And there is a huge problem with Forge now. It's called Lack of Documentation. Currently the only way to get into coding if you don't have a knack for reading source and understanding java deeper than is required to actually mod is to find tutorials that explain what you need to do to get started. Not just get started with your development setup, but to get started with your base interface classes and base actual useable objects in Minecraft. Forge stopped having documentation back in 1.7.2 releases. Lex Manos said the Documentation was taking up 80% of the build and therefore removed it. So unless someone or a group of someones is willing to create a true, vibrant and constantly update source of information to help new and experienced coders both to have access to documentation on Forge and or to help in a timely manner with problems one might have ...
Well, in as much as I would like to support your stance and at one time in my life I did, I no longer do due in part to wisdom.
And yes I saw where you were getting on the other guy in almost this exact same way, except that you are unwilling to accept a certain level of abstraction on the part of newbie coder.
Now, let me ask you something. Let's not bother with the fact that you might know personally the answer to it. Instead, where on the Internet publically where one might find all of the details that explain the float getCelestialAngle(long, float) function provided in the worldprovider.class? All the comment says it's computed against time. However, there is no explanation what to stick into the float parameter or the long parameter. You might argue that the long parameter is where in game time goes formatted as long value because in the code they use modulo 20L on it. But still. Without proper documentation or decent repository of which the Minecraft Forge Wiki is not you are stuck.
Now all this said, I'm sure mcmodcrafter won't provide this level of functionality, but if the author is right, if one were to develop a plugin for it that allowed the coder to go this deep, well, all I can say is more kudos!
Tutorials are more than enough to get a newbie started with an API and let them get to the point where they can start experimenting with the API and learn what it allows that the tutorials didn't understand, so documentation is honestly not that big of a deal when there's plenty of tutorials out that explain how to do the very things mod generators allow you to do, and more (yes, documentation is a huge downfall of Forge, but for the more basic concepts within Forge they are not needed as there is external documentation by way of guides, tutorials and code breakdowns; a blog by the name of GreyMinecraftCoder explains the more detailed aspects of both Minecraft and Forge in a way that tutorials and documentation doesn't).
I am willing to accept abstraction, in fact I applaud it when it's done right. Buttons and text fields is not implementing abstraction right at all, it abstracts modding too much and makes it too easy. This opens the door for low quality mods and such, but furthermore, it makes the developer assume modding IS that simple and it teaches them absolutely zilch about modding, it's honestly useless in the grand scheme of things, it's a waste of time. As I've said, if the author of MCModCrafter perhaps implemented a completely different abstraction interface for developers (I suggested maybe a "puzzle-piece" programming language; this simplifies it down enough to not scare off beginners while still maintaining a usefulness in the grand scheme of things (it still employs and teaches the 3 fundamental concepts of programming (condition, iteration, sequence))) then it'd not only be much better in terms of a teaching aid for beginners in that it's not a waste of time that teaches nothing and over-simplifies the process of creating mods, but it'd also stand out from the "community" of mod generators and IMO would get more traffic and users.
As to your question, my answer is this; why would you need it if you're moving from a mod generator to a manually-written mod? There are plenty of dimension tutorials out there, so dimensions are covered, you don't need that method in terms of other forms of logic that are block-or-item-bound, and for entity-bound logic, you can use this technique. There's a reason why Forge allows you to grab a decompiled source package for vanilla Minecraft, if you're stuck and don't know how to do something or what something is, look around in the source code to see what it does. If you find out what it does, why not make a forum post explaining what it does so other developers can just look up the method online and instantly start reading up on it, rather than picking the source code apart looking for method calls to see what the parameter(s) are.
At the end of the day, my argument is this; mod generators with an acceptable level of abstraction provide a benefit to newbies in writing mods, however button-based generators over-abstract the process of development to the point where it's redundant, useless and a waste of time and space to download, install and use the generators. Generators teach absolutely nothing about mod development, and introduce bad assumptions such as modding is as simple as pressing a button (which leads to simple errors that developers make, and thus leads to developers who don't know how to fix such errors, panic and yell on forums for help, then sometimes yell at users trying to help them because they don't understand what's being said to them). And it isn't changing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
MCModMaker is a smart mod making tool. This program is made to be easy to use, and to generate smart and efficient code.
Starting a project is easy and just takes the click of a button. MCModMaker will download MinecraftForge and setup the modding environment all for you. After you have set up your workspace, creating mods is easy through the use of the built in plugin system.
This plugin system allows developers to create their own types of mods with MCModMaker. There are several ways to make plugins for MCModMaker including external DLL files that allow developers to create very intuitive and complicated plugins for my mod maker.
Example Video (sorry that it is very poorly done)
_
Wow, I just watched your video and really like what you have done so far. By "don't have enough resources" what do you mean exactly? What do you need a server?
Personally, I'd like to see an option that when you choose to edit something that you have created with a content stepper that a text window comes up that allows you to see the generated code but at the same time gives you the ability to modify said code. Also, should you implement that feature, it should be a requirement of Content Stepping development that everything inject comments heavily. That way newbie coders can learn faster. Perhaps an option to turn off "newbie" mode too so that comments don't get injected.
From what I can see looks like you made a shell for the standard gradle, meaning I could goto said directory and manage things myself. Also, does that mean I could eclipse into said directory and be able to see and further modify everything this generated and conversely if I did do all that, if I go back in to your app will detect all those changes and not overwrite them, ie include them?
Also, do you have a release at all for this? I personally don't mind if it is Alpha. From what I see right now it would save me the hassle building lots of boring items that a mod will need thus allowing me to work on the items that need intense attention.
Tutorials are more than enough to get a newbie started with an API and let them get to the point where they can start experimenting with the API and learn what it allows that the tutorials didn't understand, so documentation is honestly not that big of a deal when there's plenty of tutorials out that explain how to do the very things mod generators allow you to do, and more (yes, documentation is a huge downfall of Forge, but for the more basic concepts within Forge they are not needed as there is external documentation by way of guides, tutorials and code breakdowns; a blog by the name of GreyMinecraftCoder explains the more detailed aspects of both Minecraft and Forge in a way that tutorials and documentation doesn't).
I am willing to accept abstraction, in fact I applaud it when it's done right. Buttons and text fields is not implementing abstraction right at all, it abstracts modding too much and makes it too easy. This opens the door for low quality mods and such, but furthermore, it makes the developer assume modding IS that simple and it teaches them absolutely zilch about modding, it's honestly useless in the grand scheme of things, it's a waste of time. As I've said, if the author of MCModCrafter perhaps implemented a completely different abstraction interface for developers (I suggested maybe a "puzzle-piece" programming language; this simplifies it down enough to not scare off beginners while still maintaining a usefulness in the grand scheme of things (it still employs and teaches the 3 fundamental concepts of programming (condition, iteration, sequence))) then it'd not only be much better in terms of a teaching aid for beginners in that it's not a waste of time that teaches nothing and over-simplifies the process of creating mods, but it'd also stand out from the "community" of mod generators and IMO would get more traffic and users.
As to your question, my answer is this; why would you need it if you're moving from a mod generator to a manually-written mod? There are plenty of dimension tutorials out there, so dimensions are covered, you don't need that method in terms of other forms of logic that are block-or-item-bound, and for entity-bound logic, you can use this technique. There's a reason why Forge allows you to grab a decompiled source package for vanilla Minecraft, if you're stuck and don't know how to do something or what something is, look around in the source code to see what it does. If you find out what it does, why not make a forum post explaining what it does so other developers can just look up the method online and instantly start reading up on it, rather than picking the source code apart looking for method calls to see what the parameter(s) are.
At the end of the day, my argument is this; mod generators with an acceptable level of abstraction provide a benefit to newbies in writing mods, however button-based generators over-abstract the process of development to the point where it's redundant, useless and a waste of time and space to download, install and use the generators. Generators teach absolutely nothing about mod development, and introduce bad assumptions such as modding is as simple as pressing a button (which leads to simple errors that developers make, and thus leads to developers who don't know how to fix such errors, panic and yell on forums for help, then sometimes yell at users trying to help them because they don't understand what's being said to them). And it isn't changing.
After watching his video, it feels like that you did not watch his video, as he mentioned that this app is going to be more than just pushing buttons. Right now it is pushing buttons but it is version 0.0.1 according to the video, and also a proof of concept piece. Edmeister777 in my opinion has very good intentions and with a bit nudging and professional courtesy his app can become a great asset to the Forge community.
The only drawback I can see to this is that knowing someday in the future an utter noob will sit down and load this app and have it his or her disposal 1000's of plugins to allow them to create a mod that rivals the likes of Thaumcraft and Tinker's Construct, and because of this app in that future time will be able to keep up with the change Forge landscapes (builds) without too much fuss. And that is only a drawback in that the seasoned programmer who grew up using a flip phone with a brick-sized battery pack will feel jaded because the newer generation gets to build on his back whether he likes it or not and has an easier time of things than he or she did.
Further, despite the availability of tools, knowledge and matrices of learning, very few ever aspire to become great, a slight bit more choose mediocre and great many choose to not care or become anything memorable.
Compared to the other modMakers out there, this one has the best potential.
After watching his video, it feels like that you did not watch his video, as he mentioned that this app is going to be more than just pushing buttons. Right now it is pushing buttons but it is version 0.0.1 according to the video, and also a proof of concept piece. Edmeister777 in my opinion has very good intentions and with a bit nudging and professional courtesy his app can become a great asset to the Forge community.
The only drawback I can see to this is that knowing someday in the future an utter noob will sit down and load this app and have it his or her disposal 1000's of plugins to allow them to create a mod that rivals the likes of Thaumcraft and Tinker's Construct, and because of this app in that future time will be able to keep up with the change Forge landscapes (builds) without too much fuss. And that is only a drawback in that the seasoned programmer who grew up using a flip phone with a brick-sized battery pack will feel jaded because the newer generation gets to build on his back whether he likes it or not and has an easier time of things than he or she did.
Further, despite the availability of tools, knowledge and matrices of learning, very few ever aspire to become great, a slight bit more choose mediocre and great many choose to not care or become anything memorable.
Compared to the other modMakers out there, this one has the best potential.
You haven't read the first message I posted did you? I commented that this has potential and that I do hope it evolves to be a generator that doesn't use button;
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
You haven't read the first message I posted did you? I commented that this has potential and that I do hope it evolves to be a generator that doesn't use button;
Yeah, I didn't read that one. It just felt like you didn't the way you are raking this poor guy over the coals.
Yeah, I didn't read that one. It just felt like you didn't the way you are raking this poor guy over the coals.
I'm not, if I was I apologise. My intention was to try and advise him to make his generator stand out and make it easier for beginners in a way that doesn't make it too easy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
I'm not, if I was I apologise. My intention was to try and advise him to make his generator stand out and make it easier for beginners in a way that doesn't make it too easy.
as far as beginners go, I can see a real need for this program. When it comes to basic mod setup I am finding that aspect very mundane and boorish. There is not much real logic or anything control structuring about it. Almost files like you are setting up config files. Anything that would help to manage that and make that part of it easier to manage would be a great boon.
I like your idea about the puzzle pieces. Or at least have the option to open a text editor to add more complex code as needed would be awesome too!
as far as beginners go, I can see a real need for this program. When it comes to basic mod setup I am finding that aspect very mundane and boorish. There is not much real logic or anything control structuring about it. Almost files like you are setting up config files. Anything that would help to manage that and make that part of it easier to manage would be a great boon.
I like your idea about the puzzle pieces. Or at least have the option to open a text editor to add more complex code as needed would be awesome too!
Can I just ask, how is writing code out more boring and mundane than pressing buttons? There's a ton of control and logic in it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
The thing is, working with a system that does some of the work for you allows you to focus on gameplay mechanics that you want to add and iterate quickly. If you partner it with the ability to work directly on code as well, then you have a versatile toolbox for prototyping and polishing mods.
The thing is, working with a system that does some of the work for you allows you to focus on gameplay mechanics that you want to add and iterate quickly. If you partner it with the ability to work directly on code as well, then you have a versatile toolbox for prototyping and polishing mods.
You can do this with any major IDE for Java, most IDEs have a templating feature which allows you to write code out, save it as a template then create an entire class using said template. Along with creating your own library to have multiple projects implement the same code from the same place.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
Well, for many people it's boring to spend a lot of time to learn Java in order to create simple mods. If you know something better, can't you make it yourself?
And this is where it gets more serious, honestly if you think programming is boring, you really shouldn't be modding. No matter what, you will need to incorporate programming and learn it. Writing it yourself is self-explanatory, using a generator still requires programming concepts for more advanced things, having someone else write it for you can also require some level of programming knowledge to understand if and why certain things are and are not possible within an allocated time-frame. On that note, if you have mod ideas and don't want to program, I'd suggest perhaps pitching the idea to other developers, or trying to get some developers onboard and start a team.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
Tutorials are more than enough to get a newbie started with an API and let them get to the point where they can start experimenting with the API and learn what it allows that the tutorials didn't understand, so documentation is honestly not that big of a deal when there's plenty of tutorials out that explain how to do the very things mod generators allow you to do, and more (yes, documentation is a huge downfall of Forge, but for the more basic concepts within Forge they are not needed as there is external documentation by way of guides, tutorials and code breakdowns; a blog by the name of GreyMinecraftCoder explains the more detailed aspects of both Minecraft and Forge in a way that tutorials and documentation doesn't).
I am willing to accept abstraction, in fact I applaud it when it's done right. Buttons and text fields is not implementing abstraction right at all, it abstracts modding too much and makes it too easy. This opens the door for low quality mods and such, but furthermore, it makes the developer assume modding IS that simple and it teaches them absolutely zilch about modding, it's honestly useless in the grand scheme of things, it's a waste of time. As I've said, if the author of MCModCrafter perhaps implemented a completely different abstraction interface for developers (I suggested maybe a "puzzle-piece" programming language; this simplifies it down enough to not scare off beginners while still maintaining a usefulness in the grand scheme of things (it still employs and teaches the 3 fundamental concepts of programming (condition, iteration, sequence))) then it'd not only be much better in terms of a teaching aid for beginners in that it's not a waste of time that teaches nothing and over-simplifies the process of creating mods, but it'd also stand out from the "community" of mod generators and IMO would get more traffic and users.
As to your question, my answer is this; why would you need it if you're moving from a mod generator to a manually-written mod? There are plenty of dimension tutorials out there, so dimensions are covered, you don't need that method in terms of other forms of logic that are block-or-item-bound, and for entity-bound logic, you can use this technique. There's a reason why Forge allows you to grab a decompiled source package for vanilla Minecraft, if you're stuck and don't know how to do something or what something is, look around in the source code to see what it does. If you find out what it does, why not make a forum post explaining what it does so other developers can just look up the method online and instantly start reading up on it, rather than picking the source code apart looking for method calls to see what the parameter(s) are.
At the end of the day, my argument is this; mod generators with an acceptable level of abstraction provide a benefit to newbies in writing mods, however button-based generators over-abstract the process of development to the point where it's redundant, useless and a waste of time and space to download, install and use the generators. Generators teach absolutely nothing about mod development, and introduce bad assumptions such as modding is as simple as pressing a button (which leads to simple errors that developers make, and thus leads to developers who don't know how to fix such errors, panic and yell on forums for help, then sometimes yell at users trying to help them because they don't understand what's being said to them). And it isn't changing.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
Wow, I just watched your video and really like what you have done so far. By "don't have enough resources" what do you mean exactly? What do you need a server?
Personally, I'd like to see an option that when you choose to edit something that you have created with a content stepper that a text window comes up that allows you to see the generated code but at the same time gives you the ability to modify said code. Also, should you implement that feature, it should be a requirement of Content Stepping development that everything inject comments heavily. That way newbie coders can learn faster. Perhaps an option to turn off "newbie" mode too so that comments don't get injected.
From what I can see looks like you made a shell for the standard gradle, meaning I could goto said directory and manage things myself. Also, does that mean I could eclipse into said directory and be able to see and further modify everything this generated and conversely if I did do all that, if I go back in to your app will detect all those changes and not overwrite them, ie include them?
Also, do you have a release at all for this? I personally don't mind if it is Alpha. From what I see right now it would save me the hassle building lots of boring items that a mod will need thus allowing me to work on the items that need intense attention.
After watching his video, it feels like that you did not watch his video, as he mentioned that this app is going to be more than just pushing buttons. Right now it is pushing buttons but it is version 0.0.1 according to the video, and also a proof of concept piece. Edmeister777 in my opinion has very good intentions and with a bit nudging and professional courtesy his app can become a great asset to the Forge community.
The only drawback I can see to this is that knowing someday in the future an utter noob will sit down and load this app and have it his or her disposal 1000's of plugins to allow them to create a mod that rivals the likes of Thaumcraft and Tinker's Construct, and because of this app in that future time will be able to keep up with the change Forge landscapes (builds) without too much fuss. And that is only a drawback in that the seasoned programmer who grew up using a flip phone with a brick-sized battery pack will feel jaded because the newer generation gets to build on his back whether he likes it or not and has an easier time of things than he or she did.
Further, despite the availability of tools, knowledge and matrices of learning, very few ever aspire to become great, a slight bit more choose mediocre and great many choose to not care or become anything memorable.
Compared to the other modMakers out there, this one has the best potential.
You haven't read the first message I posted did you? I commented that this has potential and that I do hope it evolves to be a generator that doesn't use button;
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
Yeah, I didn't read that one. It just felt like you didn't the way you are raking this poor guy over the coals.
I'm not, if I was I apologise. My intention was to try and advise him to make his generator stand out and make it easier for beginners in a way that doesn't make it too easy.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
as far as beginners go, I can see a real need for this program. When it comes to basic mod setup I am finding that aspect very mundane and boorish. There is not much real logic or anything control structuring about it. Almost files like you are setting up config files. Anything that would help to manage that and make that part of it easier to manage would be a great boon.
I like your idea about the puzzle pieces. Or at least have the option to open a text editor to add more complex code as needed would be awesome too!
Can I just ask, how is writing code out more boring and mundane than pressing buttons? There's a ton of control and logic in it.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
The thing is, working with a system that does some of the work for you allows you to focus on gameplay mechanics that you want to add and iterate quickly. If you partner it with the ability to work directly on code as well, then you have a versatile toolbox for prototyping and polishing mods.
You can do this with any major IDE for Java, most IDEs have a templating feature which allows you to write code out, save it as a template then create an entire class using said template. Along with creating your own library to have multiple projects implement the same code from the same place.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
And this is where it gets more serious, honestly if you think programming is boring, you really shouldn't be modding. No matter what, you will need to incorporate programming and learn it. Writing it yourself is self-explanatory, using a generator still requires programming concepts for more advanced things, having someone else write it for you can also require some level of programming knowledge to understand if and why certain things are and are not possible within an allocated time-frame. On that note, if you have mod ideas and don't want to program, I'd suggest perhaps pitching the idea to other developers, or trying to get some developers onboard and start a team.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
How Many Time To Download This?:farming247: