The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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1/28/2013
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Minecraft:
CodeChip
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They could considered higher level mobs, just because of how a player would deal with them. I'm pretty sure a flying fire mob is a bit harder than a mob that will shoot you with an arrow every little bit
Some maps use higher level mobs, (like ghasts, blazes, and custom mobs) in lower level areas, (like I1, if it is linear branching).
What do you think about how this works? Should the mobs be debuffed in a way? Or should the spawners be easier to kill than normal?
I think that if you do use higher level spawners, you should keep them the same difficulty, but make spawners easier to kill.
I think it's fine, as long as a) you buff the player. Usually when I have very hard mobs in an area, I'll use potion spawners or stack potions on them to help buff the player. Nerf the mobs. This is also applicable for if, for example, you want to use very powerful punch skeletons, you could for example make them be weaker, have wither so after X amount of time they die, or change the terrain so they'll be less effective. c) Have some factor integrated into the terrain to help the player deal with them, like my punch skeletron example. This could also be having towers with ghast fireball spawners which you can hurl at ghasts, having TNT be on their spawners, have blocks which say where there spawners are, and so forth.
I think there's very little debate about the fact that cave spiders are a "higher-level" mob, and should be used VERY sparingly in early areas. That said, there are a few maps that use early cave spiders pretty well, or difficult custom mobs, or that sort of thing. I think I agree with Chipmunk: If a mob is harder to deal with, the spawner should be easier to deal with. Of course, as Rubisk said, a lot depends on context; mobs can be of wildly varying difficulties depending on what their surroundings are like.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mapmaker and LPer of Complete The Monument (CTM) maps.
Creator/owner of the CTM Community Mapping Server - ask about it on the CTM Community thread!
Current projects:
Thanatos - a subterranean semi-open-world urban CTM
Titan's Revolt - a collaborative project run by ProjectCTM; sequel to Pantheon
Pinnacle - a "sketch" mini-CTM intended for newer players (nearing completion!)
I think there's very little debate about the fact that cave spiders are a "higher-level" mob, and should be used VERY sparingly in early areas. That said, there are a few maps that use early cave spiders pretty well, or difficult custom mobs, or that sort of thing. I think I agree with Chipmunk: If a mob is harder to deal with, the spawner should be easier to deal with. Of course, as Rubisk said, a lot depends on context; mobs can be of wildly varying difficulties depending on what their surroundings are like.
I still don't see why cave spiders are OP in early areas. Since you don't have armour, they "penetrate" just as good as zombies.
On normal, a cave spiders deals 1/2 heart, plus 2 1/2 heart of poison damage, aka 3 hearts a hit. A zombie deals 2 hearts a hit, at full HP. Zombies deal % more damage on % of health missing though, so a zombie with 3 hits on a wooden sword misses about 80%, AKA deals almost 4 hearts of damage.
With that:
- Zombies will call all zombies within a 32 block sphere range to start pathing to the player, even on easy. This makes it so natural-spawn zombies will attack in groups of five+ in bigger areas, making player burn through their food and sword durability extremely fast.
- If you get hit by a cave spider, it only deals a little bit more damage, usually about 1- 1 1/2 hearts extra, since you overwrite the poison. Every zombie hit deals the same amount of damage. With that, if you're at 3 HP and get hit by a cave spider once, you're not dead, while a zombie at low HP will kill you.
And yes, I know spiders are harder to hit in face-to-face combat, but I would never make a first dungeon an open-wide area containing cave spiders. In enclosed areas, they are way less likely to hit you.
Cave spiders start being a threat when you play at hard (but then you shouldn't complain about balance, imho), or when you have tons of armour stacked up and get swarmed by them just like you get swarmed by everything else.
I still don't see why cave spiders are OP in early areas. Since you don't have armour, they "penetrate" just as good as zombies.
On normal, a cave spiders deals 1/2 heart, plus 2 1/2 heart of poison damage, aka 3 hearts a hit. A zombie deals 2 hearts a hit, at full HP. Zombies deal % more damage on % of health missing though, so a zombie with 3 hits on a wooden sword misses about 80%, AKA deals almost 4 hearts of damage.
With that:
- Zombies will call all zombies within a 32 block sphere range to start pathing to the player, even on easy. This makes it so natural-spawn zombies will attack in groups of five+ in bigger areas, making player burn through their food and sword durability extremely fast.
- If you get hit by a cave spider, it only deals a little bit more damage, usually about 1- 1 1/2 hearts extra, since you overwrite the poison. Every zombie hit deals the same amount of damage. With that, if you're at 3 HP and get hit by a cave spider once, you're not dead, while a zombie at low HP will kill you.
And yes, I know spiders are harder to hit in face-to-face combat, but I would never make a first dungeon an open-wide area containing cave spiders. In enclosed areas, they are way less likely to hit you.
Cave spiders start being a threat when you play at hard (but then you shouldn't complain about balance, imho), or when you have tons of armour stacked up and get swarmed by them just like you get swarmed by everything else.
"Early area" does not mean "no armor". It generally means "poor quality (often unenchanted) armor, which protects better against zombies than cave spiders." In addition, as you pointed out, cave spiders do more damage. What's more, they do damage over time, whereas zombies - if they hit you at all - will probably just hit you once. Zombies, even in large groups, are often easier to deal with in enclosed areas - just block off the path they're coming from. Cave spiders, being able to fit through half-block-high, block-wide gaps, are much harder to protect against. Cave spiders may be less likely to hit you in enclosed areas, but they're still more likely to hit you than a zombie. Cave spiders are also much faster, and with their "lunge" attack, it's hard to hit them before they hit you. Because zombies are slow, it's easy to block them off, even if they *are* swarming you. Cave spiders swarming can mean near-instant death in enclosed areas. You can't back up fast enough to block them off like you can do with zombies.
Also: Where on earth did you get the idea that zombies do more damage if they're at lower health? Everything I can find on the subject puts their damage at exactly 2 hearts on normal difficulty.
Also also: What, just because someone's playing on hard means they can't complain about balance? I feel like maps should be balanced for every difficulty. Saying your map is "balanced around normal" just means that the intended difficulty for the average player can be found at normal. There will always be players who play on easy or hard, and saying your map is balanced around normal does not give you freedom to neglect the other difficulties.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mapmaker and LPer of Complete The Monument (CTM) maps.
Creator/owner of the CTM Community Mapping Server - ask about it on the CTM Community thread!
Current projects:
Thanatos - a subterranean semi-open-world urban CTM
Titan's Revolt - a collaborative project run by ProjectCTM; sequel to Pantheon
Pinnacle - a "sketch" mini-CTM intended for newer players (nearing completion!)
"Early area" does not mean "no armor". It generally means "poor quality (often unenchanted) armor, which protects better against zombies than cave spiders." In addition, as you pointed out, cave spiders do more damage. What's more, they do damage over time, whereas zombies - if they hit you at all - will probably just hit you once. Zombies, even in large groups, are often easier to deal with in enclosed areas - just block off the path they're coming from. Cave spiders, being able to fit through half-block-high, block-wide gaps, are much harder to protect against. Cave spiders may be less likely to hit you in enclosed areas, but they're still more likely to hit you than a zombie. Cave spiders are also much faster, and with their "lunge" attack, it's hard to hit them before they hit you. Because zombies are slow, it's easy to block them off, even if they *are* swarming you. Cave spiders swarming can mean near-instant death in enclosed areas. You can't back up fast enough to block them off like you can do with zombies.
Also: Where on earth did you get the idea that zombies do more damage if they're at lower health? Everything I can find on the subject puts their damage at exactly 2 hearts on normal difficulty.
Also also: What, just because someone's playing on hard means they can't complain about balance? I feel like maps should be balanced for every difficulty. Saying your map is "balanced around normal" just means that the intended difficulty for the average player can be found at normal. There will always be players who play on easy or hard, and saying your map is balanced around normal does not give you freedom to neglect the other difficulties.
(Decompiled game code, to check), wiki, test results.
And balancing around multiple difficulties is really tough. Cave spiders are, for example, more vulnerable to difficulty changes then zombies or skellies. I'd rather upload multiple versions of a map, and use a filter to increase/decrease spawn delays by X percent, then using that setting. But that's just me.
"In addition, as you pointed out, cave spiders do more damage. What's more, they do damage over time, whereas zombies - if they hit you at all - will probably just hit you once.". DoT is actually weaker then direct damage, since if you get hit twice by DoT, it only adds .5 hearts, where as with zombies every hit will count fully.
I still don't see why cave spiders are OP in early areas. Since you don't have armour, they "penetrate" just as good as zombies.
On normal, a cave spiders deals 1/2 heart, plus 2 1/2 heart of poison damage, aka 3 hearts a hit. A zombie deals 2 hearts a hit, at full HP. Zombies deal % more damage on % of health missing though, so a zombie with 3 hits on a wooden sword misses about 80%, AKA deals almost 4 hearts of damage.
With that:
- Zombies will call all zombies within a 32 block sphere range to start pathing to the player, even on easy. This makes it so natural-spawn zombies will attack in groups of five+ in bigger areas, making player burn through their food and sword durability extremely fast.
- If you get hit by a cave spider, it only deals a little bit more damage, usually about 1- 1 1/2 hearts extra, since you overwrite the poison. Every zombie hit deals the same amount of damage. With that, if you're at 3 HP and get hit by a cave spider once, you're not dead, while a zombie at low HP will kill you.
And yes, I know spiders are harder to hit in face-to-face combat, but I would never make a first dungeon an open-wide area containing cave spiders. In enclosed areas, they are way less likely to hit you.
Cave spiders start being a threat when you play at hard (but then you shouldn't complain about balance, imho), or when you have tons of armour stacked up and get swarmed by them just like you get swarmed by everything else.
Oh I never thought of that. I guess i'll just spam a good loaf cave spider spawners then...
I'd defo say DoT isn't weaker in most cases, since if you get hit at all it's usually only once... but context matters as per usual.
As for harder mobs in early areas, I think it would be best to stick with weak custom mobs to ease inexperienced players into an average map. Gotta keep in mind that natural spawns are usually hardest to balance for in early areas.
You are loading a filter called brush. That filter refers to a module (function, piece of code) called operation, but either doesn't import, or doesn't contain operation. What where you trying to do, what filter are you using, and what does the console (cmd box) say?
You are loading a filter called brush. That filter refers to a module (function, piece of code) called operation, but either doesn't import, or doesn't contain operation. What where you trying to do, what filter are you using, and what does the console (cmd box) say?
It happens every time I hit the filter thingy on mcedit. As far as I know I can still use filters, but idk. This is the last thing I saw on Console about Mcedit, but idk if I'm using the console you have in mind.
It happens every time I hit the filter thingy on mcedit. As far as I know I can still use filters, but idk. This is the last thing I saw on Console about Mcedit, but idk if I'm using the console you have in mind.
you have a brush filter installed, what brush filter are you using? What are you trying to do? I can't read Mac code, dunno about that.
When I run mcedit, two programs run, a console (cmd exe) and a mcedit thingy. What does run on your mac?
you have a brush filter installed, what brush filter are you using? What are you trying to do? I can't read Mac code, dunno about that.
When I run mcedit, two programs run, a console (cmd exe) and a mcedit thingy. What does run on your mac?
It looks like I fixed the problem... I did have this brush filter that I guess was messing me up. Thanks for helping me out! As far as I know (which I know nothing) no other program is running, but i'm stupid and have no idea.
It looks like I fixed the problem... I did have this brush filter that I guess was messing me up. Thanks for helping me out! As far as I know (which I know nothing) no other program is running, but i'm stupid and have no idea.
(Guessing here) but I think you installed my brush.py as a filter instead of an actual script, right?
@goldentwister, you should browse to something like:
C:\<some random path>\MCEdit_dev.app\MCEdit_dev-0.1.8build799.macosx-10_6-x86_64\MCEdit_dev.app\Contents\Resources\lib\python2.7\site-packages.zip\editortools. There you can replace brush.pyo with my brush.py for it to work.
@goldentwister, you should browse to something like:
C:\<some random path>\MCEdit_dev.app\MCEdit_dev-0.1.8build799.macosx-10_6-x86_64\MCEdit_dev.app\Contents\Resources\lib\python2.7\site-packages.zip\editortools. There you can replace brush.pyo with my brush.py for it to work.
Hm so guys, what are tools I can use to build stuff in 1.8 since craftbukkit doesn't exist?
Would appreciate links and such (on my server I used WorldEdit, VoxelSniper and BuildCommands)
Btw.
(1/7/13)UPDATE 2: Build Commands 2 is now Build Commands SE and will be coming within the next week or two. It is now a standalone mod, and no longer requires SPC or Worldedit to use, and is completely compatible with 1.7.2 and 1.7.4. So make sure to keep an eye out for it!
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Curse PremiumI think it's fine, as long as a) you buff the player. Usually when I have very hard mobs in an area, I'll use potion spawners or stack potions on them to help buff the player.
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Curse PremiumI still don't see why cave spiders are OP in early areas. Since you don't have armour, they "penetrate" just as good as zombies.
On normal, a cave spiders deals 1/2 heart, plus 2 1/2 heart of poison damage, aka 3 hearts a hit. A zombie deals 2 hearts a hit, at full HP. Zombies deal % more damage on % of health missing though, so a zombie with 3 hits on a wooden sword misses about 80%, AKA deals almost 4 hearts of damage.
With that:
- Zombies will call all zombies within a 32 block sphere range to start pathing to the player, even on easy. This makes it so natural-spawn zombies will attack in groups of five+ in bigger areas, making player burn through their food and sword durability extremely fast.
- If you get hit by a cave spider, it only deals a little bit more damage, usually about 1- 1 1/2 hearts extra, since you overwrite the poison. Every zombie hit deals the same amount of damage. With that, if you're at 3 HP and get hit by a cave spider once, you're not dead, while a zombie at low HP will kill you.
And yes, I know spiders are harder to hit in face-to-face combat, but I would never make a first dungeon an open-wide area containing cave spiders. In enclosed areas, they are way less likely to hit you.
Cave spiders start being a threat when you play at hard (but then you shouldn't complain about balance, imho), or when you have tons of armour stacked up and get swarmed by them just like you get swarmed by everything else.
"Early area" does not mean "no armor". It generally means "poor quality (often unenchanted) armor, which protects better against zombies than cave spiders." In addition, as you pointed out, cave spiders do more damage. What's more, they do damage over time, whereas zombies - if they hit you at all - will probably just hit you once. Zombies, even in large groups, are often easier to deal with in enclosed areas - just block off the path they're coming from. Cave spiders, being able to fit through half-block-high, block-wide gaps, are much harder to protect against. Cave spiders may be less likely to hit you in enclosed areas, but they're still more likely to hit you than a zombie. Cave spiders are also much faster, and with their "lunge" attack, it's hard to hit them before they hit you. Because zombies are slow, it's easy to block them off, even if they *are* swarming you. Cave spiders swarming can mean near-instant death in enclosed areas. You can't back up fast enough to block them off like you can do with zombies.
Also: Where on earth did you get the idea that zombies do more damage if they're at lower health? Everything I can find on the subject puts their damage at exactly 2 hearts on normal difficulty.
Also also: What, just because someone's playing on hard means they can't complain about balance? I feel like maps should be balanced for every difficulty. Saying your map is "balanced around normal" just means that the intended difficulty for the average player can be found at normal. There will always be players who play on easy or hard, and saying your map is balanced around normal does not give you freedom to neglect the other difficulties.
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Curse Premium(Decompiled game code, to check), wiki, test results.
And balancing around multiple difficulties is really tough. Cave spiders are, for example, more vulnerable to difficulty changes then zombies or skellies. I'd rather upload multiple versions of a map, and use a filter to increase/decrease spawn delays by X percent, then using that setting. But that's just me.
"In addition, as you pointed out, cave spiders do more damage. What's more, they do damage over time, whereas zombies - if they hit you at all - will probably just hit you once.". DoT is actually weaker then direct damage, since if you get hit twice by DoT, it only adds .5 hearts, where as with zombies every hit will count fully.
Oh I never thought of that.
Why don't post just link together anymore...?
As for harder mobs in early areas, I think it would be best to stick with weak custom mobs to ease inexperienced players into an average map. Gotta keep in mind that natural spawns are usually hardest to balance for in early areas.
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Curse PremiumYou are loading a filter called brush. That filter refers to a module (function, piece of code) called operation, but either doesn't import, or doesn't contain operation. What where you trying to do, what filter are you using, and what does the console (cmd box) say?
It happens every time I hit the filter thingy on mcedit. As far as I know I can still use filters, but idk. This is the last thing I saw on Console about Mcedit, but idk if I'm using the console you have in mind.
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Curse Premiumyou have a brush filter installed, what brush filter are you using? What are you trying to do? I can't read Mac code, dunno about that.
When I run mcedit, two programs run, a console (cmd exe) and a mcedit thingy. What does run on your mac?
It looks like I fixed the problem...
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Curse Premium(Guessing here) but I think you installed my brush.py as a filter instead of an actual script, right?
Maybe...
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Curse Premiumhttp://www.mediafire.com/download/ffd49cmkjdgudoq/brush.py
@goldentwister, you should browse to something like:
C:\<some random path>\MCEdit_dev.app\MCEdit_dev-0.1.8build799.macosx-10_6-x86_64\MCEdit_dev.app\Contents\Resources\lib\python2.7\site-packages.zip\editortools. There you can replace brush.pyo with my brush.py for it to work.
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Also, erosion is overrated.
needs erosion
Would appreciate links and such (on my server I used WorldEdit, VoxelSniper and BuildCommands)
Btw.
It's been only a year and 3 months kek
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Curse PremiumMcedit.