It's funny that everyone going on hiatus, because I'm the complete opposite right now. I was mapping like all day today... lol. Things are looking pretty good. I should prolly post a screeny, but I'm lazy...
Also Happy Daylight savings everyone! (in America and Europe, idk.)
The topic of intersections has popped up several times in the last few weeks, and so I present an extra long* Let's Analyze all about that topic. This episode weighs the pros and cons of Linear-Branching and Open World style maps, as well as proposing some other styles that I haven't really seen. I hope people enjoy, and I'd especially love to hear what people have to think on the alternate map structures!
The topic of intersections has popped up several times in the last few weeks, and so I present an extra long* Let's Analyze all about that topic. This episode weighs the pros and cons of Linear-Branching and Open World style maps, as well as proposing some other styles that I haven't really seen. I hope people enjoy, and I'd especially love to hear what people have to think on the alternate map structures!
*11.5 minutes. So... much... editing...
Spend the ten minutes watching guys! Really good stuff
Kinda agree with a lot of stuff, but gated can be immersive too. I've setup one gate currently, has to do with
players jumping down a pool of lava after finding a map
You can do difficulty gates (you need a reasonable amount of gear to progress), mapped gates (dig the one block over myah), or other stuff too. Doesn't have to be an exact key.
Spend the ten minutes watching guys! Really good stuff
Kinda agree with a lot of stuff, but gated can be immersive too. I've setup one gate currently, has to do with
players jumping down a pool of lava after finding a map
You can do difficulty gates (you need a reasonable amount of gear to progress), mapped gates (dig the one block over myah), or other stuff too. Doesn't have to be an exact key.
You're absolutely right in that gated can be immersive, but I feel that doing it constantly could get really obvious. I definitely like your spoilered idea though, that's an excellent way of doing a gate. I'm also using one on my map, where a note describes the location of an escape tunnel.
...Although as I write this I realize that gated and treasure map are literally the exact same idea mechanically just put in a different context: get item that lets you go from A to B. Interestingly, this really shows how powerful context is for mechanics; I considered the treasure map approach as being far more immersive and exploration based than gated solely because I couldn't think of anything elegant for gated.
By the way, people, I'm pretty much done with the terraforming for my semi-mini-map Pinnacle...
This is pretty much the entire thing. 16 wools, very tightly packed. (Okay, technically the black wool boss fight is in the nether, but whatever.) And when I say tightly packed, I mean it...
This is pretty much the top half of the Pinnacle. White is up at the very top, and magenta and light blue are on the outside of the pinnacle.
Aaaaaaand the bottom half. Purple is actually sort of up and behind the camera, and black is through a nether portal near where red is.
Seeing as it's all so close together, I'm kind of curious to see how speedrunners will handle it... *wink wink* My bet is, there are a lot of wildly varying potential routes. I suppose that the complexity of planning it out makes up for the likely lack of difficulty while playing - it's intended to be an easy map.
So yeah, terraforming (and a few random details) are completed. Just need to finish off detailing the rest of the map, and adding mobs and loot. Then testing - I'm sure I can count on some of you to lend a hand, right? I'm eager to see how it'll turn out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mapmaker and LPer of Complete The Monument (CTM) maps.
Creator/owner of the CTM Community Mapping Server - ask about it on the CTM Community thread!
Current projects:
Thanatos - a subterranean semi-open-world urban CTM
Titan's Revolt - a collaborative project run by ProjectCTM; sequel to Pantheon
Pinnacle - a "sketch" mini-CTM intended for newer players (nearing completion!)
I'm afraid I've got more bad news in the vein of what Infinity posted on the previous page. It's tough to admit, but looking back I should've seen the inevitable.
Yes, I'm putting Dreadsky Depths on indefinite hiatus. I haven't opened Minecraft in well over a month now, and my creative flow has been firmly channeled in other directions away from mapping, specifically writing. I also find it extremely unlikely that I'll ever return to finish DsD, and honestly, I may not even release what I have built. I started working on this thing almost two years ago, and Minecraft has changed so much since then, I just haven't been able to keep up. To say I feel a little foolish for being as adamant as I was about finishing it would be an understatement. My interest in this community and mapping was almost entirely drained months ago; I was really just forcing myself to finish what I started, and there was no enjoyment whatsoever.
Besides the fact that Minecraft as a medium for creative expression seems dated and inadequate to me now, I'm just dealing with so much other stuff, (both online and IRL,) that this community has completely fallen from my view. I'm working 35 hours a week, working on a final paper about Bioethics and human cloning, and juggling social interaction as well. Stuff is taking off for me, so unfortunately I've got to drop any nonessential commitments.
I'm really sorry for anyone I've let down, but I hope you can understand where I'm coming from and respect my decision to let this go. Chances are very high that I'll visit this community in a similar pattern to how Skeeto does: infrequently, but faithfully. I won't be a member of the Admin account for this thread anymore, nor will I facilitate any further Strawberry Jam events. The latter of those spots in particular can probably be filled by whoever feels up for it, but I'll leave that for you as a community to decide.
Can't say much else without repeating myself, so I think I'll leave it there.
nor will I facilitate any further Strawberry Jam events. The latter of those spots in particular can probably be filled by whoever feels up for it, but I'll leave that for you as a community to decide.
As all stories have their bitter points and times of happiness, it seems that this communities and not just ours, is at a bitter time.
I am really sad to see you go Drago, but I entirely and completely understand. Even though you seem to be worse off than me with this, I'll say in a different manner what everyone/ a lot of people have been saying to me: hopefully you can find the time to at least be with us as you normally are/were.
Still, I hope you succeed in your Hellwork (as I've started calling homework/schoolwork ) and generally in your life.
sadly even if this was taken seriously i won't be here this weekend...dangit -.-
Oh well, time for another CAV FEER quality map lol (if you don't know what i'm talking about youtube search "mincrift cav feer spedrun" to see that masterpiece )
I honestly feel that Minecraft has moved away from CTM maps as a genre, and it doesn't appear that new players are coming in to replace all the veterans who have been growing up and away from the hobby. Which is really sad, and of course I'd be a hypocrite if I said it was only the people's fault.
But honestly, as much as a lot of you people advocate the new gimmicks/game mechanics in Minecraft and their use in CTM maps, none of you can deny that they appear to have killed the genre. Back when command blocks were new, when vanilla survival was still the main focus of each CTM map, the genre was still thriving. But now most people who abandon their maps do so because they're worried about them getting out of date, or they don't possibly have the time to update them to the new features demanded in these later versions. If the genre were to devolve back to the realms of custom vanilla landscapes, the simple process of picking up pieces of wool, and not be so worried about keeping up with new technology, then maybe CTMs would be more approachable again. Or maybe not!
I think if Vechs was still making maps then things would be a lot different. I think if this thread was actually updated and used for its original purpose again then this place would be a lot more active (not blaming anyone, just stating a fact!). And I think that if people would actually release their maps instead of dillydallying (:P), making them overly complicated and impossible to finish (guilty) and giving them up then there'd be more life here. But unfortunately none of those things seem to be happening. And that's no one's fault, really. It's just the way things have gone.
CTM revival, anyone?
Completely agree.
If we don't want to make CTM's die a slow death, we GOT to cut down on map creation time. Mapmakers need to be able to release content like monthly or so, if they were to put in a normal amount of time. If mapmakers all quit because they take too long, players will quit too, since there's no stuff to play.
There's still tons of activity in the vechs' hype thread, but in here it's kinda dying, mostly since there's no content available.
Most of the maps being "WIP" when I came here first are still "WIP". Nobody just ever finishes a thing, and I'm guilty of it too.
So what can we do? Few options:
- Cut down on map size, making 3-4 wool CTMs. Would be kinda boring, since one of the fun aspects of CTMs is them lasting so long that you can derp around and do random builds too.
- Cut down on area size, making more smaller areas. This could definitely be a good idea, an area that takes 20 minutes can be fun too, and 16x20 minutes still provides 320 = 5 hours of gameplay.
- Cut down on area detail. A square box can be good too. A simple line for decoration might be enough, you can't really afford to spend 20 hours detailing an intersection, if the player looks at it 10 seconds and then moves on.
- Make it easier to produce content. Make the TOOLS easier and more accessible. Share more schematics, make tools easier (talking to the odd developer out there).
I personally think area size and detail got to be reduced, if we want to keep maps coming out. I don't say we should just make 1 brush stroke, put down ten zombie spawners and call it a day, but we can definitely go back to our roots a little, and just every now and then decorate using just a chest, or making just a few rooms, and having the castle be square. AAA maps are fun, but take forever by indie mapmakers
@ Aimoskeeto I totally agree with you. I think the genre may have gotten a little too complicated for its own good. The barrier to entry seems to be MUCH higher than it was before. And with how long these maps can take to make, you can end up way behind update-wise before you finish. I regret making my map in 1.6.4 when I started cause now that I'm pretty much finished it's two updates behind (although fortunately I don't think anything has been broken in newer versions).
I'm also lucky in that I've somehow managed to find time to still work on my map. I'm actually looking for people to help beta-test the final beta version of my map. The next update I release will hopefully be the final version and I can move on to other things. I've added a lot of new stuff to the map, rebalanced a lot of parts, and changed a lot of areas for the better. If anyone has the time to test, I would really appreciate it. Me and infinity will probably be testing it on a stream sometime this week as well, dependng on various things (MP between Cleveland and obscure parts of Asia may be challenging).
Here are some screenshots of the map if some of you haven't checked it out:
And here is a link to the thread if you would like to see more:
Thanks to anyone who helps me out! I've been working on this for a while so it's nice to be this close to completing it. Also shout out to Kaladun and Pokezelda for your LPs, which are giving me great feedback (although pokezelda's feedback has mostly been in PM's so far).
Edit: Page get, so how about a CQ? What is the hardest map you've ever beaten? Mine was UTII, but it was only so hard cause we did it multiplayer and my friends were awful.
I partially agree with both of you. Yay for debatable subjects for discussion which will recreate the great wall of China
Yes, people might be moving away since there's such a limited amount of things to do (Rock is a good example, with how he plays maps from basically all versions). And yes, with how long it takes to create maps these days, that is probably also a reason. And yes, we don't need to spend 2 years on a map just so it'll be gigantic and as close as perfection as it can be (but y'know, if you're OCD, that's fine....). But IMHO, we could still have large area's that are decently decorated and don't take forever to make if we focused on 2 things: making the tools easier and using them more efficiently (thank you Rubisk for your contributions in this aspect to MCedit), and using more schematics/using them better.
These things seem to be what Heliceo excels at, as as far as I know, he uses basically every tool known to mapmaker kind (except for maybe worldpainter, but I'm not sure about that). As for the efficiency, he's German so there's really no competition there (generalizations that prove/seem to be true =/= racism), and as for schematics, this is something I think we're all a bit lacking on. Alrighty, so you made a nice looking house. Then you made another 3 nice looking houses. You probably can just re-use them and change small details like block variation and whatnot instead of making another 20 houses.
As for tools: it's obvious that certain things have better features or are easier to use than others. For instance, using abrightmoores PNG to Cube or PNG to Block filters are probably easier than making certain things in-game, and probably also more efficient if you let them run while you're doing other things. It's much easier to make a continent with Worldpainter than it is to make a continent with Worldedit or MCedit, and All-U-Want is in most aspects better than the combination of MCedit+TMI (although still TMI has things that are better with it than All-U-Want). Mostly it's all about knowing how to use these tools and using them efficiently.
Thing is, after saying lots of things about amazing maps and having some of them be nearly released/fully released, reverting back to a more okayish level of CTM's isn't a piece of cake, and it very probably might be noticeableby the players and have a negative effect. Still, I do agree that it might be necessary.
PM feedback is not that bad though, it's just my style of giving feedback, since I tend to cover a lot of spoilers about the map in my little area reviews. Posting them either here or on the thread would spoil some of the map, and I don't know how to use spoiler tags... I should really get on that
I just didn't want people to think the only feedback I had gotten from you was from one video on the first area lol. I like the PMs
Also Happy Daylight savings everyone! (in America and Europe, idk.)
(also yes this is an entrance to the area and i havent made the tunnel to it yet)
more pictures
Ohmigosh so preeeetty
Seriously though, I love the work at the block variation, and the sandstone especially brings everything together i think
@theXhen 1 its not suppose to be a cave C: not sure if you mean the hallway is too square or something, thanks for the feed back
*11.5 minutes. So... much... editing...
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Curse PremiumSpend the ten minutes watching guys! Really good stuff
Kinda agree with a lot of stuff, but gated can be immersive too. I've setup one gate currently, has to do with
players jumping down a pool of lava after finding a map
You're absolutely right in that gated can be immersive, but I feel that doing it constantly could get really obvious. I definitely like your spoilered idea though, that's an excellent way of doing a gate. I'm also using one on my map, where a note describes the location of an escape tunnel.
...Although as I write this I realize that gated and treasure map are literally the exact same idea mechanically just put in a different context: get item that lets you go from A to B. Interestingly, this really shows how powerful context is for mechanics; I considered the treasure map approach as being far more immersive and exploration based than gated solely because I couldn't think of anything elegant for gated.
Nice. I like it.
By the way, people, I'm pretty much done with the terraforming for my semi-mini-map Pinnacle...
This is pretty much the entire thing. 16 wools, very tightly packed. (Okay, technically the black wool boss fight is in the nether, but whatever.) And when I say tightly packed, I mean it...
This is pretty much the top half of the Pinnacle. White is up at the very top, and magenta and light blue are on the outside of the pinnacle.
Aaaaaaand the bottom half. Purple is actually sort of up and behind the camera, and black is through a nether portal near where red is.
Seeing as it's all so close together, I'm kind of curious to see how speedrunners will handle it... *wink wink* My bet is, there are a lot of wildly varying potential routes. I suppose that the complexity of planning it out makes up for the likely lack of difficulty while playing - it's intended to be an easy map.
So yeah, terraforming (and a few random details) are completed. Just need to finish off detailing the rest of the map, and adding mobs and loot. Then testing - I'm sure I can count on some of you to lend a hand, right? I'm eager to see how it'll turn out.
Yes, I'm putting Dreadsky Depths on indefinite hiatus. I haven't opened Minecraft in well over a month now, and my creative flow has been firmly channeled in other directions away from mapping, specifically writing. I also find it extremely unlikely that I'll ever return to finish DsD, and honestly, I may not even release what I have built. I started working on this thing almost two years ago, and Minecraft has changed so much since then, I just haven't been able to keep up. To say I feel a little foolish for being as adamant as I was about finishing it would be an understatement. My interest in this community and mapping was almost entirely drained months ago; I was really just forcing myself to finish what I started, and there was no enjoyment whatsoever.
Besides the fact that Minecraft as a medium for creative expression seems dated and inadequate to me now, I'm just dealing with so much other stuff, (both online and IRL,) that this community has completely fallen from my view. I'm working 35 hours a week, working on a final paper about Bioethics and human cloning, and juggling social interaction as well. Stuff is taking off for me, so unfortunately I've got to drop any nonessential commitments.
I'm really sorry for anyone I've let down, but I hope you can understand where I'm coming from and respect my decision to let this go. Chances are very high that I'll visit this community in a similar pattern to how Skeeto does: infrequently, but faithfully. I won't be a member of the Admin account for this thread anymore, nor will I facilitate any further Strawberry Jam events. The latter of those spots in particular can probably be filled by whoever feels up for it, but I'll leave that for you as a community to decide.
Can't say much else without repeating myself, so I think I'll leave it there.
me
next event's this weekend
theme's the letter G
As all stories have their bitter points and times of happiness, it seems that this communities and not just ours, is at a bitter time.
I am really sad to see you go Drago, but I entirely and completely understand. Even though you seem to be worse off than me with this, I'll say in a different manner what everyone/ a lot of people have been saying to me: hopefully you can find the time to at least be with us as you normally are/were.
Still, I hope you succeed in your Hellwork (as I've started calling homework/schoolwork
Well that was easy
sadly even if this was taken seriously i won't be here this weekend...dangit -.-
Oh well, time for another CAV FEER quality map lol (if you don't know what i'm talking about youtube search "mincrift cav feer spedrun" to see that masterpiece
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Curse PremiumCompletely agree.
If we don't want to make CTM's die a slow death, we GOT to cut down on map creation time. Mapmakers need to be able to release content like monthly or so, if they were to put in a normal amount of time. If mapmakers all quit because they take too long, players will quit too, since there's no stuff to play.
There's still tons of activity in the vechs' hype thread, but in here it's kinda dying, mostly since there's no content available.
Most of the maps being "WIP" when I came here first are still "WIP". Nobody just ever finishes a thing, and I'm guilty of it too.
So what can we do? Few options:
- Cut down on map size, making 3-4 wool CTMs. Would be kinda boring, since one of the fun aspects of CTMs is them lasting so long that you can derp around and do random builds too.
- Cut down on area size, making more smaller areas. This could definitely be a good idea, an area that takes 20 minutes can be fun too, and 16x20 minutes still provides 320 = 5 hours of gameplay.
- Cut down on area detail. A square box can be good too. A simple line for decoration might be enough, you can't really afford to spend 20 hours detailing an intersection, if the player looks at it 10 seconds and then moves on.
- Make it easier to produce content. Make the TOOLS easier and more accessible. Share more schematics, make tools easier (talking to the odd developer out there).
I personally think area size and detail got to be reduced, if we want to keep maps coming out. I don't say we should just make 1 brush stroke, put down ten zombie spawners and call it a day, but we can definitely go back to our roots a little, and just every now and then decorate using just a chest, or making just a few rooms, and having the castle be square. AAA maps are fun, but take forever by indie mapmakers
I'm also lucky in that I've somehow managed to find time to still work on my map. I'm actually looking for people to help beta-test the final beta version of my map. The next update I release will hopefully be the final version and I can move on to other things. I've added a lot of new stuff to the map, rebalanced a lot of parts, and changed a lot of areas for the better. If anyone has the time to test, I would really appreciate it. Me and infinity will probably be testing it on a stream sometime this week as well, dependng on various things (MP between Cleveland and obscure parts of Asia may be challenging).
Here are some screenshots of the map if some of you haven't checked it out:
And here is a link to the thread if you would like to see more:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/maps/2162813-depths-of-irkalla
Thanks to anyone who helps me out! I've been working on this for a while so it's nice to be this close to completing it. Also shout out to Kaladun and Pokezelda for your LPs, which are giving me great feedback (although pokezelda's feedback has mostly been in PM's so far).
Edit: Page get, so how about a CQ? What is the hardest map you've ever beaten? Mine was UTII, but it was only so hard cause we did it multiplayer and my friends were awful.
I partially agree with both of you. Yay for debatable subjects for discussion which will recreate the great wall of China
Yes, people might be moving away since there's such a limited amount of things to do (Rock is a good example, with how he plays maps from basically all versions). And yes, with how long it takes to create maps these days, that is probably also a reason. And yes, we don't need to spend 2 years on a map just so it'll be gigantic and as close as perfection as it can be (but y'know, if you're OCD, that's fine....). But IMHO, we could still have large area's that are decently decorated and don't take forever to make if we focused on 2 things: making the tools easier and using them more efficiently (thank you Rubisk for your contributions in this aspect to MCedit), and using more schematics/using them better.
These things seem to be what Heliceo excels at, as as far as I know, he uses basically every tool known to mapmaker kind (except for maybe worldpainter, but I'm not sure about that). As for the efficiency, he's German so there's really no competition there (generalizations that prove/seem to be true =/= racism), and as for schematics, this is something I think we're all a bit lacking on. Alrighty, so you made a nice looking house. Then you made another 3 nice looking houses. You probably can just re-use them and change small details like block variation and whatnot instead of making another 20 houses.
As for tools: it's obvious that certain things have better features or are easier to use than others. For instance, using abrightmoores PNG to Cube or PNG to Block filters are probably easier than making certain things in-game, and probably also more efficient if you let them run while you're doing other things. It's much easier to make a continent with Worldpainter than it is to make a continent with Worldedit or MCedit, and All-U-Want is in most aspects better than the combination of MCedit+TMI (although still TMI has things that are better with it than All-U-Want). Mostly it's all about knowing how to use these tools and using them efficiently.
Thing is, after saying lots of things about amazing maps and having some of them be nearly released/fully released, reverting back to a more okayish level of CTM's isn't a piece of cake, and it very probably might be noticeableby the players and have a negative effect. Still, I do agree that it might be necessary.
I just didn't want people to think the only feedback I had gotten from you was from one video on the first area lol. I like the PMs