The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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penguinturtle13
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Okay I do agree with you on the fact that Minecraft isn't a pvp game, it isn't, but it also pvp isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sure it is uncreative for the people playing it and it is just hack and slash at the moment. I also agree with you on the people making it and it is insanely good, I do enjoy a nice detailed map. You repeatedly say or mean I guess, but Minecraft is a sandbox game and yes that means building is the main core of the game. But that also doesn't mean pvp is a horrible thing and should be shunned, pvp can be very fun and interesting. I used to play a lot of pvp and did find it enjoyable and once in a while ill hop onto Hypixel or some other minigame server to play a type of pvp game. I get what your saying about how if you want to play a pvp game then go play something else besides Minecraft. Your right on the fact that Minecraft is not FNAF or GTA or whatever other game, and should be itself not try to imitate or copy things from different titles. 1.9 is trying to improve on pvp because it is a large portion of the community, and it did need to be updated from just hack and slash, but its also not just pvp tweaks in 1.9, there have been a lot of little updates meant to make the game better. 1 example is the 3 new types of command blocks, they will immensely help map makers, another example is the updated skeleton AI, now they move around and are actually somewhat of a challenge to kill if your decked out in armor and have really good gear. There is so many good things to come in 1.9, I personally think that Minecraft isn't dying but is instead evolving and growing into a better game and will continue to do so into the future.
It sounds like you think Minecraft is only about building and creativity - so I suppose that, despite never having done PvP myself, what I do is also detrimental (if I played on a server, which I also never have), but the true origin of the game was a cave exploration game, hence the first name of "Cave Game"; everything else just came afterwards. Of course, PvP is notably absent from the official description of the game:
Minecraft is a game about breaking and placing blocks. At first, people built structures to protect against nocturnal monsters, but as the game grew players worked together to create wonderful, imaginative things.
It can also be about adventuring with friends or watching the sun rise over a blocky ocean. It’s pretty. Brave players battle terrible things in The Nether, which is more scary than pretty. You can also visit a land of mushrooms if it sounds more like your cup of tea.
Never mind 1.9 - I've never even played on 1.7 yet and probably never will, at least not vanilla (though modding the underground to replicate 1.6.4 and earlier versions is hardly non-vanilla in my view).
Minecraft is merely a Creative game with some PvP elements. I see it largely as PvE and player Co-op. Minecraft is quite possibly the best co-op multiplayer game ever created. There's just a much better feeling when you all work together to accomplish something.
The only times I really PvP are on some special servers which actually add a sort of skill element to it, along with abilities that don't make it so bland. Also, sometimes its nice just to mess with friends while they're AFK.
Since according to you pvp isn't what Minecraft is about, I guess then mods like The Twightlight Forest shouldn't exist, since Minecraft isn't about discovering dungeons and fighting bosses to gain rare weapons and armor. Notice, Minecraft is just going through stages. It's like a kid growing up. First, you have the "Alpha" stage where Baby Minecraft comes into the world, and it's players are just learning to the ropes of the game and getting used to it, since at that time there wasn't a super ton of creativity options.
Then comes beta. Minecraft is now no longer a toddler/baby, but now a kid. The players start learning about redstone and what can be done with it, and as more blocks get added, builds become better and better, and redstone contraptions more and more impressive and advanced. Eventually, people start to get a little bored of Minecraft as it is, do they turn to mods. This is like a kid getting bored of life and wanting to go on an adventure(NOT a SammyClassicSonicFan one),like sail the seven seas with their pirate crew, or take on Darth Vadar in Star Wars, or maybe be the President of the United States. After lots of other small growths to the brain and body, we have Minecraft where it is now. People PvPing left and right, and incredible command block machines being created.
Pvp is not ruining Minecraft, in fact, I think it is helping it. Pvp is just a another mode of Minecraft. Is it an official mode? No, but adventure maps are not official, and do they ruin minecraft? Factions has also brought along amazing advancements in cannons. I bet that if it wasn't for factions people would never build new types of cannons. When you first saw the normal ad erase TNT Cannon, did you think that eventually, someone would make a type of cannon that can tunnel 300 blocks through solid stone? Oh, and since you seem to be one of those "12 year olds ruin Minecraft" types, they like PvP servers. They go on PvP servers. They only go on Pvp servers. See what in getting at? More PvP servers = Less 12 year olds on other servers like survival servers or creative servers, according to you the main purpose of Minecraft.
On a personal note I do not pvp. I've tried it and it became stale. There is nothing entertaining about watching animated characters
fall down. Not to me anyways.
Off course not, and that's pretty much the reason why you need to tell the rest of the world that they're "having fun wrong", right?
Let people PVP if that's what they want, the game does NOT force you to build - it's a creative sandbox game, and if people are actually having fun wacking swords at each other, what's hurting you?
For me, with a lag of 4 seconds or more, pvp is sort of.... You know.... A literal pause in the gameplay and then the death message. I watch a few factions youtubers and I think pvp is a big part of the game. Minecraft wouldn't be as big as it is now if it was entirely creative mode to build. No way
"Ruin" is quite a strong word your using there. I can agree that PvP isn't my cup of tea as well. But Minecraft is a sandbox time, you are supposed to do anything in it. Though I can also agree that the Devs would have had every reason to make some changes to PvP, because with how you explained it, there wasn't much skill to go around. Though, there was still some "form" of skill when PvPing. Then again, whatever it was, it required hardly any effort, and mostly required a good computer so that you wouldn't lag and that you would have an easier time pressing keys and moving around.
The idea of some people saying that "Minecraft is dying" is just the opinion of some people. If a large majority of people, that disagrees with the change in PvP, say that Minecraft is dying. Then that has to be the most pettiest and ridiculous excuse to say that "Minecraft is dying". It's still the best played game, and will be for more years to come. Minecraft isn't just about fighting, it's about using your creativity and ability to it's fullest. So long as Mojang (and Microsoft under some circumstances) continue to update Minecraft with the right additions and changes, with good reasonings to add, it will continue to flourish.
On another note, I disagree with you saying "PvP does not belong in Minecraft", I'll say it once and I'll say it again, it's a sandbox game, you can do whatever you like. Theres no shame in it, and there is no reason why it should be removed, no matter how much you hate it, no matter how much you protest. All I can say is, ignore it and move on.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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Whoa. I thought Minecraft was a Sandbox game. Where you play the way you want, however you want. You want to build? Make what you like. You want to explore? Go where your heart desires. Want to challenge other players? You're free to do so. It's not a game that's constrained to either building or combat. You can do both if you want.
Come to think of it, Minecraft gives you the biggest virtual sandbox out there... hmm...
v class="quote-body">PVP does not focus on the original scheme of the game. The original scheme was to be creative. There is very little
creative thinking when you are busy hacking and slashing.
The original purpose of the game isn't just "be creative". If that was the case, survival wouldn't exist. Mobs wouldn't exist. Adventure maps wouldn't exist. Nothing other than creative mode would exist. The point of the game is you can play however you want.
To further my point, in 1.9 the cooldown system was introduced. Many thought it would end pvp but instead others chose
to evolve and be creative even if only to get an edge in battle. This means that the devs saw what pvp was and how stale
it gets doing nothing but spamming just to see the animation of a character fall down with an accompanying text that
so and so killed whoever basically.
Fair enough.
In response, devs chose to try and force a bit of creativity in. Efforts that could have been spent elsewhere.
Keep this in mind; the combat changes don't only apply to PVP. They also apply to PVE. Both of which required huge amounts of tweaking and changing.
You look at all these really cool builds that are
produced to host pvp sessions. The creations are excellent. Then you get a bunch of people together, not to enjoy the build,
not to gain inspiration, just to beat each other.
Yeah. So what? If people would rather test their skills against other people rather than build stuff, which not everyone is good at, why is that something to complain about?
How many build contests occur anymore? How many redstone contests? Even though I was introduced to minecraft on console
I still feel minecraft should have stayed on pc. Every mega build I had seen was on pc. Every enormous redstone project, pc.
Now those inspirations of genuine creativity are dying due to all the attention focused on pvp.
Er. No. Have you even looked at any of the amazing redstone creations that have been literally flooding the community for months now? One Command Creations. Vanilla Bosses. RPG elements. Branching dialogue for adventure maps. Custom crafting. Magical items. The list goes on and on and on. Then take a look at the Creative Forums. Threads with hundreds of thousands of views, megabuilds with millions of blocks, giant cities from every era imaginable...just take a look at some of the stuff that's been build recently and tell me nobody does creative stuff anymore.
New players don't want to waste their time learning to build or how redstone works. They want hack and slash. This isn't Gears
of War or GTA. Minecraft was created to be creative, to be competitive and to learn a thing or two. Now all I see is pvp this
and pvp that. FNAF even brought some creativeness in as any popular game does but after a few weeks it became FNAF pvp
arena and FNAF hunger games.
So what is your suggestion? Everyone should be required to make amazing redstone creations? Everyone should become a fantastic builder? The reason Minecraft's community is so diverse is because everyone has different skills. Ilgoth is great at building. SkylinerW is great at redstone. Qmagnet is great at adventure maps. A lot of people are great at PVP. And then we all have things we suck at.
Some people say that minecraft is dying, even in the long shot that it actually were, ever wonder why? And how many times
have you spent days or weeks building something and felt the satisfaction of completion? Did it feel like minecraft was dying
then? Or did you just not win a few rounds of pvp? Never learning to build nor enjoy the game, just swing and jump.
I've spent the last few months building a massive medieval city. IF you want proof, I've got a whole thread documenting it. I also participate in PVP games on Mineplex.
I get the same amount of satisfaction from both those activities.
Don't ever try to suggest that the way you feel after doing something is the way everyone feels. Chances are you're wrong.
I tell you. For me, you come on my server and take a swing. You'll find yourself blocked and banned.Pvp does not belong in minecraft. It belongs in games built to cater to that Why? Why should PVP only exist in PVP games? Plenty of singleplayer games have PVP multiplayer. and if that is what you find enjoyable then go enjoy it on those games.
Don't ruin minecraft for those who just want to play and build and be creative. Oh COME ON. Some guy I don't even know, on a server I've never even heard of, is ruining my fun building stuff? How does this even make sense? Don't waste the devs time, force them to
try and make minecraft into something its not. How did people force the devs to do anything? We didn't even know what was coming up in 1.9 until a year after 1.8's release. It's entirely the dev's decision what they add in updates, and they saw that the combat system was crap and needed work.
That is why pvp is and will continue to ruin minecraft. Don't believe me? Just look at 1.9. Over half of it is based around pvp.
Responses in bold. As a "creative thinker", PVP is totally fine and is not going to "ruin minecraft". Some guy beating up another guy on a server I've never seen isn't going to affect me at all, much less make me stop having fun.
further my point, in 1.9 the cooldown system was introduced. Many thought it would end pvp but instead others chose
to evolve and be creative even if only to get an edge in battle. This means that the devs saw what pvp was and how stale
it gets doing nothing but spamming just to see the animation of a character fall down with an accompanying text that
so and so killed whoever basically.
In response, devs chose to try and force a bit of creativity in. Efforts that could have been spent elsewhere.
On a personal note I do not pvp. I've tried it and it became stale. There is nothing entertaining about watching animated characters
fall down. Not to me anyways. I was pretty good at it but it just felt flavorless. You look at all these really cool builds that are
produced to host pvp sessions. The creations are excellent. Then you get a bunch of people together, not to enjoy the build,
not to gain inspiration, just to beat each other.
First of all, I'd like to point out it is not a cooldown bar. A cooldown bar would imply you can't attack at all until it is filled. You still CAN, and although being infinitely weaker, it causes knockback.
Second of all, 1.9 was made exactly for that reason: making people think creatively and strategically. Without spam clicking, and with these new features, PVP has become more diverse and exciting. PVP is undoubtedly a large part of the community, so efforts fixing it were not misplaced. Except maybe for a small amount of players. People have been asking for PVP to improve for literally years, and this is how you respond to a good fix?
You do not PVP and yet you are bashing it. Have you even tried PVP on 1.9? Have you tried a PVP server that is actually good? Because they are out there. Actually, in most strategic PVP servers such as MCinfected the builds are notoriously good so people specifically use the terrain and positioning to inspire strategies.
Your problem isn't about PvP in general, it's that you have yet to try a good PVP server.
Never mind 1.9 - I've never even played on 1.7 yet and probably never will, at least not vanilla (though modding the underground to replicate 1.6.4 and earlier versions is hardly non-vanilla in my view).
So you downtalk 1.7 without playing it? That's sad. It is actually better than what a couple of people who also haven't tried it put it out to be.
In truth, 1.7 has really enhanced exploration. I do miss the oceans a lot but overall it was an improvement.
The generation has fixed many problems and adds to the adventiuring experience. The cave generation isn't worse. It's just different. New doesn't always mean worse.
Since according to you pvp isn't what Minecraft is about, I guess then mods like The Twightlight Forest shouldn't exist, since Minecraft isn't about discovering dungeons and fighting bosses to gain rare weapons and armor. Notice, Minecraft is just going through stages. It's like a kid growing up. First, you have the "Alpha" stage where Baby Minecraft comes into the world, and it's players are just learning to the ropes of the game and getting used to it, since at that time there wasn't a super ton of creativity options.
Then comes beta. Minecraft is now no longer a toddler/baby, but now a kid. The players start learning about redstone and what can be done with it, and as more blocks get added, builds become better and better, and redstone contraptions more and more impressive and advanced. Eventually, people start to get a little bored of Minecraft as it is, do they turn to mods. This is like a kid getting bored of life and wanting to go on an adventure(NOT a SammyClassicSonicFan one),like sail the seven seas with their pirate crew, or take on Darth Vadar in Star Wars, or maybe be the President of the United States. After lots of other small growths to the brain and body, we have Minecraft where it is now. People PvPing left and right, and incredible command block machines being created.
Pvp is not ruining Minecraft, in fact, I think it is helping it. Pvp is just a another mode of Minecraft. Is it an official mode? No, but adventure maps are not official, and do they ruin minecraft? Factions has also brought along amazing advancements in cannons. I bet that if it wasn't for factions people would never build new types of cannons. When you first saw the normal ad erase TNT Cannon, did you think that eventually, someone would make a type of cannon that can tunnel 300 blocks through solid stone? Oh, and since you seem to be one of those "12 year olds ruin Minecraft" types, they like PvP servers. They go on PvP servers. They only go on Pvp servers. See what in getting at? More PvP servers = Less 12 year olds on other servers like survival servers or creative servers, according to you the main purpose of Minecraft.
Off course not, and that's pretty much the reason why you need to tell the rest of the world that they're "having fun wrong", right?
Let people PVP if that's what they want, the game does NOT force you to build - it's a creative sandbox game, and if people are actually having fun wacking swords at each other, what's hurting you?
^
If you're still not going to give PVP a chance, listen to this comment: it's not even effecting you. The people who enjoy it enjoy it and the people who don't don't have to. PVP has done nothing bad to MC.
Hack and slash is simple and fitting for Minecraft. The new 1.9 changes to PvP are mod material and are completely unnecessary. Minecraft's PvP system is unique and only works because of the game engine; how would we remove PvP, would you say? It would also change Player vs Mob as well.
Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nopity nopity nope. The game can still play hack slash but strategic thinking has improved its structure for people who are willing to use their minds/wits and strategize. The devs want PVP and PVE to work similarly, and both aspects of the game needed tweaking. In 1.9, there is finally real danger even after diamond, so it is not some mindless automated poop.
There are a few comments here that do not pertain to my statement that are basically null.
Don't call the opinions of other people null. Ever.
The fact that you may go caving is not having any major impact on the game.
Caving is still part of the game. The game is a free, open, world. So anything you do may impact you in different ways than other people.
The fact that you have mods that add extra dungeons or mobs or whatever is not having any major impact on the game.
Uh, heal yeah they do! Modded survival is just so much different. Most people don't play singular mods. With that being said everything about combat, exploration, progression, etc. is completely altered for most people playing mods. It's a completely different MC experience.
Entertainment is entertainment no matter where you seek it. There is no wrong way to do that, however, when the creators
of the game have to step aside just to try and fix something that isn't otherwise wrong with the game, just to try and push
Simply because they saw a problem with how the game was being played. Those efforts could have gone towards anything
else. Blocks, ores, mobs etc. But no. They had to fix what was wrong and what was wrong was simply that pvp was outdated
due to spam wars.
Backlash is backlash. No singular change can be made without it. But when a majority likes it, as with 1.9, then the change was done right. Also, that's how people tend to fix problems. Do you really have a problem with bugfixes and rebalancing?
You can say there are inventive ways to pvp. Most pvpers that I have played with only know a few things. Scout, shoot and swing.
That is why "ruin" is the perfect word of choice. The way that people play pvp and do videos and so on has already forced
devs to waste their time inventing a solution. A solution that was otherwise unneeded.
Correct. There were always inventive ways to PVP. Plugins made that possible. But now there are MORE inventive ways to PVP, and less uninventive spammy ones.
But this is just my observation.
Usually I have something good to say about every observation, but since this is a lot of opinion and a lot of contradiction to facts, or at least obvious truths, and you are calling other people's points null, I have to 100% disagree here. Sorry. But that's just my opinion, I still have no right to take away yours. Just read what I wrote carefully, because there are a lot more "observations" you need to be making.
I'm getting a little sick of rant threads. If PvP is in the game, guess what? It was made to be part of the game. And there are creative ways to PvP incidentally. Mods (also known as "hacks") make things a bit interesting, and I use traps galore. There are other strategies too, but I'm too lazy to type them out right now.
There are a few comments here that do not pertain to my statement that are basically null.
The fact that you may go caving is not having any major impact on the game.
The fact that you have mods that add extra dungeons or mobs or whatever is not having any major impact on the game.
Entertainment is entertainment no matter where you seek it. There is no wrong way to do that, however, when the creators
of the game have to step aside just to try and fix something that isn't otherwise wrong with the game, just to try and push
a breath of creativity in? That is insane. A problem seen and faced by a large group of people could result into the developers seeing it and trying to find the solution for it. And since PvP is the most popular activity among Minecraft, of course it would be a problem for a majority of people in this particular group. They're only doing what they know is right (to some people at least, not directly you though, OP). This may have no relation to what I'm saying but at least be greatful Mojang isn't a developer that completely ignores their fans. I'm looking at you, Activision...
That means the devs had to take time to:
a: Figure out a solution
b: Implement that solution
c: Get the backlash for said solution
Simply because they saw a problem with how the game was being played. Those efforts could have gone towards anything
else. Blocks, ores, mobs etc. But no. They had to fix what was wrong and what was wrong was simply that pvp was outdated
due to spam wars. Mojang surely had it's reasoning, and I can agree with it. I have no practical interest in PvP, but with the new change, it makes me a little interested to see how it would work. And who knows, I might as well even try it.
You can say there are inventive ways to pvp. Most pvpers that I have played with only know a few things. Scout, shoot and swing.
That is why "ruin" is the perfect word of choice. The way that people play pvp and do videos and so on has already forced
devs to waste their time inventing a solution. A solution that was otherwise unneeded. This now confuses me, are you against the solution, or are you for the solution? Otherwise, this contradicts your arguments.
Mods (also known as "hacks") make things a bit interesting, and I use traps galore.
Mods aren't necessarily hacks, it depends on the area and how you're using it. If you're using a mod that allows you to see ores or give you OP buffs, in Singleplayer, then that's not really a problem. Though, using it in a Multiplayer PvP server is a whole other story.
PVP does not focus on the original scheme of the game. The original scheme was to be creative. There is very little
creative thinking when you are busy hacking and slashing. Don't agree with this, and not for being supportive of PVP, in fact I've never played PVP, it simply doesn't interest me, at least how the community sees it now. I disagree with this because the game was never intended to be creative. The game was intended to be a clean slate, to be a completely bare experience that the player sculpts to make it their own. This includes creativity, exploration, PVP, PVE, and pretty much anything you can think of. The game was intended to provide a non-discriminatory experience, where other games are fairly isolated.
On a personal note I do not pvp. I've tried it and it became stale. There is nothing entertaining about watching animated characters
fall down. Not to me anyways. I was pretty good at it but it just felt flavorless. You look at all these really cool builds that are
produced to host pvp sessions. The creations are excellent. Then you get a bunch of people together, not to enjoy the build,
not to gain inspiration, just to beat each other. This is where PVP spans off into sub-"categories". PVP as a whole is about beating each other, but from PVP we have several sub-games, the one that piqued my interest was factions and raiding; build a base and try to survive, just like survival, but you have the added threat of how you're not alone in the world, you and your friends are constantly at war with other players, the impending threat of being raided by other players is always surrounding you and your friends.
That is why pvp is and will continue to ruin minecraft. Don't believe me? Just look at 1.9. Over half of it is based around pvp. No, 1.9 is based on combat in general, that affects survival, PVP, PVE, factions and raids, and any sub-"game" you can think of involving combat.
The fact that you may go caving is not having any major impact on the game. It does when you claimed the game was solely intended for creativity.
The fact that you have mods that add extra dungeons or mobs or whatever is not having any major impact on the game. It does when you claimed the game was solely intended for creativity.
Entertainment is entertainment no matter where you seek it. There is no wrong way to do that, however, when the creators
of the game have to step aside just to try and fix something that isn't otherwise wrong with the game, just to try and push
a breath of creativity in? That is insane. Ah, but you didn't say that the game was intended for entertainment in general, now did you?
I'm getting a little sick of rant threads. If PvP is in the game, guess what? It was made to be part of the game. And there are creative ways to PvP incidentally. Mods (also known as "hacks") make things a bit interesting, and I use traps galore. There are other strategies too, but I'm too lazy to type them out right now.
Well, to be fair, Mojang never intended for PVP to be in the game. PVP was created by the community, not Mojang. Mojang simply gave players the ability to kill other players, the community expanded upon that to form a game out of it.
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Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
The generation has fixed many problems and adds to the adventiuring experience. The cave generation isn't worse. It's just different. New doesn't always mean worse.
I laugh everytime somebody posts a seed about an "insane" cave system in 1.7+ - which isn't even an AVERAGE cave system in 1.6.4 (this can easily be confirmed by using a mapping tool like Unmined to look underground)! And even the average cave system in 1.6.4 only takes me one play session to explore! Also, try traveling 3000 blocks underground without mining any tunnels to find new cave systems (except where caves have 1-2 block breaks in them and following caves entirely below y=11 until there is either no more lava at y=10 or they come back up:
Around the 30 altitude mark lies vast expanses of Abandoned Mineshafts and interconnected caves, spanning in some cases over 3 kilometers long in a continuous network.
They are not kidding - in 1.6.4 (back to Beta 1.8) there is one mineshaft every 100 chunks - an area only 160x160 blocks (these do become less common within 1280 blocks of 0, 0 so you want to travel further out to see just how common they actually are), plus one ravine every 50 chunks (113 blocks^2; surface ravines are perhaps 10% of all ravines) and one cave system (much more random and variable in size) every 15 chunks (62 blocks^2) with one cave every 2.24 chunks (24 blocks^2). Here is what my first world, created in 1.5.1 and never to see any version above 1.6.4 (I mean, chunk walls and stuff have to annoy almost anyone) looks like underground - that's only caves that have been explored; perhaps 95% of all of this is all interconnected in some manner, only rarely do I find a surface cave (usually only a single cave)/ravine that isn't connected to anything:
(the seed is "-123775873255737467" and you can check out the cave systems at (-800, -1050), (-60, -1680), (-860, 770), (-400, 1000), (-375, 1400), (-30, -1330), (800, -1590) to see for yourself what I mean by "massive")
The least that they could have done is add sliders to customize the size/frequency of cave systems and mineshafts, etc (check this out - don't tell me that isn't possible in Customized because the same code is used for both, and Superflat is much older). Indeed, TheMogMiner deserved to be fired:
I had asked MogMiner back when the customized options came out if we could get some settings to tweak the cave generation and he said it wasn't possible currently.
Yeah, right, "not possible" - when I can mod SNAPSHOTS to bring back the 1.6.4 cave generation (why do I not play on 1.7 then? None of the new features really interest me; I've never even used 1.6 features like stained clay or horses, or the vast assortment of redstone blocks/items, besides redstone blocks (if they did not exist I wouldn't bother mining it all, just as I did not mine all coal until 1.6 added coal blocks), even as I made a mod that backports most of the 1.7 biomes and some other 1.7-1.8 features (in fact, it even nerfs armor protection in favor of more durability, and long before 1.9 was in the works - of course, you can still easily survive creepers, etc), plus they lag and some people think that 10-20 FPS (in the latest 1.9 snapshots) is perfectly playable but not everybody has the eyesight/coordination/visual perception/whatever of an 80 year old)! Note that by "never having played 1.7+" I mean making an actual Survival world in them - I very well know exactly what they are like otherwise, even 1.9, despite no longer following update news since I hear about the new features anyway.
The main point of what I've posted is that NOBODY is going to tell me how I should play the game, which includes Mojang (servers can use plugins to fix some of the "issues" with PvP as they see fit - not having Mojang cram these changes down our throats even if we do not do PvP).
Yeah your right Minecraft is about building and using imagination not who is best at fighting other players, it is the reason why a lot of people get hate from being so good or so bad at fighting where with building all that matters is that you like it it doesn't matter if others don't like it because it kind of represents who you are. Don't go trying to copy others peoples builds because your creativity wouldn't be very good and you won't know what to do which would make Minecraft boring. Am I right?
Simply because they saw a problem with how the game was being played. Those efforts could have gone towards anything
else. Blocks, ores, mobs etc. But no. They had to fix what was wrong and what was wrong was simply that pvp was outdated
due to spam wars.
Are you talking about the upcoming 1.9?
In that case, you're not correct. PVE was also outdated. A lot. Due to "spam wars" - there were hardly any challenge, even on hard - and the devs made the update with PVE in mind (Which may be why most PVP'ers are whining about the new system).
Besides that, they also redid the dragon fight, made the End infinite, made TWO new dungeons both the End City and the Igloo. New treasure enchants, something we haven't had before. New food types, a new mob with new mechanics, and even a new Overworld "event" with the horse trap.
So no, this update aint all about PVP, and they actually took their time introducing some of the things you mention they could've "spent their time doing"
Now you may think I pulled a dyslexic moment but I didn't. Pvp is currently and will continue to ruin minecraft as long as
there is a large majority of players who pvp. Now bear in mind, because somehow I can imagine little 10-12 year old
fingers flaming it up, that this is just my observation. You do not have to treat it as fact.
Here are the facts though:
PVP does not focus on the original scheme of the game. The original scheme was to be creative. There is very little
creative thinking when you are busy hacking and slashing.
To further my point, in 1.9 the cooldown system was introduced. Many thought it would end pvp but instead others chose
to evolve and be creative even if only to get an edge in battle. This means that the devs saw what pvp was and how stale
it gets doing nothing but spamming just to see the animation of a character fall down with an accompanying text that
so and so killed whoever basically.
In response, devs chose to try and force a bit of creativity in. Efforts that could have been spent elsewhere.
On a personal note I do not pvp. I've tried it and it became stale. There is nothing entertaining about watching animated characters
fall down. Not to me anyways. I was pretty good at it but it just felt flavorless. You look at all these really cool builds that are
produced to host pvp sessions. The creations are excellent. Then you get a bunch of people together, not to enjoy the build,
not to gain inspiration, just to beat each other.
How many build contests occur anymore? How many redstone contests? Even though I was introduced to minecraft on console
I still feel minecraft should have stayed on pc. Every mega build I had seen was on pc. Every enormous redstone project, pc.
Now those inspirations of genuine creativity are dying due to all the attention focused on pvp.
New players don't want to waste their time learning to build or how redstone works. They want hack and slash. This isn't Gears
of War or GTA. Minecraft was created to be creative, to be competitive and to learn a thing or two. Now all I see is pvp this
and pvp that. FNAF even brought some creativeness in as any popular game does but after a few weeks it became FNAF pvp
arena and FNAF hunger games.
Some people say that minecraft is dying, even in the long shot that it actually were, ever wonder why? And how many times
have you spent days or weeks building something and felt the satisfaction of completion? Did it feel like minecraft was dying
then? Or did you just not win a few rounds of pvp? Never learning to build nor enjoy the game, just swing and jump.
I tell you. For me, you come on my server and take a swing. You'll find yourself blocked and banned. Pvp does not belong
in minecraft. It belongs in games built to cater to that and if that is what you find enjoyable then go enjoy it on those games.
Don't ruin minecraft for those who just want to play and build and be creative. Don't waste the devs time, force them to
try and make minecraft into something its not.
That is why pvp is and will continue to ruin minecraft. Don't believe me? Just look at 1.9. Over half of it is based around pvp.
Youtube-eonwolfx9, Twitter @eonwolfx9
Okay I do agree with you on the fact that Minecraft isn't a pvp game, it isn't, but it also pvp isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sure it is uncreative for the people playing it and it is just hack and slash at the moment. I also agree with you on the people making it and it is insanely good, I do enjoy a nice detailed map. You repeatedly say or mean I guess, but Minecraft is a sandbox game and yes that means building is the main core of the game. But that also doesn't mean pvp is a horrible thing and should be shunned, pvp can be very fun and interesting. I used to play a lot of pvp and did find it enjoyable and once in a while ill hop onto Hypixel or some other minigame server to play a type of pvp game. I get what your saying about how if you want to play a pvp game then go play something else besides Minecraft. Your right on the fact that Minecraft is not FNAF or GTA or whatever other game, and should be itself not try to imitate or copy things from different titles. 1.9 is trying to improve on pvp because it is a large portion of the community, and it did need to be updated from just hack and slash, but its also not just pvp tweaks in 1.9, there have been a lot of little updates meant to make the game better. 1 example is the 3 new types of command blocks, they will immensely help map makers, another example is the updated skeleton AI, now they move around and are actually somewhat of a challenge to kill if your decked out in armor and have really good gear. There is so many good things to come in 1.9, I personally think that Minecraft isn't dying but is instead evolving and growing into a better game and will continue to do so into the future.
Never mind 1.9 - I've never even played on 1.7 yet and probably never will, at least not vanilla (though modding the underground to replicate 1.6.4 and earlier versions is hardly non-vanilla in my view).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Before reading this, the only reason I thought PvP is a bad thing is because I'm terrible at it... :/
SURPRISE!!!!
Oh great, now I have to get a new computer.
Minecraft is merely a Creative game with some PvP elements. I see it largely as PvE and player Co-op. Minecraft is quite possibly the best co-op multiplayer game ever created. There's just a much better feeling when you all work together to accomplish something.
The only times I really PvP are on some special servers which actually add a sort of skill element to it, along with abilities that don't make it so bland. Also, sometimes its nice just to mess with friends while they're AFK.
Figured it was time for a change.
Since according to you pvp isn't what Minecraft is about, I guess then mods like The Twightlight Forest shouldn't exist, since Minecraft isn't about discovering dungeons and fighting bosses to gain rare weapons and armor. Notice, Minecraft is just going through stages. It's like a kid growing up. First, you have the "Alpha" stage where Baby Minecraft comes into the world, and it's players are just learning to the ropes of the game and getting used to it, since at that time there wasn't a super ton of creativity options.
Then comes beta. Minecraft is now no longer a toddler/baby, but now a kid. The players start learning about redstone and what can be done with it, and as more blocks get added, builds become better and better, and redstone contraptions more and more impressive and advanced. Eventually, people start to get a little bored of Minecraft as it is, do they turn to mods. This is like a kid getting bored of life and wanting to go on an adventure(NOT a SammyClassicSonicFan one),like sail the seven seas with their pirate crew, or take on Darth Vadar in Star Wars, or maybe be the President of the United States. After lots of other small growths to the brain and body, we have Minecraft where it is now. People PvPing left and right, and incredible command block machines being created.
Pvp is not ruining Minecraft, in fact, I think it is helping it. Pvp is just a another mode of Minecraft. Is it an official mode? No, but adventure maps are not official, and do they ruin minecraft? Factions has also brought along amazing advancements in cannons. I bet that if it wasn't for factions people would never build new types of cannons. When you first saw the normal ad erase TNT Cannon, did you think that eventually, someone would make a type of cannon that can tunnel 300 blocks through solid stone? Oh, and since you seem to be one of those "12 year olds ruin Minecraft" types, they like PvP servers. They go on PvP servers. They only go on Pvp servers. See what in getting at? More PvP servers = Less 12 year olds on other servers like survival servers or creative servers, according to you the main purpose of Minecraft.
Off course not, and that's pretty much the reason why you need to tell the rest of the world that they're "having fun wrong", right?
Let people PVP if that's what they want, the game does NOT force you to build - it's a creative sandbox game, and if people are actually having fun wacking swords at each other, what's hurting you?
For me, with a lag of 4 seconds or more, pvp is sort of.... You know.... A literal pause in the gameplay and then the death message. I watch a few factions youtubers and I think pvp is a big part of the game. Minecraft wouldn't be as big as it is now if it was entirely creative mode to build. No way
"Ruin" is quite a strong word your using there. I can agree that PvP isn't my cup of tea as well. But Minecraft is a sandbox time, you are supposed to do anything in it. Though I can also agree that the Devs would have had every reason to make some changes to PvP, because with how you explained it, there wasn't much skill to go around. Though, there was still some "form" of skill when PvPing. Then again, whatever it was, it required hardly any effort, and mostly required a good computer so that you wouldn't lag and that you would have an easier time pressing keys and moving around.
The idea of some people saying that "Minecraft is dying" is just the opinion of some people. If a large majority of people, that disagrees with the change in PvP, say that Minecraft is dying. Then that has to be the most pettiest and ridiculous excuse to say that "Minecraft is dying". It's still the best played game, and will be for more years to come. Minecraft isn't just about fighting, it's about using your creativity and ability to it's fullest. So long as Mojang (and Microsoft under some circumstances) continue to update Minecraft with the right additions and changes, with good reasonings to add, it will continue to flourish.
On another note, I disagree with you saying "PvP does not belong in Minecraft", I'll say it once and I'll say it again, it's a sandbox game, you can do whatever you like. Theres no shame in it, and there is no reason why it should be removed, no matter how much you hate it, no matter how much you protest. All I can say is, ignore it and move on.
Whoa. I thought Minecraft was a Sandbox game. Where you play the way you want, however you want. You want to build? Make what you like. You want to explore? Go where your heart desires. Want to challenge other players? You're free to do so. It's not a game that's constrained to either building or combat. You can do both if you want.
Come to think of it, Minecraft gives you the biggest virtual sandbox out there... hmm...
Lonnehart's Youtube Channel
Y'know? I bought Minecraft because I thought it was a war game where you had to create tactically placed proximity explosive devices...
There are a few comments here that do not pertain to my statement that are basically null.
The fact that you may go caving is not having any major impact on the game.
The fact that you have mods that add extra dungeons or mobs or whatever is not having any major impact on the game.
Entertainment is entertainment no matter where you seek it. There is no wrong way to do that, however, when the creators
of the game have to step aside just to try and fix something that isn't otherwise wrong with the game, just to try and push
a breath of creativity in? That is insane.
That means the devs had to take time to:
a: Figure out a solution
b: Implement that solution
c: Get the backlash for said solution
Simply because they saw a problem with how the game was being played. Those efforts could have gone towards anything
else. Blocks, ores, mobs etc. But no. They had to fix what was wrong and what was wrong was simply that pvp was outdated
due to spam wars.
You can say there are inventive ways to pvp. Most pvpers that I have played with only know a few things. Scout, shoot and swing.
That is why "ruin" is the perfect word of choice. The way that people play pvp and do videos and so on has already forced
devs to waste their time inventing a solution. A solution that was otherwise unneeded.
But this is just my observation.
Youtube-eonwolfx9, Twitter @eonwolfx9
Responses in bold. As a "creative thinker", PVP is totally fine and is not going to "ruin minecraft". Some guy beating up another guy on a server I've never seen isn't going to affect me at all, much less make me stop having fun.
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First of all, I'd like to point out it is not a cooldown bar. A cooldown bar would imply you can't attack at all until it is filled. You still CAN, and although being infinitely weaker, it causes knockback.
Second of all, 1.9 was made exactly for that reason: making people think creatively and strategically. Without spam clicking, and with these new features, PVP has become more diverse and exciting. PVP is undoubtedly a large part of the community, so efforts fixing it were not misplaced. Except maybe for a small amount of players. People have been asking for PVP to improve for literally years, and this is how you respond to a good fix?
You do not PVP and yet you are bashing it. Have you even tried PVP on 1.9? Have you tried a PVP server that is actually good? Because they are out there. Actually, in most strategic PVP servers such as MCinfected the builds are notoriously good so people specifically use the terrain and positioning to inspire strategies.
Your problem isn't about PvP in general, it's that you have yet to try a good PVP server.
So you downtalk 1.7 without playing it? That's sad. It is actually better than what a couple of people who also haven't tried it put it out to be.
In truth, 1.7 has really enhanced exploration. I do miss the oceans a lot but overall it was an improvement.
The generation has fixed many problems and adds to the adventiuring experience. The cave generation isn't worse. It's just different. New doesn't always mean worse.
^
Truth.
^
If you're still not going to give PVP a chance, listen to this comment: it's not even effecting you. The people who enjoy it enjoy it and the people who don't don't have to. PVP has done nothing bad to MC.
Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nopity nopity nope. The game can still play hack slash but strategic thinking has improved its structure for people who are willing to use their minds/wits and strategize. The devs want PVP and PVE to work similarly, and both aspects of the game needed tweaking. In 1.9, there is finally real danger even after diamond, so it is not some mindless automated poop.
Bold = reply
I'm getting a little sick of rant threads. If PvP is in the game, guess what? It was made to be part of the game. And there are creative ways to PvP incidentally. Mods (also known as "hacks") make things a bit interesting, and I use traps galore. There are other strategies too, but I'm too lazy to type them out right now.
Mods aren't necessarily hacks, it depends on the area and how you're using it. If you're using a mod that allows you to see ores or give you OP buffs, in Singleplayer, then that's not really a problem. Though, using it in a Multiplayer PvP server is a whole other story.
Well, to be fair, Mojang never intended for PVP to be in the game. PVP was created by the community, not Mojang. Mojang simply gave players the ability to kill other players, the community expanded upon that to form a game out of it.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
I laugh everytime somebody posts a seed about an "insane" cave system in 1.7+ - which isn't even an AVERAGE cave system in 1.6.4 (this can easily be confirmed by using a mapping tool like Unmined to look underground)! And even the average cave system in 1.6.4 only takes me one play session to explore! Also, try traveling 3000 blocks underground without mining any tunnels to find new cave systems (except where caves have 1-2 block breaks in them and following caves entirely below y=11 until there is either no more lava at y=10 or they come back up:
They are not kidding - in 1.6.4 (back to Beta 1.8) there is one mineshaft every 100 chunks - an area only 160x160 blocks (these do become less common within 1280 blocks of 0, 0 so you want to travel further out to see just how common they actually are), plus one ravine every 50 chunks (113 blocks^2; surface ravines are perhaps 10% of all ravines) and one cave system (much more random and variable in size) every 15 chunks (62 blocks^2) with one cave every 2.24 chunks (24 blocks^2). Here is what my first world, created in 1.5.1 and never to see any version above 1.6.4 (I mean, chunk walls and stuff have to annoy almost anyone) looks like underground - that's only caves that have been explored; perhaps 95% of all of this is all interconnected in some manner, only rarely do I find a surface cave (usually only a single cave)/ravine that isn't connected to anything:
(the seed is "-123775873255737467" and you can check out the cave systems at (-800, -1050), (-60, -1680), (-860, 770), (-400, 1000), (-375, 1400), (-30, -1330), (800, -1590) to see for yourself what I mean by "massive")
The least that they could have done is add sliders to customize the size/frequency of cave systems and mineshafts, etc (check this out - don't tell me that isn't possible in Customized because the same code is used for both, and Superflat is much older). Indeed, TheMogMiner deserved to be fired:
Yeah, right, "not possible" - when I can mod SNAPSHOTS to bring back the 1.6.4 cave generation (why do I not play on 1.7 then? None of the new features really interest me; I've never even used 1.6 features like stained clay or horses, or the vast assortment of redstone blocks/items, besides redstone blocks (if they did not exist I wouldn't bother mining it all, just as I did not mine all coal until 1.6 added coal blocks), even as I made a mod that backports most of the 1.7 biomes and some other 1.7-1.8 features (in fact, it even nerfs armor protection in favor of more durability, and long before 1.9 was in the works - of course, you can still easily survive creepers, etc), plus they lag and some people think that 10-20 FPS (in the latest 1.9 snapshots) is perfectly playable but not everybody has the eyesight/coordination/visual perception/whatever of an 80 year old)! Note that by "never having played 1.7+" I mean making an actual Survival world in them - I very well know exactly what they are like otherwise, even 1.9, despite no longer following update news since I hear about the new features anyway.
If you really want to get an idea of how I play, see this post - combined with the above I hope you now understand why newer versions do not interest me that much:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/survival-mode/297957-what-have-you-done-recently?comment=4423
The main point of what I've posted is that NOBODY is going to tell me how I should play the game, which includes Mojang (servers can use plugins to fix some of the "issues" with PvP as they see fit - not having Mojang cram these changes down our throats even if we do not do PvP).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Yeah your right Minecraft is about building and using imagination not who is best at fighting other players, it is the reason why a lot of people get hate from being so good or so bad at fighting where with building all that matters is that you like it it doesn't matter if others don't like it because it kind of represents who you are. Don't go trying to copy others peoples builds because your creativity wouldn't be very good and you won't know what to do which would make Minecraft boring. Am I right?
[
Are you talking about the upcoming 1.9?
In that case, you're not correct. PVE was also outdated. A lot. Due to "spam wars" - there were hardly any challenge, even on hard - and the devs made the update with PVE in mind (Which may be why most PVP'ers are whining about the new system).
Besides that, they also redid the dragon fight, made the End infinite, made TWO new dungeons both the End City and the Igloo. New treasure enchants, something we haven't had before. New food types, a new mob with new mechanics, and even a new Overworld "event" with the horse trap.
So no, this update aint all about PVP, and they actually took their time introducing some of the things you mention they could've "spent their time doing"