That is great that a 14 year old can reproduce it. But again, given the seemingly randomness of the issue and who it affects, it is well within reasonable logic that no one at mojang could reproduce the issue on their machines.
So, Mojang's team of Devs can make a game, but they don't have the capability to reproduce and troubleshoot bugs, but a single 14 year old can on their parent's PC?
uh... Do you think mojang runs off of cheap weak computers? It is resource intensive to run 3D applications in workspace enviornments, so ofc they have decent computers that can run the game well, and don't notice lag increases.
uh... Do you think mojang runs off of cheap weak computers? It is resource intensive to run 3D applications in workspace enviornments, so ofc they have decent computers that can run the game well, and don't notice lag increases.
I never implied they run off of cheap computers.
In fact, I was inferring the opposite. With all of the resources Mojangs has access to they should have been able to pick up the increased stress on their hardware. They should have noticed that the game was consuming more resources. They should have made sure the update was compatible with different hardware and software. They should have taken the massive amount of bug reports seriously and properly diagnosed the issue.
It's lazy even for java, and people generally agree that java is the slowest non-scripting language, and mc 1.8 in particular has wayyy more assigned memory than it needs, and memory leaks are horrid. There was a pretty good post by skq9 about what is wrong with mc 1.8.
First off, the work ethic of a programmer has nothing to do with the language he codes in. (AKA "lazy even for java" is silly)
Java, CPU wise, runs similar to faster and more native languages (Java has been seen to run maybe 10-30% slower than c++ when it comes to large graphic - based projects, which minecraft epitomizes). Besides, you can always upgrade memory, but cpus are going to be stuck at around 4.66 GHZ for a long time. (And even then, cpus over 3.5 ghz w/ hyper threading are expensive!)
I never said 1.8 was coded nicely, it DOES have issues. But my argument is that Java is the best language for mc to be coded in. The versatility of the language makes it very convenient, universal among all cpus, and easy to integrate with the internet, everything that modern programs should do. It also allows a modding community to exist in the first place. (A significant one, at least)
A rewrite in Java would do much more for efficiency than porting the current code to a more native language. Java is only slow when relatively inexperienced coders use it or when people code in a hurry. (I will admit to being one of those people sometimes D:)
As far as 1.8 goes, I hope to see bugfixes and other fixes soon, but the custom generation is pretty epic (I like being able to have diamond spawn up to pre beta 1.8 levels, so I can actually cave, rather than having to shaft so darn much.)
As far as 1.8 goes, I hope to see bugfixes and other fixes soon, but the custom generation is pretty epic (I like being able to have diamond spawn up to pre beta 1.8 levels, so I can actually cave, rather than having to shaft so darn much.)
Of course they couldn't be bothered to actually add customization of caves; I have no problem at all finding diamonds (nearly 5,000 ore so far, and around 700,000 ores all together, in one world) in the massive Swiss cheese caves of 1.6.4 and before (nearly every surface opening leads down to a huge complex at diamond level (as the Wiki describes here), which then connect to ravines, mineshafts, more caves, etc; no mining needed to find caves; mineshafts and dungeons are also more common in 1.6.4 than later versions), although it is easy enough to mod them back, even using a bytecode editor on snapshots and prereleases (which also shows how easy it would have been for them to add customization; in fact, I even made a mod that does just that - and lets you change the size, frequency, etc of all other structures, even ocean monuments, and would have released it if MCP wasn't bugged).
So, Mojang's team of Devs can make a game, but they don't have the capability to reproduce and troubleshoot bugs, but a single 14 year old can on their parent's PC?
Be realistic for once.
This comes back to what I said before. The issue is seemingly random is who it affects. If it were so easy to reproduce, then it would effect everyone equally regardless, but it doesn't. Use some simple logic here.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cast aside your festive doylaks: dragon stuff is about to happen.
Multiplayer is lonely once you understand how it actually works.
I can say, i'v made mods before for minecraft. It isn't easy to make something.. effictive. and usually, i worry about "how can i make this fun, and compatible with other mods" not if my coding is "proper"
In fact, I was inferring the opposite. With all of the resources Mojangs has access to they should have been able to pick up the increased stress on their hardware. They should have noticed that the game was consuming more resources. They should have made sure the update was compatible with different hardware and software. They should have taken the massive amount of bug reports seriously and properly diagnosed the issue.
This comes back to what I said before. The issue is seemingly random is who it affects. If it were so easy to reproduce, then it would effect everyone equally regardless, but it doesn't. Use some simple logic here.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Minecraft is not medieval-themed!!! As a matter of fact, it doesn't have a set time. And when and WHY did putting reponses in the quote, especially long ones, become a trend in the Suggestions? It's rather inconvenient, mainly since the OP has to gather your quote up manually. Avatar made by Endergirl!
So how is that better than 1.7.10 when everyone was able to play?
Correction, not everyone was able to play in 1.7. 1.7 in general had performance issues, and 1.7.4 I think bumped up the OpenGL version requirement which knocked a good portion of the user base off the "I can play" stand (as they were running on older and/or generally worse hardware).
And again. The lag witnessed in 1.8 is not constant. Some people have lag, some people have no difference, some have significant improvements in performance. I don't know whether or not you just don't know this, or are arrogant enough to dismiss it because you have lag. If it's the latter, please leave the thread as this thread is an open chat where you will find people saying they have improvements in performance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
Correction, not everyone was able to play in 1.7. 1.7 in general had performance issues, and 1.7.4 I think bumped up the OpenGL version requirement which knocked a good portion of the user base off the "I can play" stand (as they were running on older and/or generally worse hardware).
And again. The lag witnessed in 1.8 is not constant. Some people have lag, some people have no difference, some have significant improvements in performance. I don't know whether or not you just don't know this, or are arrogant enough to dismiss it because you have lag. If it's the latter, please leave the thread as this thread is an open chat where you will find people saying they have improvements in performance.
This. When I was on my laptop, 1.8 increased lag exponentially and I found myself nigh-unable to play on it. However, upon migration to my new desktop computer, 1.8 has been shown to decrease lag and have much better performance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(It's "VMod" when used in a title or beginning of a sentence, and "vmod" otherwise. LEARN IT)
Maker of multiple vanilla mods, like these:
Link Removed - Overhauls survival with steeper difficulty curve
Welp. People told me to stop being dramatic or whatever, that this thread would die out on its own. And yet here you all are many months later, repeating the same arguments that we've all seen 50 pages ago.
"It's causing problems based on information that I have no statistics to support!" "They should add this option based off of the information gained from my obscure and uncommon playstyle!" "Let's talk about other versions that have no bearing on 1.8!" "Java sucks as a language!"
Though I'm a bit pleased to not see the most common fallacious three: "It's free!" "Don't like don't play!" and "That's just your opinion!" ...on this page, anyways.
Have we reached an accord yet? Have we all determined exactly how everyone feels about 1.8, and why? Have we determined just how ambiguous the lag is in who it effects yet? Have we figured out just how much Mojang sucks for doing something that ultimately didn't do anything but change out who was complaining about lag and Minecraft's code? Have we figured out just how much Mojang sucks for adding content that we don't care about? Do we need statistics, or a scale or something? I'm willing to even draw up that scale based on "common" opinion!
Now that I've created empirical evidence based on real math that's obviously strong to support my opinion in this field, we can all rally behind it!
I think this thread has run its course. Especially considering how much of the last 30 pages or so have been mostly arguments. We can all agree that 1.8 isn't perfect, but no update ever has been. And we all know that while there are cases of lag, the cases vary drastically and it may be hard to pin down. We're starting to get information on 1.9 now and we can still expect bugfixes for 1.8 judging from the pre-releases. We just have to wait and see.
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Then explain how all the reports of lag got marked as "WAI" (works as intended) in the bug tracker before the 1.8 release?
You are the one assuming that Mojang didn't know about this. I'm the one who actually checked the bug tracker.
Mojang knew people were having issues. That is a fact.
So, Mojang's team of Devs can make a game, but they don't have the capability to reproduce and troubleshoot bugs, but a single 14 year old can on their parent's PC?
Be realistic for once.
I never implied they run off of cheap computers.
In fact, I was inferring the opposite. With all of the resources Mojangs has access to they should have been able to pick up the increased stress on their hardware. They should have noticed that the game was consuming more resources. They should have made sure the update was compatible with different hardware and software. They should have taken the massive amount of bug reports seriously and properly diagnosed the issue.
First off, the work ethic of a programmer has nothing to do with the language he codes in. (AKA "lazy even for java" is silly)
Java, CPU wise, runs similar to faster and more native languages (Java has been seen to run maybe 10-30% slower than c++ when it comes to large graphic - based projects, which minecraft epitomizes). Besides, you can always upgrade memory, but cpus are going to be stuck at around 4.66 GHZ for a long time. (And even then, cpus over 3.5 ghz w/ hyper threading are expensive!)
I never said 1.8 was coded nicely, it DOES have issues. But my argument is that Java is the best language for mc to be coded in. The versatility of the language makes it very convenient, universal among all cpus, and easy to integrate with the internet, everything that modern programs should do. It also allows a modding community to exist in the first place. (A significant one, at least)
A rewrite in Java would do much more for efficiency than porting the current code to a more native language. Java is only slow when relatively inexperienced coders use it or when people code in a hurry. (I will admit to being one of those people sometimes D:)
As far as 1.8 goes, I hope to see bugfixes and other fixes soon, but the custom generation is pretty epic (I like being able to have diamond spawn up to pre beta 1.8 levels, so I can actually cave, rather than having to shaft so darn much.)
Of course they couldn't be bothered to actually add customization of caves; I have no problem at all finding diamonds (nearly 5,000 ore so far, and around 700,000 ores all together, in one world) in the massive Swiss cheese caves of 1.6.4 and before (nearly every surface opening leads down to a huge complex at diamond level (as the Wiki describes here), which then connect to ravines, mineshafts, more caves, etc; no mining needed to find caves; mineshafts and dungeons are also more common in 1.6.4 than later versions), although it is easy enough to mod them back, even using a bytecode editor on snapshots and prereleases (which also shows how easy it would have been for them to add customization; in fact, I even made a mod that does just that - and lets you change the size, frequency, etc of all other structures, even ocean monuments, and would have released it if MCP wasn't bugged).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
This comes back to what I said before. The issue is seemingly random is who it affects. If it were so easy to reproduce, then it would effect everyone equally regardless, but it doesn't. Use some simple logic here.
Cast aside your festive doylaks: dragon stuff is about to happen.
Multiplayer is lonely once you understand how it actually works.
Alpha 1.0.4
Minecraft is not medieval-themed!!! As a matter of fact, it doesn't have a set time. And when and WHY did putting reponses in the quote, especially long ones, become a trend in the Suggestions? It's rather inconvenient, mainly since the OP has to gather your quote up manually. Avatar made by Endergirl!
Correction, not everyone was able to play in 1.7. 1.7 in general had performance issues, and 1.7.4 I think bumped up the OpenGL version requirement which knocked a good portion of the user base off the "I can play" stand (as they were running on older and/or generally worse hardware).
And again. The lag witnessed in 1.8 is not constant. Some people have lag, some people have no difference, some have significant improvements in performance. I don't know whether or not you just don't know this, or are arrogant enough to dismiss it because you have lag. If it's the latter, please leave the thread as this thread is an open chat where you will find people saying they have improvements in performance.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
This. When I was on my laptop, 1.8 increased lag exponentially and I found myself nigh-unable to play on it. However, upon migration to my new desktop computer, 1.8 has been shown to decrease lag and have much better performance.
Like them? Post on them! Say your opinion, or suggest more features!
"It's causing problems based on information that I have no statistics to support!" "They should add this option based off of the information gained from my obscure and uncommon playstyle!" "Let's talk about other versions that have no bearing on 1.8!" "Java sucks as a language!"
Though I'm a bit pleased to not see the most common fallacious three: "It's free!" "Don't like don't play!" and "That's just your opinion!" ...on this page, anyways.
Have we reached an accord yet? Have we all determined exactly how everyone feels about 1.8, and why? Have we determined just how ambiguous the lag is in who it effects yet? Have we figured out just how much Mojang sucks for doing something that ultimately didn't do anything but change out who was complaining about lag and Minecraft's code? Have we figured out just how much Mojang sucks for adding content that we don't care about? Do we need statistics, or a scale or something? I'm willing to even draw up that scale based on "common" opinion!
Now that I've created empirical evidence based on real math that's obviously strong to support my opinion in this field, we can all rally behind it!
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
This will probably never end, open-ended discussions like these typically don't end until much later.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
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