Xray is infamous for allowing people to accrue massive amounts of ores, as well as find other peoples bases with ease on PvP servers. It completely breaks the concept of searching for ores, and makes hiding ones goods on an anarchy server impossible. A texture pack that so utterly destroys the integrity of multiplayer SMP servers shouldn't be allowed. So, why does Mojang allow them? There are plugins that counter xray. None of them work in entirety, or if they do, they eat up precious ram and influence gameplay in odd ways (ore obfuscation). Certainly they can't ban texture packs, or disable them, but with something so game breaking, it's irresponsible to not allow SMP servers some ability to disable or combat them.
What do you propose to be the end-all for x-ray packs?
If it was that easy to come up with something to stop it, it would have most likely be done by now, I would guess.
I may be wrong and there might be more to it than that, but I don't really know.
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I do not know if it is possible, but I think that is somebody programed a plugin that scans the client for cheat mods, that would certainly help. Wouldn't help with the texture packs much, but oh well.
As long as the server transmits where the blocks are, there will be hacks for finding them. There might be a plugin that sends those as stone when they're not exposed to air/visible to anyone, but I've heard it causes a lot of lag with a large amount of people.
There is plugin for bukkit witch ll obscure all not exposed blocks and ores , it make use from x-ray useless.
The blocks ll look all the same until the player ll not uncover them .
Don't know if it is updated
Warning: I know at least one of these sorts of plugin had a very serious bug. It didn't just obscure the blocks or make them appear to be something else, it actually left entire chunks entirely devoid of ore for some reason.
To the people saying "I don't think there's a way to fix this": There is absolutely no logical reason for the server to send the client data on blocks the player can't see, with the exception of block update information for things like redstone circuits. Basically, the only reason that x-ray texture packs work at all is because no one at Mojang has ever bothered to optimize the server-side code to prevent this sort of data from being transmitted to the player until the player can actually observe the blocks.
Well first of all, Xray/invisible texture packs are easy to hide from servers. The only thing a server knows is what it needs to - your position, items, etc., so it can tell what mods you're using. But rendering is all client-side, so your texture pack does nothing until right before it hits your screen.
It might be possible for Notch to hard-code in opaqueness for certain blocks or such. But this would hurt people who use it for private purposes, and not to mention it would probably make texture packs more difficult and/or coding.
So no. You'll just have to try to catch cheaters by what they do (aka the 1x1 hole straight down to a dungeon)
You can't have all clients wait for the server to send them each new block to be rendered, that would be insane.
That has nothing to do with blocks people can't see. The only way I could see it causing any lag would be a large TNT explosion on the ground with a lot of people gathered around it, since the server would have to figure out which blocks were visible to which players and send the information along to the clients.
I guess I should be more specific? There's no logical reason for the server to send the client information on blocks underground which the player can't see.
It may not be "logical", but it's not an issue of logic, it's an issue of what's practical.
In your example, if the server doesn't send underground blocks to the client then if a player falls down a shaft they will fall into an empty abyss if the server can't send them all the required blocks quick enough (which is pretty likely). You can't just omit blocks the player can't see, because what the player can see is changing all the time, and that will often happen quicker than the server can send them the new data.
Except they would be able to see down an empty shaft because it's already exposed, so there would be no new data for the server to send the player.
I'm not talking about an issue of render distance, but rather visibility.
Frankly, I don't think it would be quite as hard on the server as you seem to think it is. That's fine, we have differing opinions. However it is really the only way to stop x-ray texture packs in a reliable manner.
Warning: I know at least one of these sorts of plugin had a very serious bug. It didn't just obscure the blocks or make them appear to be something else, it actually left entire chunks entirely devoid of ore for some reason.
To the people saying "I don't think there's a way to fix this": There is absolutely no logical reason for the server to send the client data on blocks the player can't see, with the exception of block update information for things like redstone circuits. Basically, the only reason that x-ray texture packs work at all is because no one at Mojang has ever bothered to optimize the server-side code to prevent this sort of data from being transmitted to the player until the player can actually observe the blocks.
I actually remember that one from when they were trying to prevent Team aVolition from griefing. Poor Reddit server owner had to start the entire map three times.
I actually remember that one from when they were trying to prevent Team aVolition from griefing. Poor Reddit server owner had to start the entire map three times.
Yea, my favorite server had a problem with the same plugin. The Reddit guy wasn't very smart though since there is a Bukkit plugin admins can use to regenerate ore in a selected area (basically so you can have a small, finite map but not worry about resources running out). I'm glad we had an admin willing to give up a couple hours to inspect populated chunks and regenerate ores in the chunks where ore had been wiped.
Yea, my favorite server had a problem with the same plugin. The Reddit guy wasn't very smart though since there is a Bukkit plugin admins can use to regenerate ore in a selected area (basically so you can have a small, finite map but not worry about resources running out). I'm glad we had an admin willing to give up a couple hours to inspect populated chunks and regenerate ores in the chunks where ore had been wiped.
Can you make a plugin so that if someone is using a texture pack, it still shows default texture pack?
This is like maphack for Diabo II. There is no way to really stop this because the ore locations are given to the client (as chunks are loaded). There is ways to block it and they are:
Have a mod that obfuscates ore. This will need to be updated for every single xray mod, most likely, making it annoying. As people have posted it also can be buggy.
Remove the ability for blocks to support transparency/translucency. This would be a ***** to implement, since it is needed for some blocks.
Rewrite the game in C++ or something. Doing that though would basically kill *ALL* mods. Sure as hell would stop xray mod, at least for a while. Incidentally it would probably improve game performance too...
Use cubic chunks mod. If this was implemented it would greatly reduce the range of xray mod. They could still see the ores but at a much reduced y axis distance.
Really though I think the best way to fight xray mod is to have a really good, safe one hosted here. If everyone uses the really good xray mod here then it makes it very easy for server admins to block it. This sounds counter-intuitive but it would work.
This is like maphack for Diabo II. There is no way to really stop this because the ore locations are given to the client (as chunks are loaded). There is ways to block it and they are:
Have a mod that obfuscates ore. This will need to be updated for every single xray mod, most likely, making it annoying. As people have posted it also can be buggy.
Remove the ability for blocks to support transparency/translucency. This would be a ***** to implement, since it is needed for some blocks.
Rewrite the game in C++ or something. Doing that though would basically kill *ALL* mods. Sure as hell would stop xray mod, at least for a while. Incidentally it would probably improve game performance too...
Use cubic chunks mod. If this was implemented it would greatly reduce the range of xray mod. They could still see the ores but at a much reduced y axis distance.
Really though I think the best way to fight xray mod is to have a really good, safe one hosted here. If everyone uses the really good xray mod here then it makes it very easy for server admins to block it. This sounds counter-intuitive but it would work.
So, basically you're saying to rewrite the entire game and ruin all chances of having fun by using funs just so you can stop a couple of people from cheating a little bit? Seems a bit overly excessive to me.
So, basically you're saying to rewrite the entire game and ruin all chances of having fun by using funs just so you can stop a couple of people from cheating a little bit? Seems a bit overly excessive to me.
He's not saying it's the best possibility, he's just saying that would be another way to do it.
The ability for admins to remotely request screen shots and trickle upload them to the server with out the client knowing is the best way IMO to combat xray. A small disclaimer should be displayed stating that this may happen while connected to the server (If it's enabled) is all you need.
If it was that easy to come up with something to stop it, it would have most likely be done by now, I would guess.
I may be wrong and there might be more to it than that, but I don't really know.
but it's a texture pack, so we can't do anything
Warning: I know at least one of these sorts of plugin had a very serious bug. It didn't just obscure the blocks or make them appear to be something else, it actually left entire chunks entirely devoid of ore for some reason.
To the people saying "I don't think there's a way to fix this": There is absolutely no logical reason for the server to send the client data on blocks the player can't see, with the exception of block update information for things like redstone circuits. Basically, the only reason that x-ray texture packs work at all is because no one at Mojang has ever bothered to optimize the server-side code to prevent this sort of data from being transmitted to the player until the player can actually observe the blocks.
It might be possible for Notch to hard-code in opaqueness for certain blocks or such. But this would hurt people who use it for private purposes, and not to mention it would probably make texture packs more difficult and/or coding.
So no. You'll just have to try to catch cheaters by what they do (aka the 1x1 hole straight down to a dungeon)
That has nothing to do with blocks people can't see. The only way I could see it causing any lag would be a large TNT explosion on the ground with a lot of people gathered around it, since the server would have to figure out which blocks were visible to which players and send the information along to the clients.
I guess I should be more specific? There's no logical reason for the server to send the client information on blocks underground which the player can't see.
Except they would be able to see down an empty shaft because it's already exposed, so there would be no new data for the server to send the player.
I'm not talking about an issue of render distance, but rather visibility.
Frankly, I don't think it would be quite as hard on the server as you seem to think it is. That's fine, we have differing opinions. However it is really the only way to stop x-ray texture packs in a reliable manner.
I actually remember that one from when they were trying to prevent Team aVolition from griefing. Poor Reddit server owner had to start the entire map three times.
Yea, my favorite server had a problem with the same plugin. The Reddit guy wasn't very smart though since there is a Bukkit plugin admins can use to regenerate ore in a selected area (basically so you can have a small, finite map but not worry about resources running out). I'm glad we had an admin willing to give up a couple hours to inspect populated chunks and regenerate ores in the chunks where ore had been wiped.
Can you make a plugin so that if someone is using a texture pack, it still shows default texture pack?
I may be and probably are wrong, but something like that requires something like SpoutCraft.
Have a mod that obfuscates ore. This will need to be updated for every single xray mod, most likely, making it annoying. As people have posted it also can be buggy.
Remove the ability for blocks to support transparency/translucency. This would be a ***** to implement, since it is needed for some blocks.
Rewrite the game in C++ or something. Doing that though would basically kill *ALL* mods. Sure as hell would stop xray mod, at least for a while. Incidentally it would probably improve game performance too...
Use cubic chunks mod. If this was implemented it would greatly reduce the range of xray mod. They could still see the ores but at a much reduced y axis distance.
Really though I think the best way to fight xray mod is to have a really good, safe one hosted here. If everyone uses the really good xray mod here then it makes it very easy for server admins to block it. This sounds counter-intuitive but it would work.
So, basically you're saying to rewrite the entire game and ruin all chances of having fun by using funs just so you can stop a couple of people from cheating a little bit? Seems a bit overly excessive to me.
He's not saying it's the best possibility, he's just saying that would be another way to do it.
Simple and effective, yea?