player who does encounter one.] Without good armor and some movemnt enchantments (ie Depth Strider) they have a strong advantage over the player unless one can get out of the water [Drowned movement advantage vanishes on land] thus making staying away from oceans – and large rivers [f3 being needed to tell river from 'pond'] – until well enough equiped to handle them.
While answers to the "WHY?" questions are speculative, there are two major themes:
☣ first that this increases the adventerousness of play (which is fine for those who want more FRPG-style adventuring in their MC; for those who don't, rather not so much)
☣ second there is MS/Mj's apparent attitude toward farms. automation, and large scale trading:
"Now let's have a look at Mojang's attitude towards automated farms: They basically don't like them which is fine, it's their very own personal opinion. BUT: Is it fair to just make automated mob farms impossible or make it at least very hard to build them?! I don't think so. If Jeb thinks (he also tweeted) that mob farms are in his eyes item duplicators he does not have to use them. But a lot of people built gold and iron farms in their worlds for a reason. It would be pretty unfair to just take them away or make them useless, cause it is a lot of effort to build this."
[from a post now memory-holed]
To what extent each of these (or some of the other less commonly suggested reasons) is responsible for the direction in which MC appear to be being driven can not be unchallengeably determined…
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
That's literally no different than before the introduction of the phantoms, some of the most common tips about early game Minecraft include finding sheep quickly to get wool. The only difference is that the hostile threat now comes from the sky and cannot be as easily ignored. Thus, some players hate it. It's the same sort of foolish tantrum that the playerbase threw when 1.9 first dropped...when some of us still spamclicked and stopped being able to do damage.
Why is there a need to punish players for not sleeping?
Stepping away from the specifics of the complaint for a moment, one of the major concepts that ruins video games (in my opinion) is the ability to reset things. You're going along doing your own thing and then--BAM!--something you didn't expect suddenly wrecks your face enough that you either run away or die (probably rather quickly, too). You then respawn to a point before that surprise happens, probably with all the stuff you wasted trying to salvage the situation initially, and you probably change eq to better manage what happened...and then, when you're finally ready, you creep closer and closer until you deliberately trigger the "surprise" again. Yes, yes, yes...I know it's a game and games should not only be fun but should also not feel like significant amounts of work, but there really should be some consequences for "try, try again" tactics and there just aren't any.
Specifically for Minecraft beds, the game was reaching a point where a lot of the playerbase was effectively able to treat general natural mob spawning as if it were a mob grinder (a structure carefully designed to avoid all or at least almost all risk). While Mojang did compromise and shackle phantoms to the bed so that players could completely avoid them (the same as all other hostile mobs), now you can't just completely ignore that aspect of the game because it's just so easy for you. Sucks if you find it challenging, but majority rules, right?
That's literally no different than before the introduction of the phantoms, some of the most common tips about early game Minecraft include finding sheep quickly to get wool. The only difference is that the hostile threat now comes from the sky and cannot be as easily ignored. Thus, some players hate it. It's the same sort of foolish tantrum that the playerbase threw when 1.9 first dropped...when some of us still spamclicked and stopped being able to do damage.
Stepping away from the specifics of the complaint for a moment, one of the major concepts that ruins video games (in my opinion) is the ability to reset things. You're going along doing your own thing and then--BAM!--something you didn't expect suddenly wrecks your face enough that you either run away or die (probably rather quickly, too). You then respawn to a point before that surprise happens, probably with all the stuff you wasted trying to salvage the situation initially, and you probably change eq to better manage what happened...and then, when you're finally ready, you creep closer and closer until you deliberately trigger the "surprise" again. Yes, yes, yes...I know it's a game and games should not only be fun but should also not feel like significant amounts of work, but there really should be some consequences for "try, try again" tactics and there just aren't any.
Specifically for Minecraft beds, the game was reaching a point where a lot of the playerbase was effectively able to treat general natural mob spawning as if it were a mob grinder (a structure carefully designed to avoid all or at least almost all risk). While Mojang did compromise and shackle phantoms to the bed so that players could completely avoid them (the same as all other hostile mobs), now you can't just completely ignore that aspect of the game because it's just so easy for you. Sucks if you find it challenging, but majority rules, right?
If you can simply sleep to prevent them, then what's the point of having them? They effectively punish the player for NOT sleeping. Of course, wool was often sought for to skip nights, but sometimes sheep are rare, and when you don't own a bed and others do, you can quickly relog to skip the night. That's what happened to me, I was exploring without a bed and relogged when my friend was sleeping, and eventually phantoms appeared and killed me. The game has gone how many years where not sleeping isn't a punishment? So why is it a punishment now? Phantoms should just be another creature you find in the End. It needs more mobs anyway. There'd be more use for them there than pointlessly punishing those who can't find wool. Having to endure or wait out the night is "punishment" enough for not tracking down any sheep. No reason to have phantoms kill you for it as well.
As I stated in my post, I was not risking anything as I was simply rowing back to spawn, on the way back. I wasn't dipping down to explore ruins or a temple or anything, I was simply rowing my boat and suddenly a drowned appeared from below and knocked me out. There was a huge group of them, one with a trident, who ended up killing me. Same with phantoms, you could boat safely, but now there's this punishment for no good reason. I was not engaging in some difficult task, not fighting a boss, not raiding a temple, I was simply boating and get killed for it. It's not fair.
EDIT: To clarify, I don't "find it challenging." It is an anti-fun feature that pointlessly ruins enjoyment, just because.
ike you ran into a number of the predicted issues (with 1.13 by the sound of it):
MobB largely forces one to stay under cover [MobB does not spawn if the player is under any light blocking block (leaves included) or below sea level.], except when the day is bright enough for them to have finished burning, until able to procure a bed...
...and then to play with one eye on the clock.
Trident weilding drowned are quite rare as evidenced by the efforts of players to find duch when wishing to secure a trident. [Which is cold comfort to an early game player who does encounter one.] Without good armor and some movemnt enchantments (ie Depth Strider) they have a strong advantage over the player unless one can get out of the water [Drowned movement advantage vanishes on land] thus making staying away from oceans – and large rivers [f3 being needed to tell river from 'pond'] – until well enough equiped to handle them.
While answers to the "WHY?" questions are speculative, there are two major themes:
☣ first that this increases the adventerousness of play (which is fine for those who want more FRPG-style adventuring in their MC; for those who don't, rather not so much)
☣ second there is MS/Mj's apparent attitude toward farms. automation, and large scale trading:
[from a post now memory-holed]
To what extent each of these (or some of the other less commonly suggested reasons) is responsible for the direction in which MC appear to be being driven can not be unchallengeably determined…
Well, I don't think anti-grinder mechanics should interfere with those who don't use grinders. Though I thought they said they don't mind grinders as long as they're not too easy to design. Personally I've never used any grinder besides cobble generators for sky block.
I'm not as into Mojang's stuff as other users here, but as a feel,I suspect that these new "challenges" were "suggested" by who wants MC to open up to a wider range of players.
Until yesterday, MC was more building/exploring oriented, It was great as you could use your imagination and, taken the right precautions, do your things in peace, if you wanted the challenge you had to go out looking for it.
This cuts out those players who are not into building or elaborating complex machines with the given tools (ilmango and friends are the top expression of that playstyle).
I guess somebody wants to get some revenue back (aka squeeze the lemon), probably a few players yelled that they wanted more challenge, so Mojang did some marketing research, what turned out probably was that people wished MC to be more "challenging"...and here we are:-)
But isn't this game called "MINE-CRAFT"??
Note that the Developers are hardly to blame, they are not investors, they don't own the Company, maybe some is a shareholder, but he surely does not dictate the guidelines 100%, who has put in the big buck does.
This is a trend I noticed across the board, people in suits in front of an Excel module, they know nothing about gaming, but they need those lines to match the figures they need in order to get benefits, bonuses etc....or just keep their job.
This is how you get rushed full-game releases, P2W, microtransactions etc.
At least in MC it's only a few mobs, put in in peaceful and they are gone...after all, a naked Steve cannot compete against dudes shooting tridents, it gets really annoying at least for me and the way I play.
As for me, i am on and off peaceful mode...which bugs me a lot.
That's literally no different than before the introduction of the phantoms, some of the most common tips about early game Minecraft include finding sheep quickly to get wool. The only difference is that the hostile threat now comes from the sky and cannot be as easily ignored. Thus, some players hate it. It's the same sort of foolish tantrum that the playerbase threw when 1.9 first dropped...when some of us still spamclicked and stopped being able to do damage.
"The only difference is that the hostile threat now … cannot be as easily ignored."
A very succinct expression of the crux of the matter: there now exists no practical way for those not interested in the MS/Mj preferred style of play to avoid its intrusions.
[I would, by the bye, consider at least a large fraction of the objections as reasoned arguments against a foolish and divisive decision….
Even should fast, simple, cheap, and inoffensive ways be found to neutralize the Mojang Orbitting Bed Bully, et al, there remains the issue of the corporation moving away from the sandbox that made the game so successful an into the coercive railroad model.]
Specifically for Minecraft beds, the game was reaching a point where a lot of the playerbase was effectively able to treat general natural mob spawning as if it were a mob grinder (a structure carefully designed to avoid all or at least almost all risk). While Mojang did compromise and shackle phantoms to the bed so that players could completely avoid them (the same as all other hostile mobs), now you can't just completely ignore that aspect of the game because it's just so easy for you. Sucks if you find it challenging, but majority rules, right?
And why is this a bad thing?
Those who did not want to be "effectively able to treat general natural mob spawning as if it were a mob grinder" have always been free to avoid builds, fencing, lighting, and other safety measures (as well as playing without enchantments, armor, and weapons if such was desired).
[Note that MobB is also easily avoided simply by slight modifications to the AFK position, what it prevents is being able to enjoy activities such as logging through the night or hunting endermen from an overworld perch. (Both activities now require easy but tedious preparation of large areas, not to mention contributing to the cobblestone boxes issue so disliked by many aestheaticians.) ]
Similarly, the drowned ability to spawn in open water essentially makes it impossible to build deep water vases (or bases incorporatin deep water) that are both safe and pretty.
Again, the procedure to render such a base safe is not hard; it is just long, tedious, ugly, and sightlines and free movement.
As to 'majority rules', I am unaware of any plebiscite on the issue (much less any that drew more than a trival response rate).
You might, of course be refering to either the Golden Rule [cynic's version], or something akin to the Soviet model [only full voting members of the Central Committee cast ballots]… in either of which cases, you may well be right.
My friend decided to give the 1 week trial of Realms a try so I thought it'd be fun to play on our own server together, since it's been awhile since I played a real Minecraft playthrough.
There's a lot of new stuff I haven't experienced yet like the underwater update so I decided to give some of that content a try. Found an early ship wreck and got some things, cool. Swam a distance from spawn and found an underwater ruins, got rid of the Drowned, went down and looted some chests. Found a map and made my way over to the X which took a good half hour or so before some Phantoms came and killed me. I tried with all I could with my stone sword, but it didn't do ANYTHING to them. And when you're in the ocean, you're just not fast enough to reliably dodge them. So I get killed since going too long without sleep is "overpowered" somehow apparently.
I remembered my coords and we head back, he finds the chest and it's loaded with emeralds, diamonds, gold, iron, and a heart of the sea. I take the stuff and head back, happy to get something out of this frustrating death.. but then a bunch of drowned spawn later on, one with a trident, and murders me. Knocked me out of my boat, and couldn't out swim it. Even tried to use other drowned as shields to block some hits, but it wasn't enough. Literally no chance at all, it just kills me. Tried to go back to get my items again, but it takes too long searching in the middle of the ocean. Finally found my boat with items no where to be seen.
Just why? Why. Why is there a need to punish players for not sleeping? How is any new player supposed to figure that out? How are new players supposed to deal with drowned with tridents? I was literally just passing by. I wasn't stopping to check out ruins or anything, just rowing by to get back to spawn and I get killed for it, and lose my items permanently. I can get it if they're inside temples or whatever, but I was just PASSING BY. This is so frustrating. I have NEVER been this frustrated before when playing Minecraft, and I've played it for years. It makes me not want to play.
I just don't get it. Why are these punishments necessary? Why is it risky to swim around? Why is it risky to not find wool so you can sleep? This adds nothing but frustration for no reason and only makes the game worse. This is the most unfun experience of Minecraft I've had BY FAR.
Argha Blargha
Sounds like you ran into a number of the predicted issues (with 1.13 by the sound of it):
MobB largely forces one to stay under cover [MobB does not spawn if the player is under any light blocking block (leaves included) or below sea level.], except when the day is bright enough for them to have finished burning, until able to procure a bed...
...and then to play with one eye on the clock.
Trident weilding drowned are quite rare as evidenced by the efforts of players to find duch when wishing to secure a trident. [Which is cold comfort to an early game player who does encounter one.] Without good armor and some movemnt enchantments (ie Depth Strider) they have a strong advantage over the player unless one can get out of the water [Drowned movement advantage vanishes on land] thus making staying away from oceans – and large rivers [f3 being needed to tell river from 'pond'] – until well enough equiped to handle them.
While answers to the "WHY?" questions are speculative, there are two major themes:
☣ first that this increases the adventerousness of play (which is fine for those who want more FRPG-style adventuring in their MC; for those who don't, rather not so much)
☣ second there is MS/Mj's apparent attitude toward farms. automation, and large scale trading:
[from a post now memory-holed]
To what extent each of these (or some of the other less commonly suggested reasons) is responsible for the direction in which MC appear to be being driven can not be unchallengeably determined…
That's literally no different than before the introduction of the phantoms, some of the most common tips about early game Minecraft include finding sheep quickly to get wool. The only difference is that the hostile threat now comes from the sky and cannot be as easily ignored. Thus, some players hate it. It's the same sort of foolish tantrum that the playerbase threw when 1.9 first dropped...when some of us still spamclicked and stopped being able to do damage.
Stepping away from the specifics of the complaint for a moment, one of the major concepts that ruins video games (in my opinion) is the ability to reset things. You're going along doing your own thing and then--BAM!--something you didn't expect suddenly wrecks your face enough that you either run away or die (probably rather quickly, too). You then respawn to a point before that surprise happens, probably with all the stuff you wasted trying to salvage the situation initially, and you probably change eq to better manage what happened...and then, when you're finally ready, you creep closer and closer until you deliberately trigger the "surprise" again. Yes, yes, yes...I know it's a game and games should not only be fun but should also not feel like significant amounts of work, but there really should be some consequences for "try, try again" tactics and there just aren't any.
Specifically for Minecraft beds, the game was reaching a point where a lot of the playerbase was effectively able to treat general natural mob spawning as if it were a mob grinder (a structure carefully designed to avoid all or at least almost all risk). While Mojang did compromise and shackle phantoms to the bed so that players could completely avoid them (the same as all other hostile mobs), now you can't just completely ignore that aspect of the game because it's just so easy for you. Sucks if you find it challenging, but majority rules, right?
If you can simply sleep to prevent them, then what's the point of having them? They effectively punish the player for NOT sleeping. Of course, wool was often sought for to skip nights, but sometimes sheep are rare, and when you don't own a bed and others do, you can quickly relog to skip the night. That's what happened to me, I was exploring without a bed and relogged when my friend was sleeping, and eventually phantoms appeared and killed me. The game has gone how many years where not sleeping isn't a punishment? So why is it a punishment now? Phantoms should just be another creature you find in the End. It needs more mobs anyway. There'd be more use for them there than pointlessly punishing those who can't find wool. Having to endure or wait out the night is "punishment" enough for not tracking down any sheep. No reason to have phantoms kill you for it as well.
As I stated in my post, I was not risking anything as I was simply rowing back to spawn, on the way back. I wasn't dipping down to explore ruins or a temple or anything, I was simply rowing my boat and suddenly a drowned appeared from below and knocked me out. There was a huge group of them, one with a trident, who ended up killing me. Same with phantoms, you could boat safely, but now there's this punishment for no good reason. I was not engaging in some difficult task, not fighting a boss, not raiding a temple, I was simply boating and get killed for it. It's not fair.
EDIT: To clarify, I don't "find it challenging." It is an anti-fun feature that pointlessly ruins enjoyment, just because.
Well, I don't think anti-grinder mechanics should interfere with those who don't use grinders. Though I thought they said they don't mind grinders as long as they're not too easy to design. Personally I've never used any grinder besides cobble generators for sky block.
Argha Blargha
I'm not as into Mojang's stuff as other users here, but as a feel,I suspect that these new "challenges" were "suggested" by who wants MC to open up to a wider range of players.
Until yesterday, MC was more building/exploring oriented, It was great as you could use your imagination and, taken the right precautions, do your things in peace, if you wanted the challenge you had to go out looking for it.
This cuts out those players who are not into building or elaborating complex machines with the given tools (ilmango and friends are the top expression of that playstyle).
I guess somebody wants to get some revenue back (aka squeeze the lemon), probably a few players yelled that they wanted more challenge, so Mojang did some marketing research, what turned out probably was that people wished MC to be more "challenging"...and here we are:-)
But isn't this game called "MINE-CRAFT"??
Note that the Developers are hardly to blame, they are not investors, they don't own the Company, maybe some is a shareholder, but he surely does not dictate the guidelines 100%, who has put in the big buck does.
This is a trend I noticed across the board, people in suits in front of an Excel module, they know nothing about gaming, but they need those lines to match the figures they need in order to get benefits, bonuses etc....or just keep their job.
This is how you get rushed full-game releases, P2W, microtransactions etc.
At least in MC it's only a few mobs, put in in peaceful and they are gone...after all, a naked Steve cannot compete against dudes shooting tridents, it gets really annoying at least for me and the way I play.
As for me, i am on and off peaceful mode...which bugs me a lot.
"The only difference is that the hostile threat now … cannot be as easily ignored."
A very succinct expression of the crux of the matter: there now exists no practical way for those not interested in the MS/Mj preferred style of play to avoid its intrusions.
[I would, by the bye, consider at least a large fraction of the objections as reasoned arguments against a foolish and divisive decision….
Even should fast, simple, cheap, and inoffensive ways be found to neutralize the Mojang Orbitting Bed Bully, et al, there remains the issue of the corporation moving away from the sandbox that made the game so successful an into the coercive railroad model.]
And why is this a bad thing?
Those who did not want to be "effectively able to treat general natural mob spawning as if it were a mob grinder" have always been free to avoid builds, fencing, lighting, and other safety measures (as well as playing without enchantments, armor, and weapons if such was desired).
[Note that MobB is also easily avoided simply by slight modifications to the AFK position, what it prevents is being able to enjoy activities such as logging through the night or hunting endermen from an overworld perch. (Both activities now require easy but tedious preparation of large areas, not to mention contributing to the cobblestone boxes issue so disliked by many aestheaticians.) ]
Similarly, the drowned ability to spawn in open water essentially makes it impossible to build deep water vases (or bases incorporatin deep water) that are both safe and pretty.
Again, the procedure to render such a base safe is not hard; it is just long, tedious, ugly, and sightlines and free movement.
As to 'majority rules', I am unaware of any plebiscite on the issue (much less any that drew more than a trival response rate).
You might, of course be refering to either the Golden Rule [cynic's version], or something akin to the Soviet model [only full voting members of the Central Committee cast ballots]… in either of which cases, you may well be right.