What matters to me it is not a bad thing either. The bad thing here is people have the wrong idea that minecraft was made for them to profit it. If people wants to maintain a server, they will pay for it regardless of perks. Period. Making them less likely to pay w/o perks means they only pay for the perks and not the entertainment value found in the server. They enjoy the game because they feel superior and not because the server is entertaining in itself.
In short, I don't gain or lose anything from it and neither people who don't treat minecraft as a business.
So, you are not personally impacted AT ALL by servers staying pay for perk. You have just essentially explained my point.
That said, why do you even care if someone makes a living off of running a Minecraft server? Clearly it doesn't affect you in either a positive or negative fashion. In fact, I haven't really heard ANY arguments from anyone supporting Mojang's decision that has really explained how its a bad thing for people to make a living doing something they love. Are you jealous? I mean, I honestly cannot think of any other reason you would sit here and bash the people who are legitimately affected by this change when you're not.
Minecraft was a game to exercise creativity, and possibly be used for education. Minecraft was NEVER INTENDED to be a pay to win game.
~snip~
Sure a quality server takes time and money to run, but this doesn't mean that you have to rip off players on donation ranks or give people an unfair advantage.
Minecraft was also never intended initially to have pistons, someone from the community created them and Mojang implemented them into the base game. The community created that feature. Same goes for Ender Chests and Horses. So because Minecraft was never intended to have them initially, they shouldn't exist?
The community drives this game. Some of the most popular servers in the Minecraft community have created some of the most popular additions to the game (MineZ to name one). Many things were never thought about initially, but they happened and for the better. These servers create jobs, create entertainment, create new content that may find its way into the base game or realms, etc.
I'll post the same question to you as I did to the other user I quoted...How does restricting servers benefit you personally? You've always had the option to play, it doesn't take anything away from you. It doesn't benefit you either as many of those popular servers will just end up reducing the gameplay options to cope with the reduced income. In fact, if you play on one of those servers, its likely to hurt you.
Honestly, people keep agreeing with Mojang, seemingly without thinking. They just think "I don't like pay to win" without actually understanding how servers work, how they can make their own server, how they can join one of the thousand (or more) other servers that DON'T offer payed perks, etc. This doesn't benefit you all, this just hurts the community.
So, you are not personally impacted AT ALL by servers staying pay for perk. You have just essentially explained my point.
That said, why do you even care if someone makes a living off of running a Minecraft server? Clearly it doesn't affect you in either a positive or negative fashion. In fact, I haven't really heard ANY arguments from anyone supporting Mojang's decision that has really explained how its a bad thing for people to make a living doing something they love. Are you jealous? I mean, I honestly cannot think of any other reason you would sit here and bash the people who are legitimately affected by this change when you're not.
Please explain...
Minecraft was also never intended initially to have pistons, someone from the community created them and Mojang implemented them into the base game. The community created that feature. Same goes for Ender Chests and Horses. So because Minecraft was never intended to have them initially, they shouldn't exist?
The community drives this game. Some of the most popular servers in the Minecraft community have created some of the most popular additions to the game (MineZ to name one). Many things were never thought about initially, but they happened and for the better. These servers create jobs, create entertainment, create new content that may find its way into the base game or realms, etc.
I'll post the same question to you as I did to the other user I quoted...How does restricting servers benefit you personally? You've always had the option to play, it doesn't take anything away from you. It doesn't benefit you either as many of those popular servers will just end up reducing the gameplay options to cope with the reduced income. In fact, if you play on one of those servers, its likely to hurt you.
Honestly, people keep agreeing with Mojang, seemingly without thinking. They just think "I don't like pay to win" without actually understanding how servers work, how they can make their own server, how they can join one of the thousand (or more) other servers that DON'T offer payed perks, etc. This doesn't benefit you all, this just hurts the community.
It is clear Mojang doesn't care or want people profiting Minecraft with regards to gameplay content. I am not jealous because I can make as much money as doing traditional work that fits to my interest instead of relying on a game that isn't mine to make money for me. I don't bash people but simply remind them that they do not own minecraft and they are throwing tantrums at mojang in an attempt for mojang to cave in to their spoiled desire of making money.
Again, this is a reminiscent when slave owners(server owners) rebelled against the government(mojang) when the government tried to forbid slavery(EULA forbidding pay to win) because slave owners don't see anything wrong owning slaves and making them work because it was considered business for many generations(pay to win business for years). If you know american history, you should know what happened to that rebellion and the modern view of people about slavery.
I've slept on this twice now; my views on this topic have changed somewhat, based both on what I've read and what I've been thinking the past couple of days.
Things I realize:
-Mojang is within their rights to protect their IP (duh)
-There are servers out there that charge ridiculous sums for ridiculous things (but see below for further thoughts)
-The rules of the EULA didn't technically get worse, they got better
~That doesn't make them what I'd like them to be now, either
-There are plugin developers who have spent months and months (no exaggeration there, either) developing completely unique content for their mingame servers. This content may or may not have any sort of relationship with Minecraft's core features
~Said content still requires Minecraft to run, in the end (what an unfortunate predicament that seems to be now)
-We don't get the final say in what Mojang does with their EULA. Mojang does.
Things I wish other people would realize:
-Not every server is a Survival Multiplayer server
-Not all Survival servers charge you for things like diamonds
~Those that do most certainly cannot have a dedicated following committed to them
-The EULA isn't changing much. The "new EULA" is not what people should be blaming. Both the new and the old EULA disallowed microtransactions and other forms of moneymaking from servers
-We DO NOT want the old EULA back. It was worse than this one. People need to quit asking for it to come back. When people say this, they really should be asking for Mojang to go back to not enforcing their EULA, or for them to go to a newer, better EULA
-Big servers are not going to be unaffected by the "new" EULA. They will not offer the same kits and gameplay that they did in the past when everyone has access to it. Some of the balance in the "buy/unlock-able" kits was their rarity. When that's gone, either everyone will choose the best kit (and then there goes varied gameplay), or some kits will die to keep things balanced. Same will probably go for other "paid features"
Bad arguments that are FOR the EULA:
"People have already paid for the game, why would we want to pay again for certain features of the game?"
or "Yay, no more 'Pay-to-win' servers! I hated those."
Response: At least with most servers as they are now, you can get on them and play some portion of their content for free. Most minigame servers that are decent will only charge you for certain (balanced) kits. That means they're not charging you for any basic parts of the game, and you can at least have some fun playing on the server without spending any money. When people start using one of Mojang's legal alternatives, though, you'll have to pay before you're able to access any of the server's features. Mojang's solution to "Pay-to-win" servers is to make them "Pay-to-play-at-all" servers.
"This will help solve all those complaints Mojang was getting for people charging ridiculous amounts of cash for things you should get for free."
Response: Sure, this will probably fix that issue. The new issue I could see arising from the changes to the EULA is servers legally charging ridiculous amounts of cash for people to now get into their scam server, which they promise the small children will be the most epic server they've ever been on, if they'd only steal their parent's card and pay them $200 per month. The server is then unplayable because of the amount of ad-spam upon logging in. They're fixing one problem, and opening their doors wide for a different problem that's actually legal this time.
"[This thing I've heard a couple of times about $1 subscription fees still working for servers that get millions of users monthly if 90% of the community "gets mad" and doesn't subscribe]"
Response: You speak of a 90% decrease in the population of a huge community like it's nothing. These people may either go find another smaller server (populating it more, which may or may not be a good thing), or they may quit Minecraft altogether, seeing that most other servers now charge a subscription fee. What percent of Minecraft's overall fanbase will leave Minecraft altogether, do you think? On another note, these huge servers tend to get tons and tons of traffic where people are there to simply try out the server. "Millions of users" doesn't refer to the number of dedicated users, a number which will probably drop if these huge servers start charging subscription fees, no matter how cheap. People keep calling these servers "Pay-to-win," but if you actually had to pay to win, like you would if you had to pay a subscription fee, these servers wouldn't get nearly as much support as they do now.
Bad arguments AGAINST the EULA:
"This new EULA will change everything for the worst!"
Response: This is a bit drastic. Like I said, this will fix some problems within the community, and create others. That's kind of how things work. Once again, it's not the "New EULA" that's to blame here, if we can even blame a EULA for our problems. Many people have said, and I tend to agree with them, that our main problem here stems from Mojang allowing people to break their EULA for so long in the first place. The "old" EULA was not any better than the "new" EULA. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd choose the "new" one. We can't blame the EULA changes for anything at all. The EULA has only gotten better. The only problem most servers now face is enforcement of the EULA.
"Mojang doesn't have the manpower to enforce this."
Response: You don't think, with millions of copies of their game sold, that Mojang has the means to acquire the manpower? Mojang has said many times that they do indeed have the power to enforce this, and that they most definitely plan on it.
Final notes:
People against the EULA:
Please realize that this is not the end of the world, or of Minecraft. The community will go on, even if it shrinks substantially. Realize that the old EULA was not better and quit asking for it back. That has been my main source of irritation in the arguments against the EULA. Please know that this is not a war, and you don't need to lose your cool over words that small people type at their keyboard.
People for the EULA:
You've pulled me into a state of neutrality, here. Please do try to keep an open mind though (obviously I'm not speaking to all of you). Please realize that just because a legal document says something is illegal doesn't mean said thing is a totally horrible thing to be put to the torch. Please realize that the EULA does not affect only the "bad apples" and that not every server that has microtransactions is survival and will be charging players for a diamond sword. Please realize that if minigame servers had been ripping people off, they wouldn't have gotten as much support as they did.
Keep up the good discussion, people, and do away with the bad, please. Please note that I'm not trying to condescend with any of my statements above. All I'm trying to do here is point out flaws in both sides of the arguments, in order to improve and refine things on both sides.
Thanks for reading, to those who did. Have a nice day, all.
It is clear Mojang doesn't care or want people profiting Minecraft with regards to gameplay content. I am not jealous because I can make as much money as doing traditional work that fits to my interest instead of relying on a game that isn't mine to make money for me. I don't bash people but simply remind them that they do not own minecraft and they are throwing tantrums at mojang in an attempt for mojang to cave in to their spoiled desire of making money.
Again, this is a reminiscent when slave owners(server owners) rebelled against the government(mojang) when the government tried to forbid slavery(EULA forbidding pay to win) because slave owners don't see anything wrong owning slaves and making them work because it was considered business for many generations(pay to win business for years). If you know american history, you should know what happened to that rebellion and the modern view of people about slavery.
Again you use something that is an obvious injustice to people (and did affect many people negatively) to justify something that affects noone negatively (at least that's what I get from the arguments I've read and your constant ignoring of my direct questioning). This doesn't really work.
Its not even a parallel as server owners are not suppressing anyone, the aren't subjugating people and making them do stuff against their will. People choose, willingly, to join a server and accept the environment of said server. Mojang isn't stopping server owners from enslaving people, its damaging a willing, cooperative, community. This is more akin to the government getting together and outlawing baseball, just because they didn't like it. People would be upset and rightly so.
You also seem to not understand that you are indeed insulting people, by saying that a civil discussion is somehow "throwing a tantrum." I don't believe that I have as of yet stated anything in an irrational way. I've simply been trying to get someone to explain how Mojang limiting servers ACTUALLY BENEFITS the community. So far, people ignore that question (including yourself) and just claim "because Mojang has the right" or some such. The government technically has the right to outlaw baseball, but it wouldn't be right for them to do so.
I think the new EULA is a step in the right direction in minimizing Pay to Win on servers, especially on those where profit rather than user experience is a priority. However, the fact that the EULA makes minimal exceptions for good, noteworthy servers such as Mineplex and Hypixel is problematic. While I do think that ranked players, especially in Hypixel's QuakeCraft, can be overpowered, the approach against Pay to Win features for these servers should minimize buffs but still allow for reasonable server income. In additon, small servers trying to make the money necessary to get started with development may suffer if they cannot obtain funds with reasonable perks for reasonable prices. In ways, the EULA is both good and bad: it stifles monetary "god mode" features in profit-oriented servers but limits developer incentives and potential for growth in servers where buffs only need to be minimized.
Either way, I still don't think the EULA is the END OF MINECRAFT. It's just a somewhat inefficient way of minimizing Pay to Win server issues that attacks both good an bad servers equally.
Think of it, you're a new play who just bought the game
That player sometimes skips the Single Player Experience that has everything unlocked par default.
So that player from day one is, as you can put it. Dissatisfied with the game for being in favor with other players.
All Mojang are getting at is to let everyone build up the same amount of resources as each other and to actually play the god damn game like it was meant to be played. Think of it as a way to demonetize something like youtube but to leave such as letting a server owner enough money to pay for the server and maybe profit along the way.
Except this doesn't work. If a new player starts on an establish hardcore server where the server owner has modified the tech tree to make better materials way harder to acquire overall, the new user will still be discouraged as many established players will have things he/she does not and cannot acquire for a long time. The limitation on selling only makes this worse by not allowing the new user to pay to catch up quicker.
Another thing is that in order to have mega-servers, no selling perks is likely to harm the ability of a server to keep up with costs. They will end up downgrading their features to cope, laying people off, etc. Its honestly not a positive thing. In the end, if you don't like a server, you really shouldn't play on it. There are tons of alternatives.
I think the new EULA is a step in the right direction in minimizing Pay to Win on servers, especially on those where profit rather than user experience is a priority. However, the fact that the EULA makes minimal exceptions for good, noteworthy servers such as Mineplex and Hypixel is problematic. While I do think that ranked players, especially in Hypixel's QuakeCraft, can be overpowered, the approach against Pay to Win features for these servers should minimize buffs but still allow for reasonable server income. In additon, small servers trying to make the money necessary to get started with development may suffer if they cannot obtain funds with reasonable perks for reasonable prices. In ways, the EULA is both good and bad: it stifles monetary "god mode" features in profit-oriented servers but limits developer incentives and potential for growth in servers where buffs only need to be minimized.
I agree that its a step in the right direction in that it makes it legal to do some things which were illegal (technically, but not practically) before the change. However, its not enough. The limitations on what people are allowed to do only hurt the community. As for the prices a server charge...what you find reasonable may differ from someone else. That's the beauty of their being so many servers. If you don't like the features/prices of one, you can always choose another (or make your own).
All in all, this isn't a good reason to restrict server owners either...as its your opinion vs. the server community. Obviously the server community doesn't hate things as they are or the big servers wouldn't be big.
Again you use something that is an obvious injustice to people (and did affect many people negatively) to justify something that affects noone negatively (at least that's what I get from the arguments I've read and your constant ignoring of my direct questioning). This doesn't really work.
Its not even a parallel as server owners are not suppressing anyone, the aren't subjugating people and making them do stuff against their will. People choose, willingly, to join a server and accept the environment of said server. Mojang isn't stopping server owners from enslaving people, its damaging a willing, cooperative, community. This is more akin to the government getting together and outlawing baseball, just because they didn't like it. People would be upset and rightly so.
You also seem to not understand that you are indeed insulting people, by saying that a civil discussion is somehow "throwing a tantrum." I don't believe that I have as of yet stated anything in an irrational way. I've simply been trying to get someone to explain how Mojang limiting servers ACTUALLY BENEFITS the community. So far, people ignore that question (including yourself) and just claim "because Mojang has the right" or some such. The government technically has the right to outlaw baseball, but it wouldn't be right for them to do so.
You still don't get my point. You are trying too hard to make exact similarity of slavery and pay to win and always fail to see the point. The point here is, in the eyes of mojang, pay to win is bad and in your eyes it is good. Ultimately, this is mojang's game and they are free to decide what is bad and what is good. If they think pay to win server is good, then why would they stop it in the first place?
I am referring to people joining the bandwagon on why EULA is bad without knowing why as throwing tantrums. The only thing they know is server owner are whining so EULA must be bad and they should support it. Mojang knows their game more than you do so any action they take they know the risk of it and it seems that the reward is greater than the risk in their eyes so they are pushing it. Lastly, it is up to the community if they want minecraft to fail by actively destroying the community because they don't get what they want with the EULA. I would prefer the community to build what's left instead of crying over spilled milk.
However, its not enough. The limitations on what people are allowed to do only hurt the community. As for the prices a server charge...what you find reasonable may differ from someone else. That's the beauty of their being so many servers. If you don't like the features/prices of one, you can always choose another (or make your own). All in all, this isn't a good reason to restrict server owners either...as its your opinion vs. the server community.
I do agree that the complete removal of paid perks by the EULA is excessive, as I mentioned in my previous post. This is too much limitation on what people can do in the community and it is harmful. However, I still believe that some restrictions should be in place for servers where a select few "VIP" members can repeatedly dominate in minigames and limit how well non-ranked players can perform. I don't think that paid perks should be removed, but the extent to which these perks affect game play should be limited.
What I find highly amusing is: You have some of the larger servers (who have their own launcher, which allows non premium users to connect to it). These servers have the ranks, titles, kits, etc. Players can afford to donate to the server to acquire the ranks, titles, kits, or have someone do it for them, bet yet can't afford to purchase a legit copy of the game.
So the server owners are making a profit off a game, which allows players who didn't even purchase it to play and they make profit off it.
These are the type of servers I feel they should really crack down on.
I normally butt out on things like this but I feel the need to voice my opinion.
@Mojang - I fear you may be about to drive away your best modders, who in which are keeping MC alive for you. I wouldn't have played MC all these years if it wasn't for the mods, because lets face it, vanilla MC just doesn't cut the mustard. The future looks very bleak indeed...I'll be very disappointed if the EULA rewrite/clarification ends up how it is currently drafted...
I do agree that the complete removal of paid perks by the EULA is excessive, as I mentioned in my previous post. This is too much limitation on what people can do in the community and it is harmful. However, I still believe that some restrictions should be in place for servers where a select few "VIP" members can repeatedly dominate in minigames and limit how well non-ranked players can perform. I don't think that paid perks should be removed, but the extent to which these perks affect game play should be limited.
This has been my opinion as well. Everything people are arguing is so case-by-case it's hard to come up with solutions. For example:
A server has a spleef minigame. Digging is instantaneous for everyone. Fair.
Said spleef minigame has a bomb item you can purchase for a dollar that will destroy a small number of blocks. Not fair; only paid can obtain.
Said bomb item can be obtained by winning coins in matches. Fair, non-paying players can obtain.
It's difficult to come up with actual solutions and changes that would satisfy everyone here.
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[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
If a server is allowing people to pirate the game, then it is already illegal. I have personally never seen any of these servers.
there are servers like this, one is called "SkaiaCraft' (homestuck based). Personally i could care less if people pirate,l I used to use cracked, because My parents would never buy me premium and i had no way of getting cash myself (tax on a 27 dollar game is expensive where I live) . Luckily i had a friend who gave me their premium account, but it got hacked
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Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
When people donate, they should deserve their rewards, not everybody. This will make it more difficult and pointless for servers. Lot's of servers will become corrupt and lack of funds, less server use would take place, and I think that it's only fair to give the giver his gift.
If a server is allowing people to pirate the game, then it is already illegal. I have personally never seen any of these servers.
80% of italian servers are like that ( cracked with cracked launcher ). There is a big fuss going on in the italian comunity about going against the eula "all at once" serving the original jar but modified to serve your own authentication sistem, many servers owners are stating that if they do it in the many mojang will not be able to pursue them all, while I'm really against it I've been called "a stup1d old m0r0n not able to make money with games" and muted/banned on many comunities ( not the 2 nation wide one but only the "per server" communities).
I hope one day there will be a law forbidding under 18 to play online games.
80% of italian servers are like that ( cracked with cracked launcher ). There is a big fuss going on in the italian comunity about going against the eula "all at once" serving the original jar but modified to serve your own authentication sistem, many servers owners are stating that if they do it in the many mojang will not be able to pursue them all, while I'm really against it I've been called "a stup1d old m0r0n not able to make money with games" and muted/banned on many comunities ( not the 2 nation wide one but only the "per server" communities).
I hope one day there will be a law forbidding under 18 to play online games.
that would be impossible to check..
10 year olds play call of duty\
and the ESRB says "Online Interactions Not Rated" on ALL online games.
hw will you check if someone is over 18 on a game? credit cards? Kids will steal them from their parents like they do with minecraft
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Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
that would be impossible to check..
10 year olds play call of duty\
and the ESRB says "Online Interactions Not Rated" on ALL online games.
hw will you check if someone is over 18 on a game? credit cards? Kids will steal them from their parents like they do with minecraft
Yes...I know its impossible, but is not illegal to dream, is it? xD
I have one question about a part of this EULA to do with
Would it be okay to lets say make it so that a person could buy a sort of "Bomb" that when exploded dropped a bunch of items , possible gameplay-affecting items , that everyone but the person who brought the said "Bomb" could pick up?
super easy to exploit
*user 1 throws bomb*
*user 2 who is a friend of user 1 picks stuff up*
*user 2 puts it in chest for user 1*
*user 1 grabs items from chest*
exploited in less than 1 minute
*
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Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
I'm just going to paste this comment I saw in the thread about the current snapshot.
It kind of further confuses my stance on things, by bringing server software back into question.
Other than that, though, I can say I agree with a few of the points in here, and I think it's a good argument anyways.
You guys can feel free to pick it apart, agree with it, disagree with it, or ignore it as you see fit. I don't really have a response to it right now.
Yeah! Finally a snapshot with an early look at the wonderful mod API! Nope, not even close. I'm always happy to see bugs squashed, of course, and I have to be honest and say that Mojang has done a pretty good job of squashing them. Too bad almost all the mods are stuck back on 1.7.2, huh?
Anyone else feel like things are unraveling?
Recently, a spokesman for Mojang released a statement about what server owners can and cannot do. Mojang (without apparently consulting a really good lawyer or even international law https://mojang.com/2...e-follow-up-qa/).
I've read through it, and compared it to some of the laws of the countries involved. My opinion? It's unenforceable, possibly illegal, and certainly divisive. The Mojang spokesman noted that the adjustments to the EULA were an attempt to counter-act the greed of "Pay to Win" servers, charging real money for items of negligible in game value. This begs the obvious question: how does one "win" a sandbox game?
The software which allows most multiplayer servers run, relies in turn on another program which, while capable of decompiling Mojang code, does not belong to Mojang, and has been recognized by Mojang as being the intellectual property of the authors. Truthfully, it could be adjusted and used to decompile and mod other games besides Minecraft; it does not require Minecraft to run. The same thing applies to API such as Bukit and Forge. But I hear you say 'doesn't Mojang have a right to enforce ownership of their game code? Shouldn't decompiling the code be against the EULA? The answer is yes, but it's a sore spot. You see, Mojang has supported a modding community, which is only possible because they have allowed the decompiling of their code. Why did they do this? Well, the game doesn't have an API, and so they had to tolerate the potential violation of their EULA so that a third party could provide that service. The decompiling has been allowed for years now. You can't have it both ways, and if you think about how that would look in court, you will realize how unenforceable the whole thing is. Remember how silly we all thought it was when Mojang was sued for using the word "Scrolls" in a game title? This is the same type of silly, only on Mojang's part, this time.
I hate to say it, but when Notch moved on to other projects, Minecraft took a turn for the worse. The current crew has managed to 1) make numerous multi-year promises which they have not been able to fulfill 2) Split the community between those running vanilla games, and those running modded games 3) Fractured even the modded community by changing the structure of the game, which resulted in a huge number of modders leaving the game entirely 4) Implemented a UUID system which was not needed, should not have been done, and has created no end of trouble 5) Attempted to implement a new EULA which is not enforceable, unlawful in numerous jurisdictions, a violation of the intellectual property rights of numerous software architects, and is mostly a cover up for the fact that the UUID system is likely to really screw things up, and 6) has put most of their effort into highly profitable mobile devices and schemes, which are more limited, and less open to modification.
Like it or not, the glory days are over. Sure, there are more people buying the game, but it's pretty clearly a slowing trend even now (at least, if the numbers reported on the Minecraft page are accurate). If things continue to fall apart at this rate, I think the PC/MAC community for this game will be lucky to survive another two years.
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Curse PremiumSo, you are not personally impacted AT ALL by servers staying pay for perk. You have just essentially explained my point.
That said, why do you even care if someone makes a living off of running a Minecraft server? Clearly it doesn't affect you in either a positive or negative fashion. In fact, I haven't really heard ANY arguments from anyone supporting Mojang's decision that has really explained how its a bad thing for people to make a living doing something they love. Are you jealous? I mean, I honestly cannot think of any other reason you would sit here and bash the people who are legitimately affected by this change when you're not.
Please explain...
Minecraft was also never intended initially to have pistons, someone from the community created them and Mojang implemented them into the base game. The community created that feature. Same goes for Ender Chests and Horses. So because Minecraft was never intended to have them initially, they shouldn't exist?
The community drives this game. Some of the most popular servers in the Minecraft community have created some of the most popular additions to the game (MineZ to name one). Many things were never thought about initially, but they happened and for the better. These servers create jobs, create entertainment, create new content that may find its way into the base game or realms, etc.
I'll post the same question to you as I did to the other user I quoted...How does restricting servers benefit you personally? You've always had the option to play, it doesn't take anything away from you. It doesn't benefit you either as many of those popular servers will just end up reducing the gameplay options to cope with the reduced income. In fact, if you play on one of those servers, its likely to hurt you.
Honestly, people keep agreeing with Mojang, seemingly without thinking. They just think "I don't like pay to win" without actually understanding how servers work, how they can make their own server, how they can join one of the thousand (or more) other servers that DON'T offer payed perks, etc. This doesn't benefit you all, this just hurts the community.
It is clear Mojang doesn't care or want people profiting Minecraft with regards to gameplay content. I am not jealous because I can make as much money as doing traditional work that fits to my interest instead of relying on a game that isn't mine to make money for me. I don't bash people but simply remind them that they do not own minecraft and they are throwing tantrums at mojang in an attempt for mojang to cave in to their spoiled desire of making money.
Again, this is a reminiscent when slave owners(server owners) rebelled against the government(mojang) when the government tried to forbid slavery(EULA forbidding pay to win) because slave owners don't see anything wrong owning slaves and making them work because it was considered business for many generations(pay to win business for years). If you know american history, you should know what happened to that rebellion and the modern view of people about slavery.
Things I realize:
-Mojang is within their rights to protect their IP (duh)
-There are servers out there that charge ridiculous sums for ridiculous things (but see below for further thoughts)
-The rules of the EULA didn't technically get worse, they got better
~That doesn't make them what I'd like them to be now, either
-There are plugin developers who have spent months and months (no exaggeration there, either) developing completely unique content for their mingame servers. This content may or may not have any sort of relationship with Minecraft's core features
~Said content still requires Minecraft to run, in the end (what an unfortunate predicament that seems to be now)
-We don't get the final say in what Mojang does with their EULA. Mojang does.
Things I wish other people would realize:
-Not every server is a Survival Multiplayer server
-Not all Survival servers charge you for things like diamonds
~Those that do most certainly cannot have a dedicated following committed to them
-The EULA isn't changing much. The "new EULA" is not what people should be blaming. Both the new and the old EULA disallowed microtransactions and other forms of moneymaking from servers
-We DO NOT want the old EULA back. It was worse than this one. People need to quit asking for it to come back. When people say this, they really should be asking for Mojang to go back to not enforcing their EULA, or for them to go to a newer, better EULA
-Big servers are not going to be unaffected by the "new" EULA. They will not offer the same kits and gameplay that they did in the past when everyone has access to it. Some of the balance in the "buy/unlock-able" kits was their rarity. When that's gone, either everyone will choose the best kit (and then there goes varied gameplay), or some kits will die to keep things balanced. Same will probably go for other "paid features"
Bad arguments that are FOR the EULA:
"People have already paid for the game, why would we want to pay again for certain features of the game?"
or "Yay, no more 'Pay-to-win' servers! I hated those."
Response: At least with most servers as they are now, you can get on them and play some portion of their content for free. Most minigame servers that are decent will only charge you for certain (balanced) kits. That means they're not charging you for any basic parts of the game, and you can at least have some fun playing on the server without spending any money. When people start using one of Mojang's legal alternatives, though, you'll have to pay before you're able to access any of the server's features. Mojang's solution to "Pay-to-win" servers is to make them "Pay-to-play-at-all" servers.
"This will help solve all those complaints Mojang was getting for people charging ridiculous amounts of cash for things you should get for free."
Response: Sure, this will probably fix that issue. The new issue I could see arising from the changes to the EULA is servers legally charging ridiculous amounts of cash for people to now get into their scam server, which they promise the small children will be the most epic server they've ever been on, if they'd only steal their parent's card and pay them $200 per month. The server is then unplayable because of the amount of ad-spam upon logging in. They're fixing one problem, and opening their doors wide for a different problem that's actually legal this time.
"[This thing I've heard a couple of times about $1 subscription fees still working for servers that get millions of users monthly if 90% of the community "gets mad" and doesn't subscribe]"
Response: You speak of a 90% decrease in the population of a huge community like it's nothing. These people may either go find another smaller server (populating it more, which may or may not be a good thing), or they may quit Minecraft altogether, seeing that most other servers now charge a subscription fee. What percent of Minecraft's overall fanbase will leave Minecraft altogether, do you think? On another note, these huge servers tend to get tons and tons of traffic where people are there to simply try out the server. "Millions of users" doesn't refer to the number of dedicated users, a number which will probably drop if these huge servers start charging subscription fees, no matter how cheap. People keep calling these servers "Pay-to-win," but if you actually had to pay to win, like you would if you had to pay a subscription fee, these servers wouldn't get nearly as much support as they do now.
Bad arguments AGAINST the EULA:
"This new EULA will change everything for the worst!"
Response: This is a bit drastic. Like I said, this will fix some problems within the community, and create others. That's kind of how things work. Once again, it's not the "New EULA" that's to blame here, if we can even blame a EULA for our problems. Many people have said, and I tend to agree with them, that our main problem here stems from Mojang allowing people to break their EULA for so long in the first place. The "old" EULA was not any better than the "new" EULA. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd choose the "new" one. We can't blame the EULA changes for anything at all. The EULA has only gotten better. The only problem most servers now face is enforcement of the EULA.
"Mojang doesn't have the manpower to enforce this."
Response: You don't think, with millions of copies of their game sold, that Mojang has the means to acquire the manpower? Mojang has said many times that they do indeed have the power to enforce this, and that they most definitely plan on it.
Final notes:
People against the EULA:
Please realize that this is not the end of the world, or of Minecraft. The community will go on, even if it shrinks substantially. Realize that the old EULA was not better and quit asking for it back. That has been my main source of irritation in the arguments against the EULA. Please know that this is not a war, and you don't need to lose your cool over words that small people type at their keyboard.
People for the EULA:
You've pulled me into a state of neutrality, here. Please do try to keep an open mind though (obviously I'm not speaking to all of you). Please realize that just because a legal document says something is illegal doesn't mean said thing is a totally horrible thing to be put to the torch. Please realize that the EULA does not affect only the "bad apples" and that not every server that has microtransactions is survival and will be charging players for a diamond sword. Please realize that if minigame servers had been ripping people off, they wouldn't have gotten as much support as they did.
Keep up the good discussion, people, and do away with the bad, please. Please note that I'm not trying to condescend with any of my statements above. All I'm trying to do here is point out flaws in both sides of the arguments, in order to improve and refine things on both sides.
Thanks for reading, to those who did. Have a nice day, all.
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Curse PremiumAgain you use something that is an obvious injustice to people (and did affect many people negatively) to justify something that affects noone negatively (at least that's what I get from the arguments I've read and your constant ignoring of my direct questioning). This doesn't really work.
Its not even a parallel as server owners are not suppressing anyone, the aren't subjugating people and making them do stuff against their will. People choose, willingly, to join a server and accept the environment of said server. Mojang isn't stopping server owners from enslaving people, its damaging a willing, cooperative, community. This is more akin to the government getting together and outlawing baseball, just because they didn't like it. People would be upset and rightly so.
You also seem to not understand that you are indeed insulting people, by saying that a civil discussion is somehow "throwing a tantrum." I don't believe that I have as of yet stated anything in an irrational way. I've simply been trying to get someone to explain how Mojang limiting servers ACTUALLY BENEFITS the community. So far, people ignore that question (including yourself) and just claim "because Mojang has the right" or some such. The government technically has the right to outlaw baseball, but it wouldn't be right for them to do so.
Either way, I still don't think the EULA is the END OF MINECRAFT. It's just a somewhat inefficient way of minimizing Pay to Win server issues that attacks both good an bad servers equally.
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Curse PremiumExcept this doesn't work. If a new player starts on an establish hardcore server where the server owner has modified the tech tree to make better materials way harder to acquire overall, the new user will still be discouraged as many established players will have things he/she does not and cannot acquire for a long time. The limitation on selling only makes this worse by not allowing the new user to pay to catch up quicker.
Another thing is that in order to have mega-servers, no selling perks is likely to harm the ability of a server to keep up with costs. They will end up downgrading their features to cope, laying people off, etc. Its honestly not a positive thing. In the end, if you don't like a server, you really shouldn't play on it. There are tons of alternatives.
I agree that its a step in the right direction in that it makes it legal to do some things which were illegal (technically, but not practically) before the change. However, its not enough. The limitations on what people are allowed to do only hurt the community. As for the prices a server charge...what you find reasonable may differ from someone else. That's the beauty of their being so many servers. If you don't like the features/prices of one, you can always choose another (or make your own).
All in all, this isn't a good reason to restrict server owners either...as its your opinion vs. the server community. Obviously the server community doesn't hate things as they are or the big servers wouldn't be big.
You still don't get my point. You are trying too hard to make exact similarity of slavery and pay to win and always fail to see the point. The point here is, in the eyes of mojang, pay to win is bad and in your eyes it is good. Ultimately, this is mojang's game and they are free to decide what is bad and what is good. If they think pay to win server is good, then why would they stop it in the first place?
I am referring to people joining the bandwagon on why EULA is bad without knowing why as throwing tantrums. The only thing they know is server owner are whining so EULA must be bad and they should support it. Mojang knows their game more than you do so any action they take they know the risk of it and it seems that the reward is greater than the risk in their eyes so they are pushing it. Lastly, it is up to the community if they want minecraft to fail by actively destroying the community because they don't get what they want with the EULA. I would prefer the community to build what's left instead of crying over spilled milk.
I do agree that the complete removal of paid perks by the EULA is excessive, as I mentioned in my previous post. This is too much limitation on what people can do in the community and it is harmful. However, I still believe that some restrictions should be in place for servers where a select few "VIP" members can repeatedly dominate in minigames and limit how well non-ranked players can perform. I don't think that paid perks should be removed, but the extent to which these perks affect game play should be limited.
So the server owners are making a profit off a game, which allows players who didn't even purchase it to play and they make profit off it.
These are the type of servers I feel they should really crack down on.
@Mojang - I fear you may be about to drive away your best modders, who in which are keeping MC alive for you. I wouldn't have played MC all these years if it wasn't for the mods, because lets face it, vanilla MC just doesn't cut the mustard. The future looks very bleak indeed...I'll be very disappointed if the EULA rewrite/clarification ends up how it is currently drafted...
This has been my opinion as well. Everything people are arguing is so case-by-case it's hard to come up with solutions. For example:
- A server has a spleef minigame. Digging is instantaneous for everyone. Fair.
- Said spleef minigame has a bomb item you can purchase for a dollar that will destroy a small number of blocks. Not fair; only paid can obtain.
- Said bomb item can be obtained by winning coins in matches. Fair, non-paying players can obtain.
It's difficult to come up with actual solutions and changes that would satisfy everyone here.[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
there are servers like this, one is called "SkaiaCraft' (homestuck based). Personally i could care less if people pirate,l I used to use cracked, because My parents would never buy me premium and i had no way of getting cash myself (tax on a 27 dollar game is expensive where I live) . Luckily i had a friend who gave me their premium account, but it got hacked
Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
80% of italian servers are like that ( cracked with cracked launcher ). There is a big fuss going on in the italian comunity about going against the eula "all at once" serving the original jar but modified to serve your own authentication sistem, many servers owners are stating that if they do it in the many mojang will not be able to pursue them all, while I'm really against it I've been called "a stup1d old m0r0n not able to make money with games" and muted/banned on many comunities ( not the 2 nation wide one but only the "per server" communities).
I hope one day there will be a law forbidding under 18 to play online games.
that would be impossible to check..
10 year olds play call of duty\
and the ESRB says "Online Interactions Not Rated" on ALL online games.
hw will you check if someone is over 18 on a game? credit cards? Kids will steal them from their parents like they do with minecraft
Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
Yes...I know its impossible, but is not illegal to dream, is it? xD
super easy to exploit
*user 1 throws bomb*
*user 2 who is a friend of user 1 picks stuff up*
*user 2 puts it in chest for user 1*
*user 1 grabs items from chest*
exploited in less than 1 minute
*
Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
It kind of further confuses my stance on things, by bringing server software back into question.
Other than that, though, I can say I agree with a few of the points in here, and I think it's a good argument anyways.
You guys can feel free to pick it apart, agree with it, disagree with it, or ignore it as you see fit. I don't really have a response to it right now.