I agree entirely now that I think about it.
Regardless, we need more input. I'm spreading the word to modders and related threads. The thread is basically correspondence between themuffin, caseyds620 and myself. We need people!
EDIT: Speaking of which, I've mailed the following people associated with these projects asking for support by linking their thread to us and vice versa
Pocket Dimensions
Mo' Creatures (reskinning horse and flying horse to cars, motorbikes and helicopters)
SDK's Gun Mod
qwertyz
Infinium
Steampunk
Redstone FAQ people
Wireless redstone
Got response from Mo' Creatures. We're debating whether to do the above.
EDIT : Regarding Mo' Creatures, I've looked over their forum topic, and basically everything they have (minus ogres, they really seem kind of... idk, they just feel out-of-place next to the other animals) is awesome. As a general implementation, it'd be good to boost overall support. Also, after reading the procedures below, keep in mind that a really important part of their project is the horse. I assume that their idea of taming and controlling means that I can ride it the way I walk (WASD), I have good animation while doing so (3rd person), and it's faster than walking (helps explain how some of the physics work in MC).
So basically, we want a generic process for incorporating other modders' projects, and asking for support:
1) Contact a veteran modder who owns, or is a leading developer of, a big or unique project.
2) Find out if they will willingly work on an MCP Mod System port, and provide that port to us as part of our ongoing project.
3) If they would not like to work on such a port, then if they would provide us access to the source code first. After that, we need to know if we can get a full-on license, as long as we port it to MCP Mod System and acknowledge that our version was based on their version.
And next, we need a generic process for recruiting experienced modders just for their experience in coding:
1) Contact an veteran modder looking for a project.
2) Find out if they are familiar with MCP. Either way, are they willing to learn the MCP Mod System SDK/API? It is different from MCP in some ways, but is definitely better.
3) If they are willing to work with the MCP Mod System, inform them we are all about porting others' work to MCP Mod System and making mods of our own using the system, if no existing mods met our needs.
4) Also require that they agree to basic agreement : all work they contribute is property of UTD, but is guaranteed to be released under the license that allows anybody to do anything with code/mods, as long as they give credit to everybody who was guaranteed credit. (The license which I will be writing up, but is similar to the Portal Dimensions mod below)
5) Assuming they agreed to the agreement (lol) and will work with MCP Mod System, either assign them a task of a project being worked on, or delegate them to waiting until their skills are needed. (that should *never* happen; our plans are ambitious enough that once we get going, there'll be no end of work for weeks, months)
Quote from Zaldarr »
I agree entirely now that I think about it.
Regardless, we need more input. I'm spreading the word to modders and related threads. The thread is basically correspondence between themuffin, caseyds620 and myself. We need people!
Considering that the majority of indy games out there (there are many popular small games [flash is a prime example, it has 100s of distinct, uniquely designed, and relatively popular games {100K+ adoring players}]), I think we're safe in assuming we have the time to build up support. Plus, we wouldn't want to start too early, since even the next update (1.3 beta) will add awesome new features. (redstone repeaters/diodes, secret block, wooden half-block, etc.)
Anyways, get TLUL, regarding a special license for a UTD mod pack version of Teleport Signs, below, and also if he would consider porting, of his own free will, to the MCP Mod System.
I already posted on Searge's (dev of MCP Mod System) topic to get some feedback on the system. I will be speaking to him myself regarding a license. Below there is some talk about it.
So far, as far as licensing goes, here we are:
Searge's viewpoint:
Quote from Searge »
Quote from themuffin »
- Is it/will it be open source? If so, under what license? While the source wasn't obfuscated, neither source code nor a license was mentioned. It's possible that with this, really huge and possibly license-restrictive (copyleft/copyright) works could be created, so this might be important.
I have not made a decision yet, but currently I think it will be a mix open/closed source solution. The core classes to hook into MC will probably stay closed source, but the mod system itself might be open sourced later.
The source code for my examples is already included in the SDK. As soon as I have decided how and if to release the source code, I will also add the information about the license terms. Until then, the mod system should be considered closed source freeware and the example mods are public domain, except for the jumpblock mod which I did not create originally.
License to propose to TLUL:
Quote from themuffin »
The UTD TeleportSigns Distribution License:
Under this license, the UTD is freely allowed access to the source code of TeleportSigns, with the rights to redistribute, with modification, so long as credits are given. It is acknowledged that the UTD has the right to redistribute this modified package under a new license (see below), and new name.
Pocket Dimensions (based on TeleportSigns, as developed by TLUL, and Andronious's concept designs) License:
By downloading the Pocket Dimensions addon for Minecraft, you, the end-user of Pocket Dimensions, acknowledge that while you have the right to redistribute the addon with modifications, under a new license and name, under the conditions that you may not claim endorsement by Pocket Dimensions' authors, nor omit credits to Pocket Dimensions' authors and contributors. Furthermore, Pocket Dimensions' authors and contributors are cannot be held responsible for anything at all (including, but not limited to, damages, debt, and Pocket Dimensions usage), excepting applicable laws.
DAMN! You are on fire today. You should really be promoted to the status of caseyds620 and myself. Eight tentacles up! Keep doing what you're doing.
Tentacles? (*themuffin Google's "Zaldarr")
Thanks for the recognition though. It's probably just because of my inherent nature to make long posts. Not this one, 'cause there's not much left to dissect, and also, it's approaching the end of my online workday :tongue.gif: Tomorrow's another day though, and hopefully we can get everything all fixed up and on the front post, all clean and such.
Wow some big things have compiled since yesterday. I hear there are a few links people would like me to post on the front page? I was not actually able to discover them. Please PM them to me to remove variables.
On the topic of the banner, I did not make it, and therefore I can not correct it to make it smaller, but personally I really like it, however, if someone would like to make an alternative banner, I would have no problem posting it to the front page.
Also, to what themuffin said about the complex machinery and systems, I answer this. People are already making this stuff, we just need to endorse the mod. It could just simply be optional. A wheel would be a huge step forward, but I at-least want a mod that adds vehicles, and so does my good friend sacre for his NewCraft project.
Also, did anyone get around to reading my post about steam-turbine generators on the last page? Did anyone like the idea?
Wow some big things have compiled since yesterday. I hear there are a few links people would like me to post on the front page? I was not actually able to discover them. Please PM them to me to remove variables.
On the topic of the banner, I did not make it, and therefore I can not correct it to make it smaller, but personally I really like it, however, if someone would like to make an alternative banner, I would have no problem posting it to the front page.
Also, to what themuffin said about the complex machinery and systems, I answer this. People are already making this stuff, we just need to endorse the mod. It could just simply be optional. A wheel would be a huge step forward, but I at-least want a mod that adds vehicles, and so does my good friend sacre for his NewCraft project.
Also, did anyone get around to reading my post about steam-turbine generators on the last page? Did anyone like the idea?
[size=xx-large][url=http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=159963&p=2664379#p2664379][color=red]Second Draft of the UTD Project Specification[/color][/url][/size]
People are not making these things. That's what we should be about, as opposed to simply getting everybody together, putting their mods in a single zip/rar, and uploading to mediafire. Even if that were possible (it's not, some of the ideas have not been made in mods), I don't think that that's what we should be doing. What we should be doing is getting experienced modders together to make all these mods, on a new modding platform (I've mentioned several times, MCP Mod System), and getting everybody to see that what we're doing is different from just giving people cars.
If you can't see the difference between giving Minecraft players wheels to craft their own cars, bikes, motorcycles, etc., and just giving them a standard, generic car, then you're sort of missing the point of playing Minecraft.
Anyways, that's the point I've been arguing -- wheels and oars to make cars, bikes, motorcycles, trains, trucks, boats, submarines, and cruisers, does not kill the game, and would be way easier to code. Furthermore, the word "endorse" is being passed around a lot. There's not a lot we can do towards endorsing others' mods, since we don't have much to offer, at the moment. I admit that we do have to get some support for some related mods, such as TeleportSigns, but there are simply not enough mods to cover everything that is planned out.
Wow some big things have compiled since yesterday. I hear there are a few links people would like me to post on the front page? I was not actually able to discover them. Please PM them to me to remove variables.
On the topic of the banner, I did not make it, and therefore I can not correct it to make it smaller, but personally I really like it, however, if someone would like to make an alternative banner, I would have no problem posting it to the front page.
Also, to what themuffin said about the complex machinery and systems, I answer this. People are already making this stuff, we just need to endorse the mod. It could just simply be optional. A wheel would be a huge step forward, but I at-least want a mod that adds vehicles, and so does my good friend sacre for his NewCraft project.
Also, did anyone get around to reading my post about steam-turbine generators on the last page? Did anyone like the idea?
[size=xx-large][url=http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=159963&p=2664379#p2664379][color=red]Second Draft of the UTD Project Specification[/color][/url][/size]
People are not making these things. That's what we should be about, as opposed to simply getting everybody together, putting their mods in a single zip/rar, and uploading to mediafire. Even if that were possible (it's not, some of the ideas have not been made in mods), I don't think that that's what we should be doing. What we should be doing is getting experienced modders together to make all these mods, on a new modding platform (I've mentioned several times, MCP Mod System), and getting everybody to see that what we're doing is different from just giving people cars.
If you can't see the difference between giving Minecraft players wheels to craft their own cars, bikes, motorcycles, etc., and just giving them a standard, generic car, then you're sort of missing the point of playing Minecraft.
Anyways, that's the point I've been arguing -- wheels and oars to make cars, bikes, motorcycles, trains, trucks, boats, submarines, and cruisers, does not kill the game, and would be way easier to code. Furthermore, the word "endorse" is being passed around a lot. There's not a lot we can do towards endorsing others' mods, since we don't have much to offer, at the moment. I admit that we do have to get some support for some related mods, such as TeleportSigns, but there are simply not enough mods to cover everything that is planned out.
I like what your saying here. I do believe a standard modding platform should be choose for all current generation mods, as a matter a fact, It's what first came to mind when I saw mods. I really think that you have made some really important contributions to this thread,and I thank you for it. I will add your link btw.
What did you think about my steam-turbine-generator idea? I really thought that adding a way to expand redstone range without inverters was a good idea, especially with a timer interface. It's on the page before this one if your interested, final post.
I like what your saying here. I do believe a standard modding platform should be choose for all current generation mods, as a matter a fact, It's what first came to mind when I saw mods. I really think that you have made some really important contributions to this thread,and I thank you for it. I will add your link btw.
What did you think about my steam-turbine-generator idea? I really thought that adding a way to expand redstone range without inverters was a good idea, especially with a timer interface. It's on the page before this one if your interested, final post.
Steam power and various other alternative energy resources are not an original idea, though using them to expand redstone range might be. I'll add that to the list of detailed mechanics and things I'm writing. The timer interface... I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about. However, if you weren't aware, I was planning on, in a redstone expansion mod, to remove redstone tick delay. That would've broken the current methods of using redstone as a clock, so there was also a planned timer block that would've stopped electricity and let it through only on certain intervals.
See the "second draft" post (and also the link to the original Massive Version) for more details. It's not updated, but I'm working on it.
Modding platform : see MCP Mod System (I've been saying this for a while now :tongue.gif:)
umm, guys, sorry to burst any ones bubble here, but notch will NEVER add this, look around in minecraft, there are things like pigs. . . stone levers. . . . castles. . . it sounds good in theory, but i know that it will never become a real part of minecraft. all this u are saying about minecraft "evolving", well that isnt evolution, that is completly remaking the game. . . . . to be able to have the game . . . . play itself, what is the fun in that might i ask? anyway, aside from all that i dont think it is going to work without SERIOUS overhaul on the redstone. think about it, all they can do right now is be "on" or "off". and btw, redstone isnt even electric, it is magic. Notch actually said this, soo, srry but it aint gonna happen.
Second, I really don't care if you think this will never happen, because I don't expect Notch to do it. In fact, I don't think anybody here said they did. Redstone doesn't have to be electrical, fine. Same idea. It goes on and off, and believe it or not, that's the same thing as 0s and 1s. People have built CPUs in redstone. Even more, we're not just talking about redstone, we're talking about wheels and gears. Sorry to burst your bubble, but wheels and gears came way before stone castles.
The idea is that we, the community, are trying to create a completely separate mod or mod pack, which will support the primitive objects that came before stone castles and levers, that Minecraft players will need in order to get more out the game.
Yeah. I really like this idea, all of it. I have been waiting FOREVER for a vechicles mod. I don't mean a stupid steamboat, no. I want cars, planes, big boats, rockets(?). The computer is awesome too! that would be cool. How bout a way to make the jukebox mplay songs you choose (like, drag them into the music folder). Good luck! I support you all the way! I don't like the mideval type of game that much. I want it to be modern! As for the gun mod, look down. Its awesome!
We have progress! We now have the support of the marvellous djoslin- creator of the wireless redstone mod. As well as DrZhark of the Mo'Creatures mod, saying he'll do a motorcycle, car and helicopter once he finishes his to-to do list! (which is fair enough). The proposer of the Pocket Dimensions/Intergrated circuits has allowed us to put up a link to his thread but the love isn't mutual (doesn't like the extreme modernity, won't put our banner up.)
HUZZAH!
if caseyds620 could accommodate these changes when he logs on next that would be good.
Gameplay mechanics UTD endorses:
1. Vehicles
2. Guns and other warfare items
3. Complex modern and city maps
4. Alternate power, steam, turbine, fossil fuel
5. Official implementation of a modern texture pack.
6. A NPC system where settlers will form towns and trader shops.
7. Cannons
8. An upgraded redstone and power system including generators and compression (An idea created by me incorporating large redstone circuits into one block making computers and high tech devices easier to build)
9. Wireless technology
Vehicles: Floating boat is one dont know which one but a mod lets you make airplanes with /airplanes
Guns: SDK's Guns
Cities: NewCraft
Power: Tried and failed in many threads not enough support i suppose
Texturepack: ModernCraft
NPC Towns: MineColony
Cannons: If your good like me build your own
uprade redstone: Good luck with that
Wireless: DJoslin's Mods my friend
We have progress! We now have the support of the marvellous djoslin- creator of the wireless redstone mod. As well as DrZhark of the Mo'Creatures mod, saying he'll do a motorcycle, car and helicopter once he finishes his to-to do list! (which is fair enough). The proposer of the Pocket Dimensions/Intergrated circuits has allowed us to put up a link to his thread but the love isn't mutual (doesn't like the extreme modernity, won't put our banner up.)
HUZZAH!
if caseyds620 could accommodate these changes when he logs on next that would be good.
OMG this is amazing, thank you so much Zaldarr, do you know just how much ground you gained for us!
One small post for a spaghetti haired man, one giant step for Minecraft.
This will be a reply to everybody's comments and such.
Quote from TPGreyKnight »
<snip>
Your post, I think, is the most comprehensive and well thought-out. Hence, I'm putting my reply to it first. My first comment is that you're basing your comments on caseyds620's position, and perhaps your take on what we're doing, and you might be getting the wrong idea, overall. That might not be true, maybe you've read it all and still have that opinion, but that is what it seems like to me. So, responses to your various statements:
1) Some problems are difficult to find a polynomial-time algorithm (that is efficient enough to run on our computers) to solve. That is true. Yes, some problems may be littered in the code that are like this, given a 3D nature with some physics. However, rendering does not take full advantage of the GPU. Multithreading is not utilized to its full extent. Optimization mods like Optiminer and MCRegion exist. All of these point to the fact that the code can be improved without looking for every last little slow-down, but instead a refactoring of some of the major coding issues.
2) Haters will hate. That is the truth. What should we tell them, that we hate them back? I will give them reasonable arguments against their own arguments against us, but there is not that much we can do if somebody posts a short flame and never comes back. Also, our "proposals" are not just proposals, but things we are actually working towards. If you had read more of the topic (this is not meant to blame, because this may not have been mentioned in the last page, and it's understandable that you wouldn't read all 5 pages -- I wouldn't!), you would've seen that I am advocating usage of the MCP Mod System, which functions as a community-made modding API, that, unlike other mods, does not require editing of the official minecraft.jar
3) I, at least, am not working on a compilation of existing mods. I am advocating a community-driven effort, and if MC modders will help me (being, as you say, new to the modding scene), then I will contribute as much as I can. Caseyds620's wording, and perhaps his take on what we're doing, may have made you think "Oh, they're just stealing everybody else's work" -- I, at least, am not thinking about doing that. I am trying to get contributions from the more experienced, because this is not a one-man job, and I think that much is reasonable. If they don't agree, we are not imposing.
4) You say we're imposing because this is becoming a mod project. When did it become imposing to make public mods that are 100% optional to download?
5) Learn Java - get good - start project. Working on it, good sir, working on it. :wink.gif:
===========================
For everybody else, posting support, updates on development (Zaldarr ;P), and various comments -- Please remember that we're not evolving upwards, we're filling in the blanks. I'm pretty sure wheels and gears came before stone castles, but we don't have them in-game. So did pumps and oars. And TNT? That came way after a lot of what we're proposing to do.
We're not in any way pushing MC to modern-day tech, we're pushing MC to get parts (that it should have by now, given the current "Minecraft time period", if any) that we can *make* modern-day tech out of. This works in the same way that people use redstone (which essentially goes on/off and has a NOT gate) to make a CPU, and TNT to make 1200-TNT cannons.
For everybody else, posting support, updates on development (Zaldarr ;P), and various comments -- Please remember that we're not evolving upwards, we're filling in the blanks. I'm pretty sure wheels and gears came before stone castles, but we don't have them in-game. So did pumps and oars. And TNT? That came way after a lot of what we're proposing to do.
We're not in any way pushing MC to modern-day tech, we're pushing MC to get parts (that it should have by now, given the current "Minecraft time period", if any) that we can *make* modern-day tech out of. This works in the same way that people use redstone (which essentially goes on/off and has a NOT gate) to make a CPU, and TNT to make 1200-TNT cannons.
Having "Modern Day Tech" isn't a bad thing. It allows for more options, the Minecraft Community is very large in size and a lot of people would love a Modern theme as oppose to a Classic theme.
These cities/Mods coming out that gives modern tech allows for more choices is all. People can choose to stick with the older theme and tame horses, etc. Others can go for a more Modern theme and use Vehicles, aircrafts, cities, etc.
Choice is a beautiful thing, and what this thread is pushing for is more choice in the end.
I agree that many people here that are endorsing or members of UTD have differing opinions on our stand than my own, and I'm ok with that, themuffin actually keeps me in line to an extent! What I'm saying is that you shouldn't leave hate comments without reading the full spectrum of the UTD, real members realize that, and thats why we are a Union, this thread started with the simple title "Redstone Computers" which evolved to URC: Unity for Redstone Computing which evolved to UTD.
I feel that if anyone want's to question our cause than they should do it elsewhere, as we already have a lot of support, and we are actually the driving factor toward the upcoming car mod. That's a huge step, and UTD started it.
we are actually the driving factor toward the upcoming car mod. That's a huge step, and UTD started it.
Actually, I got in contact with Zaldarr, and hopefully he can talk to the one who offered to help with vehicles. I'm trying to get a basic wheel block, that works on the MCP Mod System, so that we can get a better idea of how to code the vehicle system. The wheel is the most basic block of the planned vehicle system, because it allows land travel by linking many wheels together (placed blocks, not crafting).
sacre -- Yes, we are offering more choice, but we are trying to make people see that we're offering a good balance between a "classic" and a "modern" feel; after all, I keep saying that wheels came before TNT, and isn't that true? Yet wheels can be used to make something "modern" -- cars, tanks, etc.
Regardless, we need more input. I'm spreading the word to modders and related threads. The thread is basically correspondence between themuffin, caseyds620 and myself. We need people!
EDIT: Speaking of which, I've mailed the following people associated with these projects asking for support by linking their thread to us and vice versa
Pocket Dimensions
Mo' Creatures (reskinning horse and flying horse to cars, motorbikes and helicopters)
SDK's Gun Mod
qwertyz
Infinium
Steampunk
Redstone FAQ people
Wireless redstone
Got response from Mo' Creatures. We're debating whether to do the above.
So basically, we want a generic process for incorporating other modders' projects, and asking for support:
1) Contact a veteran modder who owns, or is a leading developer of, a big or unique project.
2) Find out if they will willingly work on an MCP Mod System port, and provide that port to us as part of our ongoing project.
3) If they would not like to work on such a port, then if they would provide us access to the source code first. After that, we need to know if we can get a full-on license, as long as we port it to MCP Mod System and acknowledge that our version was based on their version.
And next, we need a generic process for recruiting experienced modders just for their experience in coding:
1) Contact an veteran modder looking for a project.
2) Find out if they are familiar with MCP. Either way, are they willing to learn the MCP Mod System SDK/API? It is different from MCP in some ways, but is definitely better.
3) If they are willing to work with the MCP Mod System, inform them we are all about porting others' work to MCP Mod System and making mods of our own using the system, if no existing mods met our needs.
4) Also require that they agree to basic agreement : all work they contribute is property of UTD, but is guaranteed to be released under the license that allows anybody to do anything with code/mods, as long as they give credit to everybody who was guaranteed credit. (The license which I will be writing up, but is similar to the Portal Dimensions mod below)
5) Assuming they agreed to the agreement (lol) and will work with MCP Mod System, either assign them a task of a project being worked on, or delegate them to waiting until their skills are needed. (that should *never* happen; our plans are ambitious enough that once we get going, there'll be no end of work for weeks, months)
Considering that the majority of indy games out there (there are many popular small games [flash is a prime example, it has 100s of distinct, uniquely designed, and relatively popular games {100K+ adoring players}]), I think we're safe in assuming we have the time to build up support. Plus, we wouldn't want to start too early, since even the next update (1.3 beta) will add awesome new features. (redstone repeaters/diodes, secret block, wooden half-block, etc.)
Anyways, get TLUL, regarding a special license for a UTD mod pack version of Teleport Signs, below, and also if he would consider porting, of his own free will, to the MCP Mod System.
I already posted on Searge's (dev of MCP Mod System) topic to get some feedback on the system. I will be speaking to him myself regarding a license. Below there is some talk about it.
So far, as far as licensing goes, here we are:
Searge's viewpoint:
License to propose to TLUL:
Tentacles? (*themuffin Google's "Zaldarr")
Thanks for the recognition though. It's probably just because of my inherent nature to make long posts. Not this one, 'cause there's not much left to dissect, and also, it's approaching the end of my online workday :tongue.gif: Tomorrow's another day though, and hopefully we can get everything all fixed up and on the front post, all clean and such.
On the topic of the banner, I did not make it, and therefore I can not correct it to make it smaller, but personally I really like it, however, if someone would like to make an alternative banner, I would have no problem posting it to the front page.
Also, to what themuffin said about the complex machinery and systems, I answer this. People are already making this stuff, we just need to endorse the mod. It could just simply be optional. A wheel would be a huge step forward, but I at-least want a mod that adds vehicles, and so does my good friend sacre for his NewCraft project.
Also, did anyone get around to reading my post about steam-turbine generators on the last page? Did anyone like the idea?
Post regarding link to "second draft" is :
Second Draft of the UTD Project Specification
People are not making these things. That's what we should be about, as opposed to simply getting everybody together, putting their mods in a single zip/rar, and uploading to mediafire. Even if that were possible (it's not, some of the ideas have not been made in mods), I don't think that that's what we should be doing. What we should be doing is getting experienced modders together to make all these mods, on a new modding platform (I've mentioned several times, MCP Mod System), and getting everybody to see that what we're doing is different from just giving people cars.
If you can't see the difference between giving Minecraft players wheels to craft their own cars, bikes, motorcycles, etc., and just giving them a standard, generic car, then you're sort of missing the point of playing Minecraft.
Anyways, that's the point I've been arguing -- wheels and oars to make cars, bikes, motorcycles, trains, trucks, boats, submarines, and cruisers, does not kill the game, and would be way easier to code. Furthermore, the word "endorse" is being passed around a lot. There's not a lot we can do towards endorsing others' mods, since we don't have much to offer, at the moment. I admit that we do have to get some support for some related mods, such as TeleportSigns, but there are simply not enough mods to cover everything that is planned out.
I like what your saying here. I do believe a standard modding platform should be choose for all current generation mods, as a matter a fact, It's what first came to mind when I saw mods. I really think that you have made some really important contributions to this thread,and I thank you for it. I will add your link btw.
What did you think about my steam-turbine-generator idea? I really thought that adding a way to expand redstone range without inverters was a good idea, especially with a timer interface. It's on the page before this one if your interested, final post.
Steam power and various other alternative energy resources are not an original idea, though using them to expand redstone range might be. I'll add that to the list of detailed mechanics and things I'm writing. The timer interface... I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about. However, if you weren't aware, I was planning on, in a redstone expansion mod, to remove redstone tick delay. That would've broken the current methods of using redstone as a clock, so there was also a planned timer block that would've stopped electricity and let it through only on certain intervals.
See the "second draft" post (and also the link to the original Massive Version) for more details. It's not updated, but I'm working on it.
Modding platform : see MCP Mod System (I've been saying this for a while now :tongue.gif:)
enjoy the bump.
ur idea
Second, I really don't care if you think this will never happen, because I don't expect Notch to do it. In fact, I don't think anybody here said they did. Redstone doesn't have to be electrical, fine. Same idea. It goes on and off, and believe it or not, that's the same thing as 0s and 1s. People have built CPUs in redstone. Even more, we're not just talking about redstone, we're talking about wheels and gears. Sorry to burst your bubble, but wheels and gears came way before stone castles.
The idea is that we, the community, are trying to create a completely separate mod or mod pack, which will support the primitive objects that came before stone castles and levers, that Minecraft players will need in order to get more out the game.
Stuff I support:
Last time I checked minecraft was about creativity. I don't know what "minecraft" your talking about.
HUZZAH!
if caseyds620 could accommodate these changes when he logs on next that would be good.
Vehicles: Floating boat is one dont know which one but a mod lets you make airplanes with /airplanes
Guns: SDK's Guns
Cities: NewCraft
Power: Tried and failed in many threads not enough support i suppose
Texturepack: ModernCraft
NPC Towns: MineColony
Cannons: If your good like me build your own
uprade redstone: Good luck with that
Wireless: DJoslin's Mods my friend
:wink.gif:
Well thats my list.
Give diamonds please?
OMG this is amazing, thank you so much Zaldarr, do you know just how much ground you gained for us!
One small post for a spaghetti haired man, one giant step for Minecraft.
Minecraft is "Evolving" from the 1700's to the 1900's. Vehicles, Complex cities, aircrafts.
Lovin it.
Your post, I think, is the most comprehensive and well thought-out. Hence, I'm putting my reply to it first. My first comment is that you're basing your comments on caseyds620's position, and perhaps your take on what we're doing, and you might be getting the wrong idea, overall. That might not be true, maybe you've read it all and still have that opinion, but that is what it seems like to me. So, responses to your various statements:
1) Some problems are difficult to find a polynomial-time algorithm (that is efficient enough to run on our computers) to solve. That is true. Yes, some problems may be littered in the code that are like this, given a 3D nature with some physics. However, rendering does not take full advantage of the GPU. Multithreading is not utilized to its full extent. Optimization mods like Optiminer and MCRegion exist. All of these point to the fact that the code can be improved without looking for every last little slow-down, but instead a refactoring of some of the major coding issues.
2) Haters will hate. That is the truth. What should we tell them, that we hate them back? I will give them reasonable arguments against their own arguments against us, but there is not that much we can do if somebody posts a short flame and never comes back. Also, our "proposals" are not just proposals, but things we are actually working towards. If you had read more of the topic (this is not meant to blame, because this may not have been mentioned in the last page, and it's understandable that you wouldn't read all 5 pages -- I wouldn't!), you would've seen that I am advocating usage of the MCP Mod System, which functions as a community-made modding API, that, unlike other mods, does not require editing of the official minecraft.jar
3) I, at least, am not working on a compilation of existing mods. I am advocating a community-driven effort, and if MC modders will help me (being, as you say, new to the modding scene), then I will contribute as much as I can. Caseyds620's wording, and perhaps his take on what we're doing, may have made you think "Oh, they're just stealing everybody else's work" -- I, at least, am not thinking about doing that. I am trying to get contributions from the more experienced, because this is not a one-man job, and I think that much is reasonable. If they don't agree, we are not imposing.
4) You say we're imposing because this is becoming a mod project. When did it become imposing to make public mods that are 100% optional to download?
5) Learn Java - get good - start project. Working on it, good sir, working on it. :wink.gif:
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For everybody else, posting support, updates on development (Zaldarr ;P), and various comments -- Please remember that we're not evolving upwards, we're filling in the blanks. I'm pretty sure wheels and gears came before stone castles, but we don't have them in-game. So did pumps and oars. And TNT? That came way after a lot of what we're proposing to do.
We're not in any way pushing MC to modern-day tech, we're pushing MC to get parts (that it should have by now, given the current "Minecraft time period", if any) that we can *make* modern-day tech out of. This works in the same way that people use redstone (which essentially goes on/off and has a NOT gate) to make a CPU, and TNT to make 1200-TNT cannons.
Having "Modern Day Tech" isn't a bad thing. It allows for more options, the Minecraft Community is very large in size and a lot of people would love a Modern theme as oppose to a Classic theme.
These cities/Mods coming out that gives modern tech allows for more choices is all. People can choose to stick with the older theme and tame horses, etc. Others can go for a more Modern theme and use Vehicles, aircrafts, cities, etc.
Choice is a beautiful thing, and what this thread is pushing for is more choice in the end.
I feel that if anyone want's to question our cause than they should do it elsewhere, as we already have a lot of support, and we are actually the driving factor toward the upcoming car mod. That's a huge step, and UTD started it.
Actually, I got in contact with Zaldarr, and hopefully he can talk to the one who offered to help with vehicles. I'm trying to get a basic wheel block, that works on the MCP Mod System, so that we can get a better idea of how to code the vehicle system. The wheel is the most basic block of the planned vehicle system, because it allows land travel by linking many wheels together (placed blocks, not crafting).
sacre -- Yes, we are offering more choice, but we are trying to make people see that we're offering a good balance between a "classic" and a "modern" feel; after all, I keep saying that wheels came before TNT, and isn't that true? Yet wheels can be used to make something "modern" -- cars, tanks, etc.