I was wondering, do you consider that these XRAY packs ruin the game for some people who do not realise this problem in advance?
If they don't predict that that will ever be an issue for them and it ends up becoming one, then, yes, because in your example, it became one. If, in another example, it doesn't become an issue for them, then nope.
Quote from GeekRichieUK »
If you want to 'cheat' in singleplayer to give yourself massive amounts of items to build monuments with, why not use an inventory editor?
To some, that's going too far, whereas playing Minecraft while using an x-ray texture pack, to them, isn't nearly as game-breaking an experience as is flying around with an infinite supply of every block and item at their disposal.
Quote from GeekRichieUK »
If you want to 'cheat' in multiplayer, why play with others and spoil everyone elses fun along with your own?
Because some people don't see it as spoiling other peoples' fun when it literally has no direct effect on anyone but the person using it. I, personally, enjoy going out of my way to help others on SMP servers with such things as these, because it's always worth hearing that "thanks :)" or seeing that relief as they dig around a tunnel which had a creeper in it that they couldn't see.
Also, seeing as how this pack is publicly available, that's no different from you choosing to use an iron pickaxe when you have a ready supply of diamond in a chest of yours, then voicing how unfair it is that other people you're playing with are choosing to use diamond pickaxes. It's your choice to self-impose that unfairness, which, in my opinion, isn't unfair in the slightest since, again, anyone can use it/them. As it's your choice not to use it/them, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Quote from GeekRichieUK »
and there are probably some legitimate reasons for using an XRAY mod
Most of which can be read in the first post at the top of the thread.
Sorry if any of this came off as too direct or harsh, I'm too sleepy at the moment to think of a more polite way to phrase all of this. Goodnight.
@Eraiya - You shouldn't be apologizing, you've made a texture pack that I adore! And while I'd appreciate more transparent cobble, I don't want to make you do a bunch of extra fiddling just for me.
Oh, and I'd just like to mention that I actually like the bright, cartoony look of the pack. So don't lose too much sleep over rushing out improvements! :tongue.gif:
@GeekRichieUK - Personally I find the x-ray pack to be not nearly as game breaking as you suggest it is. It doesn't mine blocks for you, it doesn't secure dungeons or make you invulnerable to damage. And like many have stated before in this thread, it only shows ores that are already exposed in natural caves. The only thing I could see breaking the game for some people would be the ability to safely scout a cave for enemies (which, being a nervous cave explorer, is actually what makes this pack make the game playable for me).
It really all comes down to how you choose to use the pack and play the game itself. You can always add or take away challenges to make the game more enjoyable for yourself. While some people might want to have to fight monsters to collect the items they drop, others might prefer just building a mob trap so that they can easily have and use the items. The suggestion of regulating modifications to the game like this one seems all too similar to someone, for example, asking to remove portals or minecarts from the game because they make travel too fast and safe. If someone felt that way,it's as simple as not using aforementioned methods of travel. That's one of the great things about Minecraft and the many mods for it, there are very limited restrictions on how you can choose to play the game. :smile.gif:
I understand you put in lots of work blah blah blah.
But really, this is just ruining the game. Too many people are abusing these texture packs. If you had any care for Minecraft and it's developers you would give up this tirade. I understand maybe some people use these texture packs reasonably but most of the people do not. A lot of multiplayer servers are ruined by resources being taken. Peoples chests cannot be hidden. All the resources are taken very quickly from a map allowing people using these texture packs to cheat their way to the top. I realize that you can do whatever you want and this isn't against minecraft rules but I don't see a point in even having these. For singleplayer use is great but you should make it so it is unusable for multiplayer.
Minecraft was created so you could tunnel your way around and find resources. If he wanted people to just be able to see lava, monsters and any hazards he would have put some sort of x-ray function into the game. Obviosuly he does not want this in his game. For these reasons x-ray texture packs should be banned from multiplayer. Good work, just not for the right reasons :tongue.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I would sign my name hence this being a signature, but the keyboard prevents me. So I will just say hello. Why not check out the great gaming website I currently write for Here.
Like the readme says, you're NOT supposed to cut them out of the .zip folder, silly. =P
Evion - Explain to me in detail how it ruins the game; I'm interested in hearing why you think that. Many people have said that, very few have offered explanations- of the explanations I've been provided with, I've made compelling counterarguments against all of them which resulted in the person in question being unable to provide any counterargument to mine.
Based on the number of people who've posted here and messaged me, thanking me for providing this service for them, I daresay it's a more caring thing for me to put my best effort into making these packs for the community.
Too many resources are being taken, and there's not enough for you? Good news! The game can generate maps eight times the size of the Earth, with each chunk spawned having its own, valuable resources. You'll be fine, I promise. :smile.gif:
If you're playing on a server that chooses not to install a chest-securing plugin such as Lightweight Chest Protection, Chastity Chest, Chest Protect, or any of the other chest protecting plugins out there, then you should be prepared for untrustworthy people to steal from you. While my texture pack would aid a dishonest player in finding chests if yours are hidden, I can't accept all the blame here when you're choosing not to recommend chest-protecting plugins to the owner, or, if you have, choosing to continue to play on that server.
That's exactly it- you don't see the point in having these. You can see a use for it in single player, but you don't like it in multiplayer. I've met people who felt the opposite way; they thought it was great for multiplayer, but didn't see the point of using it in single player. Likewise, there are people who've enjoyed using it for both multiplayer as well as single player, and there will always be those who disapprove of it totally. What matters here is how you feel about it. Since I feel I'm sharing something helpful with the community more than I feel that it's something that hurts people, I can take pride in the fact that I made these for you people. I understand that not all of you will feel the same way. But, unless you're going to provide me with reason after reason after reason that I cannot come up with a logical counterpoint to, then my views won't change, and I'll keep doing what I think is right to help as many people as I can. Making x-ray texture packs, among other things.
Tying in with the above, saying that "Minecraft was created so [blank]" isn't very different from saying, "The meaning of life is [blank]." It's a matter of opinion, something that can vary wildly from person to person, yet still be 100% true for everyone. While you believe that Minecraft was created so you could tunnel your way around and find resources, some people believe that Minecraft was made as a game, one which was meant to be as entertaining as possible. To some of these people, the thrill of resource gathering eventually wears off, and they grow tired of exploring caves or setting up strip mines, relying on blind luck to find the materials they need to achieve their goals. That's where I come in: to help level the playing field a bit, and help them have more fun with a game before they stop enjoying it altogether. :smile.gif: To me, that's good work, and it's for the right reasons. I'll do my best to understand that you feel that helping others is a bad thing.
It's not possible to make it work for single player, but not multiplayer, without editing lines of code, and that's not something I'm into.
I did not know that you know what Notch does and does not want in the game. I now realize that you are a wizard, and I apologize for speaking such heresy against you.
Obviously Notch doesn't want this in his game. I don't know what he thinks and I cannot read minds but really why would he make a game called MINEcraft. Mining is a crucial part in the whole game experience. With this texture pack all you do is hit invisible blocks chasing some Blue block to reach all of the diamonds in the whole area. You see a creeper and change your direction. You see lava and you change your direction. There is no fun in knowing what is behind every block of rock. There is in opening a hole in a rock to find skeletons firing arrows at you. Or seeing lava start to pour through as you silence it with a placement of cobblestone. That is what makes minecraft so different from other games. I miss the old days with a minimal amount of hackers and exploiters. Now every server I join has been taken over by people abusing x-ray texture packs. This just takes all the fun out of minecraft. Sure you can get resources faster and build better things without wasting time searching forever. But things like inventory edit or Loleditor can help with that and isn't usable directly in multiplayer. If people just wanted to find all the resources and build amazing things they can do that. But save it for single player. I don't see a point in playing on a Vanilla server where players have cheated their way to all the resources. For one thing it isn't fair to the honest players who put in the time and effort. And it isn't fair to the people who have made the server for people to play on and socialize. Having a couple of people vastly further ahead with full diamond and all the diamond tools totally unbalances the playing field. If he wanted to make a game where you just see resources through invisible blocks then that would be the game he created. However, it is not. He created minecraft. An amazingly creative mining, creating and exploring kind of game. If you feel that you are helping people by cheating a small portion of players to the top. Well then congratulations you have done that. But you have also let loose a texture pack giving power into too many immature peoples hands. People that abuse these to find every loop hole in the game. People use it to their advantage and their advantage only. You can counter argue all you want but no matter what, this texture pack still ruins the game. Even if the thrill of resource gathering wears of it is still part of the game. If people don't like that then they can stop playing. Notch has made many shortcuts already making the game way easier. Charcoal which you can make torches without having to find coal. Still x-ray texture packs still isn't in the game. Why? For the exact reason I am arguing. He does not want this in his game. Simple as that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I would sign my name hence this being a signature, but the keyboard prevents me. So I will just say hello. Why not check out the great gaming website I currently write for Here.
"I don't know what Notch thinks and I cannot read minds but, really, why would he make a game called MINEcraft. Mining is a crucial part in the whole game experience."
By that same logic, I'm ashamed that you're taking the CRAFTing aspects of the game so lightly, and putting so much emphasis on the mining aspects of the game. ... But, really, let's be serious. You don't play Killing Floor to violently assault the ground. While the title of a game can be used to give the end user an idea of what they're in for, using the title of the game itself as a defense for an argument is just plain silly. Review the aforementioned Killing Floor example for more insight.
"With this texture pack all you do is hit invisible blocks chasing some Blue block to reach all of the diamonds in the whole area."
First, that's a gross oversimplification, and completely false. What you're referring to are clientside modifications to how the game renders blocks; mods like X-Ray 8.0 are what you're thinking of. I couldn't make my texture pack reveal ALL the diamonds in an area if I wanted to- without modifying lines of code- and believe me, I want to. That aside, the other examples- avoiding creepers and lava- are 100% valid. My texture packs can help you do just that. However, what you're arguing for- whether or not it's FUN- is what's odd. That's no different from me vehemently defending, "Chocolate tastes disgusting!" While that might be true for me- it's not, this is just an example- that doesn't hold true for everyone, so it would be quite silly of me to try and defend it as if it's a fact, and not an opinion.
"Now every server I join has been taken over by people abusing x-ray texture packs."
Explain to me in detail how these people have "taken over servers," how this affected your gaming experience, and how you have absolute proof that not only were these people using x-ray texture packs, but that the texture packs played a major role in helping them "take over a server."
"If people just wanted to find all the resources and build amazing things they can do that. But save it for single player."
To myself and others, it's more fun an experience to work on large projects with friends and to explore a world together, rather than working alone. Again, what we're arguing about here is a matter of opinion. We're using our time no more wisely than if we wanted to shout at each other about what color we think the sky should be.
Very nearly the rest of your paragraph is fully addressed by the, "You're choosing to self-impose this "unfairness" on yourself; thus, you have no one to blame but yourself" portion of the F.A.Q. For the parts that aren't,
"Even if the thrill of resource gathering wears of it is still part of the game."
Only if you choose for it to be. :smile.gif: My texture packs introduce freedom where once there was restraint though, admittedly, it doesn't outright give them what they need. It just makes that easier for them.
"If people don't like that then they can stop playing."
By that same logic, if you're tired of people using x-ray texture packs, you can stop playing. :3
"Charcoal which you can make torches without having to find coal. Still x-ray texture packs still isn't in the game. Why? For the exact reason I am arguing. He does not want this in his game. Simple as that."
That's no different from arguing in July of last year, "Notch has never added any sort of hell-like area, one which could, perhaps, be called "The Nether!" Therefore, he doesn't want one in-game!" You said it yourself: you're not a wizard. So, how do you know what he does and does not want? Now, let me bring up another point in conjunction with this one: I really don't think that this argument is too unreasonable. There's a realistic chance that you're absolutely right about this. This is where my next point comes in: there are many other things Notch probably didn't want to be implemented in-game. Runecraft, Craftbook, mods which allow players to build vehicles of sorts, mods which allow players to craft new and exciting types of arrows, mods which allow players to have 8v8 battles using guns, smoke grenades, parachutes, and more. But all of these things, and more, exist in-game thanks to people like me who are willing to take the time to make them for everyone- even you! And on that note: you're welcome. ;D
If you'd like to reply again, if you don't have any new points to bring up, all that's left is explaining what you meant by, "People, (Presumably ones who aren't moderators or administrators of the server in question), have taken over a server using x-ray texture packs." You're going to have to explain that one to me.
But, aside from that, all you're arguing about are things that are a matter of opinion. This isn't a very logical use of our time. For example, right now, I need to test out twelve sound files to see if I've successfully introduced custom sound clips to my version of Minecraft. If so, I'll need to get to work on creating sound packs for players to use. That said, are any of the arguments you're, possibly, about to make only going to be in defense of something that's a matter of opinion? Are you going to waste both of our time expressing why you're concerned about something that you feel is wrong, while many more people feel that it's right? If so, I must respectfully request that you save us both some time and only argue the facts, here. Thank you.
I like how MORE then half the OP is just polite answers to common questions/ statements.
I personally wouldn't use stuff like this, cause I love the thrill of finding stuff and nearly crapping my pants as I dig a hole in my ceiling letting the lava pour out and stuff. I can see the advantage of this though :smile.gif:
Im going to go ahead and say 'GOOD JOB' for dealing with the *cough* excuse me- idiots *cough* who are simply attacking you. And I mean it! I would of simply said something like... "f you!"
And to the complainers who are saying it's ruining their multiplayer experience:
If she(he?) didn't do it, im sure they would figure out how to make blocks transparent. Screw it! I can do it too!( not saying yours was done with little effort ><) So guys, give it a break. It's not like your opinions actually are gonna change anything.
If they don't predict that that will ever be an issue for them and it ends up becoming one, then, yes, because in your example, it became one. If, in another example, it doesn't become an issue for them, then nope.
To some, that's going too far, whereas playing Minecraft while using an x-ray texture pack, to them, isn't nearly as game-breaking an experience as is flying around with an infinite supply of every block and item at their disposal.
Because some people don't see it as spoiling other peoples' fun when it literally has no direct effect on anyone but the person using it. I, personally, enjoy going out of my way to help others on SMP servers with such things as these, because it's always worth hearing that "thanks :)" or seeing that relief as they dig around a tunnel which had a creeper in it that they couldn't see.
Also, seeing as how this pack is publicly available, that's no different from you choosing to use an iron pickaxe when you have a ready supply of diamond in a chest of yours, then voicing how unfair it is that other people you're playing with are choosing to use diamond pickaxes. It's your choice to self-impose that unfairness, which, in my opinion, isn't unfair in the slightest since, again, anyone can use it/them. As it's your choice not to use it/them, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Most of which can be read in the first post at the top of the thread.
Sorry if any of this came off as too direct or harsh, I'm too sleepy at the moment to think of a more polite way to phrase all of this. Goodnight.
Oh, and I'd just like to mention that I actually like the bright, cartoony look of the pack. So don't lose too much sleep over rushing out improvements! :tongue.gif:
@GeekRichieUK - Personally I find the x-ray pack to be not nearly as game breaking as you suggest it is. It doesn't mine blocks for you, it doesn't secure dungeons or make you invulnerable to damage. And like many have stated before in this thread, it only shows ores that are already exposed in natural caves. The only thing I could see breaking the game for some people would be the ability to safely scout a cave for enemies (which, being a nervous cave explorer, is actually what makes this pack make the game playable for me).
It really all comes down to how you choose to use the pack and play the game itself. You can always add or take away challenges to make the game more enjoyable for yourself. While some people might want to have to fight monsters to collect the items they drop, others might prefer just building a mob trap so that they can easily have and use the items. The suggestion of regulating modifications to the game like this one seems all too similar to someone, for example, asking to remove portals or minecarts from the game because they make travel too fast and safe. If someone felt that way,it's as simple as not using aforementioned methods of travel. That's one of the great things about Minecraft and the many mods for it, there are very limited restrictions on how you can choose to play the game. :smile.gif:
Too late! Besides, it was a damn fine suggestion, best one I can remember receiving. :3
Mikey - Enjoy!
Thank you! :biggrin.gif:
<--- Or him. D:
But really, this is just ruining the game. Too many people are abusing these texture packs. If you had any care for Minecraft and it's developers you would give up this tirade. I understand maybe some people use these texture packs reasonably but most of the people do not. A lot of multiplayer servers are ruined by resources being taken. Peoples chests cannot be hidden. All the resources are taken very quickly from a map allowing people using these texture packs to cheat their way to the top. I realize that you can do whatever you want and this isn't against minecraft rules but I don't see a point in even having these. For singleplayer use is great but you should make it so it is unusable for multiplayer.
Minecraft was created so you could tunnel your way around and find resources. If he wanted people to just be able to see lava, monsters and any hazards he would have put some sort of x-ray function into the game. Obviosuly he does not want this in his game. For these reasons x-ray texture packs should be banned from multiplayer. Good work, just not for the right reasons :tongue.gif:
Evion - Explain to me in detail how it ruins the game; I'm interested in hearing why you think that. Many people have said that, very few have offered explanations- of the explanations I've been provided with, I've made compelling counterarguments against all of them which resulted in the person in question being unable to provide any counterargument to mine.
Based on the number of people who've posted here and messaged me, thanking me for providing this service for them, I daresay it's a more caring thing for me to put my best effort into making these packs for the community.
Too many resources are being taken, and there's not enough for you? Good news! The game can generate maps eight times the size of the Earth, with each chunk spawned having its own, valuable resources. You'll be fine, I promise. :smile.gif:
If you're playing on a server that chooses not to install a chest-securing plugin such as Lightweight Chest Protection, Chastity Chest, Chest Protect, or any of the other chest protecting plugins out there, then you should be prepared for untrustworthy people to steal from you. While my texture pack would aid a dishonest player in finding chests if yours are hidden, I can't accept all the blame here when you're choosing not to recommend chest-protecting plugins to the owner, or, if you have, choosing to continue to play on that server.
That's exactly it- you don't see the point in having these. You can see a use for it in single player, but you don't like it in multiplayer. I've met people who felt the opposite way; they thought it was great for multiplayer, but didn't see the point of using it in single player. Likewise, there are people who've enjoyed using it for both multiplayer as well as single player, and there will always be those who disapprove of it totally. What matters here is how you feel about it. Since I feel I'm sharing something helpful with the community more than I feel that it's something that hurts people, I can take pride in the fact that I made these for you people. I understand that not all of you will feel the same way. But, unless you're going to provide me with reason after reason after reason that I cannot come up with a logical counterpoint to, then my views won't change, and I'll keep doing what I think is right to help as many people as I can. Making x-ray texture packs, among other things.
Tying in with the above, saying that "Minecraft was created so [blank]" isn't very different from saying, "The meaning of life is [blank]." It's a matter of opinion, something that can vary wildly from person to person, yet still be 100% true for everyone. While you believe that Minecraft was created so you could tunnel your way around and find resources, some people believe that Minecraft was made as a game, one which was meant to be as entertaining as possible. To some of these people, the thrill of resource gathering eventually wears off, and they grow tired of exploring caves or setting up strip mines, relying on blind luck to find the materials they need to achieve their goals. That's where I come in: to help level the playing field a bit, and help them have more fun with a game before they stop enjoying it altogether. :smile.gif: To me, that's good work, and it's for the right reasons. I'll do my best to understand that you feel that helping others is a bad thing.
It's not possible to make it work for single player, but not multiplayer, without editing lines of code, and that's not something I'm into.
I did not know that you know what Notch does and does not want in the game. I now realize that you are a wizard, and I apologize for speaking such heresy against you.
By that same logic, I'm ashamed that you're taking the CRAFTing aspects of the game so lightly, and putting so much emphasis on the mining aspects of the game. ... But, really, let's be serious. You don't play Killing Floor to violently assault the ground. While the title of a game can be used to give the end user an idea of what they're in for, using the title of the game itself as a defense for an argument is just plain silly. Review the aforementioned Killing Floor example for more insight.
"With this texture pack all you do is hit invisible blocks chasing some Blue block to reach all of the diamonds in the whole area."
First, that's a gross oversimplification, and completely false. What you're referring to are clientside modifications to how the game renders blocks; mods like X-Ray 8.0 are what you're thinking of. I couldn't make my texture pack reveal ALL the diamonds in an area if I wanted to- without modifying lines of code- and believe me, I want to. That aside, the other examples- avoiding creepers and lava- are 100% valid. My texture packs can help you do just that. However, what you're arguing for- whether or not it's FUN- is what's odd. That's no different from me vehemently defending, "Chocolate tastes disgusting!" While that might be true for me- it's not, this is just an example- that doesn't hold true for everyone, so it would be quite silly of me to try and defend it as if it's a fact, and not an opinion.
"Now every server I join has been taken over by people abusing x-ray texture packs."
Explain to me in detail how these people have "taken over servers," how this affected your gaming experience, and how you have absolute proof that not only were these people using x-ray texture packs, but that the texture packs played a major role in helping them "take over a server."
"If people just wanted to find all the resources and build amazing things they can do that. But save it for single player."
To myself and others, it's more fun an experience to work on large projects with friends and to explore a world together, rather than working alone. Again, what we're arguing about here is a matter of opinion. We're using our time no more wisely than if we wanted to shout at each other about what color we think the sky should be.
Very nearly the rest of your paragraph is fully addressed by the, "You're choosing to self-impose this "unfairness" on yourself; thus, you have no one to blame but yourself" portion of the F.A.Q. For the parts that aren't,
"Even if the thrill of resource gathering wears of it is still part of the game."
Only if you choose for it to be. :smile.gif: My texture packs introduce freedom where once there was restraint though, admittedly, it doesn't outright give them what they need. It just makes that easier for them.
"If people don't like that then they can stop playing."
By that same logic, if you're tired of people using x-ray texture packs, you can stop playing. :3
"Charcoal which you can make torches without having to find coal. Still x-ray texture packs still isn't in the game. Why? For the exact reason I am arguing. He does not want this in his game. Simple as that."
That's no different from arguing in July of last year, "Notch has never added any sort of hell-like area, one which could, perhaps, be called "The Nether!" Therefore, he doesn't want one in-game!" You said it yourself: you're not a wizard. So, how do you know what he does and does not want? Now, let me bring up another point in conjunction with this one: I really don't think that this argument is too unreasonable. There's a realistic chance that you're absolutely right about this. This is where my next point comes in: there are many other things Notch probably didn't want to be implemented in-game. Runecraft, Craftbook, mods which allow players to build vehicles of sorts, mods which allow players to craft new and exciting types of arrows, mods which allow players to have 8v8 battles using guns, smoke grenades, parachutes, and more. But all of these things, and more, exist in-game thanks to people like me who are willing to take the time to make them for everyone- even you! And on that note: you're welcome. ;D
If you'd like to reply again, if you don't have any new points to bring up, all that's left is explaining what you meant by, "People, (Presumably ones who aren't moderators or administrators of the server in question), have taken over a server using x-ray texture packs." You're going to have to explain that one to me.
But, aside from that, all you're arguing about are things that are a matter of opinion. This isn't a very logical use of our time. For example, right now, I need to test out twelve sound files to see if I've successfully introduced custom sound clips to my version of Minecraft. If so, I'll need to get to work on creating sound packs for players to use. That said, are any of the arguments you're, possibly, about to make only going to be in defense of something that's a matter of opinion? Are you going to waste both of our time expressing why you're concerned about something that you feel is wrong, while many more people feel that it's right? If so, I must respectfully request that you save us both some time and only argue the facts, here. Thank you.
I personally wouldn't use stuff like this, cause I love the thrill of finding stuff and nearly crapping my pants as I dig a hole in my ceiling letting the lava pour out and stuff. I can see the advantage of this though :smile.gif:
Im going to go ahead and say 'GOOD JOB' for dealing with the *cough* excuse me- idiots *cough* who are simply attacking you. And I mean it! I would of simply said something like... "f you!"
And to the complainers who are saying it's ruining their multiplayer experience:
If she(he?) didn't do it, im sure they would figure out how to make blocks transparent. Screw it! I can do it too!( not saying yours was done with little effort ><) So guys, give it a break. It's not like your opinions actually are gonna change anything.
And no-problem, thank you btw for the pack.
ha.
...
How's the pack/How're the packs? :3