Well, if nothing really DOES happen in the next few months, you can look at it legally. By charging for a product clearly labeled as being unfinished, the developer has a legally binding implied contract stating he has to develop and finish a final product.
I am in no way implying people take legal action, but I really don't think the developer has thought through the ramifications of charging for an unfinished product and he clearly hasn't been listening to the community. When 2000 people think gate fences are a good idea and its been almost two months since that came out, that tells you something.
Actually, you really can't go after Notch legally, as you paid for Alpha (or beta) not a complete product.
And I agree... he needs to step things up. His laziness is seen everywhere (I mean, he IS one man so I can't be too cruel). But his 'get satisfaction' blog, look at it. Updated for 3 days, then there has been NOTHING said on it. Another side amusement tossed aside despite how useful it is for feedback from the players, the people who paid him and want him to make HIS game something epic. :sad.gif:
If a game that has been relatively un-promoted has sold close to a million based purely on its concept, then it's not fair to say that this game has reached its market saturation OR sales peak.
I don't think your statement is correct. Just because the publisher hasn't promoted the game doesn't mean it's un-promoted. In fact, I'd say it has been highly promoted in public and social media. Anyone who knows about gaming knows about Minecraft and a whole bunch of people who doesn't game much know about it as well because the "indie success story" made it's rounds on the blogs etc.
Now you would need to reach people who don't frequent the sites that have talked about Minecraft already AND who are at the same time would potentially be interested in playing it. Typing Minecraft into google gives you roughly 5.6 million hits, try "Lord of the Rings Online"and you get 4.4 million hits. Arguably Lord of the Rings is a larger franchise than Minecraft yet there is less content for it on the web. I don't know how to measure saturation but ample content being online could be one way.
How much is it going to cost to reach a potential customer how hasn't purchased it yet, what's the conversion rate going to be, the true cost per new customer? Dunno, though "not cheap" is probably accurate.
I do agree that it's all speculation but if it were you, would you take the money you have for sure and invest it into something where you have very little idea of what the return will be (dev team for minecraft) or would you invest it into something that has a long history of growth (certain stocks, real estate, franchises, etc.)? I know what I would do.
You guys obviously don't know the complexity of making a game, especially a multi-player game. There's a ton a variables to take in to account, and unlike many much larger companies, he can't do one BIG beta for all to test. Instead, we get to use the alpha and Beta as Notch progresses with the production.
Minecraft may seem like a simple game yet it is just as complicated as any other game. For one, it has to generate an infinite landscape, render every texture as it comes (No LoD), and also run AI for mobs and so on and so forth. It's not easy stuff. Thousands of lines of code isn't easy to sort through, I get confused with a few lines of behind game scripts.
Now I can't give you a first hand account for producing a game but I can give it's lesser counterpart, making a mod for a game, in this case, Oblivion. This mod had the simple intention to add the missing weapons in the Amber and Madness weapon sets. We started making this in March, and we only released it in November. We had troubles like lacking skill, collision issues, trouble with UV unwraps (I being the only one who could do them), only one texture artist with two modellers and a small argument that brewed because the team leader didn't know one of our team was a female.
For such a simple mod, it too a helluva long time. Minecraft is a full and unique game. Cut Notch some ****ing slack.
I know the complexity. I've worked with some simpler ended stuff C++ and areas. The design alone is a son of a ***ch as you need to think about balance, and all the ramifications of every addition, for a gigantic audience who has totally different views/tastes. You can't please everyone.
See, the generator, etc, is all fairly simple (not to say it's EASY to make work how you wish, I mean its actual function). The Mob ai is... laughable. It has three functions. #1 attack a target in certain block radius. #2 patrol randomly. #3 jump when in water. That's about it, bar pigmen which are indeed a wonderful step forwards and has sparked my excitement, though it is now getting more complex as you have to have entities interact with each other, and are the building blocks for literal monster civilizations (aka monster towns and such).
Don't get me wrong, it is hard to mix and match code and ensure everything is correct. There's no denying it. It's fact. The fact is, he has millions of dollars and refuses to hire MORE people to help him sift through that code. He has the means, yet he refuses to do so. That's the issue. Not that 'he's a slacker!' I'm not trying to alienate Notch, not at all.
Anyways, let's end this here! No need to rant, right? :biggrin.gif:
You guys obviously don't know the complexity of making a game, especially a multi-player game. There's a ton a variables to take in to account, and unlike many much larger companies, he can't do one BIG beta for all to test. Instead, we get to use the alpha and Beta as Notch progresses with the production.
Minecraft may seem like a simple game yet it is just as complicated as any other game. For one, it has to generate an infinite landscape, render every texture as it comes (No LoD), and also run AI for mobs and so on and so forth. It's not easy stuff. Thousands of lines of code isn't easy to sort through, I get confused with a few lines of behind game scripts.
Now I can't give you a first hand account for producing a game but I can give it's lesser counterpart, making a mod for a game, in this case, Oblivion. This mod had the simple intention to add the missing weapons in the Amber and Madness weapon sets. We started making this in March, and we only released it in November. We had troubles like lacking skill, collision issues, trouble with UV unwraps (I being the only one who could do them), only one texture artist with two modellers and a small argument that brewed because the team leader didn't know one of our team was a female.
For such a simple mod, it too a helluva long time. Minecraft is a full and unique game. Cut Notch some ****ing slack.
Its more the fact that he has an extreme amount of money and pretty much right away after receiving it he started hiring a few folks. Good, but, in reality he only hired one other programmer, who isn't even working on the game. Its possible he may expand outward more but so far Notch just seems to still be under the impression he should be the only one working on Minecraft's source because its his baby.
Can only hope he'll add more people to the team.
Bingo.
He has an executive guy dealing with marketing and such (if I recall), a graphics designer who has done nothing so far that I've seen (he came in after the halloween update), and a programmer who is working on an entirely different game.
It's exactly that, it's his baby and he is stubbornly refusing to realize he has to step back and let others get involved. He will still control it, and it will be his still.
Its more the fact that he has an extreme amount of money and pretty much right away after receiving it he started hiring a few folks. Good, but, in reality he only hired one other programmer, who isn't even working on the game. Its possible he may expand outward more but so far Notch just seems to still be under the impression he should be the only one working on Minecraft's source because its his baby.
Can only hope he'll add more people to the team.
He'll have to. In that mod, we brought in like 3 others to help. Notch can't do it on his own, obviously. But still, it's been a small amount of time and he probably is trying to find someone who can work at his location. Note that, for someone looking for a job in Games design, location is everything. Can you get there? Will you have to move closer? Stuff like that. I don't know where Notch lives but it could be a hard to reach spot for people wanting to work there.
He doesn't 'have to' he can keep going at this rate, with the people he has now, and go the speed he wishes. He owns Minecraft, no one can force him to hire more, nor sell it. He can do anything he wishes, and he will. That's the issue, that's the fear.
And believe me, a programmer in europe would move there to be involved. The pay would likely be very good, and to work on one of the best up coming games in the past 10 years is an honor in itself many would jump at. :tongue.gif:
Hmm. Considering it's in beta I thought we were basically the playtesters. And I've been waiting to say this for a long long time but,
Welcome to the world of indie game design!
Alpha and Beta Testers are brought in free. (point at WOW, ff14, every other major multi-player game online). They do not require you to pay for the game. We paid for a game, and understand there will be bugs, glitches, etc, but never did we click a 'we agree' button to state we will be testers, and deal with sloppy coding that isn't tested in the slightest.
As I said, some obscure bugs are not easy to find for Notch, and understandable. But when you log on and go invisible on death, duplicating your inventory, massive lag, half your map is light half is dark, etc etc in 10 seconds of playing... that's sloppy. Period. :smile.gif:
I totally agree, it's all falling apart, it sucks, etc.
You'd better delete the game, log out of the forums, and go find something better to do.
You obviously haven't read anything that was posted.
He never stated that the game sucked. He just said Notch needs to get things moving otherwise Minecraft is going to go downhill.
Exactly! I love Minecraft. I still do. I just fear that we'll hit a wall and Minecraft will basically grind to a halt due to Notch's inability to see this isn't a hobby, but a BUSINESS now. :smile.gif:
Dude, leave Notch alone. If you were him you would understand.
- Minecraft is sold to a big company, who then turns on us and stuffs fees down our throats for 'expansions', and commercials minecraft, ruining the charm it once had.
Are you serious? If someone took over Minecraft like a big company it would go down. It would lose the awesome indie feeling, wouldn't it? Since they would propblaby change it too much and not do it the right way like Notch is doing.
And we're his testers. Think about it, we're getting Alpha and Beta. We are pre-ordering Minecraft, but getting the versions that are being worked on. You didn't have to buy Minecraft right now, you could wait till Minecraft is finished. But Minecraft is 25% cheaper now because it's in the Beta version, less money - because it's not done yet. Don't you understand that? He doesn't say ''EVERYONE! BUY MINECRAFT IT IS DONE! NO BUGS!!''.
I am not him, and I understand his views. Rather, I see them, not agree with them. He is stuck in his belief that this is a hobby, nothing more, when in fact it is a multi-million dollar business now.
I do NOT want him to sell off, as I fear just that. They'll screw it right up. Please re-read my post and understand I do NOT want this.
We are not his testers. testers are #1 paid staff, called Quality Assurance Testers (I am one for Electronic arts at the moment), or #2 those who offer to test the game for free and help find bugs. When you pay for a game, you pay for a game, not to test it.
We paid less as it is expected to have less content, unoptimized, and have some bugs/glitches that pop up. Not a total disaster each time a update is released which could've been avoided by a simple 30 minutes of testing which all good programmers do. :smile.gif:
I understand the feelings. I feel the same way at times, but only because if things were better, I knwo I could enjoy this game even more.
BUT
We are on a lot of new territory here. This type of game, download only - updated automatically - "often" (As compared to the average game) is still a kinda new category. The whole sandbox - 100% user created game type is still being developed and honed in many companies. This whole game is so involving because its something fresh and new - different from most of whats out there. And the whole Indie game developer thing is still developing, it's only recently started taking off.
In addition, I'm sure Markus is going through many firsts. He's starting a new company, that can't be easy.
The point is this. It's going to take time for him to figure this all out. If he does it can be grand, if in the end it doesn't, it could still inspire many to try their luck. Or he could learn from it and make something better.
Either way, his success depend on us and how he chooses to embrace us - his customers/fans/supporters. He has to establish some standards on how all this should work, because most games/companies, are not this close to their fans as far as interaction goes.
And this as well as the game code, may need a rewrite.
Actually, the updated automatically is not new. Example, x-box live forces you to update to play games on x-box live. Wow, and any major game forces updates to play, etc etc.
I agree the sandbox game style IS unique and new, I am not bashing Notch for any of it so far (lakes are buggy, biomes are sloppy, etc, yet each show a great promise after some fine tuning and tweaking, which makes me really happy to see and I can live with this until they are perfected).
See, problem is, he has a business now. His views are 'ahhh, business is done! Time to go back to normal!' and he isn't grasping no, there is no going back. He is a business now, not a guy in his house coding a hobby, he has new and important responsibilities, whether he wishes it or not.
He can do it. He just needs to wake up and prioritize himself. Hire five programmers, specialize them into terrain, Monsters, etc, etc, and them he directs them in what he wishes done. Poof. He has a well oiled business kicking some ass and making a game. I know it's not THAT simple, but you get what I mean I hope! :smile.gif:
Interaction with your users is key. You need to listen to them, yet not obey them. Take inspiration from their ideas and words, yet mix your own into them and ensure there's a nice balance between everyone. A game you don't enjoy building is a game that will end in disaster :smile.gif:
Yes, the game code will need to be rewritten. It is a throw together and limiting the games development (Notch states so), which if he doesn't hire more help, will take bloody ages. :sad.gif:
"Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later" - Brook's Law
Even if Notch took all the money he made and threw it at people, things still wouldn't change immediately. It might even change slower. If you knew anything about programming, you'd know that. Here's another wikipedia article for you:
You're suffering from The Dunning-Kruger Effect. As someone who hasn't made Minecraft, you have no idea how difficult it is. At all. You have so little idea how difficult it is, you're incapable of even realizing how difficult it is. You're a child looking at a burning train derailment saying "Just push it to make it go".
"But atiaxi!" You say. "I'm a super-awesome programmer and Notch is stupid and dumb and I could do better in a weekend!"
Then shut up and do it. Otherwise, just shut up.
Or, to quote the City of Heroes forums (you know, a game where people pay the same amount you did, only monthly, and still don't gripe as loud):
DOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
Throwing Wiki links at me means it's right... correct? It will slow production in the short term, but in the long term, it will be required.
And yes, the rest of your post is a fanboi trollfest... so I'll not bite :smile.gif:
Throwing Wiki links at me means it's right... correct? It will slow production in the short term, but in the long term, it will be required.
I'm just questioning the patience of the complainers. Someone else here mentioned that Notch had hired an art person in October and we haven't seen anything... it's been two months.
And yes, the rest of your post is a fanboi trollfest
I could say the same (well, the 'trollfest' part) of your initial post. I'll thank you to leave name-calling out of this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This forum ticked me off so much I went to random.org and set my password to something I'll never be able to remember, then switched my password reset to a throwaway.
Well, we frankly are Notch's testers. It's beta, we're beta testing. He's generous enough to let us play when it's not finished yet. He's counting on you to tell him the glitches because he wants to give you more content and fix those bugs. You guys have more free time than him, so you are more abled to find bugs. If he spent more of his time playing and finding bugs, we probably wouldn't be in a position like we are now. He might not have released the Nether because he was testing and we would lose it, putting other updates behind schedule when he fixes the Nether, etc. He probably doesn't want those mod makers to help because he's really the only one with a good idea for the game. I think he likes it that they're separate, allowing players to customize their game the way they want it, not have it be forced upon them.
Sigh... we are not Testers. Testers work for free (look at MMORPGS, they ask for people to test for them for free), or are paid testers from a QA team either on site, or off.
Now to be fair, minecraft doesn't need that kind of work, not at all. It needs Notch to log on for 30 minutes after finishing an update, and testing it himself. If he did this, fixed the bugs/issues he finds, instead of rushing and throwing out the update that then breaks everything, it would safe a lot of grief for others. That's all I'm stating.
Now, harder to find bugs may be missed, and Indeed as this IS beta, we are here to help tell Notch of these hard to find bugs, optimization issues, and such little quirks. I'd rather him be coding then testing for 5-6 hours myself. :tongue.gif:
Working with modders is only a plus, as Notch can choose which he wishes to use in the game. Nearly anything in this game can be turned on or off, added or removed with great ease. Why doesn't he try to make that even easier? (yes, the API, I know :tongue.gif:). His problem is he's like a child with a toy car, and another child comes over with a pretty car and asks 'can I see your car? I'll show you mine' and notch goes 'No! Mine!', which is... not helping anyone.
At the least, I hope he gives mod makers a greater access to the code itself, and encourages them to some extent, even if not officially accepted, as some are indeed brilliant works which add much to this game.
(Yes, I also know he wishes to keep the game 'simple and easy' allowing mods to add to it, the mods I more-so refer to are like Hey0 which add colors to chat, warp commands for convenience, and such non-game altering changes).
I understand what the OP is saying, and agree that many things (especially QA) could be done better.
That said, I still have some faith in Notch. Considering, e.g., this blog post, he seems to be learning from his mistakes. I suspect Notch simply wasn't prepared for Minecraft to get as popular as it did, and that the current issues are just a phase until he gets used to it. Only time will tell whether my suspicions were well-founded.
Don't get me wrong, I still have faith, and hold to it. I am simply stating what I see, and what I fear MIGHT happen and what I truly do not wish to happen to minecraft.
I wish all complaints were at least mature and calm like the OP's post.
Hahaha, I wish I worded it a tad better. But my heads not all here at the moment, tired from work and such things. I did keep it mature and calm as threats, cursing, and raging really solve nothing. I have a view, I have a opinion with facts to it, and I am stating it for all to see and agree, or disagree with. That's all :smile.gif:
I partially agree with the OP. From what I've noticed, the huge succes & following flood of new players overwhelmed Notch. And admit it to yourself, if you made soemthing as a hobby, and it turns out hugely popular with almost a million people using it, you would be overwhelmed as well & make mistakes, some of those you would even make because you're afraid to make them (hope this makes sense).
First thing he has to learn is to let his child, minecraft go, once this is done, he can teach a efw programmers the code of his game (this will be a fase where updates will be slow/nonexistant as teaching the code of the game will be intensive, explaining what everything does, what it stands for, what can be used to add/remove things, what it's capable of, what it cannot do unless changed greatly)
On the topic of using the work of modders/accepting the assistance of modders, this is a very difficult matter. Accepting their help would help greatly; as there's some good mods out there. But to avoid any trouble they have to wave away all rights of the stuff they made, and confirm they will never claim the new inputs as their ideas. (this is on paper). For those modders who would agree to this, they can be added to the credits of the game, or given some fun ingame easter-egg as reward, albeit for some, seeing their hard work in the game would be enough reward.
Certain companies work this way. An example I know of is Egosoft, creater of the X series. They works this way, their latest game X3:TC is actually an official & enhanced version of a mod for their previous game, and several patches(more free mini-expansions) added new content that was made by modders/scripters. This is to prove it is legally possible to add a modders work into a game, proving Notch checks how it can be done without causing legal trouble later.
I 100% agree I'd be utterly overwhelmed at this point of time. To say you wouldn't be is to be a complete and utter liar. No one expects to go from a home programmer to a millionaire in half a damn year. Especially running a business, and such things as well.
Exactly the main issue: letting go of HIS game. It will always be his game. When he has 500 programmers working, who will be called the creator? Notch.
Well, I agree about the modding part. More so I meant he should work with them (as in allow them to access the code more extensively, allow stuff to work together more easily, and keep them in mind instead of shunning them) rather then take their work directly into the game.
"Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later" - Brook's Law
Even if Notch took all the money he made and threw it at people, things still wouldn't change immediately. It might even change slower. If you knew anything about programming, you'd know that. Here's another wikipedia article for you:
You're suffering from The Dunning-Kruger Effect. As someone who hasn't made Minecraft, you have no idea how difficult it is. At all. You have so little idea how difficult it is, you're incapable of even realizing how difficult it is. You're a child looking at a burning train derailment saying "Just push it to make it go".
As a programmer who has no basis upon which I could compare myself to any other programmer, I would just like to point out misconceptions in atiaxi's response, because I feel it's hurtful to all programmers, and our profession in general.
I'm not going to elaborate much on how Brooks Law doesn't even apply to Minecraft, but I urge and encourage anyone who has any shadow of doubt about that to keep in mind that it was entirely developed by a single person, and actually read the Wikipedia article on Brooks Law with *understanding*.
The more glaring fallacy hides in atiaxi bringing up this Dunning-Kruger Effect, which first and foremost assumes an "unskilled" person. Now programmers are not Wizards... as magically at we may seem. We have a good understanding of how software works, and unless it's something that's groundbreaking in it's matter (as in never done before) or execution (as in say.. never done so efficiently before), we have a very good idea about the amount of effort something should take. So either atiaxi assumes that OP has no programming knowledge, or is ironically, himself a victim of Dunning-Kruger Effect, as someone who while unskilled in the magicks of programming, makes an assertion suggesting that Minecraft is somehow coded in a way no other programmer could even try to fathom. Which is simply not true.
Looking at Notch's ToDo-List thing and GetSatisfaction, he is listening to players to some extent with having us support ideas on GS, but he's doing technical work that is slow and doing barely any content updates.
While I know Beta is for bugs, he's going to start losing player base if no content is added, simply because of how unique this situation is. Indie games rarely get this big.
He needs to hire more people to work on content and/or work with the Modders who are working for free out of there own time to make amazing things. Ex. Mo's creatures.
More so he's overwhelmed, and instead of taking the problems head on, and he's recluding to his old habits (humans are not perfect, it's a natural response).
And yes, he needs to get more people for content, but also for bug fixing, optimizations, and various other things that help you enjoy the game.
"Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later" - Brook's Law
Even if Notch took all the money he made and threw it at people, things still wouldn't change immediately. It might even change slower. If you knew anything about programming, you'd know that. Here's another wikipedia article for you:
You're suffering from The Dunning-Kruger Effect. As someone who hasn't made Minecraft, you have no idea how difficult it is. At all. You have so little idea how difficult it is, you're incapable of even realizing how difficult it is. You're a child looking at a burning train derailment saying "Just push it to make it go".
As a programmer who has no basis upon which I could compare myself to any other programmer, I would just like to point out misconceptions in atiaxi's response, because I feel it's hurtful to all programmers, and our profession in general.
I'm not going to elaborate much on how Brooks Law doesn't even apply to Minecraft, but I urge and encourage anyone who has any shadow of doubt about that to keep in mind that it was entirely developed by a single person, and actually read the Wikipedia article on Brooks Law with *understanding*.
The more glaring fallacy hides in atiaxi bringing up this Dunning-Kruger Effect, which first and foremost assumes an "unskilled" person. Now programmers are not Wizards... as magically at we may seem. We have a good understanding of how software works, and unless it's something that's groundbreaking in it's matter (as in never done before) or execution (as in say.. never done so efficiently before), we have a very good idea about the amount of effort something should take. So either atiaxi assumes that OP has no programming knowledge, or is ironically, himself a victim of Dunning-Kruger Effect, as someone who while unskilled in the magicks of programming, makes an assertion suggesting that Minecraft is somehow coded in a way no other programmer could even try to fathom. Which is simply not true.
TL;DR
One person working on a game = Not enough
30 People working on a game hired over a few months = Much better
30 People working on a game hired in one day = Counterproductive
100 People working on a game hired in a short time = Counterproductive
That's only common sense. It's like hiring 50 new employee's with no experience, it would be a disaster trying to teach them all. Where if you hire one per week, the load of teaching and allowing them to learn and adjust to their job would make it far more efficient.
Actually, you really can't go after Notch legally, as you paid for Alpha (or beta) not a complete product.
And I agree... he needs to step things up. His laziness is seen everywhere (I mean, he IS one man so I can't be too cruel). But his 'get satisfaction' blog, look at it. Updated for 3 days, then there has been NOTHING said on it. Another side amusement tossed aside despite how useful it is for feedback from the players, the people who paid him and want him to make HIS game something epic. :sad.gif:
I don't think your statement is correct. Just because the publisher hasn't promoted the game doesn't mean it's un-promoted. In fact, I'd say it has been highly promoted in public and social media. Anyone who knows about gaming knows about Minecraft and a whole bunch of people who doesn't game much know about it as well because the "indie success story" made it's rounds on the blogs etc.
Now you would need to reach people who don't frequent the sites that have talked about Minecraft already AND who are at the same time would potentially be interested in playing it. Typing Minecraft into google gives you roughly 5.6 million hits, try "Lord of the Rings Online"and you get 4.4 million hits. Arguably Lord of the Rings is a larger franchise than Minecraft yet there is less content for it on the web. I don't know how to measure saturation but ample content being online could be one way.
How much is it going to cost to reach a potential customer how hasn't purchased it yet, what's the conversion rate going to be, the true cost per new customer? Dunno, though "not cheap" is probably accurate.
I do agree that it's all speculation but if it were you, would you take the money you have for sure and invest it into something where you have very little idea of what the return will be (dev team for minecraft) or would you invest it into something that has a long history of growth (certain stocks, real estate, franchises, etc.)? I know what I would do.
I know the complexity. I've worked with some simpler ended stuff C++ and areas. The design alone is a son of a ***ch as you need to think about balance, and all the ramifications of every addition, for a gigantic audience who has totally different views/tastes. You can't please everyone.
See, the generator, etc, is all fairly simple (not to say it's EASY to make work how you wish, I mean its actual function). The Mob ai is... laughable. It has three functions. #1 attack a target in certain block radius. #2 patrol randomly. #3 jump when in water. That's about it, bar pigmen which are indeed a wonderful step forwards and has sparked my excitement, though it is now getting more complex as you have to have entities interact with each other, and are the building blocks for literal monster civilizations (aka monster towns and such).
Don't get me wrong, it is hard to mix and match code and ensure everything is correct. There's no denying it. It's fact. The fact is, he has millions of dollars and refuses to hire MORE people to help him sift through that code. He has the means, yet he refuses to do so. That's the issue. Not that 'he's a slacker!' I'm not trying to alienate Notch, not at all.
Anyways, let's end this here! No need to rant, right? :biggrin.gif:
Bingo.
He has an executive guy dealing with marketing and such (if I recall), a graphics designer who has done nothing so far that I've seen (he came in after the halloween update), and a programmer who is working on an entirely different game.
It's exactly that, it's his baby and he is stubbornly refusing to realize he has to step back and let others get involved. He will still control it, and it will be his still.
All we can do is hope, sadly... ;/
He doesn't 'have to' he can keep going at this rate, with the people he has now, and go the speed he wishes. He owns Minecraft, no one can force him to hire more, nor sell it. He can do anything he wishes, and he will. That's the issue, that's the fear.
And believe me, a programmer in europe would move there to be involved. The pay would likely be very good, and to work on one of the best up coming games in the past 10 years is an honor in itself many would jump at. :tongue.gif:
Nooo, *cries*... oh wait... >.> I see through you... *pulls your mask off* AHAH! A troll! I knew it! Shoo!
Alpha and Beta Testers are brought in free. (point at WOW, ff14, every other major multi-player game online). They do not require you to pay for the game. We paid for a game, and understand there will be bugs, glitches, etc, but never did we click a 'we agree' button to state we will be testers, and deal with sloppy coding that isn't tested in the slightest.
As I said, some obscure bugs are not easy to find for Notch, and understandable. But when you log on and go invisible on death, duplicating your inventory, massive lag, half your map is light half is dark, etc etc in 10 seconds of playing... that's sloppy. Period. :smile.gif:
Exactly! I love Minecraft. I still do. I just fear that we'll hit a wall and Minecraft will basically grind to a halt due to Notch's inability to see this isn't a hobby, but a BUSINESS now. :smile.gif:
I am not him, and I understand his views. Rather, I see them, not agree with them. He is stuck in his belief that this is a hobby, nothing more, when in fact it is a multi-million dollar business now.
I do NOT want him to sell off, as I fear just that. They'll screw it right up. Please re-read my post and understand I do NOT want this.
We are not his testers. testers are #1 paid staff, called Quality Assurance Testers (I am one for Electronic arts at the moment), or #2 those who offer to test the game for free and help find bugs. When you pay for a game, you pay for a game, not to test it.
We paid less as it is expected to have less content, unoptimized, and have some bugs/glitches that pop up. Not a total disaster each time a update is released which could've been avoided by a simple 30 minutes of testing which all good programmers do. :smile.gif:
Actually, the updated automatically is not new. Example, x-box live forces you to update to play games on x-box live. Wow, and any major game forces updates to play, etc etc.
I agree the sandbox game style IS unique and new, I am not bashing Notch for any of it so far (lakes are buggy, biomes are sloppy, etc, yet each show a great promise after some fine tuning and tweaking, which makes me really happy to see and I can live with this until they are perfected).
See, problem is, he has a business now. His views are 'ahhh, business is done! Time to go back to normal!' and he isn't grasping no, there is no going back. He is a business now, not a guy in his house coding a hobby, he has new and important responsibilities, whether he wishes it or not.
He can do it. He just needs to wake up and prioritize himself. Hire five programmers, specialize them into terrain, Monsters, etc, etc, and them he directs them in what he wishes done. Poof. He has a well oiled business kicking some ass and making a game. I know it's not THAT simple, but you get what I mean I hope! :smile.gif:
Interaction with your users is key. You need to listen to them, yet not obey them. Take inspiration from their ideas and words, yet mix your own into them and ensure there's a nice balance between everyone. A game you don't enjoy building is a game that will end in disaster :smile.gif:
Yes, the game code will need to be rewritten. It is a throw together and limiting the games development (Notch states so), which if he doesn't hire more help, will take bloody ages. :sad.gif:
When did I say I didn't know it is in beta and it's not done yet? You totally missed my point. Please reread :smile.gif:
Throwing Wiki links at me means it's right... correct? It will slow production in the short term, but in the long term, it will be required.
And yes, the rest of your post is a fanboi trollfest... so I'll not bite :smile.gif:
I'm just questioning the patience of the complainers. Someone else here mentioned that Notch had hired an art person in October and we haven't seen anything... it's been two months.
I could say the same (well, the 'trollfest' part) of your initial post. I'll thank you to leave name-calling out of this.
Sigh... we are not Testers. Testers work for free (look at MMORPGS, they ask for people to test for them for free), or are paid testers from a QA team either on site, or off.
Now to be fair, minecraft doesn't need that kind of work, not at all. It needs Notch to log on for 30 minutes after finishing an update, and testing it himself. If he did this, fixed the bugs/issues he finds, instead of rushing and throwing out the update that then breaks everything, it would safe a lot of grief for others. That's all I'm stating.
Now, harder to find bugs may be missed, and Indeed as this IS beta, we are here to help tell Notch of these hard to find bugs, optimization issues, and such little quirks. I'd rather him be coding then testing for 5-6 hours myself. :tongue.gif:
Working with modders is only a plus, as Notch can choose which he wishes to use in the game. Nearly anything in this game can be turned on or off, added or removed with great ease. Why doesn't he try to make that even easier? (yes, the API, I know :tongue.gif:). His problem is he's like a child with a toy car, and another child comes over with a pretty car and asks 'can I see your car? I'll show you mine' and notch goes 'No! Mine!', which is... not helping anyone.
At the least, I hope he gives mod makers a greater access to the code itself, and encourages them to some extent, even if not officially accepted, as some are indeed brilliant works which add much to this game.
(Yes, I also know he wishes to keep the game 'simple and easy' allowing mods to add to it, the mods I more-so refer to are like Hey0 which add colors to chat, warp commands for convenience, and such non-game altering changes).
Don't get me wrong, I still have faith, and hold to it. I am simply stating what I see, and what I fear MIGHT happen and what I truly do not wish to happen to minecraft.
Hahaha, I wish I worded it a tad better. But my heads not all here at the moment, tired from work and such things. I did keep it mature and calm as threats, cursing, and raging really solve nothing. I have a view, I have a opinion with facts to it, and I am stating it for all to see and agree, or disagree with. That's all :smile.gif:
I 100% agree I'd be utterly overwhelmed at this point of time. To say you wouldn't be is to be a complete and utter liar. No one expects to go from a home programmer to a millionaire in half a damn year. Especially running a business, and such things as well.
Exactly the main issue: letting go of HIS game. It will always be his game. When he has 500 programmers working, who will be called the creator? Notch.
Well, I agree about the modding part. More so I meant he should work with them (as in allow them to access the code more extensively, allow stuff to work together more easily, and keep them in mind instead of shunning them) rather then take their work directly into the game.
Well put, well put *applaud*
More so he's overwhelmed, and instead of taking the problems head on, and he's recluding to his old habits (humans are not perfect, it's a natural response).
And yes, he needs to get more people for content, but also for bug fixing, optimizations, and various other things that help you enjoy the game.
That's only common sense. It's like hiring 50 new employee's with no experience, it would be a disaster trying to teach them all. Where if you hire one per week, the load of teaching and allowing them to learn and adjust to their job would make it far more efficient.