I tried the Windows 10 update, but it's missing so much of the core game. In my tests it runs better, smoother, and works overall better on Linux than on Windows. I sincerely dualboot Linux now just for Minecraft. I was able to test out the latest 1.9 snapshot on Linux and it's great. So here are my noob questions:
Will they ever block Linux?
Do they have the authority to do so now?
Will Microsoft eventually roll all the features into the "Windows 10 Edition"?
About how long until we see a 1.8 or 1.9 equivalent for the "Windows 10 Edition"?
Basically I want to know is, how much power does Microsoft have over the development of the core vanilla game?
I have been playing Minecraft since the early days and love it for what it is, and I know I can probably google all of these things but it's easier to make a post, go to work, have answers when I come home. I just have a lot of concerns I want to hear from reputable sources on. Not just some blog post spreading some lie, or hearsay, but real facts. The Internet is full of blogs full of lies and sorting through them all is a hassle.
"We aren't dropping support for Mac/Linux. Mac is getting its own native launcher very soon too! (Hopefully in about a month)"
"Do they have the authority to do so now?"
They probably could, they own Mojang... but that would cause anger and possibly lawsuits. Overall a bad business decision.
"Will Microsoft eventually roll all the features into the "Windows 10 Edition"?"
Feature convergence seems to be something they want, so they'll probably try.
"About how long until we see a 1.8 or 1.9 equivalent for the "Windows 10 Edition"?"
Win10 version is basically Pocket Edition, so it's going to be really far off before that ever becomes possible. I don't think it'll be caught up any time soon (probably 5+ years). I believe PE so far is the equivalent to the Beta version of the Java game, save for a few newer features they sprinkled in early. I believe they just added redstone (not sure if they finished/released it yet, though).
"Basically I want to know is, how much power does Microsoft have over the development of the core vanilla game?"
Not much actually. So far they have said they won't step in, and it seems they haven't. I'm assuming they are 2 separate teams, except for Jeb who occasionally seems to step over to PE.
I don't think you should worry, there are 2 scenarios I see:
PE+10 version and Java version both continue.
PE+10 gets features equal to the Java version, it turns out they were developing it in mind with OS X/Linux in mind all along, so they both get the C++ version (I don't think they'd do this unless the 'plugin API' was solved yet), Java version goes un-updated (you would still be able to play the old versions)
It might be possible that they implement things in such a way that features from the C++ version (PE/10) can be ported to the Java version easily, or that most of the system (like blocks, mobs, certain features, etc.) can be abstracted to a 3rd language script system (like Python) that will make the game more modular and thus equal. That way much of the content is cross-platform on its own (this would basically be the plugin API).
Hope this helps.
"Don't jump ship until it's on fire!"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
"We aren't dropping support for Mac/Linux. Mac is getting its own native launcher very soon too! (Hopefully in about a month)"
"Do they have the authority to do so now?"
They probably could, they own Mojang... but that would cause anger and possibly lawsuits. Overall a bad business decision.
"Will Microsoft eventually roll all the features into the "Windows 10 Edition"?"
Feature convergence seems to be something they want, so they'll probably try.
"About how long until we see a 1.8 or 1.9 equivalent for the "Windows 10 Edition"?"
Win10 version is basically Pocket Edition, so it's going to be really far off before that ever becomes possible. I don't think it'll be caught up any time soon (probably 5+ years). I believe PE so far is the equivalent to the Beta version of the Java game, save for a few newer features they sprinkled in early. I believe they just added redstone (not sure if they finished/released it yet, though).
"Basically I want to know is, how much power does Microsoft have over the development of the core vanilla game?"
Not much actually. So far they have said they won't step in, and it seems they haven't. I'm assuming they are 2 separate teams, except for Jeb who occasionally seems to step over to PE.
I don't think you should worry, there are 2 scenarios I see:
PE+10 version and Java version both continue.
PE+10 gets features equal to the Java version, it turns out they were developing it in mind with OS X/Linux in mind all along, so they both get the C version (I don't think they'd do this unless the 'plugin API' was solved yet), Java version goes un-updated (you would still be able to play the old versions)
It might be possible that they implement things in such a way that features from the C version (PE/10) can be ported to the Java version easily, or that most of the system (like blocks, mobs, certain features, etc.) can be abstracted to a 3rd language script system (like Python) that will make the game more modular and thus equal. That way much of the content is cross-platform on its own (this would basically be the plugin API).
Hope this helps.
"Don't jump ship until it's on fire!"
Thank you so much! This information was exactly what I was looking for!
I think the main issue standing in the way of C (I did not know it was programmed in C) is Java has a common Object super-type and C++ doesn't. This would be further hindered by the generic template system of Java. Like Ruby, Java script works on rails. Coding something as complex as this in C would be next to impossible, hence why Java was originally chosen. I am unsure of the JVM (rails) Minecraft uses, I think it is just a general Java sandbox. I have tried using J2C to convert simple macros to C++ and it is buggy at best, so I am quite impressed that the portable version is coded in C. And thats using OpenJDK code specifically coded for the OpenJDK rail.
Is it C# or C++? I think using C# would be the far better language to make the translation. If it is just C, you will never see everything implemented, and I am surprised redstone would exist due to regular C not supporting signed integers. The stack overflows themselves are what make redstone possible in the first place, things like item sorters are a direct translation of stack overflow.
Thanks for the information though, this helped more than you know. I know who to contact about looking for a job too, I think I might be able to offer my services.
Is it C# or C++? I think using C# would be the far better language to make the translation. If it is just C, you will never see everything implemented, and I am surprised redstone would exist due to regular C not supporting signed integers. The stack overflows themselves are what make redstone possible in the first place, things like item sorters are a direct translation of stack overflow.
Sorry, C++ (I guess it's what iOS uses, EDIT: or at least what they can use for a bulk of the code on both iOS/Android). I wasn't sure, but I looked it up and changed it before you made your post.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
I think the moment we see the win 10 version come out of beta, will be the moment that Java, PE and Win 10 all become cross compatible.
I hope!
That will not happen per say in the way we want it to happen due to the vast differences between Java and C++. At their core they are the same language, but they vastly differ in their tables. C++ is a great language, and the Windows kernel is based entirely on it, as well as Linux. But what limits C++ from being the be all end all language is the same reason its faster than Java, it is missing a ton of (in lamens terms) bloat. These features that bloat Java are what makes a lot of what makes Java and in retrospect Minecraft so good. It is what allows for redstone to be used in the way it is, item sorters, switches, trap chests, truncated rail systems with activator rails, and even a redstone computer (look it up on YouTube). Translating all of the facets of this to C++ is a task not for the feint hearted or simple minded. With Java you can have a class that handles stack overflow, with C++ you have to define every facet. Which is great for an operating system kernel, you can tell a kernel to run only specific code in a certain way to define compatibility, and allows for us to use games coded for Windows 98 in Windows 10 in 2015. But when you want fuzzy logic, C++ is not the code to use and IMHO I can't think of a single reason to be using such a language for something as vast and deep as Minecraft.
I think the argument that a mod had to come and delete made this very clear as to why I even mentioned the Win10 version. I did not know it was the PE version and I did not know either was coded in C++. Whoever came up with this as an idea was only trying to line their wallets instead of fixing what is wrong with Java, and making a rail specific for the job. They are using an entire JVM all bells and whistles included to run Minecraft. This ensures compatibility across a wide array of devices. What it's drawback is, Windows is ill-equipped at handling fuzzy logic, and it is why OpenGL runs better on Linux and DirectX runs better on Windows. It is why classes are far better handled on Linux.
I think one good thing will come of the C++ version, is they could create a very dumbed down JVM C wrapper, to execute Minecraft in a better way, defining integers rather than leaving them fuzzy. This would allow for your complex builds to become more reliable.
I am not saying a C++ Minecraft is impossible, I am saying it is not a job for the lazy. To accomplish 2 lines of Java code, you would need 8 lines of C++. This is only further compounded the more complex the JVM tables become. You would need to define every class, every integer, in deep complex code, that you can simply input into what amounts to using an excel spreadsheet. It is why programmers choose Java over other languages because they don't have to define everything, they can put idea to plan in 1/100th the time over other languages.
Coding something as complex as this in C would be next to impossible, hence why Java was originally chosen.
Actually, Java was chosen because that's what Notch (the original creator of the game) was most comfortable with and what he found most fun. I'm sure if he had liked some C language more, I'm sure he would have used that.
He never intended for the game to be popular, let alone one of THE BEST SELLING GAMES EVER. When he started out it was a 'pet project' to make a little money. He didn't code the game to be neat, but to get it DONE(that's why the game is STILL in such a messy state). He played things as they came along, so obviously redstone wasn't something planned to add from the start.
I did not know it was the PE version and I did not know either was coded in C++. Whoever came up with this as an idea was only trying to line their wallets instead of fixing what is wrong with Java, and making a rail specific for the job.
It was originally intended just to get Minecraft on iOS and Android (Win10 version came much later, Win10 didn't exist when PE first came out!), not as a direct replacement for the Java version. C++ was chosen because it could work on both Android and iOS, Java wasn't any sort of an option for iOS like it is Android (.APKs). (also note: around PE's start, Notch was still with Mojang and was displeased with Win8 so a deal was unlikely to happen)
Furthermore, Java actually isn't the cause of Minecraft's problems, but unoptimized code and just the general way Minecraft works is. It's slow because it's a large destructible and constructible world that needs to be updated constantly for liquids/plants/redstone (often times while the world is still generating), and is always trying to spawn mobs.
The game is also still very outdated, specifically with the rendering code (the guy who was updating it doesn't work at Mojang anymore). Underground caves, even those that are closed off, are always rendering. Chunks are in vertical strips, so from the moment you start in the world you're trying to generate EVERYTHING, including solid chunks that you may never see.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
I tried the Windows 10 update, but it's missing so much of the core game. In my tests it runs better, smoother, and works overall better on Linux than on Windows. I sincerely dualboot Linux now just for Minecraft. I was able to test out the latest 1.9 snapshot on Linux and it's great. So here are my noob questions:
Will they ever block Linux?
Do they have the authority to do so now?
Will Microsoft eventually roll all the features into the "Windows 10 Edition"?
About how long until we see a 1.8 or 1.9 equivalent for the "Windows 10 Edition"?
Basically I want to know is, how much power does Microsoft have over the development of the core vanilla game?
I have been playing Minecraft since the early days and love it for what it is, and I know I can probably google all of these things but it's easier to make a post, go to work, have answers when I come home. I just have a lot of concerns I want to hear from reputable sources on. Not just some blog post spreading some lie, or hearsay, but real facts. The Internet is full of blogs full of lies and sorting through them all is a hassle.
Anyway, if minecraft can only run on windows, just install a microsoft windows OS on your Linux or mac or some others
My youtube channel: Click here
Contact me for designing and coding services (Professional Programmer)
This entire off-topic argument about Linux has been deleted. Please do not restart it.
The OP is asking some pretty basic questions. If you wish to answer the questions, you can post. If you want to argue about Linux, please leave.
- sunperp
- sunperp
"Will they ever block Linux?"
Mojang has stated multiple times that they do not intend to drop Linux or OS X support. Example:
https://twitter.com/_tomcc/status/617464527593021440
"Linux people complaining we’re going to drop linux support: we are not. Whoever said that in the first place?"
https://twitter.com/dinnerbone/status/625965518902685696
"We aren't dropping support for Mac/Linux. Mac is getting its own native launcher very soon too! (Hopefully in about a month)"
"Do they have the authority to do so now?"
They probably could, they own Mojang... but that would cause anger and possibly lawsuits. Overall a bad business decision.
"Will Microsoft eventually roll all the features into the "Windows 10 Edition"?"
Feature convergence seems to be something they want, so they'll probably try.
"About how long until we see a 1.8 or 1.9 equivalent for the "Windows 10 Edition"?"
Win10 version is basically Pocket Edition, so it's going to be really far off before that ever becomes possible. I don't think it'll be caught up any time soon (probably 5+ years). I believe PE so far is the equivalent to the Beta version of the Java game, save for a few newer features they sprinkled in early. I believe they just added redstone (not sure if they finished/released it yet, though).
"Basically I want to know is, how much power does Microsoft have over the development of the core vanilla game?"
Not much actually. So far they have said they won't step in, and it seems they haven't. I'm assuming they are 2 separate teams, except for Jeb who occasionally seems to step over to PE.
I don't think you should worry, there are 2 scenarios I see:
It might be possible that they implement things in such a way that features from the C++ version (PE/10) can be ported to the Java version easily, or that most of the system (like blocks, mobs, certain features, etc.) can be abstracted to a 3rd language script system (like Python) that will make the game more modular and thus equal. That way much of the content is cross-platform on its own (this would basically be the plugin API).
Hope this helps.
"Don't jump ship until it's on fire!"
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Thank you so much! This information was exactly what I was looking for!
I think the main issue standing in the way of C (I did not know it was programmed in C) is Java has a common Object super-type and C++ doesn't. This would be further hindered by the generic template system of Java. Like Ruby, Java script works on rails. Coding something as complex as this in C would be next to impossible, hence why Java was originally chosen. I am unsure of the JVM (rails) Minecraft uses, I think it is just a general Java sandbox. I have tried using J2C to convert simple macros to C++ and it is buggy at best, so I am quite impressed that the portable version is coded in C. And thats using OpenJDK code specifically coded for the OpenJDK rail.
Is it C# or C++? I think using C# would be the far better language to make the translation. If it is just C, you will never see everything implemented, and I am surprised redstone would exist due to regular C not supporting signed integers. The stack overflows themselves are what make redstone possible in the first place, things like item sorters are a direct translation of stack overflow.
Thanks for the information though, this helped more than you know. I know who to contact about looking for a job too, I think I might be able to offer my services.
Sorry, C++ (I guess it's what iOS uses, EDIT: or at least what they can use for a bulk of the code on both iOS/Android). I wasn't sure, but I looked it up and changed it before you made your post.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
That will not happen per say in the way we want it to happen due to the vast differences between Java and C++. At their core they are the same language, but they vastly differ in their tables. C++ is a great language, and the Windows kernel is based entirely on it, as well as Linux. But what limits C++ from being the be all end all language is the same reason its faster than Java, it is missing a ton of (in lamens terms) bloat. These features that bloat Java are what makes a lot of what makes Java and in retrospect Minecraft so good. It is what allows for redstone to be used in the way it is, item sorters, switches, trap chests, truncated rail systems with activator rails, and even a redstone computer (look it up on YouTube). Translating all of the facets of this to C++ is a task not for the feint hearted or simple minded. With Java you can have a class that handles stack overflow, with C++ you have to define every facet. Which is great for an operating system kernel, you can tell a kernel to run only specific code in a certain way to define compatibility, and allows for us to use games coded for Windows 98 in Windows 10 in 2015. But when you want fuzzy logic, C++ is not the code to use and IMHO I can't think of a single reason to be using such a language for something as vast and deep as Minecraft.
I think the argument that a mod had to come and delete made this very clear as to why I even mentioned the Win10 version. I did not know it was the PE version and I did not know either was coded in C++. Whoever came up with this as an idea was only trying to line their wallets instead of fixing what is wrong with Java, and making a rail specific for the job. They are using an entire JVM all bells and whistles included to run Minecraft. This ensures compatibility across a wide array of devices. What it's drawback is, Windows is ill-equipped at handling fuzzy logic, and it is why OpenGL runs better on Linux and DirectX runs better on Windows. It is why classes are far better handled on Linux.
I think one good thing will come of the C++ version, is they could create a very dumbed down JVM C wrapper, to execute Minecraft in a better way, defining integers rather than leaving them fuzzy. This would allow for your complex builds to become more reliable.
I am not saying a C++ Minecraft is impossible, I am saying it is not a job for the lazy. To accomplish 2 lines of Java code, you would need 8 lines of C++. This is only further compounded the more complex the JVM tables become. You would need to define every class, every integer, in deep complex code, that you can simply input into what amounts to using an excel spreadsheet. It is why programmers choose Java over other languages because they don't have to define everything, they can put idea to plan in 1/100th the time over other languages.
Actually, Java was chosen because that's what Notch (the original creator of the game) was most comfortable with and what he found most fun. I'm sure if he had liked some C language more, I'm sure he would have used that.
He never intended for the game to be popular, let alone one of THE BEST SELLING GAMES EVER. When he started out it was a 'pet project' to make a little money. He didn't code the game to be neat, but to get it DONE(that's why the game is STILL in such a messy state). He played things as they came along, so obviously redstone wasn't something planned to add from the start.
It was originally intended just to get Minecraft on iOS and Android (Win10 version came much later, Win10 didn't exist when PE first came out!), not as a direct replacement for the Java version. C++ was chosen because it could work on both Android and iOS, Java wasn't any sort of an option for iOS like it is Android (.APKs). (also note: around PE's start, Notch was still with Mojang and was displeased with Win8 so a deal was unlikely to happen)
Furthermore, Java actually isn't the cause of Minecraft's problems, but unoptimized code and just the general way Minecraft works is. It's slow because it's a large destructible and constructible world that needs to be updated constantly for liquids/plants/redstone (often times while the world is still generating), and is always trying to spawn mobs.
The game is also still very outdated, specifically with the rendering code (the guy who was updating it doesn't work at Mojang anymore). Underground caves, even those that are closed off, are always rendering. Chunks are in vertical strips, so from the moment you start in the world you're trying to generate EVERYTHING, including solid chunks that you may never see.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin