I love the EULA changes. and honestly it provides a more stable way to make money, but it jsut requires a little more effort to get running. its a tighter system that HELPS with the abuse.
i always hated pay-to-win servers and donation ranks. This forces people to make money in a fair and balanced way. if a few serevrs die because of it, so be it.
Mojang made a product, you pay to use it. It doesn't matter whether or not you feel entitled to do what you like with it. It is still Mojang's intellectual and legal property. Yes, the rules were vague. Now they aren't as vague. If you don't like the rules, either don't play the game, or work within the system to effect change.
It probably doesn't help the majority of posters sound like spoiled, entitled children whining because they can't do whatever they want with the new toy they bought. A gun may be a weapon, but you're not entitled to rob someone with it or break any other 'rules'. Same with the game.
Btw, I've seen this argument used too much by certain posters on this thread. You may or may not own the server hardware with which you host a Minecraft server, but you definitely do NOT own the 'server', that is, the software written by Mojang, based on their code, or ported. That covers Forge, Bukkit, Spigot, etc... ALL of these software setups are based on Mojang code, and arguably 'belong' to them. You, as a player, 'server' owner, coder, modeler, pack maker, etc... are not entitled to anything outside of the EULA.
To the people with the "We can/will do as we please".
You are not right, you are wrong.
You're breaking their rules and can be held legally accountable. If you choose to do that, fine. You know what that means. Don't give those of us who legitimately want to work within the system set up by Mojang to advance the game and it's wonderful community a hard time because we choose to play within the rules. You have made the choice to act in the manner that best suits you, not your users. Don't try to pretend this isn't about the money. Yes, servers cost money. I would add that the poster who mentioned $300/year in hosting costs for a semi-popular server is most likely thinking of a small 1-20 person server. Anything with 50-200 is considerably more, and $300 per month, not year, is definitely logical and common. It's a reality that few players take seriously.
It basically comes down to whether or not you choose to follow their rules or not. If you do, good for you. If you don't, don't be surprised when it bites you in the backside.
If you like F2P or not is irrelevent to the question. The question was do you think they would be around if they depended on donations only? If the answer is, "no i dont think they would be around." Then what do you think will happen to our minecraft servers?
I'm okay with server owners who run big operations to charge for them, personally. Doesn't mean I'll join that server, but you mistake my intent. I don't think it's okay at all to charge for gameplay enhancing items. I do think it's okay to ask for donations and even to charge for membership into a server. But to go under the guise of F2P and say "Well if you give us this much we'll give you access to iron tools, if you give us this much we'll give you diamond tools, and if you'd like your own special plot of land in game to develop on, give us this much." That crap is just that, crap and it turns me (and most people) off to the big servers. I've tried playing on a few servers like this and in the end it always made me leave and just play on my own or in small groups with my friends. I honestly don't think it'd hurt Minecraft, it'd just hurt the people trying to leech off Minecrafts success by trying to make a living off of running a server. You can run a server perfectly fine with donations and even membership fees when done right. No reason to do that other bs.
Mohjang has done nothing in the years they have been making this game, what makes you think this is anything more than a scare tactic? If I still ran servers, I would say KMA, cause I wouldn't care. If and only if they actually show they bring down servers, would I even give a damn about this new EULA.
Mojang made a product, you pay to use it. It doesn't matter whether or not you feel entitled to do what you like with it. It is still Mojang's intellectual and legal property. Yes, the rules were vague. Now they aren't as vague. If you don't like the rules, either don't play the game, or work within the system to effect change.
It probably doesn't help the majority of posters sound like spoiled, entitled children whining because they can't do whatever they want with the new toy they bought. A gun may be a weapon, but you're not entitled to rob someone with it or break any other 'rules'. Same with the game.
Btw, I've seen this argument used too much by certain posters on this thread. You may or may not own the server hardware with which you host a Minecraft server, but you definitely do NOT own the 'server', that is, the software written by Mojang, based on their code, or ported. That covers Forge, Bukkit, Spigot, etc... ALL of these software setups are based on Mojang code, and arguably 'belong' to them. You, as a player, 'server' owner, coder, modeler, pack maker, etc... are not entitled to anything outside of the EULA.
To the people with the "We can/will do as we please".
You are not right, you are wrong.
You're breaking their rules and can be held legally accountable. If you choose to do that, fine. You know what that means. Don't give those of us who legitimately want to work within the system set up by Mojang to advance the game and it's wonderful community a hard time because we choose to play within the rules. You have made the choice to act in the manner that best suits you, not your users. Don't try to pretend this isn't about the money. Yes, servers cost money. I would add that the poster who mentioned $300/year in hosting costs for a semi-popular server is most likely thinking of a small 1-20 person server. Anything with 50-200 is considerably more, and $300 per month, not year, is definitely logical and common. It's a reality that few players take seriously.
It basically comes down to whether or not you choose to follow their rules or not. If you do, good for you. If you don't, don't be surprised when it bites you in the backside.
Do servers really need to function as a free-market capitalist economy? We all know how ugly those can get. Regulations will, in the end, always help the consumer.
What worries me though is that what if people pay entry to the server but get banned immediately?
That's why you pay with PayPal, so you can file a complaint with them to get a refund if the server people screw you over. This is also why I personally wouldn't pay any significant amount of money to join a server, as this is obviously a potential issue. That being said, if something like that happens I'd also come here and post about it (with screenshots as proof). Reputation is a big deal in the Minecraft community and most of the more mainstream servers want to maintain a good rep.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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You can charge for access to the server? Define "access".
Everyone paid or not spawns into a "tour of server" space that talks about the server, what it does, and offers captive teleport portals to glassed-in sightseeing platforms in various towns and popular spaces for anyone to look around and see what there is to offer. People in this area cannot speak in global chat (if available) but can see it at least, and can talk to mods/admins to ask questions about the server.
But to actually leave this introduction-to-server access space to actually play on the server, that requires paid access.
I completely agree that no one should be allowed to restrict things like tools etc. But let me come with a clear example of where I think restriction is a good thing for the server. Tnt. Not allowing non paying members to use tnt, is a good way to ease major greifing on a server, while allowing Tnt usage for Donators, as they have already proven that they are serious about the server, and theres generaly alot less donators than regular members. In that case, I would be in favor os restriction.
Well my six year old son thinks that everyone should be able to use TNT, but this is why we don't let him play on other peoples servers
I get what you say, but I think there are ways to control griefers without making a paywall. Some of the better servers I've been on usually have a tiered ranking system and you have to basically behave well and contribute to the community to earn rank and eventually get the capability of using stuff like TNT.
Stop for a second and ask what would happen to Free To Play games if suddenly they were forced to be depended on donations alone? Do you think they would be around for long?
Maybe they would, if it was honestly worth the money, and the community actually willing to keep it alive themselves. However, above are two other options that could also support the server, advertising and universal fees as well. Hell, if I actually played Minecraft more frequently and had a server to play on that required donations, I'd gladly donate a few dollars if it was good (or pay a small universal fee).
But, your argument is essentially irrelevant. This is how it is, and how it should have been according to the EULA. If you don't like it, there isn't much that can be done anyway, this is what Mojang wants, this is what the players agreed to, and that's that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A sword yields no power if the person who wields it holds no courage."
I am wondering if mojang opted for standard buckshot or a 50. cal bullet when they went ahead and shot themselves in the foot with this EULA update.
seeing as far as I can tell hardly any servers are even going to bother changing even the smallest little detail about their donations or the way they run things.
oh well the fame, power and money was bound to go to your head sooner or later.
congrats on the running start down the path that EA, Activsion and countless others have paved.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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Also I could see making a "ghost mode" that allows unpaid people to walk around in any open area of a server but not interact with anything, pick up items on the ground, or to be seen by anyone, or to speak in global chat (but can see it), and they can ask questions of mods/admins about the server.
Actual access beyond a read-only view of the world requires payment.
I completely agree that no one should be allowed to restrict things like tools etc. But let me come with a clear example of where I think restriction is a good thing for the server. Tnt. Not allowing non paying members to use tnt, is a good way to ease major greifing on a server, while allowing Tnt usage for Donators, as they have already proven that they are serious about the server, and theres generaly alot less donators than regular members. In that case, I would be in favor os restriction.
That's unfair and just shows laziness on the servers side along with lack of resourcefulness.
IT IS PERFECTLY possible for EVERYONE to have access to TNT if it was a non-donating ranking system + a non-grief or roll back plugin.
Also I could see making a "ghost mode" that allows unpaid people to walk around in any open area of a server but not interact with anything, pick up items on the ground, or to be seen by anyone, or to speak in global chat (but can see it), and they can ask questions of mods/admins about the server.
Actual access beyond a read-only view of the world requires payment.
THIS is what the Minecraft community is about! Adapt, change, get creative! If there's a problem, help find a solution. I personally wouldn't mind a few ads in a game to help defer server costs. Or a fee, or any other method Mojang allows. Work within the system to effect change, not outside of it. Those who do ruin it for everyone else.
This is an interesting subject, but, we all know minecraft games alike have done this many times. What will they do to enforce this rule? Shut down your server? Can they even find out who runs/owns it?
1. I have run a server under an alias with fake information before, and even on a private machine, which means they wouldn't be able to contact the host, because the host would be me, and the email would be unresponsive.
2. How I run a server, what ranks/tiers are payed for, or content I decide to run via plugins is non of their business...
Sounds to be like a fail by mojang to be honest. You cannot control how servers are being run...
I would love to see the reactions and discussions on this matter, this is sure to fail. I can't see anything bad happening if someone ignores these rules...
*ignores them*
You've never been involved in litigation before.
It is pretty simply: ignore the summons on the lawsuit, don't show up, and you lose.
IP addresses are easy enough to track. In the event that a service provider covers it up, the litigant goes after the provider. If they resist attempts, namely covering up for you, they can and would be sued successfully, as well as any pending criminal charges for abetting and otherwise contributing to unlawful activity. This generally doesn't happen, as most providers are not willing to go to prison or pay fines and restitution to "cover your back".
It all depends on if they (Mojang) chooses to pay attention to you or not.
Mojang made a product, you pay to use it. It doesn't matter whether or not you feel entitled to do what you like with it. It is still Mojang's intellectual and legal property. Yes, the rules were vague. Now they aren't as vague. If you don't like the rules, either don't play the game, or work within the system to effect change.
It probably doesn't help the majority of posters sound like spoiled, entitled children whining because they can't do whatever they want with the new toy they bought. A gun may be a weapon, but you're not entitled to rob someone with it or break any other 'rules'. Same with the game.
Btw, I've seen this argument used too much by certain posters on this thread. You may or may not own the server hardware with which you host a Minecraft server, but you definitely do NOT own the 'server', that is, the software written by Mojang, based on their code, or ported. That covers Forge, Bukkit, Spigot, etc... ALL of these software setups are based on Mojang code, and arguably 'belong' to them. You, as a player, 'server' owner, coder, modeler, pack maker, etc... are not entitled to anything outside of the EULA.
To the people with the "We can/will do as we please".
You are not right, you are wrong.
You're breaking their rules and can be held legally accountable. If you choose to do that, fine. You know what that means. Don't give those of us who legitimately want to work within the system set up by Mojang to advance the game and it's wonderful community a hard time because we choose to play within the rules. You have made the choice to act in the manner that best suits you, not your users. Don't try to pretend this isn't about the money. Yes, servers cost money. I would add that the poster who mentioned $300/year in hosting costs for a semi-popular server is most likely thinking of a small 1-20 person server. Anything with 50-200 is considerably more, and $300 per month, not year, is definitely logical and common. It's a reality that few players take seriously.
It basically comes down to whether or not you choose to follow their rules or not. If you do, good for you. If you don't, don't be surprised when it bites you in the backside.
I find it funny that a company, who has painstakingly attempted to guard its name from brandishings such as "greedy" and "immoral" through countless acts like refusal to profit from youtube videos made on their product, and refusal to work with companies deemed with such brandishings like Facebook, is now pushed back into a corner by a fair amount of its community members by an argument, and their only defense is people like yourself throwing up the word "OWNERSHIP" in the face of their opposition.
I am wondering if mojang opted for standard buckshot or a 50. cal bullet when they went ahead and shot themselves in the foot with this EULA update.
seeing as far as I can tell hardly any servers are even going to bother changing even the smallest little detail about their donations or the way they run things.
oh well the fame, power and money was bound to go to your head sooner or later.
congrats on the running start down the path that EA, Activsion and countless others have paved.
They didn't shoot themselves in the foot, they saved themselves from what would've been a shot in the foot PR-wise if they continued to allow some of these ***-hat server owners to run sham operations of charging ridiculous fees for elite status, essentially. This thread is continually reminding me why I tend to favor SP and private MP servers over the big ones.
Id really like to see a brand new server get along with free acess to tnt.
As he said, you have a good group of mods, you limit TNT based on a non-monetary ranking system where people earn the ability to use TNT based on good behavior and a willingness to contribute to the community, not on the size of their wallets. I've been on multiple servers that do this and it's always worked out well. I've been on a server that did what you suggest and it was a horrid community and needless to say I didn't stick around very long there.
i always hated pay-to-win servers and donation ranks. This forces people to make money in a fair and balanced way. if a few serevrs die because of it, so be it.
It probably doesn't help the majority of posters sound like spoiled, entitled children whining because they can't do whatever they want with the new toy they bought. A gun may be a weapon, but you're not entitled to rob someone with it or break any other 'rules'. Same with the game.
Btw, I've seen this argument used too much by certain posters on this thread. You may or may not own the server hardware with which you host a Minecraft server, but you definitely do NOT own the 'server', that is, the software written by Mojang, based on their code, or ported. That covers Forge, Bukkit, Spigot, etc... ALL of these software setups are based on Mojang code, and arguably 'belong' to them. You, as a player, 'server' owner, coder, modeler, pack maker, etc... are not entitled to anything outside of the EULA.
To the people with the "We can/will do as we please".
You are not right, you are wrong.
You're breaking their rules and can be held legally accountable. If you choose to do that, fine. You know what that means. Don't give those of us who legitimately want to work within the system set up by Mojang to advance the game and it's wonderful community a hard time because we choose to play within the rules. You have made the choice to act in the manner that best suits you, not your users. Don't try to pretend this isn't about the money. Yes, servers cost money. I would add that the poster who mentioned $300/year in hosting costs for a semi-popular server is most likely thinking of a small 1-20 person server. Anything with 50-200 is considerably more, and $300 per month, not year, is definitely logical and common. It's a reality that few players take seriously.
It basically comes down to whether or not you choose to follow their rules or not. If you do, good for you. If you don't, don't be surprised when it bites you in the backside.
I'm okay with server owners who run big operations to charge for them, personally. Doesn't mean I'll join that server, but you mistake my intent. I don't think it's okay at all to charge for gameplay enhancing items. I do think it's okay to ask for donations and even to charge for membership into a server. But to go under the guise of F2P and say "Well if you give us this much we'll give you access to iron tools, if you give us this much we'll give you diamond tools, and if you'd like your own special plot of land in game to develop on, give us this much." That crap is just that, crap and it turns me (and most people) off to the big servers. I've tried playing on a few servers like this and in the end it always made me leave and just play on my own or in small groups with my friends. I honestly don't think it'd hurt Minecraft, it'd just hurt the people trying to leech off Minecrafts success by trying to make a living off of running a server. You can run a server perfectly fine with donations and even membership fees when done right. No reason to do that other bs.
It is very much their business.
Pretty much summed it up better than anyone. +1
Good job Mojang!
Putting the CENDENT back in transcendent!
That's why you pay with PayPal, so you can file a complaint with them to get a refund if the server people screw you over. This is also why I personally wouldn't pay any significant amount of money to join a server, as this is obviously a potential issue. That being said, if something like that happens I'd also come here and post about it (with screenshots as proof). Reputation is a big deal in the Minecraft community and most of the more mainstream servers want to maintain a good rep.
You can charge for access to the server? Define "access".
Everyone paid or not spawns into a "tour of server" space that talks about the server, what it does, and offers captive teleport portals to glassed-in sightseeing platforms in various towns and popular spaces for anyone to look around and see what there is to offer. People in this area cannot speak in global chat (if available) but can see it at least, and can talk to mods/admins to ask questions about the server.
But to actually leave this introduction-to-server access space to actually play on the server, that requires paid access.
Well my six year old son thinks that everyone should be able to use TNT, but this is why we don't let him play on other peoples servers
I get what you say, but I think there are ways to control griefers without making a paywall. Some of the better servers I've been on usually have a tiered ranking system and you have to basically behave well and contribute to the community to earn rank and eventually get the capability of using stuff like TNT.
Maybe they would, if it was honestly worth the money, and the community actually willing to keep it alive themselves. However, above are two other options that could also support the server, advertising and universal fees as well. Hell, if I actually played Minecraft more frequently and had a server to play on that required donations, I'd gladly donate a few dollars if it was good (or pay a small universal fee).
But, your argument is essentially irrelevant. This is how it is, and how it should have been according to the EULA. If you don't like it, there isn't much that can be done anyway, this is what Mojang wants, this is what the players agreed to, and that's that.
seeing as far as I can tell hardly any servers are even going to bother changing even the smallest little detail about their donations or the way they run things.
oh well the fame, power and money was bound to go to your head sooner or later.
congrats on the running start down the path that EA, Activsion and countless others have paved.
Actual access beyond a read-only view of the world requires payment.
That's unfair and just shows laziness on the servers side along with lack of resourcefulness.
IT IS PERFECTLY possible for EVERYONE to have access to TNT if it was a non-donating ranking system + a non-grief or roll back plugin.
THIS is what the Minecraft community is about! Adapt, change, get creative! If there's a problem, help find a solution. I personally wouldn't mind a few ads in a game to help defer server costs. Or a fee, or any other method Mojang allows. Work within the system to effect change, not outside of it. Those who do ruin it for everyone else.
You've never been involved in litigation before.
It is pretty simply: ignore the summons on the lawsuit, don't show up, and you lose.
IP addresses are easy enough to track. In the event that a service provider covers it up, the litigant goes after the provider. If they resist attempts, namely covering up for you, they can and would be sued successfully, as well as any pending criminal charges for abetting and otherwise contributing to unlawful activity. This generally doesn't happen, as most providers are not willing to go to prison or pay fines and restitution to "cover your back".
It all depends on if they (Mojang) chooses to pay attention to you or not.
I find it funny that a company, who has painstakingly attempted to guard its name from brandishings such as "greedy" and "immoral" through countless acts like refusal to profit from youtube videos made on their product, and refusal to work with companies deemed with such brandishings like Facebook, is now pushed back into a corner by a fair amount of its community members by an argument, and their only defense is people like yourself throwing up the word "OWNERSHIP" in the face of their opposition.
They didn't shoot themselves in the foot, they saved themselves from what would've been a shot in the foot PR-wise if they continued to allow some of these ***-hat server owners to run sham operations of charging ridiculous fees for elite status, essentially. This thread is continually reminding me why I tend to favor SP and private MP servers over the big ones.
As he said, you have a good group of mods, you limit TNT based on a non-monetary ranking system where people earn the ability to use TNT based on good behavior and a willingness to contribute to the community, not on the size of their wallets. I've been on multiple servers that do this and it's always worked out well. I've been on a server that did what you suggest and it was a horrid community and needless to say I didn't stick around very long there.
You ignored the rest of my post?