The thing is, the way I imagine Minecraft 2, it would break the game if it was implemented in just an update;
Due to having to rewrite basically the entire game, Mojang would also have to make some kind of converter program to make old worlds compatible in the new version, as they would be changing from one save format to another. This of course is likely to cause bugs and corruption in the world.
None of the new content would be available within explored chunks, so you'd have to go far to find new stuff.
Several mechanics would be rebalanced for the vast amount of new content, which means that having old Minecraft gear might make you overpowered (or underpowered). Certain enchantments might also be removed and replaced with a different mechanic as well, making your stuff less valuable.
An idea I had in order to make sunlight less of a problem for cubic chunks was to make light a purely visual feature, not having an effect on anything. If this was put in the game, your fortress that you spent all that time building is no longer safe from mobs, so get ready to basically rebuild it to return it to its mob-free state.
Changes in redstone mechanics would render many previous machines broken or obsolete.
Increasing the system requirements would allow for a better game, but now many would need more up-to-date hardware to run the game that they already paid for.
Several of these points would mean that many people would have to use new worlds for the new versions and stay in old versions for their older worlds. If your going to force people to have two sets of worlds, you might as well have two games to make things more convenient for everybody.
I said, and people scoffed, that Win10 is, for all intents and purposes, MC2. I firmly believe you all are gonna be surprised a year or two from now. C++ can do things java can't (or at least do the same things so much better). Win10 may not do all the "old" things, but it can do new and different things better.
People, especially in this forum, tend to think the MC-world revolves around the PC edition and it's the most popular.
Nope.
jdc997 went on recounting all the problems with making a new MC2 compatible with the old MC. Why? That hasn't been a problem for Win10, has it? None of the other MC's are compatible with the PC version, but that hasn't stopped their sales, has it? Hopefully, if a MC2 were to come out, it would have so many cool new features and look so much better, "starting over" will be worth it, and "compatibility" won't be a concern.
This is not really much of an issue as long as they do not remove anything; it is even possible to write a converter for PC <-> Windows 10/PE (some people claim this is impossible because one is Java and the other is C++ but the actual data stored on disk has nothing to do with programming language); for example, in the PC version the new types of fences they added in 1.8 were each given their own block ID while in PE they are data values of the original fence block, which is the same in both versions (I have no idea why they added new blocks in the PC version; I know that from MCEdit that the game does not save any metadata for fences; it determines their visual appearance when they are rendered based on what blocks are next to them).
In fact, 1.8 automatically converts numerical item IDs into strings when you load an older world; versions up to at least 1.6.4 had a built-in MCRegion to Anvil converter (all Anvil did was split up chunks into chunk sections and add a biome array), which also made a copy of the save files (MCRegion used .mcr and Anvil uses .mca for its region files; a backup of level.dat is saved to level.dat_mcr. The game even seems to "convert" newly created worlds in these versions since a level.dat_mcr file gets created; 1.11.2 does not create one) so you could easily revert back if there were any issues (what 1.8 does is not good practice; chunks are converted as they are loaded and saved to the same files so you must make a manual backup if you want to revert back).
The main changes that I see in a new version (or update) are to extend the range of metadata and light levels; for example, if you want colored lighting you'd need at least 12 bits to store separate RGB values (it would probably be best to use 16 bits and ignore the uppermost 4 bits; the slight increase in memory would be offset by not having to manipulate half-bytes/nibbles, which are not a native data type in most languages. When stored on disk compression would reduce the impact further. likewise, it would be better to use a 16 bit value to store block IDs instead of clobbering together 8+4 bits, the latter of which again requires extra code to manipulate half-bytes). It would be trivial to convert older worlds in both cases; set the new RGB light value to (old + old * 16 + old * 256), which would appear as shades of white, and for block IDs combine the 8+4 bit values into one (LSB + MSB * 256, which is what the game already does whenever it needs to access a block ID from the in-memory arrays).
Even Cubic Chunks would not necessarily cause issues; for older worlds assume that the bottom of the world is y=0 and that there is nothing below (possibly use a setting within level.dat. Or just use y=0 as the minimum y-value for any world and make the maximum value as high as desired; there is no real need for negative coordinates). Changes to terrain generation, especially deeper worlds, would be a bigger issue (for example, my double-height terrain mod vs vanilla) but that has always been an issue in some way and is why such updates are so infrequent (it is possible to make some changes, even add new biomes, without significantly disrupting existing worlds but the solutions are either hard to program or cludgy, like when I added new biomes to a world while I was playing on it by substituting biomes with new ones after they were chosen from the original biome list and even then I had to check that biomes bordering existing chunks were not replaced).
I don't think you guys understood me. I was not thinking of MC2 as an update to MC. If they DO release a MC2, it will probably be somewhere along the lines of the current updates.
You're still shirking away from my question: what makes MC2 so great? Why would it work so well? I'm just curious.
This is not really much of an issue as long as they do not remove anything; it is even possible to write a converter for PC <-> Windows 10/PE (some people claim this is impossible because one is Java and the other is C++ but the actual data stored on disk has nothing to do with programming language); for example, in the PC version the new types of fences they added in 1.8 were each given their own block ID while in PE they are data values of the original fence block, which is the same in both versions (I have no idea why they added new blocks in the PC version; I know that from MCEdit that the game does not save any metadata for fences; it determines their visual appearance when they are rendered based on what blocks are next to them).
In fact, 1.8 automatically converts numerical item IDs into strings when you load an older world; versions up to at least 1.6.4 had a built-in MCRegion to Anvil converter (all Anvil did was split up chunks into chunk sections and add a biome array), which also made a copy of the save files (MCRegion used .mcr and Anvil uses .mca for its region files; a backup of level.dat is saved to level.dat_mcr. The game even seems to "convert" newly created worlds in these versions since a level.dat_mcr file gets created; 1.11.2 does not create one) so you could easily revert back if there were any issues (what 1.8 does is not good practice; chunks are converted as they are loaded and saved to the same files so you must make a manual backup if you want to revert back).
The main changes that I see in a new version (or update) are to extend the range of metadata and light levels; for example, if you want colored lighting you'd need at least 12 bits to store separate RGB values (it would probably be best to use 16 bits and ignore the uppermost 4 bits; the slight increase in memory would be offset by not having to manipulate half-bytes/nibbles, which are not a native data type in most languages. When stored on disk compression would reduce the impact further. likewise, it would be better to use a 16 bit value to store block IDs instead of clobbering together 8+4 bits, the latter of which again requires extra code to manipulate half-bytes). It would be trivial to convert older worlds in both cases; set the new RGB light value to (old + old * 16 + old * 256), which would appear as shades of white, and for block IDs combine the 8+4 bit values into one (LSB + MSB * 256, which is what the game already does whenever it needs to access a block ID from the in-memory arrays).
Even Cubic Chunks would not necessarily cause issues; for older worlds assume that the bottom of the world is y=0 and that there is nothing below (possibly use a setting within level.dat. Or just use y=0 as the minimum y-value for any world and make the maximum value as high as desired; there is no real need for negative coordinates). Changes to terrain generation, especially deeper worlds, would be a bigger issue (for example, my double-height terrain mod vs vanilla) but that has always been an issue in some way and is why such updates are so infrequent (it is possible to make some changes, even add new biomes, without significantly disrupting existing worlds but the solutions are either hard to program or cludgy, like when I added new biomes to a world while I was playing on it by substituting biomes with new ones after they were chosen from the original biome list and even then I had to check that biomes bordering existing chunks were not replaced).
Well, you learn something new every day. Still, that doesn't mean there won't be bugs or data corruption caused by converting.
I don't think you guys understood me. I was not thinking of MC2 as an update to MC. If they DO release a MC2, it will probably be somewhere along the lines of the current updates.
You're still shirking away from my question: what makes MC2 so great? Why would it work so well? I'm just curious.
Well, what I was trying to say is that just trying to make MC2 instead of just continuing on with updates is that it makes it easier on the part of both the developers and the players. However, other reasons for MC2 and why it would work so well (if it were made the way I imagine it) include:
It wouldn't be bound by the same restrictions as MC1
It would be modernized and optimized thanks to better code in a better engine
It would be made with modding in mind, so updates aren't constantly breaking them and threads like this wouldn't have to exist
It would provide a fresh take on a game that is growing increasingly stale for many, even with updates
It would be made with cross-platform play in mind
It would have more depth in all of its features, making it a bit less casual, but more fun to the target audience.
A lot of these just wouldn't work in MC1 without breaking how the game is or rewriting it (in which case your time might be better spent just making a new game). As I perceive it, and not even going into details of specific features, this would make a more fun game, which makes it a greater game, which means it works well. Of course, this is all a matter of opinion. I like to appeal more to the "hardcore gamer" and thus what I say reflects that, which means that what I want might be a lot more fun, but to a lot less people. Still, MC2 doesn't have to cater to the same audience as MC1.
Well, you learn something new every day. Still, that doesn't mean there won't be bugs or data corruption caused by converting.
Well, what I was trying to say is that just trying to make MC2 instead of just continuing on with updates is that it makes it easier on the part of both the developers and the players. However, other reasons for MC2 and why it would work so well (if it were made the way I imagine it) include:
It wouldn't be bound by the same restrictions as MC1
It would be modernized and optimized thanks to better code in a better engine
It would be made with modding in mind, so updates aren't constantly breaking them and threads like this wouldn't have to exist
It would provide a fresh take on a game that is growing increasingly stale for many, even with updates
It would be made with cross-platform play in mind
It would have more depth in all of its features, making it a bit less casual, but more fun to the target audience.
A lot of these just wouldn't work in MC1 without breaking how the game is or rewriting it (in which case your time might be better spent just making a new game). As I perceive it, and not even going into details of specific features, this would make a more fun game, which makes it a greater game, which means it works well. Of course, this is all a matter of opinion. I like to appeal more to the "hardcore gamer" and thus what I say reflects that, which means that what I want might be a lot more fun, but to a lot less people. Still, MC2 doesn't have to cater to the same audience as MC1.
Ah, I see what you're getting at. There's no guarantee that they'll even do that, if they do do MC2, though (excuse my pessimism)
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Most of the features are great. Minecraft is getting better in some ways and others some people may not like. I think overall updates should keep coming. What you used to backup your point is useless! I can easily go back to 1.7.10 and make a quick fun jumble of mods to play with.
It would be modernized and optimized thanks to better code in a better engine
It would be made with modding in mind, so updates aren't constantly breaking them and threads like this wouldn't have to exist
It would provide a fresh take on a game that is growing increasingly stale for many, even with updates
It would be made with cross-platform play in mind
Cross platform would actually make me start playing minecraft again. Allow console players to connect to PC servers (and maybe PE/Win 10 players). This would be a massive game changer, and would be truly amazing. Sitting on my couch on my PS4 playing mineplex would truly be remarkable. The mod changes as well, but not quite as insane. Just imagine it!
This is the best reason for MC2. Modding benefits are amazing. But this... Changes the whole ballgame. Think of all the players who have a ps3, but their friends have an xbox one (or any combination). It definitely would makes sales numbers explode, and would honestly finally make console players feel like they aren't left out. If they added this, mineplex and hypixel would easily be getting online numbers in the 100k range, and all those small servers would grow to be massive. Minecraft may seem to have a lot of players online on the PC version, but think about it. The PC version has sold ~20 million copies. The game, across all platforms has sold ~100 million. Thats ~80 million people getting the right to play on servers.
This example demonstrates cross play in rocket-league:
Won't work.
Win10 & PE can play together because they're the exact same game with the same features, world sizes, etc. And they're kept "in sync" so they can continue to play together.
* In order for there to be true "cross-platform", MC (like Rocket League) would have to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator (Xbox One/ps4). In other words, the PC version (and all those servers) would have to change to be just like the One/ps4 version (losing features and "infinite" worlds). That might make all the console people happy, but it would sure upset the PC crowd!!!!
* You wouldn't like it. A keyboard/mouse player will whip the tar out of a controller-only player every time. It's best if consoles play only with other consoles.
* MC would have to be rewritten from the get-go to allow Xbox and PS players to play together. For years MS has requested that PS players be allowed to join Live- Sony has steadfastly refused the offer. Nor has it allowed Xbox players to join PSN. So, like Rocket League, it has to be done completely in-game, by-passing Live and PSN. Since MS owns MC, they would never allow this.
* Bottom Line: the "wish" that PC and/or Win10/PE players could play with console players has been suggested many times before. Can't happen, and you wouldn't like it if (by magic) it did happen.
Now, back on topic, I agree with the OP. It's time to let the java version go and move on to bigger, better things.
Won't work.
Win10 & PE can play together because they're the exact same game with the same features, world sizes, etc. And they're kept "in sync" so they can continue to play together.
* In order for there to be true "cross-platform", MC (like Rocket League) would have to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator (Xbox One/ps4). In other words, the PC version (and all those servers) would have to change to be just like the One/ps4 version (losing features and "infinite" worlds). That might make all the console people happy, but it would sure upset the PC crowd!!!!
* You wouldn't like it. A keyboard/mouse player will whip the tar out of a controller-only player every time. It's best if consoles play only with other consoles.
* MC would have to be rewritten from the get-go to allow Xbox and PS players to play together. For years MS has requested that PS players be allowed to join Live- Sony has steadfastly refused the offer. Nor has it allowed Xbox players to join PSN. So, like Rocket League, it has to be done completely in-game, by-passing Live and PSN. Since MS owns MC, they would never allow this.
* Bottom Line: the "wish" that PC and/or Win10/PE players could play with console players has been suggested many times before. Can't happen, and you wouldn't like it if (by magic) it did happen.
Now, back on topic, I agree with the OP. It's time to let the java version go and move on to bigger, better things.
1. Update the console versions a lot, almost up to the same level as PC (the consoles can handle infinite worlds, the iphone 4s can, its just 4J choosing not to add them to console).
2. Minecraft isn't a FPS game. This point was brought up with CS:GO, a competitive FPS game. In most cases, a controller wouldn't be a massive difference in MC.
3. Just make it so Xbox and PS players have a direct-connect box to punch in IPs and join PC servers. That way, PSN talks with the PC servers, and XB Live talks with the PC servers, and the consoles don't get in the way.
I still have to use a version of Tekkit from 1.2.5 to play with some friends. Classic Tekkit, though, so nothing to complain. But I've been saying this since 1.9's release - the community is obviously divided from every update. Mojang's move on "quicker updates" was horrible. 1.10 and 1.11 was abysmal. 1.9 split the community. 1.8 broke mods. Mojang just doesn't want to let go of Minecraft.
1. Update the console versions a lot, almost up to the same level as PC (the consoles can handle infinite worlds, the iphone 4s can, its just 4J choosing not to add them to console).
The consoles are certainly capable of infinite worlds, and I agree that they should be added; however, I don't think 4J is just "choosing" not to add them:
I don't really see why game size would be a major problem on next-gen consoles, I know for a fact every PS4 ships with a 500 GB hard drive, not sure about Xbox One (500 GB also?). I do see why this would be a problem on 4 GB PS3s and Xbox 360s, but I son't see this being a next-gen problem.
The version split is awful in Minecraft, that's for sure. I also do agree that these last few updates have been... lacking. Honestly, as much as I'd like to see this game keep updating, there are a whoooole lot of reasons why that would just make things worse. I won't vote in the poll cause IDK what I want more, but I say, if the poll gets enough votes one way or the other... Mojang/Microsoft, just respect what it says. Please.
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I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
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The reason that the updates are lacking is because people are pressuring them to make them quicker, if it takes too long, they start complaining. So the devs at Mojang are doing their best to make quicker updates, but then they get backlash from the people who want more features in each update. So imo its the community's fault
I don't really see why game size would be a major problem on next-gen consoles, I know for a fact every PS4 ships with a 500 GB hard drive, not sure about Xbox One (500 GB also?). I do see why this would be a problem on 4 GB PS3s and Xbox 360s, but I son't see this being a next-gen problem.
I recall reading something about the console editions keeping the entire world loaded in memory at all times, which would certainly be a major issue because chunks take up far more space in memory than on disk (for a simple calculation, I have a 383 MB world with 78254 chunks (both for the Overworld only), so each chunk is 5132 bytes on disk (a freshly generated world will take up less space; lighting up caves increases save size due to all the light data, which does not compress as efficiently when it is not mostly 0; conversely, Amplified worlds will take up more because there are more blocks). However, a single chunk section (16x16x16 blocks) has at least 4096 bytes of block IDs (6144 if there are IDs above 255, currently only with mods), 2048 bytes of block metadata, 2048 bytes of block light, 2048 blocks of skylight, for a total of at least 10240 bytes of data - and the world averages 5-6 sections deep, and there is additional data for entities, biomes (256 bytes), a heightmap (1024 bytes; oddly enough they used 32 bit ints instead of bytes), and more, so easily 50-60 KB of uncompressed data per chunk and as much as 4 GB or more for the entire world, which is actually smaller than the largest console worlds, at 102400 chunks for 5120x5120 blocks).
This also partially explains why there are entity limits for the entire world (you can't even breed more animals/make more minecarts/etc), although entities do not actually need that much memory (a few dozen bytes or so per additional entity; even if their code is 10s of KB, as it is for the more complex ones, only the non static fields of an object are duplicated, at least that is the case in Java). They can certainly cause lag though, even if inactive (the game has to go though the entire list when calculating mob caps and such).
However, this is not really that big of an issue; they can just add a world border (if not already), just as you can do in the PC edition to limit the world size, and any client that connects to the world will know that the player can't go past it. At the least, the client can't make the game load any new chunks past that point (in versions prior to 1.7 you'd literally fall through the world if you walked past 30 million blocks, albeit not because the game stopped generating chunks but because it returned air for any blocks past that point, except when generating the basic terrain and rendering).
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Updates do not kill mods. I was upset when mojang changed the way implementing new things to the game was done with the 1.8 update because I was without some of my favorite mods for the longest time. But eventually most of them got updated or remade or ported. And now there are so many new mods. The new system allows mod authors even better organization. This makes the modding even easier. I like some of the new mods way better than my old favorites. Most mod authors that haven't updated their mods past 1.7.10 just didn't want to continue with their project, or already didn't want to continue modding in general anyways.
Also minecraft may appear to be complete because it now has a complete enderdragon fight and an over-world that can be explored for a really long time. But the end and nether are still missing the explorability that the overworld has. And even when those dimensions are as explorable as the overworld, that doesn't mean it's necessary to stop updating. Minecraft is supposed to be the game with endless possibilities, so it's inherently a forever incomplete game. Each update adds things to minecraft that I never would have thought of adding. Each update gives mapmakers something to implement into unique maps. New blocks, items, and commands in MC updates allow for fun and creative minigames.
Don't get me wrong, I wish all mods existed on the same version just as much as you do. I miss the miner's deluxe mod for MC 1.6.4. But if I end up missing that mod enough I'll just make a 1.10 or 1.11 version of it for myself. There are arguments as to why MC shouldn't be updated anymore, but those reasons aren't as good or as plentiful as to why it should continue to be updated.
Updates do not kill mods. I was upset when mojang changed the way implementing new things to the game was done with the 1.8 update because I was without some of my favorite mods for the longest time. But eventually most of them got updated or remade or ported. And now there are so many new mods. The new system allows mod authors even better organization. This makes the modding even easier. I like some of the new mods way better than my old favorites. Most mod authors that haven't updated their mods past 1.7.10 just didn't want to continue with their project, or already didn't want to continue modding in general anyways.
Also minecraft may appear to be complete because it now has a complete enderdragon fight and an over-world that can be explored for a really long time. But the end and nether are still missing the explorability that the overworld has. And even when those dimensions are as explorable as the overworld, that doesn't mean it's necessary to stop updating. Minecraft is supposed to be the game with endless possibilities, so it's inherently a forever incomplete game. Each update adds things to minecraft that I never would have thought of adding. Each update gives mapmakers something to implement into unique maps. New blocks, items, and commands in MC updates allow for fun and creative minigames.
Don't get me wrong, I wish all mods existed on the same version just as much as you do. I miss the miner's deluxe mod for MC 1.6.4. But if I end up missing that mod enough I'll just make a 1.10 or 1.11 version of it for myself. There are arguments as to why MC shouldn't be updated anymore, but those reasons aren't as good or as plentiful as to why it should continue to be updated.
Thing is though, all the updates that have happened recently, especially 1.10 have been found lacking by the community in general as far as new content. The whole point of stopping the updates is that mods add WAY more new content than the updates we have been getting recently, and so having more mods on the same version adds more content than having new versions of vanilla. If the updates were still adding major new features I would totally agree with you, but I'm just pointing out facts. That said, I am still holding out hope for the developers to get their act together and give us an actually-cool new update, as that would kill this thread more effectively than any argument.
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I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
Thing is though, all the updates that have happened recently, especially 1.10 have been found lacking by the community in general as far as new content. The whole point of stopping the updates is that mods add WAY more new content than the updates we have been getting recently, and so having more mods on the same version adds more content than having new versions of vanilla. If the updates were still adding major new features I would totally agree with you, but I'm just pointing out facts. That said, I am still holding out hope for the developers to get their act together and give us an actually-cool new update, as that would kill this thread more effectively than any argument.
I see your point. They need to stop shoveling out updates. The last couple updates have had so little content. I wish Mojang would take suggestions and hold votes on content. That would improve MineCraft so much.
I see your point. They need to stop shoveling out updates. The last couple updates have had so little content. I wish Mojang would take suggestions and hold votes on content. That would improve MineCraft so much.
Exactly. Redstone, for example, has many shortcomings despite being an amazing system. They need to work on that. If nothing else, Story Mode showed what redstone could be if we had the right components to work with. (Mostly referring to episode 7's PAMA, imagine having an emitter block and a chipset item that could interface and let redstone give instructions to mob AI...)
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I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
This has been done on purpose.
Minecraft 1.7, 1.8 and 1.9 have all been massive updates, with a lot of time spent in development and a lot of things changed. This also meant that the game only updated once a year, sometimes even fewer. To make up for that, Minecraft 1.10 to 1.13 will all be smaller updates, with a bit less content, and Minecraft 1.14 will be an old fashioned giant overhaul update.
I hope the community doesn't shrink too much by then...
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I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
We posted at the same time. Another "compatibility" post. See my post, #65.
I don't think you guys understood me
I don't think you guys understood me. I was not thinking of MC2 as an update to MC. If they DO release a MC2, it will probably be somewhere along the lines of the current updates.
You're still shirking away from my question: what makes MC2 so great? Why would it work so well? I'm just curious.
Well, you learn something new every day. Still, that doesn't mean there won't be bugs or data corruption caused by converting.
Well, what I was trying to say is that just trying to make MC2 instead of just continuing on with updates is that it makes it easier on the part of both the developers and the players. However, other reasons for MC2 and why it would work so well (if it were made the way I imagine it) include:
A lot of these just wouldn't work in MC1 without breaking how the game is or rewriting it (in which case your time might be better spent just making a new game). As I perceive it, and not even going into details of specific features, this would make a more fun game, which makes it a greater game, which means it works well. Of course, this is all a matter of opinion. I like to appeal more to the "hardcore gamer" and thus what I say reflects that, which means that what I want might be a lot more fun, but to a lot less people. Still, MC2 doesn't have to cater to the same audience as MC1.
Want to see my suggestions? Here they are!
I am also known as GameWyrm or GameWyrm97. You can also find me at snapshotmc.com
Ah, I see what you're getting at. There's no guarantee that they'll even do that, if they do do MC2, though (excuse my pessimism)
Most of the features are great. Minecraft is getting better in some ways and others some people may not like. I think overall updates should keep coming. What you used to backup your point is useless! I can easily go back to 1.7.10 and make a quick fun jumble of mods to play with.
Must do social experiment.
GENERATION 37: The first time you see this, copy it into your signature on any forum and add 1 to the generation. This is a Social experiment.
Don't take my Minecraft name seriously. It is a joke that has entertained lots of people and hopefully you too.
Cross platform would actually make me start playing minecraft again. Allow console players to connect to PC servers (and maybe PE/Win 10 players). This would be a massive game changer, and would be truly amazing. Sitting on my couch on my PS4 playing mineplex would truly be remarkable. The mod changes as well, but not quite as insane. Just imagine it!
This is the best reason for MC2. Modding benefits are amazing. But this... Changes the whole ballgame. Think of all the players who have a ps3, but their friends have an xbox one (or any combination). It definitely would makes sales numbers explode, and would honestly finally make console players feel like they aren't left out. If they added this, mineplex and hypixel would easily be getting online numbers in the 100k range, and all those small servers would grow to be massive. Minecraft may seem to have a lot of players online on the PC version, but think about it. The PC version has sold ~20 million copies. The game, across all platforms has sold ~100 million. Thats ~80 million people getting the right to play on servers.
This example demonstrates cross play in rocket-league:
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5 Years on Minecraftforum. Over 9 on minecraft itself. Mod developer for 4 years.
Win10 & PE can play together because they're the exact same game with the same features, world sizes, etc. And they're kept "in sync" so they can continue to play together.
* In order for there to be true "cross-platform", MC (like Rocket League) would have to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator (Xbox One/ps4). In other words, the PC version (and all those servers) would have to change to be just like the One/ps4 version (losing features and "infinite" worlds). That might make all the console people happy, but it would sure upset the PC crowd!!!!
* You wouldn't like it. A keyboard/mouse player will whip the tar out of a controller-only player every time. It's best if consoles play only with other consoles.
* MC would have to be rewritten from the get-go to allow Xbox and PS players to play together. For years MS has requested that PS players be allowed to join Live- Sony has steadfastly refused the offer. Nor has it allowed Xbox players to join PSN. So, like Rocket League, it has to be done completely in-game, by-passing Live and PSN. Since MS owns MC, they would never allow this.
* Bottom Line: the "wish" that PC and/or Win10/PE players could play with console players has been suggested many times before. Can't happen, and you wouldn't like it if (by magic) it did happen.
Now, back on topic, I agree with the OP. It's time to let the java version go and move on to bigger, better things.
Hmm...
1. Update the console versions a lot, almost up to the same level as PC (the consoles can handle infinite worlds, the iphone 4s can, its just 4J choosing not to add them to console).
2. Minecraft isn't a FPS game. This point was brought up with CS:GO, a competitive FPS game. In most cases, a controller wouldn't be a massive difference in MC.
3. Just make it so Xbox and PS players have a direct-connect box to punch in IPs and join PC servers. That way, PSN talks with the PC servers, and XB Live talks with the PC servers, and the consoles don't get in the way.
Watch this:
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5 Years on Minecraftforum. Over 9 on minecraft itself. Mod developer for 4 years.
I still have to use a version of Tekkit from 1.2.5 to play with some friends. Classic Tekkit, though, so nothing to complain. But I've been saying this since 1.9's release - the community is obviously divided from every update. Mojang's move on "quicker updates" was horrible. 1.10 and 1.11 was abysmal. 1.9 split the community. 1.8 broke mods. Mojang just doesn't want to let go of Minecraft.
Been playing Minecraft for too long.
The consoles are certainly capable of infinite worlds, and I agree that they should be added; however, I don't think 4J is just "choosing" not to add them:
I don't really see why game size would be a major problem on next-gen consoles, I know for a fact every PS4 ships with a 500 GB hard drive, not sure about Xbox One (500 GB also?). I do see why this would be a problem on 4 GB PS3s and Xbox 360s, but I son't see this being a next-gen problem.
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5 Years on Minecraftforum. Over 9 on minecraft itself. Mod developer for 4 years.
The version split is awful in Minecraft, that's for sure. I also do agree that these last few updates have been... lacking. Honestly, as much as I'd like to see this game keep updating, there are a whoooole lot of reasons why that would just make things worse. I won't vote in the poll cause IDK what I want more, but I say, if the poll gets enough votes one way or the other... Mojang/Microsoft, just respect what it says. Please.
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
The reason that the updates are lacking is because people are pressuring them to make them quicker, if it takes too long, they start complaining. So the devs at Mojang are doing their best to make quicker updates, but then they get backlash from the people who want more features in each update. So imo its the community's fault
I recall reading something about the console editions keeping the entire world loaded in memory at all times, which would certainly be a major issue because chunks take up far more space in memory than on disk (for a simple calculation, I have a 383 MB world with 78254 chunks (both for the Overworld only), so each chunk is 5132 bytes on disk (a freshly generated world will take up less space; lighting up caves increases save size due to all the light data, which does not compress as efficiently when it is not mostly 0; conversely, Amplified worlds will take up more because there are more blocks). However, a single chunk section (16x16x16 blocks) has at least 4096 bytes of block IDs (6144 if there are IDs above 255, currently only with mods), 2048 bytes of block metadata, 2048 bytes of block light, 2048 blocks of skylight, for a total of at least 10240 bytes of data - and the world averages 5-6 sections deep, and there is additional data for entities, biomes (256 bytes), a heightmap (1024 bytes; oddly enough they used 32 bit ints instead of bytes), and more, so easily 50-60 KB of uncompressed data per chunk and as much as 4 GB or more for the entire world, which is actually smaller than the largest console worlds, at 102400 chunks for 5120x5120 blocks).
This also partially explains why there are entity limits for the entire world (you can't even breed more animals/make more minecarts/etc), although entities do not actually need that much memory (a few dozen bytes or so per additional entity; even if their code is 10s of KB, as it is for the more complex ones, only the non static fields of an object are duplicated, at least that is the case in Java). They can certainly cause lag though, even if inactive (the game has to go though the entire list when calculating mob caps and such).
However, this is not really that big of an issue; they can just add a world border (if not already), just as you can do in the PC edition to limit the world size, and any client that connects to the world will know that the player can't go past it. At the least, the client can't make the game load any new chunks past that point (in versions prior to 1.7 you'd literally fall through the world if you walked past 30 million blocks, albeit not because the game stopped generating chunks but because it returned air for any blocks past that point, except when generating the basic terrain and rendering).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Updates do not kill mods. I was upset when mojang changed the way implementing new things to the game was done with the 1.8 update because I was without some of my favorite mods for the longest time. But eventually most of them got updated or remade or ported. And now there are so many new mods. The new system allows mod authors even better organization. This makes the modding even easier. I like some of the new mods way better than my old favorites. Most mod authors that haven't updated their mods past 1.7.10 just didn't want to continue with their project, or already didn't want to continue modding in general anyways.
Also minecraft may appear to be complete because it now has a complete enderdragon fight and an over-world that can be explored for a really long time. But the end and nether are still missing the explorability that the overworld has. And even when those dimensions are as explorable as the overworld, that doesn't mean it's necessary to stop updating. Minecraft is supposed to be the game with endless possibilities, so it's inherently a forever incomplete game. Each update adds things to minecraft that I never would have thought of adding. Each update gives mapmakers something to implement into unique maps. New blocks, items, and commands in MC updates allow for fun and creative minigames.
Don't get me wrong, I wish all mods existed on the same version just as much as you do. I miss the miner's deluxe mod for MC 1.6.4. But if I end up missing that mod enough I'll just make a 1.10 or 1.11 version of it for myself. There are arguments as to why MC shouldn't be updated anymore, but those reasons aren't as good or as plentiful as to why it should continue to be updated.
Thing is though, all the updates that have happened recently, especially 1.10 have been found lacking by the community in general as far as new content. The whole point of stopping the updates is that mods add WAY more new content than the updates we have been getting recently, and so having more mods on the same version adds more content than having new versions of vanilla. If the updates were still adding major new features I would totally agree with you, but I'm just pointing out facts. That said, I am still holding out hope for the developers to get their act together and give us an actually-cool new update, as that would kill this thread more effectively than any argument.
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
I see your point. They need to stop shoveling out updates. The last couple updates have had so little content. I wish Mojang would take suggestions and hold votes on content. That would improve MineCraft so much.
Exactly. Redstone, for example, has many shortcomings despite being an amazing system. They need to work on that. If nothing else, Story Mode showed what redstone could be if we had the right components to work with. (Mostly referring to episode 7's PAMA, imagine having an emitter block and a chipset item that could interface and let redstone give instructions to mob AI...)
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
I hope the community doesn't shrink too much by then...
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.