Well, I find BTW to be very noob-friendly as long as the said noob does not mind having to re-start over and over again.
As long as you have the mind to play BTW and keep on playing it, and have a flexible mind, it's actually pretty fun and easy to learn.
Yea but most people come here and see just the windmills. Mentally letting go of your vMC expectations and playing BTW as if it's the only minecraft you've ever known can be a big hurdle to new players, and is definitely the first major one they have to take.
I believe Craftguide is one of the few mods that chooses to take pains to remain compatible with BTW.
Craftguide and MCpatcher should work fine.
(MCpatcher is worth looking at; some of the custom textures for BtW are brilliant)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A mighty machine built within the wake
Of a long dead dream, little demon awake
The citizens sleep, never quite knowing when
The device will reawaken, hungry again.
Well, I see there's someone trying to compare it to creeper dives, by saying there's no way to prevent it. They're not really related in any way though.
Creeper dives, you could *literally* do nothing about. Creepers spawn basically everywhere, in all the biomes, at every elevation. It didn't add anything to the game, it was just a stupid way of killing you while you're playing that was random and unavoidable.
The same is not true for Hardcore Sinkholes. You can prevent them by not entering the desert until you're better equipped, and there's no reason you need to during the early game. You can also use building materials to create a road out of any other material, which is something you should be doing anyways, especially with how much sand slows you down. And lastly, in a worst case scenario, you can simply hold the shift key and take it slowly, and you will not fall into sinkholes; when the block in front of you falls, the game will not allow you to walk into the hole, no matter how hard you try.
The argument being made against the "fairness" of Hardcore Sinkholes is not accurate or appropriate. The same line of logic could be used to argue against any feature of the game. Take jungle spiders, for instance.
"I feel cheated when I die to jungle spiders, as I couldn't have directly done something to prevent the death (apart from say, "Don't go in the jungle"). Sometimes I manage to get away, but the randomness of jungle spider spawning makes me feel like I got cheated when I die to it. I can't blame myself for those deaths. The death isn't directly connected to your actions, it is almost hit or miss whether or not you survive, similar to the creeper dive bombs."
And the same advice given above applies to this sort of situation as well: Don't enter the biome until you're equipped to handle the kind of dangers it presents. Bring the right items with you, depending on the situation, whether that means weapons and armor, or just a stack of dirt slabs. Or in a worst case scenario, just walk instead of sprinting, and you'll remain perfectly safe until you've exited the biome.
These kinds of replies basically come down to "I don't know how to not die, so I'm unwilling to accept that my deaths are my own fault". Somehow I doubt that's the kind of response that was desired.
Not sure how much input from outside the site is wanted, but I'll throw my experience out there in case it's any help.
It has never felt wrong to me to trigger a sinkhole; it feels so natural that I'd have thought it was a vanilla mechanic if I didn't already know otherwise. Not that realism should be much of a consideration, but since this question involves suspension of disbelief: in real life, sinkholes also occur in areas that are highly trafficked. One day, something just gives. And in a world where monsters only spawn within a short distance of Steve, it doesn't strike me as odd that Steve is also the only one triggering sinkholes (though it could alternatively be assumed that sinkholes also occur at other times, since pits can be found with sand/gravel in them).
tl;dr: It seems very fluid and natural, and the mechanic has both improved and deepened my experience.
Yea but most people come here and see just the windmills. Mentally letting go of your vMC expectations and playing BTW as if it's the only minecraft you've ever known can be a big hurdle to new players, and is definitely the first major one they have to take.
True. The one and only reason I came here was actually because of all the 'fancy' stuff. The turntables, crucible, pottery, wind mills, mechanical power, screw pumps.....
Though now, I really don't care about them anymore. I suppose the best way to sum up my BTW experience so far is 'Came for the machines, stayed for the features'
I think you might be able to get one of the mini map mods to work with it, but it kind of goes against the spirit of the mod. I think Rei's minimap might work, but it requires modloader too.
Rei's minimap has not worked for a very long time. The last time I was able to install it was before Hardcore Hunger was implemented.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
IcyNewYear: Screw Slender. I don't need horror games I have Better Than Wolves
Does anyone know where to download BTW for minecraft beta 1.8.1? If you know, pls reply
Edit: Check the changelog to see what the latest version number of Better Than Wolves was for Minecraft Beta 1.8.1. Then do a google search for that version of Better Than Wolves. The link will be on one of FlowerChild's posts somewhere in this thread.
It's cool. Non-binary situations seem to confuse people, so I took down all the links so it'd be clear there's no support for old versions and the answer to such questions becomes much simpler: No
...but I feel that the random spawning has little to do with realism or difficulty and more to do with just giving players a hard time. And if you ask me there is a significant difference between something being difficult and it just being a pain. For example the way you made hunger work out and the fact buckets dont drop source blocks added difficulty as it added realism and made the game more challenging, but when it came to the whole spawning thing it just made the game impossible to play. I mean you've said it yourself (at least a recall so) that its common to die multiple times early game. well when it comes to playing it like this once you die you're basically starting over. In my opinion the only way you can actually make it mid to late game is if you dont die within the first few nights and survive to make a shelter but even then its extremely difficult because to farm or breed animals you have to obtain wheat by traveling thousands of blocks.
I am going to reopen this topic because I missed the "fun" the first time. If you are tired and annoyed by this, please feel free to ignore my comments.
I absolutely love hardcore spawn. I admit that when it first became non-optional, I complained like many others. Here's the thing though, I once started a world and I could not find diamonds to save my life at my original spawn point. As I got increasingly desperate, I got killed while caving because I got careless. At my new spawnpoint, what do you think I found? nothing, I died again fairly quickly. Eventually I landed in a new spawn that had the resources I needed to start moving along on the tech tree. I built a compass to find my original spawn and, over time, built a network of landmarks and roads so that I can get back to my home from almost any spawnpoint after death.
I start getting a little excited after a death sometimes to see where I'm going to start out next. I won't say start over, because that really isn't accurate. all my existing buildings and stored items are still there, I just get to see new parts of the world. I have found places with incredible hills and waterfalls and I can't wait to build a new base there. Dying can be frustrating, especially when you die right after completing something difficult, like that first blaze rod, But Hardcore Spawn is so far from impossible to deal with if you look at it from the right perspective.
For some reason hardcore spawn seems to really like/hate me.(can't decide which).
I died yet again in my new spawn. Ran out of food, and killed when trying to go get a iron nugget for a fishing rod.
And where would I spawn but in my first spawn, with it's big ravine and two ingots of iron still in the chest? But no food here too. So I went fishing, but forgot to bring a axe. This wouldn't have been a problem had I not also forgotten about squids tossing you into the water. So I get tossed, get squid on my head, nearly make it to my base, then die. And where did I spawn? right back where I died(or, the spawn I last spawned at) and at night, so I nearly die again when I run back into my house.
Is this a good thing or a bad thing? On one hand, I'm at my original spawn, which has a ravine which looks like it has all ores but lapis in it, a nice forest to get wood from, a big lake that nets me about 2~4 fish every day(provided I spend the entire day fishing), and a nice supply of wood and stone.
On the other hand, there is no animals, as they are all dead, other than possibly a cow and sheep about 200-ish blocks away, and I have to spend a entire day fishing every other day to not starve.
For some reason hardcore spawn seems to really like/hate me.(can't decide which).
I died yet again in my new spawn. Ran out of food, and killed when trying to go get a iron nugget for a fishing rod.
And where would I spawn but in my first spawn, with it's big ravine and two ingots of iron still in the chest? But no food here too. So I went fishing, but forgot to bring a axe. This wouldn't have been a problem had I not also forgotten about squids tossing you into the water. So I get tossed, get squid on my head, nearly make it to my base, then die. And where did I spawn? right back where I died(or, the spawn I last spawned at) and at night, so I nearly die again when I run back into my house.
Is this a good thing or a bad thing? On one hand, I'm at my original spawn, which has a ravine which looks like it has all ores but lapis in it, a nice forest to get wood from, a big lake that nets me about 2~4 fish every day(provided I spend the entire day fishing), and a nice supply of wood and stone.
On the other hand, there is no animals, as they are all dead, other than possibly a cow and sheep about 200-ish blocks away, and I have to spend a entire day fishing every other day to not starve.
That does sound frustrating, it sounds to me like you need to go exploring. Leave a trail of landmarks (for me these are packed earth blocks usually) so you can find your way home. The animals you need are out there, its just going to take some time. As a side note, I would bury a chicken and a pair of each other animal to come back for later. You don't want to have to go even further out when its time to lure some back to your base.
Is there a way to turn the hardcore stuff of? I checked in the config file but couldn't find it
No there isn't.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I swear to god I must be the only true optimist left on the planet.
Quote from FlowerChild »
See...I kept telling everyone that wolves are evil despicable creatures, but would anyone listen? No, of course not, and now you're all ******, so "haha...told you so".
That does sound frustrating, it sounds to me like you need to go exploring. Leave a trail of landmarks (for me these are packed earth blocks usually) so you can find your way home. The animals you need are out there, its just going to take some time. As a side note, I would bury a chicken and a pair of each other animal to come back for later. You don't want to have to go even further out when its time to lure some back to your base.
Probably. I think I'll get some torches, or at least a large amount of wood, then try to explore. If I find a chicken, I do have a few pumpkin seeds left to lure it, but the place I have are plains, with the west blocked off by a jungle, the north blocked off by mountains, the east a giant marsh with nothing but a few trees sticking out of the water, and the east a forest where I already got ambushed and killed by mobs like 3 times, which makes me scared to go there for anything other then a quick wood-cutting trip. Also, food is a endless struggle right now, because all I have left is fish, and a cocoa farm with 4 just 4 jungle logs.
But my plan of action right now is to fish until I use up all my bait(or my rod, whichever goes first), then go out, bring back at least a chicken, then get iron, make a iron pick, gather more iron, make a hoe, then never worry about hunger ever again.
And I'm thinking that I might maybe make a actual house and not live in a hole anymore. I have a small sugarcane farm, so I think I'll expand that, then build the house out of wicker blocks.
I absolutely love how you developed this mod. The water the necessary to keep yourself hydrated. How you use the animals and that you have to actually 'work' to be able to grow food and how the new products have drastically different uses. I know that you have no intentions of updating to a higher level, and since this mod is a complete conversion. Do you have plans to add anything else to this mod like more drinks like juices from fruit when processed correctly or crushed with pistons. Physics that require you to support floating blocks to prevent them from crashing down around you. Oh something else I was thinking would be a cool addition is being able to write on paper. This would be useful for instance if you are playing a survival game someone else created you can live little hints written down on scraps of paper that 'teach' the player how to do certain things.
Anyway, just curious I love this mod but sometimes It feels like its missing something.
Madam_Guenevere
P.S. Having to maintain your body temperature using thicker clothing/ or sleeping with animals would be a nice addition.
I absolutely love how you developed this mod. The water the necessary to keep yourself hydrated. How you use the animals and that you have to actually 'work' to be able to grow food and how the new products have drastically different uses. I know that you have no intentions of updating to a higher level, and since this mod is a complete conversion. Do you have plans to add anything else to this mod like more drinks like juices from fruit when processed correctly or crushed with pistons. Physics that require you to support floating blocks to prevent them from crashing down around you. Oh something else I was thinking would be a cool addition is being able to write on paper. This would be useful for instance if you are playing a survival game someone else created you can live little hints written down on scraps of paper that 'teach' the player how to do certain things.
Anyway, just curious I love this mod but sometimes It feels like its missing something.
Madam_Guenevere
P.S. Having to maintain your body temperature using thicker clothing/ or sleeping with animals would be a nice addition.
Obviously not FC, but there is chocolate milk. I think FC had considered an additional "thirst" feature superfluous especially since how Hardcore Hunger changed everything. Regarding crushing with pistons there is the Hardcore Packing feature, which lets you turn various items into their block forms: (clay balls, snowballs, flint, bricks, Nether Bricks, Soap, Dung, and the various piles (dirt, sand, gravel, & soul sand)). No other mod really has something like this and it requires some creativity to build it right.
FC has said he doesn't see the value in requiring supports to hold up roofs. Regarding writing on books there are already written books which let you do that. Books and ink or something? I forget the recipe, but that's a vanilla feature.
Supports for roofs, thirst, and temperature are really just features for the sake of features and they don't really add interesting gameplay. There are already benefits/downsides to all the armors, adding another layer to that just complicates it for no reason. And you can't sleep anyway (by design) so sleeping with animals doesn't make sense.
Yea but most people come here and see just the windmills. Mentally letting go of your vMC expectations and playing BTW as if it's the only minecraft you've ever known can be a big hurdle to new players, and is definitely the first major one they have to take.
Craftguide and MCpatcher should work fine.
(MCpatcher is worth looking at; some of the custom textures for BtW are brilliant)
A mighty machine built within the wake
Of a long dead dream, little demon awake
The citizens sleep, never quite knowing when
The device will reawaken, hungry again.
Creeper dives, you could *literally* do nothing about. Creepers spawn basically everywhere, in all the biomes, at every elevation. It didn't add anything to the game, it was just a stupid way of killing you while you're playing that was random and unavoidable.
The same is not true for Hardcore Sinkholes. You can prevent them by not entering the desert until you're better equipped, and there's no reason you need to during the early game. You can also use building materials to create a road out of any other material, which is something you should be doing anyways, especially with how much sand slows you down. And lastly, in a worst case scenario, you can simply hold the shift key and take it slowly, and you will not fall into sinkholes; when the block in front of you falls, the game will not allow you to walk into the hole, no matter how hard you try.
The argument being made against the "fairness" of Hardcore Sinkholes is not accurate or appropriate. The same line of logic could be used to argue against any feature of the game. Take jungle spiders, for instance.
"I feel cheated when I die to jungle spiders, as I couldn't have directly done something to prevent the death (apart from say, "Don't go in the jungle"). Sometimes I manage to get away, but the randomness of jungle spider spawning makes me feel like I got cheated when I die to it. I can't blame myself for those deaths. The death isn't directly connected to your actions, it is almost hit or miss whether or not you survive, similar to the creeper dive bombs."
And the same advice given above applies to this sort of situation as well: Don't enter the biome until you're equipped to handle the kind of dangers it presents. Bring the right items with you, depending on the situation, whether that means weapons and armor, or just a stack of dirt slabs. Or in a worst case scenario, just walk instead of sprinting, and you'll remain perfectly safe until you've exited the biome.
These kinds of replies basically come down to "I don't know how to not die, so I'm unwilling to accept that my deaths are my own fault". Somehow I doubt that's the kind of response that was desired.
Not sure how much input from outside the site is wanted, but I'll throw my experience out there in case it's any help.
It has never felt wrong to me to trigger a sinkhole; it feels so natural that I'd have thought it was a vanilla mechanic if I didn't already know otherwise. Not that realism should be much of a consideration, but since this question involves suspension of disbelief: in real life, sinkholes also occur in areas that are highly trafficked. One day, something just gives. And in a world where monsters only spawn within a short distance of Steve, it doesn't strike me as odd that Steve is also the only one triggering sinkholes (though it could alternatively be assumed that sinkholes also occur at other times, since pits can be found with sand/gravel in them).
tl;dr: It seems very fluid and natural, and the mechanic has both improved and deepened my experience.
True. The one and only reason I came here was actually because of all the 'fancy' stuff. The turntables, crucible, pottery, wind mills, mechanical power, screw pumps.....
Though now, I really don't care about them anymore. I suppose the best way to sum up my BTW experience so far is 'Came for the machines, stayed for the features'
Rei's minimap has not worked for a very long time. The last time I was able to install it was before Hardcore Hunger was implemented.
Is that red thing above the door a banner?
Edit: Check the changelog to see what the latest version number of Better Than Wolves was for Minecraft Beta 1.8.1. Then do a google search for that version of Better Than Wolves. The link will be on one of FlowerChild's posts somewhere in this thread.
You know...I don't post those for a reason which I just explained a couple of days ago, but thanks for nullifying it
I could always just take down all the links I guess.
Sorry about that.
It's cool. Non-binary situations seem to confuse people, so I took down all the links so it'd be clear there's no support for old versions and the answer to such questions becomes much simpler: No
I am going to reopen this topic because I missed the "fun" the first time. If you are tired and annoyed by this, please feel free to ignore my comments.
I absolutely love hardcore spawn. I admit that when it first became non-optional, I complained like many others. Here's the thing though, I once started a world and I could not find diamonds to save my life at my original spawn point. As I got increasingly desperate, I got killed while caving because I got careless. At my new spawnpoint, what do you think I found? nothing, I died again fairly quickly. Eventually I landed in a new spawn that had the resources I needed to start moving along on the tech tree. I built a compass to find my original spawn and, over time, built a network of landmarks and roads so that I can get back to my home from almost any spawnpoint after death.
I start getting a little excited after a death sometimes to see where I'm going to start out next. I won't say start over, because that really isn't accurate. all my existing buildings and stored items are still there, I just get to see new parts of the world. I have found places with incredible hills and waterfalls and I can't wait to build a new base there. Dying can be frustrating, especially when you die right after completing something difficult, like that first blaze rod, But Hardcore Spawn is so far from impossible to deal with if you look at it from the right perspective.
I died yet again in my new spawn. Ran out of food, and killed when trying to go get a iron nugget for a fishing rod.
And where would I spawn but in my first spawn, with it's big ravine and two ingots of iron still in the chest? But no food here too. So I went fishing, but forgot to bring a axe. This wouldn't have been a problem had I not also forgotten about squids tossing you into the water. So I get tossed, get squid on my head, nearly make it to my base, then die. And where did I spawn? right back where I died(or, the spawn I last spawned at) and at night, so I nearly die again when I run back into my house.
Is this a good thing or a bad thing? On one hand, I'm at my original spawn, which has a ravine which looks like it has all ores but lapis in it, a nice forest to get wood from, a big lake that nets me about 2~4 fish every day(provided I spend the entire day fishing), and a nice supply of wood and stone.
On the other hand, there is no animals, as they are all dead, other than possibly a cow and sheep about 200-ish blocks away, and I have to spend a entire day fishing every other day to not starve.
That does sound frustrating, it sounds to me like you need to go exploring. Leave a trail of landmarks (for me these are packed earth blocks usually) so you can find your way home. The animals you need are out there, its just going to take some time. As a side note, I would bury a chicken and a pair of each other animal to come back for later. You don't want to have to go even further out when its time to lure some back to your base.
Here is a guide for getting Minecraft 1.5.2 and installing Better Than Wolves.
How to install Better Than Wolves (BTW) on Minecraft 1.5.2
No there isn't.
Probably. I think I'll get some torches, or at least a large amount of wood, then try to explore. If I find a chicken, I do have a few pumpkin seeds left to lure it, but the place I have are plains, with the west blocked off by a jungle, the north blocked off by mountains, the east a giant marsh with nothing but a few trees sticking out of the water, and the east a forest where I already got ambushed and killed by mobs like 3 times, which makes me scared to go there for anything other then a quick wood-cutting trip. Also, food is a endless struggle right now, because all I have left is fish, and a cocoa farm with 4 just 4 jungle logs.
But my plan of action right now is to fish until I use up all my bait(or my rod, whichever goes first), then go out, bring back at least a chicken, then get iron, make a iron pick, gather more iron, make a hoe, then never worry about hunger ever again.
And I'm thinking that I might maybe make a actual house and not live in a hole anymore. I have a small sugarcane farm, so I think I'll expand that, then build the house out of wicker blocks.
I absolutely love how you developed this mod. The water the necessary to keep yourself hydrated. How you use the animals and that you have to actually 'work' to be able to grow food and how the new products have drastically different uses. I know that you have no intentions of updating to a higher level, and since this mod is a complete conversion. Do you have plans to add anything else to this mod like more drinks like juices from fruit when processed correctly or crushed with pistons. Physics that require you to support floating blocks to prevent them from crashing down around you. Oh something else I was thinking would be a cool addition is being able to write on paper. This would be useful for instance if you are playing a survival game someone else created you can live little hints written down on scraps of paper that 'teach' the player how to do certain things.
Anyway, just curious I love this mod but sometimes It feels like its missing something.
Madam_Guenevere
P.S. Having to maintain your body temperature using thicker clothing/ or sleeping with animals would be a nice addition.
Obviously not FC, but there is chocolate milk. I think FC had considered an additional "thirst" feature superfluous especially since how Hardcore Hunger changed everything. Regarding crushing with pistons there is the Hardcore Packing feature, which lets you turn various items into their block forms: (clay balls, snowballs, flint, bricks, Nether Bricks, Soap, Dung, and the various piles (dirt, sand, gravel, & soul sand)). No other mod really has something like this and it requires some creativity to build it right.
FC has said he doesn't see the value in requiring supports to hold up roofs. Regarding writing on books there are already written books which let you do that. Books and ink or something? I forget the recipe, but that's a vanilla feature.
Supports for roofs, thirst, and temperature are really just features for the sake of features and they don't really add interesting gameplay. There are already benefits/downsides to all the armors, adding another layer to that just complicates it for no reason. And you can't sleep anyway (by design) so sleeping with animals doesn't make sense.