I do agree the game is fantastic, and Notch is a genius, but I think he should keep making a creative/survival sandbox, and instead of developing RPGish things he should add more mobs and blocks.
I don't know why some of you builders are so scared that they are going to take away your blocks. Who cares if it's a "sandbox" or "rpg" or whatever. It's still the same game and you can still build your replica Taj Mahal if you don't want to muck about in the nether, or whatever.
Grand Theft Auto and Carmagedon were both sandbox games but had goals...
Exactly..
Thing is - if you dont like the rpg elements dont use it. Some of us do like it and would like a point to this. I remember when someone told me about this game about how addictive it was. I asked "whats the point" and they couldn't explain anything. Do whatever you want.
Even with the RPG elements added you can still have a pointless game. Just do what you want.
I just want MORE to do. I'm seeing a lot of these mods now have taken it to the new level. New blocks like adamantium and obsidian tools and way more animals. Like this yogbox thing. Its totally what minecraft should be. Cutting down a tree makes it all come down etc.
My beef is that this is still probably a year from really being released. They are adding cool stuff and making progress but way too slow. Now we are going to get the shaft at release and have to wait for modders to finish.
Well, technically he can do anything he wants with it. But he wouldn't, because he cares about the community. And the awesome game minecraft is and has become.
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"I can see a beautiful sunset rendering in the distance."
Passionate communities build up around artists with integrity and unique visions, not around design-by-committee projects that try to cater to everyone. Notch is not your *****.
This community needs to make up it's damn mind. You whine and whine for an update, and they give you one, which you all then proceed to take said update, stomp it into the ground along with the companies hopes and dreams of becoming more then a indie game. After whining about that update, you demand for another update, because it obviously wasn't good enough for you, even though some times they stay late in the office to get code fixed up before releasing it. So, they decide to put out prereleases, only for you guys to once again, stomp into the ground saying its a horrible idea, and continue to insult them. You guys are like a baby and his/her bottle. Once its empty, it must be refilled. Untill then, the baby shall whine and whine till he/she gets what it wants, and this process continues on, and on, and on.
Get the point? Stop whining about how he makes his game, you bought it, you knew what to expect since the game is still a WIP, so I suggest you shut the **** up, sit your asses down, and be quiet.
I suppose parts of the game still are. For example, Creative mode is sandbox. Survival mode on peaceful is basically sandbox. Anything else is not though.
Sandbox means there's no goal, and that there's nothing you HAVE to do. That's no longer true. For example, just the hunger system alone forces you to have to actively do certain things.
Again, not complaining, as I don't mind the additions. Just saying that it's not really the same genre it was before.
That is actually not what a "sandbox" game is. A sandbox game is one that has a non-linear plot that allows you to complete goals in any order with out directing you through the game with a single path. Grand theft auto is a sandbox game. Saints Row is a sandbox game. All of these games have a goal, but they have a non-linear way opf getting to that goal.
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Come check out my electro-step mix. It's a blend of electro-house and dubstep. Seen!
Listen and download: Volume Up, Windows Down
"Minecraft is turning into a RPG. Where's my sandbox game??? D:"
"Lets hire the people that worked on an RPG mod of Minecraft! :biggrin.gif:"
Sometimes I think the minecraft community is bi-polar
Sandbox means there's no goal, and that there's nothing you HAVE to do. That's no longer true. For example, just the hunger system alone forces you to have to actively do certain things.
Not Necessarily, Sandbox is more like a sub-class of Non-linear game play. Non-linear game play just means that there's more than one way to overcome a challenge, or accomplish a goal.
He's not making the game for others. He's doing what a designer should; Making the game he thinks needs to be made. It's what a lot of designers hold as the golden mantra. If you make the game you would love the most, you'll find other people that will love it just as much. You run the risk of creating a niche market, but at least you're guaranteed to end up with a good game.
The problem with this argument is that he's making the game that he wants to make right now, rather than the one that he first wanted to make. "I want to make an Infiniminer clone" is not the same thing as "You know what made Infiniminer great? Experience bars and hunger and giant mushroom biomes and NPC villages and a dragon that inhabits a parallel dimension!"
I do agree the game is fantastic, and Notch is a genius, but I think he should keep making a creative/survival sandbox, and instead of developing RPGish things he should add more mobs and blocks.
I said the same damn thing, and people called me delusional. I wish I could give you a hundred reps for that post alone.
This is a joke, right? Sarcasm? Since, you know, that's exactly what happened to Minecraft?
I'm not complaining, as I'm not one of the people that are adamantly against the new features being added. But Minecraft is certainly not a "sandbox" game anymore.
Exactly. A sandbox game does not have an "end"-anything. Not Endermen, not Ender Dragons, and certainly not places called "the End". They also don't have a single super-boss monster.
don't tell me new blocks, because that's just useless and can be easily modded, I'm talking about REAL features
Newsflash: hunger also existed as a mod before Mojang added it. ANY feature can be modded into the game. The correct question is what stuff should come with the game out-of-the-box, and a lot of block types fall into that category. I can make stairs out of cobble but not mossy cobble? SRSLY?
Sandbox means there's no goal, and that there's nothing you HAVE to do. That's no longer true. For example, just the hunger system alone forces you to have to actively do certain things.
the USA is bi-polar becasue half of the people want republicans and the other half wants democrats.
From what I've heard, most don't really want either, and complain about choosing from the lesser of two evils. Like they've never heard of Libertarians... :dry.gif:
Taking minecraft and turning it into a racing game would be a bad decision, but it would also be completly inconsistent of notch to make that decision. If you have a goal in mind as to what the game is and are moving towards it, you shouldn't be making a hard left turn and going to a different goal. The developer shouldn't listen to the fans when they say his goal should be 20 feet to the right.
But that's EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.
"Yo dawg, i herd u liek MCMMO, so i put an EXP bar in yo minecraft"
"Yo dawg, i herd you like Aether, so i put a third alternate dimension in yo minecraft"
A. by that definition, no sandbox is a game. At best they are classified as a toy.
That's actually true and reminds me of something that was said about the Simcity series. They're not games; they're toys. Grand Theft Auto is a toy. Minecraft used to be a toy. It's turning into a game.
B. Even the most open game has limits. without defined limits, you have nothing. The limits provide the structure that makes everything else possible. Limits provide support, and makes it actually possible to do things.
C. Minecraft is not meant to be a pure sandbox. There is creative mode for that. Minecraft is a game, built on a sandbox. As such, it has imposed rules and limits, things that counter you, yet retains the core openess. It has always been like this since the start of survival mode. Is not the light system itself an arbitrary limit? You need to place torches to keep monsters from spawning, you need to gather resources for better tools
And Simcity had a budget. It was still a toy, not a game. There was no biggest, baddest thing that you could do there. There were no "achievements". Minecraft used to be like that. Now we have achievements and we're getting a single super-powerful boss monster. If you collect all of the achievements and slay the Big Bad, you can honestly claim to have "won" Minecraft, even if you don't get a "game over, you win" screen.
Legally Notch can do ANYTHING he wants to the game and NO ONE is entitled to a refund of their money or any say in the matter.
Legally, Michael Bay is entitled to rape my childhood by making horrible movies with the word "Transformers" in the title. It doesn't mean that he should have, or that it was okay.
Notch needs to hire some of these modders. I mean they are doing what SHOULD be done with the game in a FRACTION of the time it takes for him to do anything.
I mean for example that Kingdoms mod.. holy crap. Look at the effort and time put into that. Look at some of the other work.
If he really wanted to get off his butt and make a game for "others" instead of for his own amusement he'd spend some of "our" money on the title and get stuff done.
Sigh, this line of thinking can be applied to any developer, artist, manufacturer, etc. Yes they can essentially do whatever they please but it doesn't make it a good idea or a valid argument for why they should.
I've never taken a business class and I can see the fatal flaws in this argument of "It's his game, blah, blah, blah". Yes Notch could sit there and say "Okay, today I am gonna turn the world upside down and make it so you watch cartoons via a TV.", however it isn't a smart business model. Notch would lose a lot of credibility and respect if he were to do this. He would **** off a ton of fans and potential sales. It is business to suicide to do something like that.
**** OJ Simpson was a great running back yet isn't remembered for it, Michael Jackson was a revolutionary artist yet seems to have little credibility, or respect.
There's not goal in Minecraft and even if there was it would still be classified as a sandbox. So to those people saying minecraft is not sandbox are plain WRONG. Just because it has some RPG features doesn't mean it's not SB.
GTA has 3rd person shooter elements but it's still a sandbox game.
To answer the original question: Yes and No. If notch completely changes what minecraft is then No. But if he adds a racing element that you don't have to use/play then Yes. It would be fun actually.
The problem with this argument is that he's making the game that he wants to make right now, rather than the one that he first wanted to make. "I want to make an Infiniminer clone" is not the same thing as "You know what made Infiniminer great? Experience bars and hunger and giant mushroom biomes and NPC villages and a dragon that inhabits a parallel dimension!"
Ummm.... you clearly never paid attention to notch's early statements about what he wanted the game to be in the beginning. Experience, NPCs, alternate dimensions, and dragons were ALL things he said he wanted to add early on, and hunger was something he came around to later, but still early in the game's development. This was his stated goal for years.
Exactly. A sandbox game does not have an "end"-anything. Not Endermen, not Ender Dragons, and certainly not places called "the End". They also don't have a single super-boss monster.
Complaining about endermen and ender dragons because their name contains "end" in it is utterly silly. Endermen didn't get their name because of the end of the game, they got it as a play off of "slendermen"
"The end" as a place name is a clever double entendre, since it is where the endgame takes place, but apart from that carries interesting implications. Its "the end". The end of what? The end of time? Interpreting it as a wasteland as the universe is dying and collapsing is a chilling thought. The end of the world? if the world is practically infinite, it extends past the light of the sun, moon, and stars, placing it in a dark void. The land may not be as cohesive, causing it to be fragmented floating islands, barren of plant life, the very structure of the world different from your typical stone. It could also imply the end in a more metaphysical sense. You have multiple dimesniosn, this is the edge of them. Reality is dark and twisted. Its clever.
As for having a boss monster, a sandbox doesn't force you to meet any of its goals. Its not like the world will be destroyed if you do't defeat the boss within a hundred days. You are free to do whatever you want.
Actually, the hunger system doesn't force you to do anything. You could put it on easy, not eat, and end up at half health. This is equivalent to full health on medium, more or less, since mobs do half as much damage on easy. viola, you don't need to eat unless you want to sprint or heal. They built in allowances for it.
but that's EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.
"Yo dawg, i herd u liek MCMMO, so i put an EXP bar in yo minecraft"
"Yo dawg, i herd you like Aether, so i put a third alternate dimension in yo minecraft"
Experience was an idea he had years ago, and returned to. He had skylands planned before the aether came out, and they were based on the old floating island maps we had in indev.
He is doing things he has had planned for a long time. Stop accusing him of diverting off from it. He is not changing the fundamental nature of the game.
That's actually true and reminds me of something that was said about the Simcity series. They're not games; they're toys. Grand Theft Auto is a toy. Minecraft used to be a toy. It's turning into a game.
Grand theft auto is much more of a game than minecraft is. You have mission to complete, goals to accomplish, and things to unlock. Yes, you can ignore all of that and just drive around doing whatever, but same with minecraft. There are goals, you can freely ignore them and do what you want. In fact ,you have more freedom in minecraft since they don't lock content until you have progressed through the storyline enough.
And Simcity had a budget. It was still a toy, not a game. There was no biggest, baddest thing that you could do there. There were no "achievements". Minecraft used to be like that. Now we have achievements and we're getting a single super-powerful boss monster. If you collect all of the achievements and slay the Big Bad, you can honestly claim to have "won" Minecraft, even if you don't get a "game over, you win" screen.
Were you playing the same simcity I was? There is a goal. You can win. You have the abstract goal of building a bigger and better city, making it profitable, etc. You could freely ignore this, and make a city that looks like a llama if you want, but that level of a goal is there. It also had a more concrete goal. You build the arcology, fill it with people, and launch it to the stars. Congratulation, you won, you may resume toying around with your city now.
Minecraft is no different. There are goals. You can accomplish them. You can ignore them. That is what makes it a sandbox. The option. Not completing the goals is a completely valid option, and you can go do whatever you want. You can ignore the goals in simcity. You can ignore the goals in grand theft auto. You can't ignore the goals in mario.
No, it doesn't. If no one told you the end was the there and you had to go kill the dragon, you would probably not even realize its there. You could easily miss out on making endereyes, since combining blaze powder with an enderpearl is a fairly arbitrary thing to do. You could not find a portal room in the stronghold the eye points out, assuming you figured out that it was leading you someplace and you needed to dig there to find it. Even if you find the room, you could easily overlook the fact you can stick the endereye in the portal block, and you could easily neglect to try filling in all of the blocks with endereyes.
Meanwhile, while you are in ignorance of this potential goal, you are playing the game in the exact same way you would if the dragon didn't exist. Even after you know the dragon exists , you can decide not to go and slay it, and continue building.
Tell me, how is that fundamentally altering what the game is?
You liked Notch's game. You paid to play it. He can do whatever he wants with it, however he wants to. He owes you nothing. Either accept the changes, revert to earlier versions, or stop playing.
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Intelligence is not one and the same with knowledge.
That means that if he suddenly makes this a racing game, it's OK because it's his game?
inb4massiveflamewar
Correct! Such an event is unlikely, but it would be acceptable due to that simple fact.
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"Science isn't a matter of WHY, it's a matter of WHY NOT? WHY is so much of our science dangerous? Why don't you marry safe science if you love it so much? In fact, why don't you invent a special safety door that won't slam you in the butt on your way out? BECAUSE YOU ARE FIRED!" -Cave Johnson
I don't know why some of you builders are so scared that they are going to take away your blocks. Who cares if it's a "sandbox" or "rpg" or whatever. It's still the same game and you can still build your replica Taj Mahal if you don't want to muck about in the nether, or whatever.
Exactly..
Thing is - if you dont like the rpg elements dont use it. Some of us do like it and would like a point to this. I remember when someone told me about this game about how addictive it was. I asked "whats the point" and they couldn't explain anything. Do whatever you want.
Even with the RPG elements added you can still have a pointless game. Just do what you want.
I just want MORE to do. I'm seeing a lot of these mods now have taken it to the new level. New blocks like adamantium and obsidian tools and way more animals. Like this yogbox thing. Its totally what minecraft should be. Cutting down a tree makes it all come down etc.
My beef is that this is still probably a year from really being released. They are adding cool stuff and making progress but way too slow. Now we are going to get the shaft at release and have to wait for modders to finish.
"I can see a beautiful sunset rendering in the distance."
However, his fanbase wouldn't be pleased with such a move. People would be pissed, and he'd realize where he went wrong instantly.
"sometimes, wizards are so awesome, it hurts"
Get the point? Stop whining about how he makes his game, you bought it, you knew what to expect since the game is still a WIP, so I suggest you shut the **** up, sit your asses down, and be quiet.
That is actually not what a "sandbox" game is. A sandbox game is one that has a non-linear plot that allows you to complete goals in any order with out directing you through the game with a single path. Grand theft auto is a sandbox game. Saints Row is a sandbox game. All of these games have a goal, but they have a non-linear way opf getting to that goal.
Listen and download: Volume Up, Windows Down
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Not Necessarily, Sandbox is more like a sub-class of Non-linear game play. Non-linear game play just means that there's more than one way to overcome a challenge, or accomplish a goal.
The definition you offered was a bit off.
You can already race in Minecraft. You have to do it on foot and everyone has the same walking speed so racing is pointless, but you can race
Since 1.8 introduced "experience". But it's okay because my power level is over 9000 and I caught all the pokeymans and I can just ignore it.
The problem with this argument is that he's making the game that he wants to make right now, rather than the one that he first wanted to make. "I want to make an Infiniminer clone" is not the same thing as "You know what made Infiniminer great? Experience bars and hunger and giant mushroom biomes and NPC villages and a dragon that inhabits a parallel dimension!"
I said the same damn thing, and people called me delusional. I wish I could give you a hundred reps for that post alone.
Exactly. A sandbox game does not have an "end"-anything. Not Endermen, not Ender Dragons, and certainly not places called "the End". They also don't have a single super-boss monster.
Newsflash: hunger also existed as a mod before Mojang added it. ANY feature can be modded into the game. The correct question is what stuff should come with the game out-of-the-box, and a lot of block types fall into that category. I can make stairs out of cobble but not mossy cobble? SRSLY?
EXACTLY!
From what I've heard, most don't really want either, and complain about choosing from the lesser of two evils. Like they've never heard of Libertarians... :dry.gif:
But that's EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.
"Yo dawg, i herd u liek MCMMO, so i put an EXP bar in yo minecraft"
"Yo dawg, i herd you like Aether, so i put a third alternate dimension in yo minecraft"
That's actually true and reminds me of something that was said about the Simcity series. They're not games; they're toys. Grand Theft Auto is a toy. Minecraft used to be a toy. It's turning into a game.
And Simcity had a budget. It was still a toy, not a game. There was no biggest, baddest thing that you could do there. There were no "achievements". Minecraft used to be like that. Now we have achievements and we're getting a single super-powerful boss monster. If you collect all of the achievements and slay the Big Bad, you can honestly claim to have "won" Minecraft, even if you don't get a "game over, you win" screen.
Actually, it does. It totally does.
Legally, Michael Bay is entitled to rape my childhood by making horrible movies with the word "Transformers" in the title. It doesn't mean that he should have, or that it was okay.
Sorry. I arrived late for this party.
416 stone
296 stone slab (150 blocks)
149 stone stairs (228 blocks)
794 total stone
1082 blackstone
174 blackstone slab (87 blocks)
52 blackstone stairs (78 blocks)
1247 total blackstone
(not counting drawbridges and portcullises)
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/4955141617/the-plan-for-mods
It's coming. Whether in 5 months or 5 years, it is.
The system may be totally different from the one mentioned here though.
I love racing games btw.
I've never taken a business class and I can see the fatal flaws in this argument of "It's his game, blah, blah, blah". Yes Notch could sit there and say "Okay, today I am gonna turn the world upside down and make it so you watch cartoons via a TV.", however it isn't a smart business model. Notch would lose a lot of credibility and respect if he were to do this. He would **** off a ton of fans and potential sales. It is business to suicide to do something like that.
**** OJ Simpson was a great running back yet isn't remembered for it, Michael Jackson was a revolutionary artist yet seems to have little credibility, or respect.
There's not goal in Minecraft and even if there was it would still be classified as a sandbox. So to those people saying minecraft is not sandbox are plain WRONG. Just because it has some RPG features doesn't mean it's not SB.
GTA has 3rd person shooter elements but it's still a sandbox game.
To answer the original question: Yes and No. If notch completely changes what minecraft is then No. But if he adds a racing element that you don't have to use/play then Yes. It would be fun actually.
experience does not make it an RPG, especially not in the current form.
Ummm.... you clearly never paid attention to notch's early statements about what he wanted the game to be in the beginning. Experience, NPCs, alternate dimensions, and dragons were ALL things he said he wanted to add early on, and hunger was something he came around to later, but still early in the game's development. This was his stated goal for years.
Complaining about endermen and ender dragons because their name contains "end" in it is utterly silly. Endermen didn't get their name because of the end of the game, they got it as a play off of "slendermen"
"The end" as a place name is a clever double entendre, since it is where the endgame takes place, but apart from that carries interesting implications. Its "the end". The end of what? The end of time? Interpreting it as a wasteland as the universe is dying and collapsing is a chilling thought. The end of the world? if the world is practically infinite, it extends past the light of the sun, moon, and stars, placing it in a dark void. The land may not be as cohesive, causing it to be fragmented floating islands, barren of plant life, the very structure of the world different from your typical stone. It could also imply the end in a more metaphysical sense. You have multiple dimesniosn, this is the edge of them. Reality is dark and twisted. Its clever.
As for having a boss monster, a sandbox doesn't force you to meet any of its goals. Its not like the world will be destroyed if you do't defeat the boss within a hundred days. You are free to do whatever you want.
Actually, the hunger system doesn't force you to do anything. You could put it on easy, not eat, and end up at half health. This is equivalent to full health on medium, more or less, since mobs do half as much damage on easy. viola, you don't need to eat unless you want to sprint or heal. They built in allowances for it.
Experience was an idea he had years ago, and returned to. He had skylands planned before the aether came out, and they were based on the old floating island maps we had in indev.
He is doing things he has had planned for a long time. Stop accusing him of diverting off from it. He is not changing the fundamental nature of the game.
Grand theft auto is much more of a game than minecraft is. You have mission to complete, goals to accomplish, and things to unlock. Yes, you can ignore all of that and just drive around doing whatever, but same with minecraft. There are goals, you can freely ignore them and do what you want. In fact ,you have more freedom in minecraft since they don't lock content until you have progressed through the storyline enough.
Were you playing the same simcity I was? There is a goal. You can win. You have the abstract goal of building a bigger and better city, making it profitable, etc. You could freely ignore this, and make a city that looks like a llama if you want, but that level of a goal is there. It also had a more concrete goal. You build the arcology, fill it with people, and launch it to the stars. Congratulation, you won, you may resume toying around with your city now.
Minecraft is no different. There are goals. You can accomplish them. You can ignore them. That is what makes it a sandbox. The option. Not completing the goals is a completely valid option, and you can go do whatever you want. You can ignore the goals in simcity. You can ignore the goals in grand theft auto. You can't ignore the goals in mario.
No, it doesn't. If no one told you the end was the there and you had to go kill the dragon, you would probably not even realize its there. You could easily miss out on making endereyes, since combining blaze powder with an enderpearl is a fairly arbitrary thing to do. You could not find a portal room in the stronghold the eye points out, assuming you figured out that it was leading you someplace and you needed to dig there to find it. Even if you find the room, you could easily overlook the fact you can stick the endereye in the portal block, and you could easily neglect to try filling in all of the blocks with endereyes.
Meanwhile, while you are in ignorance of this potential goal, you are playing the game in the exact same way you would if the dragon didn't exist. Even after you know the dragon exists , you can decide not to go and slay it, and continue building.
Tell me, how is that fundamentally altering what the game is?
Thanks!
Correct! Such an event is unlikely, but it would be acceptable due to that simple fact.